I am... and I prefer the term...

[DapperButch]

Originally Posted by June

Payback's a Bitch.

*Looking over at the What do you like on your sandwich Poll*


Smirking,

June

It really, really fucking is!

Never again!

[DapperButch]

Ok, so I realized that I left out something rather important in the OP to explain the question.

I said:

I am wondering if how we identify impacts what term we like to use when referring to people who are born with XY chromosomes ("males") and XX chromosomes ("females").

It was half a sentence. The whole sentence should read:

I am wondering if how we identify impacts what term we like to use when referring to people who are born with XY chromosomes ("males") and XX chromosomes ("females") who feel that they were born in the right body.

Does that help?

Linus, is it possible to add that to the first post?

[Linus]

Originally Posted by DapperButch

Ok, so I realized that I left out something rather important in the OP to explain the question.

I said:

I am wondering if how we identify impacts what term we like to use when referring to people who are born with XY chromosomes ("males") and XX chromosomes ("females").

It was half a sentence. The whole sentence should read:

I am wondering if how we identify impacts what term we like to use when referring to people who are born with XY chromosomes ("males") and XX chromosomes ("females") who feel that they were born in the right body.

Does that help?

Linus, is it possible to add that to the first post?

Done and adjusted.

[DapperButch]

Originally Posted by Linus

Done and adjusted.

Thank you so much, Linus.

[NJFemmie]

I am ..... ME.

[Kobi]

Having read this over a few times, I am still confused as to what it is asking.

I am a lesbian who prefers to be called a woman.

I prefer to call others male or female cuz it is simplier.

The only time I tend to want to break it down further is if I am interested
in dating someone.

Is that in one of the poll choices?

[DapperButch]

Originally Posted by Kobi

Having read this over a few times, I am still confused as to what it is asking.

I am a lesbian who prefers to be called a woman.

I prefer to call others male or female cuz it is simplier.

The only time I tend to want to break it down further is if I am interested
in dating someone.

Is that in one of the poll choices?

Hi, Kobi.

The poll is asking

1) how you define

2) what you prefer to call people who are non trans. non trans meaning a person who is born into the correct body. Those people would fit the definition of the term cissexed and the other choices given.

There has been a push from the transsexed/transsexual/trans community to use the term cissexed. There has been some push back from non trans people. I am wondering people's preferences.

[Sparkle]

I think that one of the privileges I experience as a Femme, who has never had conflict with the gender characteristics I was born with, is that I haven't had to give this issue much thought.

I simply have no preference, outside of conversations on here or very specific conversations about gender/gender identity/societal expectations etc. with friends, there is no reason for me to refer to my gender identity as cis, bio or XX.

I wonder... as we continue to explore gender identity and particularly as we push the conversation further in to the mainstream - perhaps (???) we should be on the same page with the terminology that we use when discussing Trans issues, with the realization that discussing the Trans experience may require we compare and contrast it to the __(cis/bio/XX)__ experience.

Should we?

Thanks Dapper, your poll has made me examine my privilege.

I still don't have a preference for one term over another, none feel *right* to me ... but perhaps I should really think about how best to articulate the concept.

[DapperButch]

Originally Posted by Sparkle

I think that one of the privileges I experience as a Femme, who has never had conflict with the gender characteristics I was born with, is that I haven't had to give this issue much thought.

I simply have no preference, outside of conversations on here or very specific conversations about gender/gender identity/societal expectations etc. with friends, there is no reason for me to refer to my gender identity as cis, bio or XX.

I wonder... as we continue to explore gender identity and particularly as we push the conversation further in to the mainstream - perhaps (???) we should be on the same page with the terminology that we use when discussing Trans issues, with the realization that discussing the Trans experience may require we compare and contrast it to the __(cis/bio/XX)__ experience.

Should we?

Thanks Dapper, your poll has made me examine my privilege.

I still don't have a preference for one term over another, none feel *right* to me ... but perhaps I should really think about how best to articulate the concept.

Thanks, Sparkle. I appreciate your post.

I did a poor introduction to the topic, but this is where I was trying to go.

It may have made more sense for me to put it into the trans section, but I didn't want to exclude the rest of the site.

When the site first opened a couple of transsexed folks encouraged the use of the term cissexed when speaking about non trans people. I have had some discomfort with the term, but have continuously come up against this memory of preference every time I want to refer to someone who is non trans. I have always said bio male, for example, but now I hesitate with what to use, as I have heard transsexed individuals not like the use of that term. So, that is why I started going with XY male.

It does go back to privilege, I think. And who decides what term to use? You know?

Thanks again, Sparkle.

[greeneyedgrrl]

Originally Posted by DapperButch

It does go back to privilege, I think. And who decides what term to use? You know?

I totally agree! Transsexual/transgendered was not a label that was originally introduced by the people whom it was intended to label; it was a label assigned to people by the dominant culture who had the ability to force a label onto a group of people. I think that the only reason this is a debate right now is b/c cis attempts to label non-trans folks in a way that doesn't set us up as the norm, and the discomfort comes from it not feeling like the "normal" id. i needed a lot of dialogue around it before i felt like i understood and was comfortable using it, privilege can easily be discounted by those who have it.

[Billy]

This poll to ME doesn't make sense ......Because I never saw Myself as female at all , I always saw Myself as male .....And everytime I turn around there is a new word or ID for this or that .....What the fuck is a transsexed ?

[DapperButch]

Originally Posted by Billy

This poll to ME doesn't make sense ......Because I never saw Myself as female at all , I always saw Myself as male .....And everytime I turn around there is a new word or ID for this or that .....What the fuck is a transsexed ?

Transsexed = transsexual. Some transpeople do not like the term transsexual, so I used the term transsexed out of respect.

[Kobi]

Originally Posted by DapperButch

Hi, Kobi.

The poll is asking

1) how you define

2) what you prefer to call people who are non trans. non trans meaning a person who is born into the correct body. Those people would fit the definition of the term cissexed and the other choices given.

There has been a push from the transsexed/transsexual/trans community to use the term cissexed. There has been some push back from non trans people. I am wondering people's preferences.

Hi Dapper,

Maybe my confusion is my choice isnt listed.

I define as female/woman and I prefer to refer to others as male/man or female/woman minus the clarification of how one got there.

[DapperButch]

Originally Posted by Kobi

Hi Dapper,

Maybe my confusion is my choice isnt listed.

I define as female/woman and I prefer to refer to others as male/man or female/woman minus the clarification of how one got there.

Hi, Kobi. My guess is you define as a female identified butch, correct?

The second part of the question is if you call people who do not identify as trans, cissexed, bio male or bio female, or xy male and xx female in conversation.

[BullDog]

I don't know about Kobi, but I am a butch woman. I don't identify as a female identified butch. I don't use that language. To me female is my biological sex not my gender. I don't like the classification scheme where people divide butches up based on female-identified vs. male identified.

[Kobi]

Originally Posted by DapperButch

Hi, Kobi. My guess is you define as a female identified butch, correct?

The second part of the question is if you call people who do not identify as trans, cissexed, bio male or bio female, or xy male and xx female in conversation.

Dapper,

Sparkle's post rang true to me and may explain why I am having so much difficulty with this.

I never experienced a discrepancy between the internal and external manifestations of my gender. I am a female/woman. The struggles others may experience in this area was never part of my experience or mindset or thought process.

I also never experienced any discrepancy between my gender and my sexual orientation. I am a lesbian. It never occured to me to have to or want to define myself as male or female identified. It's kind of like what part of lesbian isnt clear?

The only discrepancies I have run into are the ones where my sense of who I am as a woman and a lesbian conflict with societal expectations/definitions/labels of what a woman and lesbian are.

I feel the same discrepancy within the queer subculture which seems more comfortable using labels/concepts that dont fit who I am as a way to define who I am for whatever purpose it may serve.

In my everyday life, I refer to myself as a lesbian which implies both my gender and sexual orientation. I rarely have the need to label it further.

In everyday life, I refer to others as male or female. It never occured to me to define or have the need to define their journey to male or female. After my exposure to gender issues/discussions on this site, it still seemed more respectful, to me, to refer to the end product, so to speak, rather than the journey when dealing with individuals. Maybe I need to rethink this.

I do see how on a societal level, agreeing on acceptable terms/label/descriptors would be helpful in furthering gender exploration/development/possibilites and integrating them into the prevailing binary system.