only another butch would understand

Jet · 11-14-2009, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Metropolis

A thought from a butch who's not "male identified" what-ever it be worth to your query Jet... someone may try to emasculate a butch (either male or female ID etc. etc. etc.) but I don't believe they actually can do this without said butch allowing it.

In other words, no one can emasculate me... though they may try and it isn't pleasant I'd guess... but it only reflects back on their own short comings.

Anyway good tread Dean Thoreau... though I'm not much of a burper.

I get it totally. Its not so much the words, it's that it negates everything you thought she understood. It's a trust issue or as though she lied and never thought you as her butch. Otherwise why would she do that?

BullDog · 11-14-2009, 01:06 PM

Well I don't burp much, am not male identified, and don't have a huge concern about anyone trying to emasculate me, but howdy to all the butches in the Butch Zone.

Jett · 11-14-2009, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BullDog

Well I don't burp much, am not male identified, and don't have a huge concern about anyone trying to emasculate me, but howdy to all the butches in the Butch Zone.

Hey Bully!

BullDog · 11-14-2009, 01:13 PM

Hey Metro, great to see you!

Jett · 11-14-2009, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BullDog

Hey Metro, great to see you!

Likewise *thumbs up*

Beau · 11-14-2009, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Metropolis

Although you stated your query was directed to the "male identified" of which I'm not... just a thought. Someone may try to emasculate a butch (either male or female ID etc. etc. etc.) but I don't believe they actually can do this without said butch allowing it.

In other words, no one can emasculate me... though they may try and it isn't pleasant I'd guess... but IMO it only reflects back on their own short comings.

Anyway good thread Dean Thoreau... though I'm not much of a burper.

Thanks for this, Metropolis. As a non-burping, female-identified butch, I have no concerns regarding my masculinity. I'd be thrilled to be acknowledged in the world for the different type of woman I am. And, no, no woman/partner/date has ever attacked me for that. Either I'm lucky, or I just have too much natural T to make that an issue. Regardless, I'm mostly disappointed that the first "butch" thread is already centered on male stereotypes as a marker of what butch is. That's just fucking sad.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BullDog

Well I don't burp much, am not male identified, and don't have a huge concern about anyone trying to emasculate me, but howdy to all the butches in the Butch Zone.

Hello back, Bully. Thank you for your post as well.

Beau, who doesn't scratch in public either

Mister Bent · 11-14-2009, 04:03 PM

As someone both male identified, and (trans) butch identified, I think there is a broad expanse of what can be covered by "only another butch would understand." While burping might be a knuckle-dragging male stereotype, it's a practice greatly enjoyed (or not, for those of delicate sensibilities) by all sexes and genders.

Meanwhile, I think Ol' Jet was on point with the emasculation thing, I've had this one hurled at me before, and I just viewed it as the feeble last resort of a desperate person. Eh.

Which is to say, why don't we move on respectfully, instead of disdainfully.

Toughy · 11-14-2009, 04:08 PM

what Metro, Bully and Beau said.........

certainly I have been asked to 'tone it down a little'......laughin.......like I can.....however I didn't find it emasculating...not sure how you could emasculate me.....laughin.....

Random · 11-14-2009, 04:54 PM

Heys beau...

So.. I have a question that has been burning on the tip of my fingers for YEARS.. but now feel that I can ask this question..

So.. what of the butch who is a living breathing sterotype of what a sterotype of a butch is? You speak for yourself as a non burping femail id butch who has no concerns regarding your masculinity.. Can't a male ID burping, concerned about being demascunlized butch speak up as well?

You get to talk for you.. He gets to talk for him...

I have someone who I call my brother.. He is the stero type of a hard working blue collar masculine ID butch.. When he and his girl get into a fight, she does the *call him by his birth name* to hurt and make him feel bad about himself.. that who he is in his head, is not who he is in body or on paper... it matter to him.. it hurts him... It might not hurt you for someone to call you by your birth name.. But for someone you love and trust to knowingly go for your soft spot.. It's not a lovely thing..

The lovely thing about the world is.. People come in all kinds of flavor.. all different types... Not one way is the right way to be...

Male ID Butchs... they are not just some *stero type* They are living breathing people who have the same right as anyone else to complain, say what makes them smile, what makes them happy, and what makes them cry...

If you are sad about the first thread being started by butches being more of the masculine/male ID flavor.. then start one where it's not.... Don't make people feel bad about them selfs because they are different than you...

Huggs.. and much love to the Mrs...

Quote:

Originally Posted by beau4afemme

Thanks for this, Metropolis. As a non-burping, female-identified butch, I have no concerns regarding my masculinity. I'd be thrilled to be acknowledged in the world for the different type of woman I am. And, no, no woman/partner/date has ever attacked me for that. Either I'm lucky, or I just have too much natural T to make that an issue. Regardless, I'm mostly disappointed that the first "butch" thread is already centered on male stereotypes as a marker of what butch is. That's just fucking sad.

[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]

Dean Thoreau · 11-14-2009, 04:09 PM

Ok to me the only way anyone is going to emascualte me is if I allow them to.
And easiest way to allow it is by letting them know saying stupid shit bothers me.

I just ignore the comments...cause I know the person making the comment is:
1. looking for a argument
2. wants to be a bitch
3. feeling wounded cause i did somethin stupid; or someone within a 2000 mile radius did and the person is desiring to boost their ego by saying stupid crap to me
4. an insensitive idiot that doesnt have a clue
5. ignorant
6. an asshole
7. all of the above

And bluntly none of the above have the power to shake my masculinity/butchness/ sense of self....and If i am dating/married/ involved with a person like that....I am the asshole.

at my age,,gas happens..be thankful it was a burp!

Anyone else get annoyed by the "butch sterotype" handy? likes power tools? can fix things?
Fine I burp but..I cant fix things..i dont like being thought of as the person that can fix the door, the light switch, or the one who wants to go up the ladder and clean the leaves from the gutters.
I now have tools..all sorts...that out of necessity I have had to buy because once in a while I get this brainstorm of an idea to build something. But that does not mean I know how to fix or repair things in the house.....like....toilets, sinks, or cars..... My Diva's are convinced if they call me it will magically be fixed... not sure why cause my response is usually.....looks broekn to me......... then I say call the repair person, the mechanic, the tow truck, the plumber, the elctrician....

Admin · 11-14-2009, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dean Thoreau

Ok to me the only way anyone is going to emascualte me is if I allow them to.
And easiest way to allow it is by letting them know saying stupid shit bothers me.

I just ignore the comments...cause I know the person making the comment is:
1. looking for a argument
2. wants to be a bitch
3. feeling wounded cause i did somethin stupid; or someone within a 2000 mile radius did and the person is desiring to boost their ego by saying stupid crap to me
4. an insensitive idiot that doesnt have a clue
5. ignorant
6. an asshole
7. all of the above

And bluntly none of the above have the power to shake my masculinity/butchness/ sense of self....and If i am dating/married/ involved with a person like that....I am the asshole.

at my age,,gas happens..be thankful it was a burp!

Hey Dean,

I get what you are saying about how you feel like nobody can emasculate you. That is great for you.

What comments like "only a Butch would understand" and the subsequent examples of "burping or farting" do is create an atmosphere that is hostile and unwelcoming to folks who do not embrace the binary. It also can feel gross to have these stereotypes heralded as "the way" in a Queer space. I want to ask you to please do some thinking around this.

As far as saying that someone is making comments to "be a bitch".

This is a very sexist and unwelcoming comment. The word "bitch" is often used in a sexist way to silence women and is unacceptable in that use on this website. You may be comfortable with this verbiage and you are most welcome to use that verbiage in your daily life in your own home but it is not welcome on this site.

I want you to feel welcome here as a member but we have already received numerous reports over things you have posted in other areas. I am asking you as the Administrator to please do some hard thinking about the way you are interacting with the members here.

While I am not asking you to change the way you think, I am asking you to at least give some thought to how what you say makes other people feel.

We do not want to create a site where posturing, hierarchies, sexism, or ignorance is the norm...nor do we want members to feel that their own gender identities or ways of being are being mocked, "othered", or dismissed.

Again, please take some time to do some hard thinking around this issue and take the initiative to make sure that your words are welcoming and inclusive of all ways of being.

Thanks,
Admin

Greyson · 11-16-2009, 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Admin

We do not want to create a site where posturing, hierarchies, sexism, or ignorance is the norm...nor do we want members to feel that their own gender identities or ways of being are being mocked, "othered", or dismissed.

Again, please take some time to do some hard thinking around this issue and take the initiative to make sure that your words are welcoming and inclusive of all ways of being.

Thanks,
Admin

I have not had much time the past few days to peruse and hang out in cyber land. I've had a pretty hard day in the "real world" and reading this made me smile. Thanks.

Jet · 11-14-2009, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dean Thoreau

...cause I know the person making the comment is:
1. looking for a argument
2. wants to be a bitch
3. feeling wounded cause i did somethin stupid; or someone within a 2000 mile radius did and the person is desiring to boost their ego by saying stupid crap to me
4. an insensitive idiot that doesnt have a clue
5. ignorant
6. an asshole
7. all of the above

well, needless to say we split, not because of her comments, but because of all the above. I'm male ID'd and transgendered and if she didn't get that in the first placed she shouldn't have let on. It's water under the bridge now, but I'm not the only one who has gone through this. I look at as a low blow and unnessessary. It didn't negate my maleness, it annihlated (sp) my trust. How could some I loved deliver a cheap shot like that...i'm not an asshole for being involved with her, just really stupid.

Jet · 11-14-2009, 04:37 PM

Sidebar To the Administrator.
Just a note that I think you run one of the coolest ships I've ever seen... and I respect it.

Beau · 11-14-2009, 04:53 PM

and now for something completely different

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltmMJntSfQI"]YouTube- Monty Python "How Not To Be Seen"[/ame]

from one who at least wants to be seen here,
Beau

Bad_boi · 05-03-2010, 10:40 PM

That femmes are weird but I love them dearly.

(I am sure they think the same of us)

Jett · 11-14-2009, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ol' Jet

I get it totally. Its not so much the words, it's that it negates everything you thought she understood. It's a trust issue or as though she lied and never thought you as her butch. Otherwise why would she do that?

Right... it's a low blow and from one who should support you the most... pretty ugly. Unfortunately when peeps get pissed, some resort to the nasty stuff.

Live and learn I guess and hopefully so will they eventually...

11-14-2009, 04:03 PM	#7
Mister Bent Senior Member How Do You Identify?: . Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: . Posts: 2,905 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 4,151 Thanked 5,825 Times in 1,722 Posts Rep Power: 21474854	no posturing zone As someone both male identified, and (trans) butch identified, I think there is a broad expanse of what can be covered by "only another butch would understand." While burping might be a knuckle-dragging male stereotype, it's a practice greatly enjoyed (or not, for those of delicate sensibilities) by all sexes and genders. Meanwhile, I think Ol' Jet was on point with the emasculation thing, I've had this one hurled at me before, and I just viewed it as the feeble last resort of a desperate person. Eh. Which is to say, why don't we move on respectfully, instead of disdainfully. __________________ Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats. - H. L. Mencken

11-14-2009, 04:09 PM	#10
Dean Thoreau Member How Do You Identify?: Ftm - Male- exfemale Preferred Pronoun?: He’s Him Relationship Status: Has a gf Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Philadelphia pa Posts: 889 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 251 Thanked 760 Times in 219 Posts Rep Power: 4529749	Ok to me the only way anyone is going to emascualte me is if I allow them to. And easiest way to allow it is by letting them know saying stupid shit bothers me. I just ignore the comments...cause I know the person making the comment is: 1. looking for a argument 2. wants to be a bitch 3. feeling wounded cause i did somethin stupid; or someone within a 2000 mile radius did and the person is desiring to boost their ego by saying stupid crap to me 4. an insensitive idiot that doesnt have a clue 5. ignorant 6. an asshole 7. all of the above And bluntly none of the above have the power to shake my masculinity/butchness/ sense of self....and If i am dating/married/ involved with a person like that....I am the asshole. at my age,,gas happens..be thankful it was a burp! Anyone else get annoyed by the "butch sterotype" handy? likes power tools? can fix things? Fine I burp but..I cant fix things..i dont like being thought of as the person that can fix the door, the light switch, or the one who wants to go up the ladder and clean the leaves from the gutters. I now have tools..all sorts...that out of necessity I have had to buy because once in a while I get this brainstorm of an idea to build something. But that does not mean I know how to fix or repair things in the house.....like....toilets, sinks, or cars..... My Diva's are convinced if they call me it will magically be fixed... not sure why cause my response is usually.....looks broekn to me......... then I say call the repair person, the mechanic, the tow truck, the plumber, the elctrician.... __________________ Dean Thoreau

11-14-2009, 04:53 PM	#15
Beau Timed Out How Do You Identify?: . Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: . Posts: 178 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 71 Thanked 339 Times in 87 Posts Rep Power: 0	what I think all would understand and now for something completely different [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltmMJntSfQI"]YouTube- Monty Python "How Not To Be Seen"[/ame] from one who at least wants to be seen here, Beau

11-14-2009, 01:06 PM	#2
BullDog Infamous Member How Do You Identify?: Dominant Stone Butch Daddy Preferred Pronoun?: She Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: In A Healing Place Posts: 5,371 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 18,160 Thanked 22,660 Times in 4,463 Posts Rep Power: 21474856	Well I don't burp much, am not male identified, and don't have a huge concern about anyone trying to emasculate me, but howdy to all the butches in the Butch Zone.

11-14-2009, 01:13 PM	#4
BullDog Infamous Member How Do You Identify?: Dominant Stone Butch Daddy Preferred Pronoun?: She Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: In A Healing Place Posts: 5,371 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 18,160 Thanked 22,660 Times in 4,463 Posts Rep Power: 21474856	Hey Metro, great to see you!

11-14-2009, 04:08 PM	#8
Toughy Senior Member How Do You Identify?: pervert butch feminist woman Preferred Pronoun?: see above Relationship Status: independent entity Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Oakland Posts: 1,826 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 4,068 Thanked 7,653 Times in 1,522 Posts Rep Power: 21474853	what Metro, Bully and Beau said......... certainly I have been asked to 'tone it down a little'......laughin.......like I can.....however I didn't find it emasculating...not sure how you could emasculate me.....laughin.....

11-14-2009, 04:37 PM	#14
Jet Timed Out - TOS Drama How Do You Identify?: .. Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: .. Posts: 3,471 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 292 Thanked 2,647 Times in 1,293 Posts Rep Power: 0	Sidebar To the Administrator. Just a note that I think you run one of the coolest ships I've ever seen... and I respect it.

05-03-2010, 10:40 PM	#16
Bad_boi Member How Do You Identify?: Transman (male) Preferred Pronoun?: He, Him, His ect. Relationship Status: Handsome bastard. Tournaments Won: 1 Join Date: May 2010 Location: Seattle Posts: 727 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 122 Thanked 1,824 Times in 499 Posts Rep Power: 0	That femmes are weird but I love them dearly. (I am sure they think the same of us)