For the T-Femmes and SOFFAs...

[Dylan]

May I ask a question?

What is the big deal if some femmes like the term T-femme, transensual femme, or SOFFA? Honestly, what is the big f-ing deal?

As a transman (who apparently can't speak for himself when it comes to 'othering') I do not feel othered or fetishized by the term or by the fact that there are femmes in the world who like to date transmen. Speaking for myself as a transman, I do not feel othered at all. In fact, it's damned refreshing for a change. For ten years I have seen thread after thread about femmes who like this kind of butch and femmes who like that kind of butch and femmes who like all butches and so on and so forth. I have seen thread after thread about why femmes will NOT partner with transmen, and I've endured horror story after horror story about how ThisFemme or ThatFemme once dated a transman, and he turned out to be dick. I have listened to lesbian femmes discuss all the reasonings and whynots that they find transmen "disturbing".

Ya' know, there ARE differences in relationships between those who are transitioning and those who aren't transitioning. There just are. And guess what...femmes who ARE partnered with transmen, haven't had a thread in...what?...at least 4or5 years now. There have been issues in my relationships in which my partners had NO other femmes with whom to discuss certain issues, questions, whatnots that came up...and the same rings true today, because some people don't like a term that other people have decided for themselves to use in their identities. Can't there just be a thread in which femmes who want or need a place to discuss the issues they deal with in our relationships to share and discuss without feeling accosted? Because honestly, Mahhh Woman is accosted enough by outsiders, family, the queer community, the straight community, by coworkers, and even by random strangers on the street.

I mean, for chrissakes, if saying you like transmen is 'othering' than we'd better shut down all of the "I love butches, because..." threads too for being 'othering'...I mean, since butches just want to be 'normalized' and all.

For realz, can't there just be ONE thread in which femmes partnered with transmen can just have a conversation without having their identities picked apart again? Because it's not like there's a slew of Partners of Transmen waltzing around in every city to just ask whatever random question you have or to find support. And it's not like their identities aren't picked apart already be the majority of the queer community telling them they're not queer or the majority of the straight community telling them they're not straight.

And one more question, why is it that a femme's sexuality is assumed to be pansexual within this community? NO ONE would have their knickers in a twist if this were a thread in which femmes wanted to talk about how they only partner with female ID'd butches, and how hot they think female ID'd butches are. I mean, honestly, are femmes just supposed to be into any butch who crosses the street? Or are they allowed to be interested in particular types of butches? Or particular subsets? Or (god forbid) ONLY transmen? Seriously. This really is a serious question, because I see this happen a lot...yet, butches are NEVER questioned as to why they only like X femmes, or Y femmes. This just reeks of more monitoring of sexuality. Yeah, some femmes are going to be into transmen and not cismen...sexuality isn't black and white, and there's a grey area in between straight and lesbian <shocking, I know>. And some femmes are going to ID more along the straight lines by only partnering with X transmen or B transmen or male ID'd butches. And some femmes are going to ID as lesbian, but date transmen <again, so shocking>. I mean, that's just the way it is...or are femmes really supposed to be omnisexual in this community? Are they really supposed to be hot for everyone EXCEPT cismen...oh wait, they're supposed to be hot for cismen too, because if they're not hot for cismen too, you can bet some transguy is going to feel invalidated. Sounds like a double bind to me.

Again, there are some very specific differences between dating a transguy and dating a female ID'd butch or a pre-T guy or a guy who's been on T for two years/four years/6months/etc or a cisman. So, why can't that be discussed without another breakdown of terms? I mean, who's Mahhh Woman supposed to ask about shooting T in my ass without killing me if that's a concern she has? And who are partners supposed to talk to about things like being read as straight when you consider yourself a lesbian? And who are partners supposed to talk to about navigating workplace issues after they've invested years in coming out at work, only to now be partnered with a transguy and having to explain using male pronouns? Or how about coming out to your family, and now you have to go back to your family and say, "Oh, by the way, I'm now with a guy...who may or may not look like a girl this week." Seriously, these are all issues partners I've had would have LOVED to discuss with other femmes, but they were too afraid (or fed up) to bring it up on these boards, because they knew how the conversation would go. These are all conversations A LOT of partners could really benefit from, and they're conversations most of us transguys don't have answers to either. Our transitions are not one way paths that don't affect our partners (and contrary to popular belief, they're not all about us either...as has been repeated a billion times in the "Why I Won't Date A Transman" Threads). So, honestly, the next time my partner asks me a question on an issue I don't face, who should she ask next? Should she come here to squabble over someone else's ID? If you don't like the term, don't use it...seems pretty simple. I mean, I don't much care for the term transsexual, so I don't use it...but if other transguys claim that term for themselves, it really doesn't affect me; so I'm not understanding why the thread has to get stuck on Bit's or Rainbow's personally chosen term/additional marker/distinguishing/ID/label/supplement/whatever y'all want to call it. I mean, if you don't like 'babygirl' does that mean other people can't use it to describe themselves? Because doesn't that 'other' daddies? (rhetorical)

If there IS a soffa site somewhere, will someone please let me know, so I can pass it along to not only Mahhh Woman but other femmes I know who are partnered to transguys and have questions/would like to meet other soffas, but who don't want to have their sexuality/IDs re-hashed or scrutinized one.more.time.


Thank You,
Dylan

[Cyclopea]

I prefer to hear femme voices in this femme thread posted in the femme zone.
Yes I am aware of the hypocrisy/irony of my non-femme post.

[atomiczombie]

Originally Posted by Cyclopea

I prefer to hear femme voices in this femme thread posted in the femme zone.
Yes I am aware of the hypocrisy/irony of my non-femme post.

And I am so amused at the irony of this post.

[Cyclopea]

Originally Posted by atomiczombie

And I am so amused at the irony of this post.

Awesome!

[Words]

Brilliant post Dylan.

Words

Originally Posted by Dylan

May I ask a question?

What is the big deal if some femmes like the term T-femme, transensual femme, or SOFFA? Honestly, what is the big f-ing deal?

As a transman (who apparently can't speak for himself when it comes to 'othering') I do not feel othered or fetishized by the term or by the fact that there are femmes in the world who like to date transmen. Speaking for myself as a transman, I do not feel othered at all. In fact, it's damned refreshing for a change. For ten years I have seen thread after thread about femmes who like this kind of butch and femmes who like that kind of butch and femmes who like all butches and so on and so forth. I have seen thread after thread about why femmes will NOT partner with transmen, and I've endured horror story after horror story about how ThisFemme or ThatFemme once dated a transman, and he turned out to be dick. I have listened to lesbian femmes discuss all the reasonings and whynots that they find transmen "disturbing".

Ya' know, there ARE differences in relationships between those who are transitioning and those who aren't transitioning. There just are. And guess what...femmes who ARE partnered with transmen, haven't had a thread in...what?...at least 4or5 years now. There have been issues in my relationships in which my partners had NO other femmes with whom to discuss certain issues, questions, whatnots that came up...and the same rings true today, because some people don't like a term that other people have decided for themselves to use in their identities. Can't there just be a thread in which femmes who want or need a place to discuss the issues they deal with in our relationships to share and discuss without feeling accosted? Because honestly, Mahhh Woman is accosted enough by outsiders, family, the queer community, the straight community, by coworkers, and even by random strangers on the street.

I mean, for chrissakes, if saying you like transmen is 'othering' than we'd better shut down all of the "I love butches, because..." threads too for being 'othering'...I mean, since butches just want to be 'normalized' and all.

For realz, can't there just be ONE thread in which femmes partnered with transmen can just have a conversation without having their identities picked apart again? Because it's not like there's a slew of Partners of Transmen waltzing around in every city to just ask whatever random question you have or to find support. And it's not like their identities aren't picked apart already be the majority of the queer community telling them they're not queer or the majority of the straight community telling them they're not straight.

And one more question, why is it that a femme's sexuality is assumed to be pansexual within this community? NO ONE would have their knickers in a twist if this were a thread in which femmes wanted to talk about how they only partner with female ID'd butches, and how hot they think female ID'd butches are. I mean, honestly, are femmes just supposed to be into any butch who crosses the street? Or are they allowed to be interested in particular types of butches? Or particular subsets? Or (god forbid) ONLY transmen? Seriously. This really is a serious question, because I see this happen a lot...yet, butches are NEVER questioned as to why they only like X femmes, or Y femmes. This just reeks of more monitoring of sexuality. Yeah, some femmes are going to be into transmen and not cismen...sexuality isn't black and white, and there's a grey area in between straight and lesbian <shocking, I know>. And some femmes are going to ID more along the straight lines by only partnering with X transmen or B transmen or male ID'd butches. And some femmes are going to ID as lesbian, but date transmen <again, so shocking>. I mean, that's just the way it is...or are femmes really supposed to be omnisexual in this community? Are they really supposed to be hot for everyone EXCEPT cismen...oh wait, they're supposed to be hot for cismen too, because if they're not hot for cismen too, you can bet some transguy is going to feel invalidated. Sounds like a double bind to me.

Again, there are some very specific differences between dating a transguy and dating a female ID'd butch or a pre-T guy or a guy who's been on T for two years/four years/6months/etc or a cisman. So, why can't that be discussed without another breakdown of terms? I mean, who's Mahhh Woman supposed to ask about shooting T in my ass without killing me if that's a concern she has? And who are partners supposed to talk to about things like being read as straight when you consider yourself a lesbian? And who are partners supposed to talk to about navigating workplace issues after they've invested years in coming out at work, only to now be partnered with a transguy and having to explain using male pronouns? Or how about coming out to your family, and now you have to go back to your family and say, "Oh, by the way, I'm now with a guy...who may or may not look like a girl this week." Seriously, these are all issues partners I've had would have LOVED to discuss with other femmes, but they were too afraid (or fed up) to bring it up on these boards, because they knew how the conversation would go. These are all conversations A LOT of partners could really benefit from, and they're conversations most of us transguys don't have answers to either. Our transitions are not one way paths that don't affect our partners (and contrary to popular belief, they're not all about us either...as has been repeated a billion times in the "Why I Won't Date A Transman" Threads). So, honestly, the next time my partner asks me a question on an issue I don't face, who should she ask next? Should she come here to squabble over someone else's ID? If you don't like the term, don't use it...seems pretty simple. I mean, I don't much care for the term transsexual, so I don't use it...but if other transguys claim that term for themselves, it really doesn't affect me; so I'm not understanding why the thread has to get stuck on Bit's or Rainbow's personally chosen term/additional marker/distinguishing/ID/label/supplement/whatever y'all want to call it. I mean, if you don't like 'babygirl' does that mean other people can't use it to describe themselves? Because doesn't that 'other' daddies? (rhetorical)

If there IS a soffa site somewhere, will someone please let me know, so I can pass it along to not only Mahhh Woman but other femmes I know who are partnered to transguys and have questions/would like to meet other soffas, but who don't want to have their sexuality/IDs re-hashed or scrutinized one.more.time.


Thank You,
Dylan

[apretty]

holy manifesto!

Originally Posted by Dylan

As a transman (who apparently can't speak for himself when it comes to 'othering') I do not feel othered or fetishized by the term or by the fact that there are femmes in the world who like to date transmen. Speaking for myself as a transman, I do not feel othered at all. In fact, it's damned refreshing for a change. For ten years I have seen thread after thread about femmes who like this kind of butch and femmes who like that kind of butch and femmes who like all butches and so on and so forth. I have seen thread after thread about why femmes will NOT partner with transmen, and I've endured horror story after horror story about how ThisFemme or ThatFemme once dated a transman, and he turned out to be dick. I have listened to lesbian femmes discuss all the reasonings and whynots that they find transmen "disturbing".

Ya' know, there ARE differences in relationships between those who are transitioning and those who aren't transitioning. There just are. And guess what...femmes who ARE partnered with transmen, haven't had a thread in...what?...at least 4or5 years now. There have been issues in my relationships in which my partners had NO other femmes with whom to discuss certain issues, questions, whatnots that came up...and the same rings true today, because some people don't like a term that other people have decided for themselves to use in their identities. Can't there just be a thread in which femmes who want or need a place to discuss the issues they deal with in our relationships to share and discuss without feeling accosted? Because honestly, Mahhh Woman is accosted enough by outsiders, family, the queer community, the straight community, by coworkers, and even by random strangers on the street.

I mean, for chrissakes, if saying you like transmen is 'othering' than we'd better shut down all of the "I love butches, because..." threads too for being 'othering'...I mean, since butches just want to be 'normalized' and all.

For realz, can't there just be ONE thread in which femmes partnered with transmen can just have a conversation without having their identities picked apart again? Because it's not like there's a slew of Partners of Transmen waltzing around in every city to just ask whatever random question you have or to find support. And it's not like their identities aren't picked apart already be the majority of the queer community telling them they're not queer or the majority of the straight community telling them they're not straight.

And one more question, why is it that a femme's sexuality is assumed to be pansexual within this community? NO ONE would have their knickers in a twist if this were a thread in which femmes wanted to talk about how they only partner with female ID'd butches, and how hot they think female ID'd butches are. I mean, honestly, are femmes just supposed to be into any butch who crosses the street? Or are they allowed to be interested in particular types of butches? Or particular subsets? Or (god forbid) ONLY transmen? Seriously. This really is a serious question, because I see this happen a lot...yet, butches are NEVER questioned as to why they only like X femmes, or Y femmes. This just reeks of more monitoring of sexuality. Yeah, some femmes are going to be into transmen and not cismen...sexuality isn't black and white, and there's a grey area in between straight and lesbian <shocking, I know>. And some femmes are going to ID more along the straight lines by only partnering with X transmen or B transmen or male ID'd butches. And some femmes are going to ID as lesbian, but date transmen <again, so shocking>. I mean, that's just the way it is...or are femmes really supposed to be omnisexual in this community? Are they really supposed to be hot for everyone EXCEPT cismen...oh wait, they're supposed to be hot for cismen too, because if they're not hot for cismen too, you can bet some transguy is going to feel invalidated. Sounds like a double bind to me.

Again, there are some very specific differences between dating a transguy and dating a female ID'd butch or a pre-T guy or a guy who's been on T for two years/four years/6months/etc or a cisman. So, why can't that be discussed without another breakdown of terms? I mean, who's Mahhh Woman supposed to ask about shooting T in my ass without killing me if that's a concern she has? And who are partners supposed to talk to about things like being read as straight when you consider yourself a lesbian? And who are partners supposed to talk to about navigating workplace issues after they've invested years in coming out at work, only to now be partnered with a transguy and having to explain using male pronouns? Or how about coming out to your family, and now you have to go back to your family and say, "Oh, by the way, I'm now with a guy...who may or may not look like a girl this week." Seriously, these are all issues partners I've had would have LOVED to discuss with other femmes, but they were too afraid (or fed up) to bring it up on these boards, because they knew how the conversation would go. These are all conversations A LOT of partners could really benefit from, and they're conversations most of us transguys don't have answers to either. Our transitions are not one way paths that don't affect our partners (and contrary to popular belief, they're not all about us either...as has been repeated a billion times in the "Why I Won't Date A Transman" Threads). So, honestly, the next time my partner asks me a question on an issue I don't face, who should she ask next? Should she come here to squabble over someone else's ID? If you don't like the term, don't use it...seems pretty simple. I mean, I don't much care for the term transsexual, so I don't use it...but if other transguys claim that term for themselves, it really doesn't affect me; so I'm not understanding why the thread has to get stuck on Bit's or Rainbow's personally chosen term/additional marker/distinguishing/ID/label/supplement/whatever y'all want to call it. I mean, if you don't like 'babygirl' does that mean other people can't use it to describe themselves? Because doesn't that 'other' daddies? (rhetorical)

If there IS a soffa site somewhere, will someone please let me know, so I can pass it along to not only Mahhh Woman but other femmes I know who are partnered to transguys and have questions/would like to meet other soffas, but who don't want to have their sexuality/IDs re-hashed or scrutinized one.more.time.


Thank You,
Dylan

[julieisafemme]

I am a femme. I don't think Bit or anyone else is being called out for how they identify. I know you can speak for yourself. I can speak for me too. I don't think it is a big deal at all how a femme chooses to identify. It is a big deal to me how *I* choose to identify. Right now I am not comfortable with transensual femme.

I do need a thread where I can talk about how I feel as a partner of a transmasculine butch. I feel very alone and isolated a lot of the time. Both in real time and online. I like hearing all the opinions and sharing things I have learned. I don't need a transman or a butch to come in here and tell who can post and what they can post. I am perfectly capable of that. The discussion that I am having with Bit and reading from others helps *me* place where I fit.

Originally Posted by Dylan

May I ask a question?

What is the big deal if some femmes like the term T-femme, transensual femme, or SOFFA? Honestly, what is the big f-ing deal?

As a transman (who apparently can't speak for himself when it comes to 'othering') I do not feel othered or fetishized by the term or by the fact that there are femmes in the world who like to date transmen. Speaking for myself as a transman, I do not feel othered at all. In fact, it's damned refreshing for a change. For ten years I have seen thread after thread about femmes who like this kind of butch and femmes who like that kind of butch and femmes who like all butches and so on and so forth. I have seen thread after thread about why femmes will NOT partner with transmen, and I've endured horror story after horror story about how ThisFemme or ThatFemme once dated a transman, and he turned out to be dick. I have listened to lesbian femmes discuss all the reasonings and whynots that they find transmen "disturbing".

Ya' know, there ARE differences in relationships between those who are transitioning and those who aren't transitioning. There just are. And guess what...femmes who ARE partnered with transmen, haven't had a thread in...what?...at least 4or5 years now. There have been issues in my relationships in which my partners had NO other femmes with whom to discuss certain issues, questions, whatnots that came up...and the same rings true today, because some people don't like a term that other people have decided for themselves to use in their identities. Can't there just be a thread in which femmes who want or need a place to discuss the issues they deal with in our relationships to share and discuss without feeling accosted? Because honestly, Mahhh Woman is accosted enough by outsiders, family, the queer community, the straight community, by coworkers, and even by random strangers on the street.

I mean, for chrissakes, if saying you like transmen is 'othering' than we'd better shut down all of the "I love butches, because..." threads too for being 'othering'...I mean, since butches just want to be 'normalized' and all.

For realz, can't there just be ONE thread in which femmes partnered with transmen can just have a conversation without having their identities picked apart again? Because it's not like there's a slew of Partners of Transmen waltzing around in every city to just ask whatever random question you have or to find support. And it's not like their identities aren't picked apart already be the majority of the queer community telling them they're not queer or the majority of the straight community telling them they're not straight.

And one more question, why is it that a femme's sexuality is assumed to be pansexual within this community? NO ONE would have their knickers in a twist if this were a thread in which femmes wanted to talk about how they only partner with female ID'd butches, and how hot they think female ID'd butches are. I mean, honestly, are femmes just supposed to be into any butch who crosses the street? Or are they allowed to be interested in particular types of butches? Or particular subsets? Or (god forbid) ONLY transmen? Seriously. This really is a serious question, because I see this happen a lot...yet, butches are NEVER questioned as to why they only like X femmes, or Y femmes. This just reeks of more monitoring of sexuality. Yeah, some femmes are going to be into transmen and not cismen...sexuality isn't black and white, and there's a grey area in between straight and lesbian <shocking, I know>. And some femmes are going to ID more along the straight lines by only partnering with X transmen or B transmen or male ID'd butches. And some femmes are going to ID as lesbian, but date transmen <again, so shocking>. I mean, that's just the way it is...or are femmes really supposed to be omnisexual in this community? Are they really supposed to be hot for everyone EXCEPT cismen...oh wait, they're supposed to be hot for cismen too, because if they're not hot for cismen too, you can bet some transguy is going to feel invalidated. Sounds like a double bind to me.

Again, there are some very specific differences between dating a transguy and dating a female ID'd butch or a pre-T guy or a guy who's been on T for two years/four years/6months/etc or a cisman. So, why can't that be discussed without another breakdown of terms? I mean, who's Mahhh Woman supposed to ask about shooting T in my ass without killing me if that's a concern she has? And who are partners supposed to talk to about things like being read as straight when you consider yourself a lesbian? And who are partners supposed to talk to about navigating workplace issues after they've invested years in coming out at work, only to now be partnered with a transguy and having to explain using male pronouns? Or how about coming out to your family, and now you have to go back to your family and say, "Oh, by the way, I'm now with a guy...who may or may not look like a girl this week." Seriously, these are all issues partners I've had would have LOVED to discuss with other femmes, but they were too afraid (or fed up) to bring it up on these boards, because they knew how the conversation would go. These are all conversations A LOT of partners could really benefit from, and they're conversations most of us transguys don't have answers to either. Our transitions are not one way paths that don't affect our partners (and contrary to popular belief, they're not all about us either...as has been repeated a billion times in the "Why I Won't Date A Transman" Threads). So, honestly, the next time my partner asks me a question on an issue I don't face, who should she ask next? Should she come here to squabble over someone else's ID? If you don't like the term, don't use it...seems pretty simple. I mean, I don't much care for the term transsexual, so I don't use it...but if other transguys claim that term for themselves, it really doesn't affect me; so I'm not understanding why the thread has to get stuck on Bit's or Rainbow's personally chosen term/additional marker/distinguishing/ID/label/supplement/whatever y'all want to call it. I mean, if you don't like 'babygirl' does that mean other people can't use it to describe themselves? Because doesn't that 'other' daddies? (rhetorical)

If there IS a soffa site somewhere, will someone please let me know, so I can pass it along to not only Mahhh Woman but other femmes I know who are partnered to transguys and have questions/would like to meet other soffas, but who don't want to have their sexuality/IDs re-hashed or scrutinized one.more.time.


Thank You,
Dylan

[julieisafemme]

Ok I know I am annoying but I just wanted to clarify that I am not dismissing or jumping on Bit or Dylan. I LOVE Dylan. He is my good buddy. We don't always agree and that is ok. Bit is a wonderful poster and I have learned a lot from her. I want it to be ok for us to ask questions and engage in debate as long as we are respectful. I feel like that has been the case thus far. I am sorry if anything I have said has seemed not respectful or mean.

Some days I am really lonely and worn down. The reality is that finding a cohesive trans community where everyone identifies like me is not going to happen. I am open to and want to talk to all partners of trans people. Some people are stealth. Some are not. Some people pass. Some do not. I need support so I can be the best support to my partner. I am hoping that we can all feel safe and comfortable posting and sharing here.

[Soon]

Originally Posted by julieisafemme

Ok I know I am annoying but I just wanted to clarify that I am not dismissing or jumping on Bit or Dylan. I LOVE Dylan. He is my good buddy. We don't always agree and that is ok. Bit is a wonderful poster and I have learned a lot from her. I want it to be ok for us to ask questions and engage in debate as long as we are respectful. I feel like that has been the case thus far. I am sorry if anything I have said has seemed not respectful or mean.

Some days I am really lonely and worn down. The reality is that finding a cohesive trans community where everyone identifies like me is not going to happen. I am open to and want to talk to all partners of trans people. Some people are stealth. Some are not. Some people pass. Some do not. I need support so I can be the best support to my partner. I am hoping that we can all feel safe and comfortable posting and sharing here.

I hear you, Julie, but, sometimes, I need support just for me--just for ME.

I've enjoyed reading everyone's responses to this thread.


Thank you to one and all and especially to Rainbow for starting the thread!

[julieisafemme]

Originally Posted by HowSoonIsNow

I hear you, Julie, but, sometimes, I need support just for me--just for ME.

I've enjoyed reading everyone's responses to this thread.


Thank you to one and all and especially to Rainbow for starting the thread!

I agree! I just see the support I get as a partner as very specific and important to the health of my relationship. I get support for me in a variety of ways that are specific to certain parts of my life, like as a mom or as working woman. I guess I am more compartmentalized!

[firie]

Originally Posted by julieisafemme

Ok I know I am annoying but I just wanted to clarify that I am not dismissing or jumping on Bit or Dylan. I LOVE Dylan. He is my good buddy. We don't always agree and that is ok. Bit is a wonderful poster and I have learned a lot from her. I want it to be ok for us to ask questions and engage in debate as long as we are respectful. I feel like that has been the case thus far. I am sorry if anything I have said has seemed not respectful or mean.

Some days I am really lonely and worn down. The reality is that finding a cohesive trans community where everyone identifies like me is not going to happen. I am open to and want to talk to all partners of trans people. Some people are stealth. Some are not. Some people pass. Some do not. I need support so I can be the best support to my partner. I am hoping that we can all feel safe and comfortable posting and sharing here.

Me too! I wanted to say that I adore you! And hate that you feel lonely and down! And I so hear you! In my me opinion, I don't think you can talk this out with a great many gay and lesbian people, they maybe don't get it, and that's okay, as that's not a sentiment that's meant to war, but just be truthful. We went and listened to a Q&A by Miss Majors and her stance is that the trans community has to separate itself from the GLB community (which is difficult) in order to reach its own goals, as the GLB community has very different goals and this often conflicts a great deal (and perhaps why there is always in-fighting and really protective, however attacking stances, back and forth between primarily gay and trans communities). Yet this makes for a lonelier existence in ways, because despite befriending whoever, you really can't connect on certain issues with people unless they too are experiencing just that and that is really difficult to find, I think because of the diversity, you noted, within the trans community. So what does one do?

I am rambling, but I wish we had more groups for significant others to just talk. I don't know about the labels discussion, as I am really done with labels lately. And also I just hands down believe that self-identity is self-identity and that potential for empowerment loses personal and political power when folks try to slice it all up. Yeah, I think anyone can be anything they want, and that is that. However, a person's actions perhaps are more important to critique if any actual change is going to come from the issues one has with one's behavior. And as with any other id, transensual is going to be what it is to any given person. Objectification is going to feel objectifying depending on how a person feels in whatever situation is objectifying. Relationships don't work if objectification is a problem two people cannot get past, that seems to be a given.

I think too, again, you have conflicting interests in the GLB and Trans communities, perhaps. Or maybe this is just me, but it feels that way certainly. I can't identify from a lesbian context--I am not a lesbian and to claim the identity is disrespectful and privileged to do so. I can't identify or relate to lesbians who do date males, as I can't imagine the dilemma there for certain couples with respect to that identity--it is a challenge I imagine in a number of ways. I date guys, always have, and am not pansexual in any sense. I do get frustrated with it often being assumed that I am omni-or pansexual because of my femme identity. I also get frustrated with it being assumed that I am inherently lesbian when I am not. That is not in anyway a diss to lesbians, I just can't fit into the identity, because even the occasional times I have dated females, well, it didn't work. I know this about myself, despite how heteronormative it feels/is and despite how it situates me in the queer community.

I am really tired, too, of utilizing the internet for information. I have a busy schedule and only spend a few hours a week online. I want a more social avenue, really. Some girlfriends who can lunch and talk this stuff out. So move here, k? Or we will maybe move there?

I ask you, or anyone, do you have any groups? What are they like? Are they helpful? I have had a hell of time finding them here, and nothing that is significant other specific. Because I would like to bond with other partners if possible, as I think that would be healthy and helpful. Just me. If I have the time, at some point, I may very well start a group. As prevalent as the trans community is in Austin, it's not very visible--seems to work a great deal behind the scenes and understandably so. Gender variance is one thing, and there is a lot of visibility for the gender queer here, but again, that doesn't exactly fit us, when it comes to just getting social acquaintances that get where Dylan and I are coming from. For me, there are femme groups, but that doesn't really hit the nail on the head either, and I am really frustrated with femme anyway lately, as a label for me. It feels restrictive, is difficult to bond in, and well, doesn't really empower me or fit me anymore. Dylan and I have been contemplating moving, and even to Houston, because there is a larger community there, and more resources. Austin is really restrictive in a great many ways, because it isn't urban enough to have a great deal of non-profit agency, per se for your smaller "minorities" despite its claiming that it does so. There isn't even really a GLBT center here, per se. Austin also purports to be so "queer" friendly that we all just intermix and live as Austinites, which is just simply not true. Austin kind of approaches race that way too, failing to remind itself that it still segregates daily. We would love to get out of Texas but timing for us on that just makes it impossible at this point in time--I have a new job and Dylan is all over the place with work. Again, sorry, I think I am rambling.

I don't know, it can be frustrating, right?

[julieisafemme]

I so hear you too. I really want to say that I hear you and see you. Your post and others here really highlights how differently partners identify, interact and look at themselves and their partners.

Lesbian does fit me. So does femme. But I am so new to this world and really don't know how it all manifests for me. I came out and then met my partner. All of a sudden I was defined by who I am with. I'm not sure what that means! It's been a little frustrating.

I am going to start in a once a month partner support group next month. I am excited. Not all of the partners identify as a femme or even queer. So I guess this is what I have been trying to say about the transensual femme identity and trying to be aware to some trans men and women that might not be something they understand or feel comfortable with.

I would love to be part of a Yahoo group or maybe a list from this site for partners.

I want to ask and think about all of the hard questions in a safe space. I don't care how anyone identifies. As long as you are a partner then I am open to that. I remember at the conference we went to I sat and talked with a butch partner and we had lots in common that we could discuss even though we are obviously different in how we identify. No one asked me how I identified at this conference.

Ok now I am rambling!!!! I am glad you posted here firie.

Originally Posted by firie

Me too! I wanted to say that I adore you! And hate that you feel lonely and down! And I so hear you! In my me opinion, I don't think you can talk this out with a great many gay and lesbian people, they maybe don't get it, and that's okay, as that's not a sentiment that's meant to war, but just be truthful. We went and listened to a Q&A by Miss Majors and her stance is that the trans community has to separate itself from the GLB community (which is difficult) in order to reach its own goals, as the GLB community has very different goals and this often conflicts a great deal (and perhaps why there is always in-fighting and really protective, however attacking stances, back and forth between primarily gay and trans communities). Yet this makes for a lonelier existence in ways, because despite befriending whoever, you really can't connect on certain issues with people unless they too are experiencing just that and that is really difficult to find, I think because of the diversity, you noted, within the trans community. So what does one do?

I am rambling, but I wish we had more groups for significant others to just talk. I don't know about the labels discussion, as I am really done with labels lately. And also I just hands down believe that self-identity is self-identity and that potential for empowerment loses personal and political power when folks try to slice it all up. Yeah, I think anyone can be anything they want, and that is that. However, a person's actions perhaps are more important to critique if any actual change is going to come from the issues one has with one's behavior. And as with any other id, transensual is going to be what it is to any given person. Objectification is going to feel objectifying depending on how a person feels in whatever situation is objectifying. Relationships don't work if objectification is a problem two people cannot get past, that seems to be a given.

I think too, again, you have conflicting interests in the GLB and Trans communities, perhaps. Or maybe this is just me, but it feels that way certainly. I can't identify from a lesbian context--I am not a lesbian and to claim the identity is disrespectful and privileged to do so. I can't identify or relate to lesbians who do date males, as I can't imagine the dilemma there for certain couples with respect to that identity--it is a challenge I imagine in a number of ways. I date guys, always have, and am not pansexual in any sense. I do get frustrated with it often being assumed that I am omni-or pansexual because of my femme identity. I also get frustrated with it being assumed that I am inherently lesbian when I am not. That is not in anyway a diss to lesbians, I just can't fit into the identity, because even the occasional times I have dated females, well, it didn't work. I know this about myself, despite how heteronormative it feels/is and despite how it situates me in the queer community.

I am really tired, too, of utilizing the internet for information. I have a busy schedule and only spend a few hours a week online. I want a more social avenue, really. Some girlfriends who can lunch and talk this stuff out. So move here, k? Or we will maybe move there?

I ask you, or anyone, do you have any groups? What are they like? Are they helpful? I have had a hell of time finding them here, and nothing that is significant other specific. Because I would like to bond with other partners if possible, as I think that would be healthy and helpful. Just me. If I have the time, at some point, I may very well start a group. As prevalent as the trans community is in Austin, it's not very visible--seems to work a great deal behind the scenes and understandably so. Gender variance is one thing, and there is a lot of visibility for the gender queer here, but again, that doesn't exactly fit us, when it comes to just getting social acquaintances that get where Dylan and I are coming from. For me, there are femme groups, but that doesn't really hit the nail on the head either, and I am really frustrated with femme anyway lately, as a label for me. It feels restrictive, is difficult to bond in, and well, doesn't really empower me or fit me anymore. Dylan and I have been contemplating moving, and even to Houston, because there is a larger community there, and more resources. Austin is really restrictive in a great many ways, because it isn't urban enough to have a great deal of non-profit agency, per se for your smaller "minorities" despite its claiming that it does so. There isn't even really a GLBT center here, per se. Austin also purports to be so "queer" friendly that we all just intermix and live as Austinites, which is just simply not true. Austin kind of approaches race that way too, failing to remind itself that it still segregates daily. We would love to get out of Texas but timing for us on that just makes it impossible at this point in time--I have a new job and Dylan is all over the place with work. Again, sorry, I think I am rambling.

I don't know, it can be frustrating, right?