I am... and I prefer the term...

[DapperButch]

Originally Posted by ALovelyKiss

I edited DB's OP and narrowed the focus to what I would like to respond to:

If I understand the parameters you have set forth above, the meaning of the prefix "cis-", to me, implies dominant socially held norms - connoting a heteronormative stance. Simply put: "Cis-sex" - again, to me - means that I identify wholly with the biological order I was born into. I am female - the female of the species. However, my using the term "cis-sex" is not to be confused or conflated to mean anything that might be associated with "cis-sexual," as use of the term cis-sexual, to me, implies that a person identifies with dominant socially held views about sexual orientation exhibiting heteronormative dimensions. To clarify further on the terms "cis-sex" and "cis-sexual" - I am not comfortable nor do I prefer to identify wholly with either term - except that for the fact that I am comfortable with being female.

However, the non-violent anarchist in me parts ways with the term "cis-gendered" because I do not identify with dominant socially held views of performative gender, because gender is performed in socialized ways: For example, if I were to say that I am a woman, then as a woman, I might take on the behaviors of what being a woman means at a macro (larger scaled) level. But at a micro- level, I don't take on all the typical, generally understood, aspects of what being a woman means.


To me, I wonder all the time about the problematic issues that seemingly are tied to terms of identity and tinker with my own perception held about said terms and the interconnections between identity, power, privilege and control (social or personal).

Any narrowing or expanding of the discussion is appreciated!

Great post. I really appreciate what you wrote above and hear what you are saying here. It makes sense to me.

In the same way, that is why I believe some transpeople are preferring transsexed over transsexual, because it is about their sex (similar to the intersexed population, as Ender mentioned).

I do wonder if we will see the definition of these terms change or shift overtime (or narrow or open) as we have seen the many definitions connected to transgender.

[Daywalker]

Gender Neutral ~ Butch ~> Hippy

Originally Posted by a quick ref for those unfamiliar with the GN term ~ certainly only one of many ways to describe it

Free of explicit or implicit reference to gender or sex, as is the
term police officer (instead of policewoman or policeman)
or the term crewed (instead of manned).

ie; Have always used Child or kid in place of the Girl/Boy when
referencing myself in tales of my youngest years. While I can
acknowlegde both, I don't see either. Been that way as long
as I can remember. Within our Community I have preferenced
Hy for pronoun but I don't machete peoples day to
pieces if out in the Gen Pop I get she'd.

I don't actually think while meandering though life that
I present with either. But that's my perception,
the personal one. I just don't run mah
world according to Gender
(or Garp, great flick).

There's been a time or three I've had the audacity to allow my mind
to be fancied with an internal philosophical circus rambling...one of
them includes the preposterous idea that if Females and Males were
equal in the Physical strength arena from the beginning of our
Species, how much different things would be today.

It could take me on hours of pondering through all the
leaves n branches of that Hypothetical Hooplah.

Anyway, now I've completely fogotten what I
was gonna post in the first place.

Crap.

I'm wiped out today, what with fighting the
vacuum vortex Rapture tunnels n all.

Surely the thought will find its way back.

[BullDog]

I do realize the conversation has been more heavily weighted towards identity than which terms are preferred and this is frustrating to some people. However, I actually do think there is a reason this is occurring.

I think one of the reasons why so many queers have issues with the terms cisgender and cissexed is because many of us don't believe our gender and sex and the relationship between the two is all that clear cut or straight forward. I believe that's one of the reasons why we have so many different identities and why they aren't so easy to classify. So when it is suggested that our sex or gender is in alignment with what is socially acceptable many of us chafe at that idea.

As to polls, Linus tried to start one on religion and even after he maxxed out people still were coming up with more. There was also a little scuffle on whether or not Catholics were considered Christians. Oh and I was one of the pain in the ass people asking whether mustard could be considered a sandwich spread (as opposed to Sandwich Spread) in the great Mayo-Miracle Whip debate. Queers can be a pain in the ass.

[Martina]

i am femme, and i use cisgendered or cismale or cisfemale because Dylan basically talked me into, it thread after thread. i was convinced that while there is a spectrum of discomfort with assigned gender, at some point there is a difference between those of us who can live with the loose fit of how we experience ourselves and the gender category assigned to us and those who never could and never will be able to.

[Rockinonahigh]

Ive sorta read thrue this thred and im more confused that when I started.So in that light I will say that im osof stone butch who over the years have mellowed out about all this labeling buisness..if the shoe fits wear it with pride as well as being all who u want to be in your life.Remember life changes,I am a testimonial to that.I agree with Mr.Day on so many levals...right on.

[julieisafemme]

I agree with Martina. I have never in all my years experienced a moment of dysphoria or confusion regarding my body and my internal experience of gender. The binary is bad if it is the only thing used to define gender. BUT some people do fit into that binary in a gender sense. I am as cissexed and cisgendered as you can get! This became even more clear to me in talking to my partner about his experience of his gender as a child. My queerness is directly related to who I want to partner with. That is the only way I break the expected behavior for my gender really. I meet the societal expectations of my gender as well. I see it like this:

Do you feel aligned with your biological sex and your assigned gender?

Do you also, for the most part, meet the societal expectations of that gender?

If so, you could be cisgendered.

Bulldog I know you might agree with the first question but would not agree with the second. So it makes sense to me that you not define yourself as cisgendered/sexed. But can you see based on my questions and my answers of yes to both that the term fits quite well for me? It is very specific in how it differentiates my experience of gender from that of my partner's. That is why I like it so much.

[BullDog]

Originally Posted by julieisafemme

I agree with Martina. I have never in all my years experienced a moment of dysphoria or confusion regarding my body and my internal experience of gender. The binary is bad if it is the only thing used to define gender. BUT some people do fit into that binary in a gender sense. I am as cissexed and cisgendered as you can get! This became even more clear to me in talking to my partner about his experience of his gender as a child. My queerness is directly related to who I want to partner with. That is the only way I break the expected behavior for my gender really. I meet the societal expectations of my gender as well. I see it like this:

Do you feel aligned with your biological sex and your assigned gender?

Do you also, for the most part, meet the societal expectations of that gender?

If so, you could be cisgendered.

Bulldog I know you might agree with the first question but would not agree with the second. So it makes sense to me that you not define yourself as cisgendered/sexed. But can you see based on my questions and my answers of yes to both that the term fits quite well for me? It is very specific in how it differentiates my experience of gender from that of my partner's. That is why I like it so much.

Do you feel aligned with your biological sex and your assigned gender?

I feel I am a female and woman, but no I am not aligned in the way I was assigned to it by my society and culture. I have done my own self alignment.

If the terms fit for you then of course I respect your opinion of yourself and your life experiences.

[AtLast]

snip-

[QUOTE=BullDog;344115]

I think one of the reasons why so many queers have issues with the terms cisgender and cissexed is because many of us don't believe our gender and sex and the relationship between the two is all that clear cut or straight forward. I believe that's one of the reasons why we have so many different identities and why they aren't so easy to classify. So when it is suggested that our sex or gender is in alignment with what is socially acceptable many of us chafe at that idea.

QUOTE] snip

No, it isn't for me at all- not clear-cut. Not even close. That is why it is important to be open to new data and theory that finally takes into consideration how gender and sex is very complex.

When I talk with my intergendered cousin and her experiences throughout her 70 plus years- I am completely humbled when it comes to this entire topic.