"Becoming Chaz"

[AtLast]

Originally Posted by June

I haven't watched the documentary yet, but I have seen clips and read numerous interviews.

What I try to keep in mind is that just because Chaz is famous based on celebrity parents, does not mean that he is highly evolved or has done a lot of work with regards to sexism, et al.

It is pretty alarming to read "I don't have as much patience and I tune my girlfriend out because I am not interested in gossip anymore" (that is a paraphrase from an article I read) among other things -- And I didn't know too much about him before, but frankly, that made me think less of him, but also hopeful as he comes into more contact with men and their partners who have made this journey, he will become more sensitive and aware that being a man isn't just assuming, emulating or assimilating stereotypical "masculine" traits and that being a loving, caring, evolved human being should be the ultimate goal, regardless of gender or sex. Added bonus if your outside matches your inside and you feel more comfortable with yourself.

I am glad this is happening publicly though, because it is creating a lot of dialogue that wouldn't have otherwise happened. I try to put myself in the shoes of his mother, if my son came out to me as a woman, as much as I love and support him, it would also be a huge change for me, and I suspect I would have a grieving process of some kind before being able to move forward. I'd like to say I wouldn't miss a beat, but I know in my heart that's not true.

You are being very candid, June and I admire you for this- as much as my mother loved me and supported my being lesbian, she had a few "beats" to deal with and I think that is just plain human. The sexism displayed by Chaz is nothing new, unfortunately. No, it is the acceptance and rolling it into T effects that is nothing new. And I think this hurts Transmen and is an affront to them.

I get really tired of the T-blaming with this and feel that it is quite a negative view of transmen. Adolescent self-absorption does not justify sexist attitudes and behaviors- not for anyone. I certainly had many discussions with my son about this growing up. In fact, he came to me during adolescence and was the child of two alcoholics and a neglectful mother that due to her own abuse background, surrounded herself with abusive misogynists that my son viewed for many years as male role models. There was a lot to undo- it wasn't teen angst and puberty propagating sexism for him!

Also, grieving the loss of gender of a child, parent, sibling, friend, partner is an area of our whole response to transitioning that I think gets swept aside as the trans person's experiences become the main event. This bothers me a lot because we humans are "not islands." I know that even as trans supportive as I am, if my son transitioned, it would be difficult for me in some ways and I would grieve the loss of him as a male. Not very PC of me, I know, but truthful. Frankly, I would be concerned and scared about any possible health risks that could arise for him as well as just the usual fear of having someone you love undergo surgeries under anesthesia. I would deal with these things on my own and seek help for myself (not put my fears on him), but I know I would have these feelings. I also know that I would support him in every way possible.

Throughout the years with the (unfortunately) public trials of Chaz and his celebrity parents, I have felt there was a lot of self-absorption and immaturity. But, there are many Hollywood children that appear to be indulged, and end up doing some very self -destructive things (talking about drugs, alcohol, not transitioning). All ending up in the public eye- which in and of itself seems to add to the mess. For years, Chaz's weight struggles have been blasted all over the tube (he even was on the Biggest Loser), for example. Frankly, it seems like when he was female (to the outside world), these weight comments were common and worse- hummm… what does this say about weight issues and women as opposed to men? Now, his transitioning.

Part of me wonders just how much he really wanted such a public display of his life... yet, again. Or, did he just feel that no matter what he felt and wanted, there was no escape? So, he might as well let the cameras roll. There is just something in his defensive posturing (that was also part of Chastity that I remember) that always gives me pause. Something in his eyes that just felt/feels both angry and sad- even now that he has been able to transition. Maybe this will dissipate as he is able to live his life as who he always has been. I hope so.

I am happy that the trans community has found this documentary to be positive. But, I hope that Chaz finally just gets to have his own life. But, I don't see that happening and I think this is something Hollywood celebrity) kids pay a very high price for.- having a life.

I don’t know if other folks have done any searches online and run across some of the blogs, etc. by the general public about this documentary and Chaz- I have and it is upsetting. Very upsetting- most of them are in response not only to the documentary, but the appearances on shows like Piers Morgan and Joy Behar. The same old gender-ignorance in comments along with a lot of horrible comments about his obesity. Some really ugly things being said. Seeing this hurts and makes me wonder if there is any way to educate the general public about this at all. But, I have no idea how representative these are really. I would really like to see links that are to positive reactions from outside the LGBTIQ community. Please, post some if you have seen them. I can’t take any more of the kind I keep seeing. There is such a long way yet to go.

[theoddz]

Transitioning really is a steady, ongoing process. Sometimes, it's just damned hard.

Most of us who do it drag our life's baggage, for better or worse, into this and it's up to each individual to do the work and evolve into the man/woman we choose to be. There are also people out there who come into this with some pretty damaged souls. Some of us don't have very good mentors, if we have any at all, and others of us, like myself, have outstanding ones (my Pop, who, after 81 years of life, has found himself mentoring a son). Coming to terms with my own baggage and my own "damage" from living 45 years in a shell that was never mine has given me a lot to work through....and I'm hardly done yet. I have worked through a lot of anger, towards society and my family and I still am working through it, but I have never used Testosterone as an excuse for any bad behavior I've been guilty of. Sometimes, I guess, I'm just an asshole and perhaps just guilty of not using much self control, but that has to do with my being a human being with faults and flaws, and I totally own that. Testosterone has never been the cause of it.

Transition lasts a lifetime for so many of us. You can beat us up for attitudes that result from our confusion, or because we just haven't worked through them, or even because we're just basically misguided or you can keep talking to us and help us through our processing and "healing" to be better, more enlightened men and women. Some transfolks are lucky to have a loving and supportive community, either in real time or here online. There are also tons of people who are transitioning with no community whatsoever and are having to navigate through transition the best they know how by themselves. I have to say that I'm a pretty lucky guy to have you all here. From what was shown on the documentary, Chaz appears to have a pretty good support system in place for him. I think this will fare him very well.

I think what is really going to be interesting, and probably pretty joyful, is seeing what Chaz does and perhaps another interview or film in the upcoming years. I have a feeling that things are going to come around just fine for him and that he's going to grow/evolve to be a pretty good fellow and role model (spokesman). I certainly wish that for him and look forward to seeing him become even happier with his life in the years to come.

~Theo~

[Leigh]

Originally Posted by atomiczombie

I can totally see how that can be interpreted that way, which is why words need to be chosen very carefully when talking about these kinds of subjects. I think I understand what Chaz was trying to say, at least I think so. When I went on T and started on my full dose back in November, I was just shocked at how high my sex drive went. I have never experienced anything like that in my life. It was actually overwhelming for me. I imagine that is what Chaz was getting at. However, no amount of hormone-driven sex drive justifies bad behavior, especially rape. But I honestly do not think that Chaz was trying to justify anything, just making note of how much his sex drive changed on the T.

When I first started My T, and I'm not even on a full dose yet, I noticed that My sex drive went through the roof ~ its also not something I was used to so it threw Me off and at first I kinda pushed the increased sexual thoughts aside because I still was not used to wanting it that much (or even at all). I think now that I've gotten more used to the increase I'm celebrating more the fact that I even have a sex drive. I agree that just because you have a heightened sex drive does *NOT* mean you can sexually abuse/assault/rape anyone .......... even just to use that as an excuse is appaling and there is no reason for it. I know thats not what Chaz was saying, and I get where he was coming from but you do have to choose your words carefully no matter what gender you are

Originally Posted by Linus

I think one of the things that the doc does poorly is maintain the idea that T is the cause of all the anger, frustration, "personality changes", etc. Personality stays the same but we tend to attribute it to T when in fact it was always there. We just ignored it or downplayed it.

I kinda shook My head here too, cuz I thought why would you try and justify that stuff on the hormones when thats not it at all

[Rockinonahigh]

On the morning news It said Chaz will be on Dr.Drew either tonight or tomorrow..Should be intresting to see what Dr.Drew comes up with.
One thing I noticesd on the Piers Morgan show was that there is some unease going on between Chaz and Jen,corse haveing been on so many
shows may be getting to be a bit much.After watching them as well as seeing the body language I wonder if they will be together in a year...I get she is a bit snippy about how she deals with all of this and chaz reminds me of a hormone driven teenager(from The T shots) I gess its normal or maybe a change on dosage will still do the job and chill him a bit.