Science and Exploration

[Corkey]

http://games.yahoo.com/blogs/plugged...161920724.html


Gamers crack AIDS puzzle

[Corkey]

Originally Posted by popcorninthesofa

investmentwatchblog.com/was-einstein-wrong-cern-scientists-break-the-speed-of-light

Hey pop could you put this in a link? The earth like thing at the top of the the post page.

[Nat]

Originally Posted by Corkey

Hey pop could you put this in a link? The earth like thing at the top of the the post page.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...0_speed23.html

The linky icon stopped working on my iPhone.

One of the pillars of physics and Albert Einstein's theory of relativity — that nothing can go faster than the speed of light — was rocked Thursday.

European researchers said they clocked an oddball type of subatomic particle called a neutrino going faster than the 186,282 miles per second long been considered the cosmic speed limit.

European researchers said they clocked an oddball type of subatomic particle called a neutrino going faster than the 186,282 miles per second long been considered the cosmic speed limit.

[JAGG]

Ok I have been trying to find some answers, and researching every science website , physics journals and blog I can find but to no avail. So I thought I'd try here why not. I don't expect you to be able to answer my questions but maybe you can point me in the right direction. I have been hunting for 3 days now. Ever since I read the story about the new discovery in physics, that may upset the apple cart so to speak. If you haven't heard, scientist have made a discovery that could change the foundation of physics. Physics as we know it, is pretty much based on the fact that nothing is faster than the speed of light 186,282 miles per second. It has been discovered that neutrinos from a particle accelerator can travel up to 60 nanoseconds faster than the speed of light. If the findings hold true, the fundamental laws of physics would have to be revised. Since are all based on energy equals mass times the speed of light squared. Which has been perfect up until now.
Okay so here is my question or questions.
My first question is, can neutrinos sustain that speed infinitely, as speed of light does?
Also , how fast do neutrinos normally travel without the help of a particle accelerator?

[Softhearted]

Hello Jagg!

These links might interest you and hopefully give you some answers

http://physicsforme.wordpress.com/20...ght-neutrinos/

http://profmattstrassler.com/2011/09...-have-we-here/

[dreadgeek]

Originally Posted by JAGG

Ok I have been trying to find some answers, and researching every science website , physics journals and blog I can find but to no avail. So I thought I'd try here why not. I don't expect you to be able to answer my questions but maybe you can point me in the right direction. I have been hunting for 3 days now. Ever since I read the story about the new discovery in physics, that may upset the apple cart so to speak. If you haven't heard, scientist have made a discovery that could change the foundation of physics. Physics as we know it, is pretty much based on the fact that nothing is faster than the speed of light 186,282 miles per second. It has been discovered that neutrinos from a particle accelerator can travel up to 60 nanoseconds faster than the speed of light. If the findings hold true, the fundamental laws of physics would have to be revised. Since are all based on energy equals mass times the speed of light squared. Which has been perfect up until now.
Okay so here is my question or questions.
My first question is, can neutrinos sustain that speed infinitely, as speed of light does?
Also , how fast do neutrinos normally travel without the help of a particle accelerator?

Jagg:

I'll try to do my very best on this one. The answer to both questions require a little bit of background on what a neutrino is and why whether or not they can exceed the speed of light is an interesting question.

So neutrinos are very small, *very* weakly interacting subatomic particles. They are the result of atomic decay (called beta decay) and are electrically neutral. They are weakly interacting because the two forces that will act on neutrinos are either very weak or very short-range. The first is weak nuclear force which is responsible for atomic decay. It is very short-range falling off to nothing pretty much outside of the range of the nucleus of an atom. The other is gravity which is long range but very weak (gravity seems strong because gravity is caused by mass and the Earth has a LOT of mass but gravity is the weakest of the four foces). How rarely do neutrinos interact with other matter? A neutrino from the sun could pass through the the Earth without *ever* interacting with another particle. This would be true even if the Earth were solid lead and lead is very dense (which is why it's used for shielding)!

The other really interesting thing is that neutrinos have very little mass while not being completely massless. The mass of a neutrino is so small that it is measured in terms of its energy. It is 50 meV (megaelectron volts). To give you an idea of just how small a number this is equivalent to this portion of a gallon of gasoline 0.0000000000000000000607991. (Recall that Einstein demonstrated that you can convert energy to mass) The reason why it is interesting is that if the neutrino were precisely massless it would always travel the speed of light (because anything with zero mass will travel the speed of light). Since the neutrino appears to have a very small, but non-zero mass, this means it can accelerate toward but can never exceed the speed of light.

This is a consequence of the equation e=mc^2 because c^2 is the speed of light (c) squared (^2). Since the speed of light in vacuum is 186,282 miles per second that number squared is huge! To accelerate *anything* with mass to within a sizable portion of c would take infinite energy. Since infinite energy isn't to be had in a finite universe nothing with mass can accelerate beyond the speed of light.

Which takes us to the recent experiment and what it might mean. So, IF it turns out that these neutrinos were accelerated beyond the speed of light then that means that Einstein's special theory of relativity will have to be revised. That said, it's simply too early to tell. Measuring the speed of neutrinos is actually a statistical matter so they look at the number of detections within a certain period of time after the accelerator fires. It may be a measurement error. If so then these experimentalists do botch things sometimes. If, on the other hand, these results are confirmed then the principal researchers are all going to Stockholm to pick up a Nobel.

To answer your two specific questions:

The answer to whether or not the neutrinos can keep up their motion indefinitely, the answer would be yes for a given value of indefinite. Until it interacts with another particle a neutrino at any velocity will continue at that velocity.

As far as the speed of a neutrino under natural conditions they have been detected within the margin of error of the speed of light (so within .999999 percent of c) from sources like a supernova.

Cheers
Aj

[SoNotHer]

In the aftermath of the 2009 Australian bush fires, rare bird and plant species have returned.

http://www.newscientist.com/article/...nt-growth.html

[JAGG]

Originally Posted by dreadgeek

Jagg:

I'll try to do my very best on this one. The answer to both questions require a little bit of background on what a neutrino is and why whether or not they can exceed the speed of light is an interesting question.

So neutrinos are very small, *very* weakly interacting subatomic particles. They are the result of atomic decay (called beta decay) and are electrically neutral. They are weakly interacting because the two forces that will act on neutrinos are either very weak or very short-range. The first is weak nuclear force which is responsible for atomic decay. It is very short-range falling off to nothing pretty much outside of the range of the nucleus of an atom. The other is gravity which is long range but very weak (gravity seems strong because gravity is caused by mass and the Earth has a LOT of mass but gravity is the weakest of the four foces). How rarely do neutrinos interact with other matter? A neutrino from the sun could pass through the the Earth without *ever* interacting with another particle. This would be true even if the Earth were solid lead and lead is very dense (which is why it's used for shielding)!

The other really interesting thing is that neutrinos have very little mass while not being completely massless. The mass of a neutrino is so small that it is measured in terms of its energy. It is 50 meV (megaelectron volts). To give you an idea of just how small a number this is equivalent to this portion of a gallon of gasoline 0.0000000000000000000607991. (Recall that Einstein demonstrated that you can convert energy to mass) The reason why it is interesting is that if the neutrino were precisely massless it would always travel the speed of light (because anything with zero mass will travel the speed of light). Since the neutrino appears to have a very small, but non-zero mass, this means it can accelerate toward but can never exceed the speed of light.

This is a consequence of the equation e=mc^2 because c^2 is the speed of light (c) squared (^2). Since the speed of light in vacuum is 186,282 miles per second that number squared is huge! To accelerate *anything* with mass to within a sizable portion of c would take infinite energy. Since infinite energy isn't to be had in a finite universe nothing with mass can accelerate beyond the speed of light.

Which takes us to the recent experiment and what it might mean. So, IF it turns out that these neutrinos were accelerated beyond the speed of light then that means that Einstein's special theory of relativity will have to be revised. That said, it's simply too early to tell. Measuring the speed of neutrinos is actually a statistical matter so they look at the number of detections within a certain period of time after the accelerator fires. It may be a measurement error. If so then these experimentalists do botch things sometimes. If, on the other hand, these results are confirmed then the principal researchers are all going to Stockholm to pick up a Nobel.

To answer your two specific questions:

The answer to whether or not the neutrinos can keep up their motion indefinitely, the answer would be yes for a given value of indefinite. Until it interacts with another particle a neutrino at any velocity will continue at that velocity.

As far as the speed of a neutrino under natural conditions they have been detected within the margin of error of the speed of light (so within .999999 percent of c) from sources like a supernova.

Cheers
Aj

I know what neutrinos are but thanks for the input and taking time to respond. I found the answers on some of the links and websites many of you pvt messaged me with. Thank you!

[Corkey]

http://news.yahoo.com/odyssey-marine...145559446.html

Sunken treasure

[dreadgeek]

Originally Posted by JAGG

I know what neutrinos are but thanks for the input and taking time to respond. I found the answers on some of the links and websites many of you pvt messaged me with. Thank you!

No offense was meant, Jagg. I responded to you but wanted to give others who might also be wondering much the same thing but didn't necessarily know what neutrinos are some bit of background so they would have some context about what all the hubbub was about. Again, I meant no insult.

Cheers
Aj