Here come the lesbians, here come the leaping lesbians...

[ScandalAndy]

Originally Posted by apocalipstic

What exactly are we supposed to discuss if issues concerning our community are not acceptable? Are there certain areas of being a Lesbian you would like to see?

Even the person who started this thread is not a Lesbian.....so really I would think we can talk about whatever we want to?

To me, Butch Lesbians are Lesbians.

Maybe report the thread if you don't like the content?

I don't understand the problem.

To me, this has been a Lesbian discussion of long standing.

Originally Posted by Heart

I don't think Jess was debating, I think Jess was speaking to issues related to the Butch Voices controversy that is being discussed here by lesbians.

Sheesh.

Originally Posted by Slater

If there was a detailed discussion of the term butch and who it does or doesn't include, then I would definitely agree with you that this wasn't the best place for it because this forum would not naturally include some of the stakeholders in such a discussion. Hopefully I have not misunderstood your objection.

But to me it seems like this discussion is mostly about feeling out where the areas of contention are -- defining the issues that need to be addressed, rather than trying to address them. And while I think this certainly could take places in other forums, I don't think it's out of place here, for two reasons.

First, as Heart mentioned, it centers around erasing the female-identified (and largely lesbian-identified) butches and all that is implied in that. But beyond that, I think lesbian-identified femmes have a stake in this too. Even though it is a butch organization, the manner in which it (or any organization in our community) addresses questions/problems around sexism and female leadership and participation is relevant to both butches and femmes.

My understanding from the posts in this thread is that it is a place to proudly identify as a lesbian and find others who identify as such too. As of right now, however, it has degenerated into a "bitch about Butch Voices" thread, which, as I said before and still stand by, I believe would be best served in it's own thread instead of derailing this one.

As for Jess's comment, I was solely intending to use that to counter Heart's objection that discussion about what the term "butch" meant was not happening, when clearly it was.

I think the discussion about BV is important, like I said, I just don't think this was the right thread for it.

[OS Butch]

Seems to me that lesbians, butch, femme, purple whatever the flavor, in a discussion about anything is a good thing. Since this thread started, May 2010 to Jul 11, 2011 there had been 97 posts. Since yesterday, 57 additional posts. Looks great to me. As a butch lesbian, I am enjoying reading what these folks have taken the time to post.

Originally Posted by ScandalAndy

My understanding from the posts in this thread is that it is a place to proudly identify as a lesbian and find others who identify as such too. As of right now, however, it has degenerated into a "bitch about Butch Voices" thread, which, as I said before and still stand by, I believe would be best served in it's own thread instead of derailing this one.

As for Jess's comment, I was solely intending to use that to counter Heart's objection that discussion about what the term "butch" meant was not happening, when clearly it was.

I think the discussion about BV is important, like I said, I just don't think this was the right thread for it.

[ScandalAndy]

Originally Posted by OS Butch

Seems to me that lesbians, butch, femme, purple whatever the flavor, in a discussion about anything is a good thing. Since this thread started, May 2010 to Jul 11, 2011 there had been 97 posts. Since yesterday, 57 additional posts. Looks great to me. As a butch lesbian, I am enjoying reading what these folks have taken the time to post.

sounds good, have at it! I don't really care, I was just pointing out that the title and intro post have nothing to do with the current convo and do not help to direct individuals to it.

[dykeumentary]

Originally Posted by ScandalAndy

sounds good, have at it! I don't really care, I was just pointing out that the title and intro post have nothing to do with the current convo and do not help to direct individuals to it.

Hey Scandalandy, if you don't really care, then why try to be "thread police"? I was the one who bought up this topic in this thread. I neither cared about the intro post nor 'directing people to it'.

It's here, we are discussing it.

Also, I am disappointed with your characterization about our discussion as a "biitch about butch voices thread". I find that language sexist and offensive. Additionally, I call-out anti-lesbian actions wherever and whenever I see it-- on the street, in a bar, anywhere. I certainly don't need to "find a thread" that you or anyone might feel is more appropriate.

It's clear that emotions are running hot on this issue. What is your motivation for being traffic cop?

[dykeumentary]

Originally Posted by ScandalAndy

My understanding from the posts in this thread is that it is a place to proudly identify as a lesbian and find others who identify as such too. As of right now, however, it has degenerated into a "bitch about Butch Voices" thread, which, as I said before and still stand by, I believe would be best served in it's own thread instead of derailing this one.

i "identify as such".

[BullDog]

I still don't understand why people don't get why some of us feel the need and desire to have a Lesbian Zone (which is also of course open to Friends and Allies posting in) on a Butch Femme website to discuss issues of interest to lesbians or issues from a lesbian perspective. I seriously don't get it.

My difficulties with Butch Voices and the way I was treated by them had everything to do with the fact that I am a Butch Woman and Lesbian, so it makes perfect sense to me to discuss it in the Lesbian Zone. If it doesn't for others, you can always discuss it elsewhere. Or not.

I was a little puzzled when Liam started this thread since I had just started mine, but I do believe he started it to help bring visibility to lesbians when Kobi was new and trying to find her way here and wondering where the lesbians were. Linus also wanted to help Kobi out and I think that had a lot to do with the Lesbian Zone being created in the first place.

I actually started my thread on Lesbians/Dykes because people were wondering where the lesbians or lesbian threads were as well- different people, different thread than where Kobi was wondering. There wasn't a Lesbian Zone yet. I can't remember where I put it. Anyway Linus moved it to the Lesbian Zone. I was happy the Zone was created and that my thread was moved.

[Chazz]

Originally Posted by BullDog

I still don't understand why people don't get why some of us feel the need and desire to have a Lesbian Zone (which is also of course open to Friends and Allies posting in) on a Butch Femme website to discuss issues of interest to lesbians or issues from a lesbian perspective. I seriously don't get it....

Because we're suppose to be big tent people and just assimilate into other people's world view and characterizations of us, silly.

Talking among ourselves about issues of importance to us in a space of our own - how exclusive and discriminatory.