![]() |
|
![]() |
#1 | |
Member
How Do You Identify?:
Femme Relationship Status:
rainbows! Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: NY
Posts: 466
Thanks: 303
Thanked 2,522 Times in 409 Posts
Rep Power: 12032610 ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() Quote:
|
|
![]() |
![]() |
The Following 9 Users Say Thank You to Heart For This Useful Post: |
![]() |
#2 |
Pink Confection
How Do You Identify?:
Femme Preferred Pronoun?:
She, Her, Ma'am Relationship Status:
Dating Myself Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Nashville
Posts: 4,266
Thanks: 17,195
Thanked 11,362 Times in 2,838 Posts
Rep Power: 21474856 ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]()
This is such a great discussion.
I was younger I was way more actively pro-woman than I am not....to the point of being anti-man. There has to be a balance. Things seem so extreme. If Lesbian is not the term for women loving women, then is there a term? Does it make us less for wanting a term to describe ourselves?
__________________
![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Apocalipstic For This Useful Post: |
![]() |
#3 | |
Member
How Do You Identify?:
cisBUTCH Preferred Pronoun?:
hey Relationship Status:
Single - gave up the farce Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: New York
Posts: 265
Thanks: 103
Thanked 756 Times in 189 Posts
Rep Power: 8194252 ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() Quote:
It is as follows: That masculine butches (me), be allowed (perchance, encouraged) to reconcile with our woman/female selves after years (in some cases, a lifetime) of self-estrangement. And that, that self-reconciliation be celebrated, discussed and parsed, and NOT SEEN AS DISAVOWING, NEGATING, OR OPPRESSING ANYONE ELSE. This is something I have been struggling with on my own; it would be nice to find some lesbian/butch kindred spirits. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#4 | |
Infamous Member
How Do You Identify?:
Biological female. Lesbian. Relationship Status:
Happy ![]() Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Hanging out in the Atlantic.
Posts: 9,234
Thanks: 9,840
Thanked 34,636 Times in 7,642 Posts
Rep Power: 21474861 ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() Quote:
Whoa, sometimes truths just blow me away in a good way. This is something, I too, am finding to be necessary at this stage of my life. Maybe its part of why I have this need to reclaim my lesbianism in a very vocal, public way. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Kobi For This Useful Post: |
![]() |
#5 | |
Member
How Do You Identify?:
cisBUTCH Preferred Pronoun?:
hey Relationship Status:
Single - gave up the farce Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: New York
Posts: 265
Thanks: 103
Thanked 756 Times in 189 Posts
Rep Power: 8194252 ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() Quote:
![]() It's been real tough trying to find butch kindred spirits to this end. There's been a headlong rush towards masculinizing "butch", draining it of femaleness, and affirming male IDed people. I got swept up in this, myself, with some help from partners. Hell, I had three consecutive partners insist I was a "Stone". (Been in EMDR therapy and guess what, I'm not.) Whether anyone wants to acknowledge it or not, femaleness/womanhood has been situated on a lower rung on the neo-butch hierarchy. Except, when femaleness/womanhood applies to MtoFs. I SEE THIS EVERYWHERE IN THE COMMUNITY ! ! ! ! I do see reclaiming lesbianism (sexual orientation) as somewhat different than (though, related) with reclaiming my womanhood/femaleness (biology - not gender). I have to find the words to express this. (Chazz, keep it simple, stupid ![]() |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#6 | |
Timed Out - Permanent
How Do You Identify?:
decidedly indifferent Preferred Pronoun?:
other Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Patrick Springs, VA
Posts: 2,812
Thanks: 9,247
Thanked 5,700 Times in 1,682 Posts
Rep Power: 0 ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() Quote:
I am stone. Of this I have no doubt. I still have issues with my female form ( and probably always will to some degree). I am a woman and without that and some sense of pride in that, I cannot experience and LIVE my lesbian pride. Without that, I can also not live my butch pride. So, while these re-claimings may be different, they do operate simultaneously for me. I also see feminist theory as the only way we ( the whole enchilada) can make strides against and hopefully see an end to the marginalization of ANY group of persons with common traits. I am sometimes short sighted and very much appreciate reminders. Thank you Heart for the tireless efforts in keeping us aware. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#7 |
Infamous Member
How Do You Identify?:
Dominant Stone Butch Daddy Preferred Pronoun?:
She Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: In A Healing Place
Posts: 5,371
Thanks: 18,160
Thanked 22,666 Times in 4,464 Posts
Rep Power: 21474856 ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]()
I am a proud lesbian and proud butch woman. I always have been. Other people's personal definitions of themselves do not threaten me. There are all different types of lesbians, women and butches. I celebrate that.
As far as reconciling butch, woman, female and lesbian, for a short time I felt some distance from woman. I thought that I was always politically aligned with woman but that perhaps it wasn't so much my gender. That my gender was simply butch. However, quite frankly that was just me over thinking gender and straying from woman- however temporarily and partial that may have been- robbed me of some of my strength and connection with other women. I came back to fully embracing woman and for me it is quite empowering. It is my connection to all women- past, present and future. It is my birthright and central to my day to day lived reality. It is also my fervent hope as a non-conforming and butch woman to help expand the possibilities of what woman is and can be, just as I have been enriched and inspired by all the brave women who have come before me. Certainly being a lesbian is completely tied into all this as well. It is at the core of me being butch.
__________________
Love consists in this, that two solitudes protect and touch and greet each other. - Rainer Maria Rilke |
![]() |
![]() |
The Following 9 Users Say Thank You to BullDog For This Useful Post: |
![]() |
#8 | |||
Pink Confection
How Do You Identify?:
Femme Preferred Pronoun?:
She, Her, Ma'am Relationship Status:
Dating Myself Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Nashville
Posts: 4,266
Thanks: 17,195
Thanked 11,362 Times in 2,838 Posts
Rep Power: 21474856 ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() Quote:
![]() Quote:
Being a woman is hard and as we have been discussing standing up for ourselves seems to be less and less OK. I have been thinking about this lately in general so this really ties in for me. Quote:
Yesterday I was trying to say that Femmes are marginalized too, but I hope in doing so I did not come off sounding like ONLY Femmes are marginalized. I am thrilled beyond belief to see actual Butches who id as Women speak up. Yeay! and I do see how it is important from a Feminist standpoint to call myself Lesbian if I am in fact Lesbian, rather than thinking up cute other names I prefer. ps. This does not however mean I will be listening to Lesbian music ![]()
__________________
![]() ![]() ![]() |
|||
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#9 |
Member
How Do You Identify?:
cisBUTCH Preferred Pronoun?:
hey Relationship Status:
Single - gave up the farce Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: New York
Posts: 265
Thanks: 103
Thanked 756 Times in 189 Posts
Rep Power: 8194252 ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]()
Here's why I feel obliged to say: I see reclaiming lesbianism (sexual orientation) as somewhat different than (though, related) with reclaiming my womanhood/femaleness (biology - not gender)'.
It's important to me to acknowledge that not all lesbians are butches or femmes. That, to me, is Sisterhood. Furthermore, there is an operative in play. That is the, often tacit, assumption that masculine butches are automatically assumed to be male-identified unless they say otherwise. (That may not be the operative in this thread, but it is in many places. It's why I feel obliged to be as succinct as possible.) And, the nouveau construct that a female-bodied person partnered with another female-bodied person, may not be a lesbian. It is a drag to have to issue disclaimers when talking about my identity and my desire for reconciliation, but it's an unfortunate reality when words have been redefined and appropriated by those who do not identity as women or lesbians. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#10 | |
Member
How Do You Identify?:
Human Preferred Pronoun?:
left of right Relationship Status:
right of left Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: ]centered[
Posts: 321
Thanks: 587
Thanked 514 Times in 184 Posts
Rep Power: 2132875 ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]()
My personal reconciliation of self has been perceived by some outside of myself as an abandonment of myself, or an abandonment of who they are in relation to me. My changing, dropping or adding a descriptor for myself doesn't change anyone else. Others change too, and I'm as accepting of that in others as myself.
Quote:
|
|
![]() |
![]() |
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to I'mOneToo For This Useful Post: |
![]() |
#11 | |
Member
How Do You Identify?:
Femme Relationship Status:
rainbows! Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: NY
Posts: 466
Thanks: 303
Thanked 2,522 Times in 409 Posts
Rep Power: 12032610 ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() Quote:
Exposing the marginalization of butch women is very much a feminist issue and part of resisting sexism and misogyny. Apologies if what I said felt at all dismissive. Heart Last edited by Heart; 08-09-2011 at 11:53 AM. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Heart For This Useful Post: |
![]() |
#12 | |
Member
How Do You Identify?:
cisBUTCH Preferred Pronoun?:
hey Relationship Status:
Single - gave up the farce Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: New York
Posts: 265
Thanks: 103
Thanked 756 Times in 189 Posts
Rep Power: 8194252 ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() Quote:
The above post makes me feel hugged by you. Thanks, Heart. It's nice to feel that it's okay to be honest and vulnerable, and to have someone reach out and hug you. I, too, see Feminism as the only effective discourse for addressing "misogyny, sexism, homophobia, ageism. racism, etc....". I've spent ten years searching gender theory for a way to address these issues. It's just not there. Even if everyone REALLY understood the semantical jiujitsu's of gender theory, it's not there. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Chazz For This Useful Post: |
![]() |
|
|