It's Time to Boycott Arizona

[dreadgeek]

Originally Posted by DomnNC

The point is that the people who reside in Arizona who posted in this thread have said, more than once, they voted and they DID NOT vote for her or her policies and they feel like they are still being slammed and grouped in with those who DID vote for her by all the "blanket" statements being made about people who reside in Arizona as a whole.

Except people keep bending over backwards to make it clear that they aren't saying that the people HERE believe the law to be just. Now, I am curious if a boycott and/or mass exodus of Hispanics is NOT the answer, what is? Let's grant, for the moment, that a boycott isn't the way to deal with this? What then? Obviously we know how this turns out at the ballot box--the backers, proponent and apologists for this law win. So if money continues to pour into Arizona then there is no economic consequence to be paid for this law. So politicians who backed the law pay no political price and the state, as a whole, pays no economic price. At that point what is there to discourage Arizona from passing an even more draconian law?

That pretty much leaves the mass exodus of Hispanics which I still hold would probably be the *most* effective form of protest. At first, one might witness the spectacle of Arizonans singing "na na na, na na na, hey hey hey, good-bye" and that would probably go through the wave. After that, well, it starts to have an economic effect. Suddenly there are a lot fewer people doing everything from washing dishes to teaching classes. As I said yesterday, when they leave their dollars go with them. Tax revenues decline. The tourism and hospitality sectors of the economy will be hit particularly hard as they lose cheap labor.

I get it that the Arizonans don't want any of these things to happen to their state. I fully understand that. However, it makes no sense to suggest that those either targeted by this law or horrified by it simply shrug our collective shoulders in order to avoid hurting someone's feelings.

They registered their protest with their vote as you just said but are still being held accountable for every other Arizonians vote.

No, they are not. They are choosing to take a very justified critique of this law and the Arizonan politics that birthed it in a personal fashion. I'll try--again--to explain the distinction.

"In 1940, America was a fundamentally racist country."

Now, according to the logic being deployed here, I have just claimed that every single American living in the borders of this country in December 1940 was a racist. I have insulted--personally--every single American living at that time. Except I haven't. My parents were alive in 1940, both of them turned 18 that year. They were the *targets* of racism but they were not, themselves, racism. Does that mean that America wasn't a fundamentally racist country? No, the statement still stands because the *laws* of America mandated segregation in public accommodation, the military, etc. One can make the observation that America was a racist nation in 1940 and *still* not be saying something that any given person alive in 1940 was a racist. Likewise, one can say that Arizona has passed a law that is an invitation to racial profiling without saying that any given Arizonan is in favor of racial profiling.

Just because they believe that a boycott is not the answer for their state does not make them bad people or complicit in what has happened by other peoples votes.

I am going to go out on a limb and suggest that the good people of the Birmingham Bus Company did not think that the Birmingham Bus Boycott was the answer for the problem of blacks sitting in the back of the bus. I'm going to also suggest that the good people of the Woolworth's company didn't think that a boycott of the Woolworth's lunch counter was the right way to deal with that manifestation of segregation. The targets of a boycott NEVER think that it's a good idea--that's kind of the whole point of a boycott is to motivate people to change the conditions that precipitate the boycott.

However, I'm all ears. If a boycott isn't the answer and a mass exodus of Hispanics isn't the answer, what is?

Btw, I am a registered voter and I do vote in every election. You can't take a gun to other complacent voters heads and make them go to the polls. I agree that a lot of voters need a swift kick in the ass to get to the polls. There could have been a different outcome in Arizona if every registered voter did go to the polls but it is not our place to heap condemnation and group blame upon those that in fact did go vote and vote against the current administration there thereby registering their protest.

So at what point--if any--are people responsible for what happens in their locality? To use another (fairly) recent example; there used to be a country called Yugoslavia. When the Soviet empire dissolved, Yugoslavia broke up. What followed was, by even the most strict definition, a genocide of Bosnian Muslims and Croats by Serbs. I'll spare the gory details but suffice to say that in just one city, Sarajevo, which was under siege for over a year, atrocities took place daily. Serbs who were NOT involved, who wore no uniform, knew of the atrocities and did nothing to stop them. Using current American zeitgeist logic, the only people who should feel even the most trivial pang of guilt are those who pulled the trigger.

Cheers
Aj

[apretty]

my expert opinion:

i lived there, i still own a house there and i still think boycotting the beautiful state of arizona is a great idea. though, moving away is probably safest if you present 'brown' in any way.

[DomnNC]

"I get it that the Arizonans don't want any of these things to happen to their state. I fully understand that. However, it makes no sense to suggest that those either targeted by this law or horrified by it simply shrug our collective shoulders in order to avoid hurting someone's feelings."

So am I to assume that since you are so horrified by it and any other person who is horrified by it that does NOT live in Arizona are going to leave the comfy confines of their homes where this isn't an issue, move to Arizona and start a grass roots movement to get Brewer and her cronies tossed from office in the next election?

We can all raise our collective voices and scream at the injustice of it from whatever state we live in, does it do any good? NO, because the people in Arizona were elected by the majority and they will be in office until they are ousted on their rear ends by the said same collective majority!

And no, the comments here have not been "bend over backwards" to ensure that the posters from Arizona have not made to feel like they are being targeted by these posts.
Cody stated he didn't vote for Brewer, some took exception to some of his terminology, Cody even stated he was half Native-American with blue eyes. Another poster implied with their post that he was lying about it. Did I see you as a moderator take that person to task, did another moderator step in and say, whoa wait a minute, that was a little unjust and unfair? NO that was not done, what was done was more criticism was hurled his way because of wording that he used even after he stated time and again that he wasn't a supporter of this policy, so much so to the point that he just disengaged altogether. What if he was a supporter, the amount of criticism heaped upon him lost him from the discussion when something could have been said to persuade him to change his vote at the poll in the next election was lost. That is never a good thing.
He mentioned "the look" and was taken to task for using those words, forgive me but isn't racial profiling all about "a look". If they look to be Hispanic, black, purple, yellow, green whathave you what racial profiling is all about? It was completely unnecessary as far as I'm concerned.

People seem to forget that during these economic hard times that some people cannot afford television, radios, newspapers, or treks into a nearby larger city where one may learn of political activism and what is going on in their own back yard. Not all people are as educated as you, as I, as the person to your left or to your right, that does not give us the right to take an air of superiority over any one when there is a discussion going on. And yes, that is the road this discussion is taking, making some feel less than when there is no need for that when they have stated they did NOT vote for these idiots and they refuse to have their feet held to the fire with the majority who did.

Please, keep the topic to the current situation, I'm fully aware of past atrocities of people before my time and your time. It just muddles, confuses and blurs the lines of the current situation.

So if those that are so indignant and horrified about the situation perhaps as I said you should pack up the comfy confines of your current home, move to Arizona and start a grass roots effort to oust the current political regime, however you should be prepared to move to the other 22 states who are NOW also considering adopting legislation similiar to Arizona's to deal with the influx of illegal immigrants.

I don't know what the answer is and I'm pretty sure you don't either, no one does, otherwise the situation would have already been corrected. I do know that bankrupting a state is not the answer, it only creates a whole host of other issues.

I've had my say about when now, all I did was happen upon the thread and was kinda taken aback by some of the commentary directed towards other members of this site and misinterpretation of a post.

[apretty]

wtf, mexicans didn't bankrupt the state.

and that was pretty much me blowing my entire load--i don't really have a lot of energy/extra time to argue over blatant racism (which you know, as i write that statement--sounds pretty fucking privileged of me to 'opt out' and i am owning that, this conversation makes me tired.)

[The_Lady_Snow]

There are NO green, purple, or pink people targeted by this heinous law.

I as a traveler in Az had to lie (left my purse in SD) about my status in this country. I used my tricks and made myself look white.

I get offend with good right when white folk describe POC with terms such as "that look"


If you are deflecting for Cody by saying he can't afford the TV he clearly haz interwebs! He could of read ALL THE FACTS posted in this thread


How one can live in denial I can't understand, wait I
can. White skin gives one privileges I'll never get

True story

[Corkey]

Did you know that other states are looking at SB1070 as a template for enacting this racist law? No? Well the state I live in is and so is Texas and New Jersey. It has nothing to do with the boarder being secure, it is racism pure and simple. So I will rail against it in AZ in PA in TX in NJ and any other state that even thinks this is a good idea. It isn't it is RACISM.

[Greyson]

Originally Posted by Corkey

Did you know that other states are looking at SB1070 as a template for enacting this racist law? No? Well the state I live in is and so is Texas and New Jersey. It has nothing to do with the boarder being secure, it is racism pure and simple. So I will rail against it in AZ in PA in TX in NJ and any other state that even thinks this is a good idea. It isn't it is RACISM.

Right now in California there is a petition being circulated state wide to gather enough signatures to put a California version of SB1070 on the ballot in the next election cycle.

[Novelafemme]

Originally Posted by Greyson

Right now in California there is a petition being circulated state wide to gather enough signature to put a California version of SB1070 on the ballot in the next election cycle.

What do you think the outcome will be, Grey?

[Greyson]

Originally Posted by Novelafemme

What do you think the outcome will be, Grey?

I think enough signatures will be collected to get it on the ballot. I don't think it will pass, but it will not be by a resounding landslide.

AJ does an excellent job in spelling it out succiently, IMO. Are we willing to give up some of our artificially low cost services and goods here in the USA?

Most of you know I am a Mexican American and I have lived in California since the age of two. This entire immigratrion thing is complex and much of it grounded in preconceived racist notions. On the other side of the coin is Mexico's long history of ignoring the basic needs of it's people. Of course this does not include their wealthy.

(Actually, the States is becoming more and more like this. Huge economic disparity between the working folks and the very rich.)

Back to California. Right now the State of California has an incoming Democratic Gov, Assembly and State Democrat majority, all state constitutional officers Democractic and two Democratic Federal Senators. I really do not hold out for much even with this. I think as the world moves forward we are creating a new paradigm. I just hope globally, nationally and locally, more will choose the high road as oppossed to greed and short sightedness.

[DomnNC]

These are the 22 states considering or drafting legislation similar to Arizona's.

Alabama, Arkansas, Colorado, Florida, Idaho, Indiana, Maryland, Michigan, Minnesota, Missouri, Nebraska, Nevada, New Jersey, North Carolina, Ohio, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, South Carolina, Tennessee, Texas and Utah.

Let me amend this as I was not deflecting for Cody but responding to numerous comments made about "ignorant voters":

People seem to forget that during these economic hard times that some people cannot afford television, radios, newspapers, INTERNET ACCESS, COMPUTERS, or treks into a nearby larger city where one may learn of political activism and what is going on in their own back yard.

[dreadgeek]

Originally Posted by Greyson

Right now in California there is a petition being circulated state wide to gather enough signature to put a California version of SB1070 on the ballot in the next election cycle.

The Republican Party is just *determined* to immolate itself in California aren't they? Don't they get it? I'm reminded--in the fractally strange way my mind works--of an old Frantics skit called Tai Kwan Leep. At one point the sensei, who has just given an obnoxious student Ed Gruberman a 'boot to the head', is challenged by another student and asks "have you learned nothing from the lesson of Ed Gruberman"?

In this instance, Ed Gruberman is the Republican party of California and the boot to the head is the results of the midterm elections.

Because the President and the Congress are Democratic the Republicans should have done well--it's what typically happens and despite all the breathless crowing about tidal waves and never before has any sitting President lost seats in a midterm, the fact is that what happened earlier this month was pretty much in line with what has generally happened--the party of the President loses seats. Except in California.

Governor? Went to a Dem. Senatorial race? Went to the Dem. Attorney General? Went to the Dem. House races? Largely won by Dems. Hell, the Democratic party picked up seats in the California Senate! Why? Because of the Hispanic vote. Hispanics turned out in droves and voted their self-interest. They did the math, realized where the GOP wanted to go, and voted for the Dem. Same thing happened in Nevada. Harry Reid should have lost and yes, Angle was a spectacularly bad candidate but he *still* should have lost. But she ran an anti-immigrant campaign and paid the price.

The GOP seems bound and determined to make themselves a rump party. It may not happen in 2012, it could certainly happen in 2016 and by 2020 if the GOP doesn't get it that racism doesn't pay they will learn it then.

Cheers
Aj

[Nat]

Originally Posted by Corkey

Did you know that other states are looking at SB1070 as a template for enacting this racist law? No? Well the state I live in is and so is Texas and New Jersey. It has nothing to do with the boarder being secure, it is racism pure and simple. So I will rail against it in AZ in PA in TX in NJ and any other state that even thinks this is a good idea. It isn't it is RACISM.

As a Texan I am very concerned about the spread of this crap which is one of many reasons it matters so much to me that Arizona feel the negative impact of this. If it is economically and politically rewarding, it will spread like wildfire through many more states.

[asphaltcowboi]

i have ban myself from porting in this thread.. my statements were not made clear enough for several and my abilty of speach does dont comepete.. please refain from using my name on this thread or assuming what i am or may /may not have or know. i do not know you nor you me.
thanks
cody

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

There are NO green, purple, or pink people targeted by this heinous law.

I as a traveler in Az had to lie (left my purse in SD) about my status in this country. I used my tricks and made myself look white.

I get offend with good right when white folk describe POC with terms such as "that look"


If you are deflecting for Cody by saying he can't afford the TV he clearly haz interwebs! He could of read ALL THE FACTS posted in this thread


How one can live in denial I can't understand, wait I
can. White skin gives one privileges I'll never get

True story

[The_Lady_Snow]

Originally Posted by cody

i have ban myself from porting in this thread.. my statements were not made clear enough for several and my abilty of speach does dont comepete.. please refain from using my name on this thread or assuming what i am or may /may not have or know. i do not know you nor you me.
thanks
cody

Um look Cody, why not call out DNC for using your name in his post? Hence my reply using your name.

As far as your "unclear" statements, this is what is odd to me, white folks can use the most colorful descriptors when it comes to POC and then brush it off as "we" misconstrued such adjectives.

So with that said, I did not assume, YOU chose to use "that look" I stand by it was not the best choice of adjectives to describe us, why? Cause it is fucking offensive, just as offensive as "wet back" "beaners" and my favorite everyone still uses no matter how many times we asked you don't

ILLEGAL.

I am not illegal, I did not come from another planet here I came from a land where MY ancestors ( I have direct bloodlines to Pancho Villa AND can prove it) roamed freely.

So please don't wag your finger at me for your name use, at least I did not use an offensive descriptor.

Thanks

[QueenofSmirks]

Originally Posted by dreadgeek

...That pretty much leaves the mass exodus of Hispanics which I still hold would probably be the *most* effective form of protest....

I'm actually reading post by post, oldest to newest of today's post, so I may have a lot more to say on this later, but for now I want to say that I actually agree with this. To me, this puts the power in the hands of the people who are being discriminated against and allows them to make their own choices, and by doing so, effectively hurts the people trying to cause them harm. I'm all for this type of action.

[dreadgeek]

Originally Posted by QueenofSmirks

I'm actually reading post by post, oldest to newest of today's post, so I may have a lot more to say on this later, but for now I want to say that I actually agree with this. To me, this puts the power in the hands of the people who are being discriminated against and allows them to make their own choices, and by doing so, effectively hurts the people trying to cause them harm. I'm all for this type of action.

To me this is just a boycott by another name. As I said before, I do not think you or Cody or any other person posting on this thread supports SB 1070 or thinks that racial profiling is a great idea. That said, SB 1070 exists, the law in question puts a big 'racial profiling welcome here' sign at the border of Arizona and I do not think that it helps if there are NO consequences to be paid. If Arizona gets away with this and banning, for all practical purposes, the teaching of any form of ethnic studies then other states will be emboldened to do something similar.

As far as voting, only 46.49% of Arizonans who were eligible voted a month ago. What that means is that 53.51% of Arizonans, by not voting, voted for Brewer by default. Not voting is always a tacit vote for whomever ends up winning the election. Again, I want to make it clear that I'm not talking about you or Cody I'm talking about Arizona as a polity and the results of the choices that Arizona has made. A majority of eligible voters were comfortable enough with the prospect of Ms Brewer as governor to not vote.

That doesn't mean that I look down on Arizonans, I don't. It doesn't mean that I think that all Arizonans are racists or think that racial profiling is the best thing to happen since oxygen. It means simply that more than half of all eligible Arizona voters failed to exercise their right to vote and are thus responsible for what happens.

It is sad that you and other Arizonans of goodwill will be caught up in this.

Cheers
Aj

[DomnNC]

FYI - Voters Rights - Straight from the website of the National Coalition for the Homeless.

http://www.nationalhomeless.org/proj...galissues.html

Some states had previously required registrants to live in a “traditional dwelling” in order to register to vote. Judicial decisions in court cases and the enactment of state and federal laws have eliminated that requirement. Today, homeless individuals in all states--including those people who are living on the streets--have the right to register and vote. When registering to vote, homeless voters only need to designate their place of residence, which can be a street corner, a park, a shelter, or any other location where an individual stays at night.

Concerning mailing addresses: The address provided may be that of a local advocacy organization, shelter, outreach center, or anywhere else willing to accept mail on behalf of a person registering to vote. Some states, like Arizona or Nebraska, allow homeless people to use county courthouses or county clerks’ offices as their mailing address. Some states will not allow registrants to use a P.O. Box as a mailing address. A registrant’s mailing address does not have to be the person’s residential address.

Concerning lack of ID: If a registrant has neither a current driver’s license number nor Social Security Number, then the registrant will be assigned a voter ID number once her or his registration is approved.

You can read the rest at the website. Every American has the right to vote, homeless or not.

[I'mOneToo]

Speaking as a (formerly) "real homeless person" (though i preferred the term "houseless")

because none have come forth, I'll give you a first person account

I *DID* have: (and still do have, it's not a "home address" that legitimizes a person)

A post office box

A voter registration card

A valid driver's license

A healthier diet than some "housed" folks (heck, even myself right now -- I could afford better food then!)

An up-to-date auto insurance policy

A bank account

A life without debt



I did *NOT* ever:

Stay in a shelter

Stay in a halfway house

Make national or global current events my first stop on the information highway when availing myself of internet access

NEVER NEVER NEVER bought alcohol

NEVER NEVER NEVER bought cigarettes

NEVER NEVER NEVER bought illicit drugs of any kind

NEVER NEVER NEVER made assumptions about how "real homeless people" feel -- i.e., for me it did not HURT ME to be homeless in any way. What hurt at times was people making incredible assumptions about me, my life, and my feelings. But no, MY TRUTH did NOT hurt.

I would not feel ashamed if any of my "nots" had been "yesses" on the list, however. Hope I've dispelled some of the myths abounding about what kind of rights homeless folks have. Not everyone has *ACCESS* but no one is denied the *RIGHT* to vote, to drive, or to live without fear of being judged for living in less than what some consider "a proper home."



I'll be back after I marinate on my thoughts about how so many of you have suggested that my family and friends in arizona should suffer dire economic consequences (in other words, that my friends and family deserve to die?) because "their state" has adopted racist policies.

When anyone says "boycott a state" they are recommending bankrupting all of the residents. Bankrupt people starve to death. It's hard to move an entire family to make a political statement -- just as it is difficult for everyone HERE to move TO arizona to make a political statement.

hmm... but why *aren't* we ALL moving *TO* arizona to register to vote as arizonans to change things? How can anyone EXCEPT a privileged individual expect *others* to make sacrifices to make america better, instead of taking the bull by the horns ourselves? the ONLY pro-active measures are votes, according to this thread. So... if you're not a registered arizona voter, GET THERE AND REGISTER.

There was an article that came out a couple of days about about how next door in Nevada they are considering their own version of SB1070.

http://www.nevadaappeal.com/article/...ntProfile=1058 - "2 Nevada lawmakers to push for immigration law"

sooooo..... BOYCOTT ARIZONA and while you're at it, BOYCOTT NEVADA ... and BOYCOTT THE OTHER 20 STATES CONSIDERING SIMILAR MEASURES TO SB1070

http://colorlines.com/archives/2010/...s_sb_1070.html

in case everyone is unaware, the latest racist policies of arizona are driven by a rigged corporate game. I'll be back with details of that, too. early in the thread, someone named dean robert hit it on the head.

Originally Posted by DomnNC

FYI - Voters Rights - Straight from the website of the National Coalition for the Homeless.

http://www.nationalhomeless.org/proj...galissues.html

Some states had previously required registrants to live in a “traditional dwelling” in order to register to vote. Judicial decisions in court cases and the enactment of state and federal laws have eliminated that requirement. Today, homeless individuals in all states--including those people who are living on the streets--have the right to register and vote. When registering to vote, homeless voters only need to designate their place of residence, which can be a street corner, a park, a shelter, or any other location where an individual stays at night.

Concerning mailing addresses: The address provided may be that of a local advocacy organization, shelter, outreach center, or anywhere else willing to accept mail on behalf of a person registering to vote. Some states, like Arizona or Nebraska, allow homeless people to use county courthouses or county clerks’ offices as their mailing address. Some states will not allow registrants to use a P.O. Box as a mailing address. A registrant’s mailing address does not have to be the person’s residential address.

Concerning lack of ID: If a registrant has neither a current driver’s license number nor Social Security Number, then the registrant will be assigned a voter ID number once her or his registration is approved.

You can read the rest at the website. Every American has the right to vote, homeless or not.

[dreadgeek]

Originally Posted by I'mOneToo

I'll be back after I marinate on my thoughts about how so many of you have suggested that my family and friends in arizona should suffer dire economic consequences (in other words, that my friends and family deserve to die?) because "their state" has adopted racist policies.

Actually no one has said or implied anything remotely like the idea that anyone should die. I will, however, reiterate that laws have consequences.

When anyone says "boycott a state" they are recommending bankrupting all of the residents.

No, they are recommending putting pressure on the state of Arizona to change the law. The whole idea of a strike or a boycott isn't to ruin businesses, it is to put pressure on them. Right now, Arizona has a law that is explicitly racist and is an open invitation to racial profiling. It is meant to make a particular population feel unsafe and unwelcome and like second-class citizens. It is meant to intimidate citizens. That law must be repealed.

Bankrupt people starve to death. It's hard to move an entire family to make a political statement -- just as it is difficult for everyone HERE to move TO arizona to make a political statement.

No one is suggesting that people move to 'make a political statement'. I do believe it would behoove Hispanics living in Arizona to find the exits but that is not about making a political statement, that is about making sure that they are safe. Whites living in Arizona have no reason to move. Let them stay. As I said last night, an exodus is a boycott by another name. I think that Hispanics should leave the state of Arizona and move somewhere they will be welcome.

hmm... but why *aren't* we ALL moving *TO* arizona to register to vote as arizonans to change things?

Why should ANY person of color put themselves in harm's way? If it were *just* this law, maybe you would have a point but it isn't *just* this law. There's the 'no teaching ethnic studies in school' regulation with its attendant 'no teaching if you have a 'thick' accent' provision. There's the billboards showing a Hispanic family as "the biggest threat facing our nation". And then there's this gem; on 3 Oct 2009 an interracial couple was walking through a park and a man came up to them and asked the black man what he was doing with a white woman. They walked on, he got into a car, followed them and shot them. She died, he lived. In 2009. Over interracial dating. In Arizona.

How can anyone EXCEPT a privileged individual expect *others* to make sacrifices to make america better, instead of taking the bull by the horns ourselves? the ONLY pro-active measures are votes, according to this thread. So... if you're not a registered arizona voter, GET THERE AND REGISTER.

Except that sword cuts both ways. It is always people of color who have to exercise infinite patience. At each step in the last century, black people were told we had to wait. ONE day, but not today, we could go to any school. ONE day, but not too soon, we could live in any neighborhood. ONE day, but wait for it to come, we will be able to marry anyone we love. And on and on and on. Even today, if someone says something offensive it is always and forever people of color who are supposed to be patient, forbearing and understanding.

Votes have consequences or they should have. Arizona, a state in a democratic republic, elected people who passed a law that in 2010 makes a segment of the population second-class citizens. The state, by its democratic behavior, made a choice and yes it absolutely sucks that people who made another choice will feel pain because of it. They don't deserve it. But neither does the Hispanic mother deserve to have to fear being pulled over by a cop when she was just running down to get a few items at the grocery store and so doesn't have her birth cert on her. For that matter, neither does the Hispanic father who may have to hold it together while he is humiliated by some cop who asks him questions along the "so how long have you been in this country" line. You have not truly tasted of life's bittersweet tragedy until you have had to watch your father hold it in while his very dignity is assaulted in front of his family. They don't deserve it either.

I'm not talking about people in the country without proper documents or people who have overstayed their visa. I'm talking about people whose bloodlines have lived on the same patch of land since not long after the last ice age ended. They are citizens. I'm talking about people born here. They, too, are citizens. After the Civil Rights movement, I and many others thought, it would appear incorrectly, that we had at long last settled the issue in this country of whether you could make laws designed to make a group of people second-class citizens based upon race. Since Arizona has chosen to take a step backward, I think two things should happen until the state comes to its senses:

1) Every Hispanic person who *can* leave the state should give very serious consideration to finding a new zip code.

2) People should not vacation in Arizona, organizations should not have their conventions in Arizona.

The people who *own* the businesses in Arizona want to continue doing so. If they begin to feel the pressure, they *will* pressure their government to repeal the bill. That's how strikes and boycotts work. That's why they are used.

There was an article that came out a couple of days about about how next door in Nevada they are considering their own version of SB1070.

http://www.nevadaappeal.com/article/...ntProfile=1058 - "2 Nevada lawmakers to push for immigration law"

sooooo..... BOYCOTT ARIZONA and while you're at it, BOYCOTT NEVADA ... and BOYCOTT THE OTHER 20 STATES CONSIDERING SIMILAR MEASURES TO SB1070

Any state that passes a similar law should have to fear the exact same set of consequences. Perhaps that would give them a moment of pause.

in case everyone is unaware, the latest racist policies of arizona are driven by a rigged corporate game. I'll be back with details of that, too. early in the thread, someone named dean robert hit it on the head.

They may be driven by that and I think that a number of us are aware of it. However, that does not change, substantially, the effects on the ground. Racist laws should have consequences for states that pass them and NOT just the sole consequence that the ethnic minority targeted by them gets to live in fear.

Cheers
Aj

[I'mOneToo]

I know this is going to be a screwed up mess quote wise, because I do not understand the multi quote function. I may have to delete it if it's too messy, or there's always that ignore button for those who find it too cumbersome, aj i may pm you if you please
*****
---End Quote---
Actually no one has said or implied anything remotely like the idea that anyone should die. I will, however, reiterate that laws have consequences.


the consequences you mentioned, could cost lives. there is no need for casualties. how much acceptable collateral damage will you allow?

*****
---Quote---
When anyone says "boycott a state" they are recommending bankrupting all of the residents.
---End Quote---
No, they are recommending putting pressure on the state of Arizona to change the law. The whole idea of a strike or a boycott isn't to ruin businesses, it is to put pressure on them. Right now, Arizona has a law that is explicitly racist and is an open invitation to racial profiling. It is meant to make a particular population feel unsafe and unwelcome and like second-class citizens. It is meant to intimidate citizens. That law must be repealed.


how do 'THEY' recommend putting pressure on a state? it's the state legislature that needs to make the changes, not the innocent citizens, second class, third class, steerage, everyone went down on the titanic, too. i understand the racist laws and their intended target, but everyone will get blood spatter on them before this boycott is through. no one here is saying that anyone deserves to feel unsafe or unwelcome. but a boycott, intimidates ALL of the inhabitants of the state. how does that resolve the situation? 6 million wrongs make a right? the laws must be repealed, yes i agree wholeheartedly. but 'THEY' won't do it successfully by boycotting anything/everything associated with arizona. people i know and love in the state, regardless of their color or immigration status, will be impacted negatively and unnecessarily.

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Bankrupt people starve to death. It's hard to move an entire family to make a political statement -- just as it is difficult for everyone HERE to move TO arizona to make a political statement.
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No one is suggesting that people move to 'make a political statement'. I do believe it would behoove Hispanics living in Arizona to find the exits but that is not about making a political statement, that is about making sure that they are safe. Whites living in Arizona have no reason to move. Let them stay. As I said last night, an exodus is a boycott by another name. I think that Hispanics should leave the state of Arizona and move somewhere they will be welcome.

You said earlier in post #921, this:

"I am going to go out on a limb and suggest that the good people of the Birmingham Bus Company did not think that the Birmingham Bus Boycott was the answer for the problem of blacks sitting in the back of the bus. I'm going to also suggest that the good people of the Woolworth's company didn't think that a boycott of the Woolworth's lunch counter was the right way to deal with that manifestation of segregation. The targets of a boycott NEVER think that it's a good idea--that's kind of the whole point of a boycott is to motivate people to change the conditions that precipitate the boycott.

However, I'm all ears. If a boycott isn't the answer and a mass exodus of Hispanics isn't the answer, what is?"

I gave you my best solution, to fill the state with a majority of card-totin registered voters who could put the legislature's feet to the fire. It's not a bus company that's writing bad laws in AZ, it's not Woolworth's doing it either. If you say boycott the state, it sounds too large and too vague for people to grasp. But how does one boycott a legislature? Well, there are a couple of ways. Ringing the hook off the legislator's desk has usually proved fruitless -- but people can try that. What COULD work is already being done, which is involving the Department Of Justice and the US Supreme court to decide a couple of matters pertaining to the issue.

A boycott is defined as "a form of consumer activism involving the act of voluntarily abstaining from using, buying, or dealing with a person, organization, or country as an expression of protest, usually for political reasons."

An exodus is defined as "a journey by a large group to escape from a hostile environment"

I can't find any references showing the two are linked or any way similar. But for the sake of argument, if you do advocate hispanics finding the exits, what's to say they would be any safer in another state? i mean no disrespect, but i cannot figure out what state of the US, if any, has rolled out the welcome mat for hispanics, whether they are in the US legally or not. this is why i suggest to fill the state up with a majority of fair minded people who can push a recall of Brewer, for one who could strike down what she signed -- but I suspect her replacement would be a similar clone. if all hispanics leave Arizona, do they get to come back after the smoke has all cleared? if you say they are welcome in one of the 50 states, would it not be similar to the ghettos of WWII?

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hmm... but why *aren't* we ALL moving *TO* arizona to register to vote as arizonans to change things?
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Why should ANY person of color put themselves in harm's way? If it were *just* this law, maybe you would have a point but it isn't *just* this law. There's the 'no teaching ethnic studies in school' regulation with its attendant 'no teaching if you have a 'thick' accent' provision. There's the billboards showing a Hispanic family as "the biggest threat facing our nation". And then there's this gem; on 3 Oct 2009 an interracial couple was walking through a park and a man came up to them and asked the black man what he was doing with a white woman. They walked on, he got into a car, followed them and shot them. She died, he lived. In 2009. Over interracial dating. In Arizona.

no one should be put in harm's way. i'm not saying people of a specific color should move to arizona and register to vote. i'm saying everyone eligible to vote regardless of color COULD move to arizona, to work to change the laws that need to be changed. by keeping a white moneyed elite majority, arizona will *never* be safe for people of color. or for anyone except the moneyed elite, really. just as school busing did not improve racial relations, neither will promotion of the busing of hispanics OUT (or however you propose to move them out) of arizona. the billboard you mentioned is meant to pander to the worst kind of fear, and that is the fear that the "HAVES" could lose the value of their property or their supposed 'supremacy'. the incident in october 2009, has been re-enacted in almost every state of the union in the past decade (or longer). those stories are told to instill fear. to keep people of color down. yes, sadly they are true. but if everyone of color leaves arizona in 2010, it's a win-win for the white supremacists of arizona, and a lose-lose proposition for every other state in the union, because the copy-cat laws will really get rolling across the country.

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How can anyone EXCEPT a privileged individual expect *others* to make sacrifices to make america better, instead of taking the bull by the horns ourselves? the ONLY pro-active measures are votes, according to this thread. So... if you're not a registered arizona voter, GET THERE AND REGISTER.
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Except that sword cuts both ways. It is always people of color who have to exercise infinite patience. At each step in the last century, black people were told we had to wait. ONE day, but not today, we could go to any school. ONE day, but not too soon, we could live in any neighborhood. ONE day, but wait for it to come, we will be able to marry anyone we love. And on and on and on. Even today, if someone says something offensive it is always and forever people of color who are supposed to be patient, forbearing and understanding.

i hear you. i think the only thing african american people never hear is accusations that they are illegal immigrants. these days, it seems like everywhere i go, people complain about illegal immigrants. undocumented, workers and otherwise. surprisingly, some people who have made some of those comments to me were people of color other than hispanic. millions of americans are now out of work, and they point to everyone for blame -- but first, the ones who "took their jobs." When logic shows them that it's overwhelmingly true that corporations are opting out of using american workers and choose overseas labor instead, they still don't get it. there is a blind spot. i'm not asking anyone to have infinite patience. if (A) votes are the answer to changing arizona's laws, then (B) the fastest way to do that is to fill the state with residents who will vote to do the right thing.

Or, "vote early and vote often" as they once used to say in Chicago. I'm really surprised no one has suspected Brewer of having a 'fix' in the registrar's office, counting her ballots twice for every one of Goddard's.

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Votes have consequences or they should have. Arizona, a state in a democratic republic, elected people who passed a law that in 2010 makes a segment of the population second-class citizens. The state, by its democratic behavior, made a choice and yes it absolutely sucks that people who made another choice will feel pain because of it. They don't deserve it. But neither does the Hispanic mother deserve to have to fear being pulled over by a cop when she was just running down to get a few items at the grocery store and so doesn't have her birth cert on her. For that matter, neither does the Hispanic father who may have to hold it together while he is humiliated by some cop who asks him questions along the "so how long have you been in this country" line. You have not truly tasted of life's bittersweet tragedy until you have had to watch your father hold it in while his very dignity is assaulted in front of his family. They don't deserve it either.


i understand that this is a very emotional issue, and is the crux of the matter. no one in america is so superior that they have the right, just because they wear a badge, to speak condescendingly to a fellow human being. the state's democratic behavior voted a buffoon into office, she is a pawn who was put into office by big moneyed interests. but the state's democratic behavior has no say on sb1070. it's not a ballot initiative. every person who I know personally in Arizona is against SB1070 -- and they cannot undo it. Every one of them did not vote for Brewer, but she's there sitting in the governor's chair.

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I'm not talking about people in the country without proper documents or people who have overstayed their visa. I'm talking about people whose bloodlines have lived on the same patch of land since not long after the last ice age ended. They are citizens. I'm talking about people born here. They, too, are citizens. After the Civil Rights movement, I and many others thought, it would appear incorrectly, that we had at long last settled the issue in this country of whether you could make laws designed to make a group of people second-class citizens based upon race. Since Arizona has chosen to take a step backward, I think two things should happen until the state comes to its senses:

1) Every Hispanic person who *can* leave the state should give very serious consideration to finding a new zip code.

2) People should not vacation in Arizona, organizations should not have their conventions in Arizona.

The people who *own* the businesses in Arizona want to continue doing so. If they begin to feel the pressure, they *will* pressure their government to repeal the bill. That's how strikes and boycotts work. That's why they are used.



I really hear what you're saying. It's a huge step backwards. I understand too, about harrassing people of color simply because of their color. It has happened to members of my own family who live in Arizona and elsewhere. They are citizens too, some of them for generations and some of them are first generation, they all have 'papers' and now they have an added burden of having to carry a shitload of paper around but even larger than the wad of paper is the pervasive fear. This pressure you say business owners should put on the government to change the laws, how does one go about pressuring the government when the legislature is being driven by a corporate machine?

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There was an article that came out a couple of days about about how next door in Nevada they are considering their own version of SB1070.

http://www.nevadaappeal.com/article/...ntProfile=1058 - "2 Nevada lawmakers to push for immigration law"

sooooo..... BOYCOTT ARIZONA and while you're at it, BOYCOTT NEVADA ... and BOYCOTT THE OTHER 20 STATES CONSIDERING SIMILAR MEASURES TO SB1070
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Any state that passes a similar law should have to fear the exact same set of consequences. Perhaps that would give them a moment of pause.


I'm afraid that the results of that could be widespread panic, not a moment of pause.


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in case everyone is unaware, the latest racist policies of arizona are driven by a rigged corporate game. I'll be back with details of that, too. early in the thread, someone named dean robert hit it on the head.
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They may be driven by that and I think that a number of us are aware of it. However, that does not change, substantially, the effects on the ground. Racist laws should have consequences for states that pass them and NOT just the sole consequence that the ethnic minority targeted by them gets to live in fear.


Where you and I differ on "the ground" aspect is that to me, the first order of business is do everything possible to reverse the law. Not engage in fear-mongering and telling people to leave the state and boycott anything/everything Arizonan. Unfortunately, reversing bad law takes time. But hasty decisions such as moving away, or wishing ill consequences on 6 million people is not the answer, for *me*. I understand you have your reasons, and I read them several times to really understand them and know there are no pat answers to a challenge of monumental proportions.

These links tell a little bit about who drove the campaign money machine for brewer, and why:

http://www.rightwingwatch.org/conten...igrants-profit

http://mydd.com/users/restore-fairne...mmigration-law

The states that are eyeing SB1070 are not doing it because they hate illegal immigrants, the Pollyanna in me believes it in my soul. But since they have learned that a majority of "white americans" have this knee jerk reaction to immigration, they go for the lowest common denominator which in this case, also happens to be the largest voting bloc. Whether it's a state bill or a voter initiative, the copy cats know their game better than we do. I can't remember what the statistic is, but in not too many years, whites will be in the minority in the US. During Clinton's presidency (when it looked like queers might actually gain the right to legally wed in a few states), we were blindsided with DOMA. This latest attempt to put people in their place is driven by the same thing: MONEY and PROPERTY RIGHTS.

The other states are probably being wooed by the same corporate interests that are cozy with Jan Brewer. It's all about $$$! I know there is much more truth to come out, and it will be too late for some people


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