What is Forgiveness?

Ginger · 04-17-2012, 10:34 AM

I don't think forgiveness is always necessary or even beneficial.

Indifference and letting go is where I find peace, when a relationship ends and the dynamic can't be fixed in order for the relationship to morph into something else.

And I also want to say, indifference isn't the same as wishing someone harm, or hating them. It's what happens when letting go reaches a certain ultimate point. It isn't cold or mean, it just is.

On the other hand, if I want to continue in a relationship with a person who has transgressed against me in some egregious way, forgiveness might open the door to trust. It's a way of saying, "I'm not mad at you anymore" but also there is this tacit agreement: "and I trust you not to do that harmful thing again."

If I want to be friends with someone who did something hurtful to me, I can sometimes just avoid the situations in which that might happen again. With family, for example, I avoid certain conversational topics, and don't ask for what I know I won't get, emotionally.

Is that forgiveness? No, I don't think so. It's protecting myself from toxins in order to continue having contact with that person or persons. It's a kind of trade-off, one I've decided is worth the effort.

I guess I just don't like the whole vibe happening around the term "forgiveness." It sounds religious to me, and I'll admit anything with a religious tone turns me off so take that with a grain of salt.

Here's part of what Wiki says:

"Forgiveness is typically defined as the process of concluding resentment, indignation or anger as a result of a perceived offense, difference or mistake, or ceasing to demand punishment or restitution."

So I guess they're saying forgiveness is the letting go of "resentment, indignation or anger," which I'm all for—(it erodes your health, for one thing, to stay mad), but that doesn't mean, the relationship has to pick up where it left off. It can end, continue, whatever, after forgiveness happens.

Here's what I just realized; forgiveness often implies that the forgiver is somehow morally superior to the person being forgiven. That just bugs me.

Nat · 04-17-2012, 12:34 PM

I grew up not really knowing what forgiveness was. My mom hasn't been much of a forgiver - she holds grudges for so long only the sands of time can wear them away. Or she'll find an excuse for a person's behavior and just rationalize it away. Which has been my main way of avoiding forgiveness too. Or, I'll blame myself for whatever was done.

I'm stuck on my 4th step in OA because I seriously don't like thinking that I resent anybody. I'd rather excuse people for their behavior and anesthetize myself in various ways. Or take the blame for bad behavior of others.

For a long time, I thought forgiveness was something you gave to another person, like bequeathed to them like a gift. But there's a guided meditation I do sometimes regarding debt, and the person recommends that if you want to get rid of your debt, you need to look at the people you see as owing you, and just imagine them being absorbed in white light and disappearing. A friend laughed when I told her this and said, "I'd rather visualize pushing them down the stairs!" Anyway, it may sound cheesy, but whether or not you visualize a person disappearing into white light, I think it's good to remember we are all human and it's helpful sometimes to just write off the debt instead of carrying it around in the books forever. I don't think forgiveness has to come with trust or even renewed friendship. It *can* but I don't think it has to.

UofMfan · 04-17-2012, 02:37 PM

This article, for the most part, expresses how I feel about forgiveness.

Don't Ask Me for Forgiveness!

1QuirkyKiwi · 04-29-2012, 01:17 PM

The way I was taught about forgiveness… Mauri Ora – Wellbeing. Kia Mauritau – Be peaceful.

I was taught that forgiveness is not always necessary because not every person that hurts us can be forgiven. We are not responsible for another’s motives. A person’s actions say more about them, than it does about us.

I was taught that each of us holds the ability to find peace within ourselves for what that person(s) have done to us. I was taught to own my own feelings and emotions and work through them to the best of my abilities; this does not mean take revenge for my pain, but, if I feel the need to cry from hurting, then I do and let the anger out by punching a pillow. Also, to accept or a least acknowledge that feeling stupid for a day or two because I didn’t see it coming, isn’t a bad thing.

I was taught to let Karma take its course. The Maori have a saying: “So, let the user be responsible; not to me; or you; or other mortal beings, but to one mightier then the user; so by all means, do what you wish.”

Glenn · 04-29-2012, 08:18 PM

Forgive everything And forget Nothing.

~ocean · 04-29-2012, 08:47 PM

when u learn to accept forgiveness follows

Darbonaire · 05-05-2012, 09:48 AM

[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3D4VMZb8wLY&feature=related"]Forgiveness and the Freedom of Letting go - YouTube[/nomedia]

This helped me a lot.....maybe it will help another......I think it is beautiful !

deedarino · 05-06-2012, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UofMfan

This article, for the most part, expresses how I feel about forgiveness.

Don't Ask Me for Forgiveness!

I love this article...I have always called it forgiveness but sometimes that word just sticks in my throat.

I know acceptance. I can accept that others are just who they are. That they have their own road to travel and how they touch others along their path is their journey, not mine. I can also accept that this person isn't right for my path and move on.

Forgiveness is saved for those who seek it out, who truly work to find it. Who seek true amends.

Raven. · 11-07-2012, 06:33 AM

when i find the answers in me, then I will think about what sits as a very secondary process. Forgiveness is the wrong language. My relationship with this word sits largely with religious practice and I link the expectation of forgiveness to a patriotic construct. History says women should forgive and move on.. blame sits with them for not "letting go" of what for many can only be described as horrendous atrocities. The prognosis of my life story and my desire for normalcy comes at a cost that many would not understand. Personally,whilst I bare such cost at the expense of another, I will never forgive.

11-07-2012, 06:51 AM

You cannot be forgiven until you learn to forgive.

*Anya* · 11-07-2012, 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UofMfan

This article, for the most part, expresses how I feel about forgiveness.

Don't Ask Me for Forgiveness!

Yes, this.

Acceptance is different than forgiveness.

It is what it is.

I can not change the outcome. I so wish that it were different but do not have the power to change it.

I accept.

JustJo · 11-07-2012, 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UofMfan

This article, for the most part, expresses how I feel about forgiveness.

Don't Ask Me for Forgiveness!

Quote:

Originally Posted by deedarino

I love this article...I have always called it forgiveness but sometimes that word just sticks in my throat.

I know acceptance. I can accept that others are just who they are. That they have their own road to travel and how they touch others along their path is their journey, not mine. I can also accept that this person isn't right for my path and move on.

Forgiveness is saved for those who seek it out, who truly work to find it. Who seek true amends.

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Anya*

Yes, this.

Acceptance is different than forgiveness.

It is what it is.

I can not change the outcome. I so wish that it were different but do not have the power to change it.

I accept.

Exactly! Thank you for sharing this article UofM. I had never seen it or heard of this approach and it's absolutely how I feel.

I have never been able to tolerate the idea of forgiving people who have done nothing to deserve it, and who continue to behave in ways that hurt others.

I know I'm pretty much a black and white thinker (and I'm okay with that)....but my reaction has always been "oh hell no." I totally get the idea of acceptance and making peace with what happened so that the injured party can move forward....but I do not support the free ride that total forgiveness gives to those who hurt and keep on hurting without remorse and change.

Sun · 11-13-2012, 01:30 PM

For me forgiveness is a vehicle to my own inner peace and happiness.

I want to share this meditation that I have found helpful:

Practicing Metta: Loving Kindness

If anyone has harmed me, intentionally, or unintentionally by word, thought or deed, may I forgive them.

If I have harmed anyone, intentionally or unintentionally, by word, thought or deed, may they forgive me.

If I have harmed myself, intentionally or unintentionally, by word, thought or deed, may I forgive myself.

Gráinne · 11-13-2012, 02:09 PM

Forgiveness for me is something I do for myself.

It's acknowledging that something shitty happened, that it was wrong, and then getting to a point of letting go of the anger and hurt.

When I was dealing with some things that had to be forgiven, I got alone out in a park somewhere and wrote a huge letter, nothing held back. I stayed out there all day. Then I tore it up and literally let it all go into the trashbin.

That doesn't mean that I forget, or that I allow myself to just be abused and forgive them anyway. I got to a point where I had to let go for my own inner health, but be smart enough and love myself enough not to allow them to do that to me again.

DamonK · 11-13-2012, 02:44 PM

Funny this is showing up today.

For me, forgiveness is a fantastic thing and a bitter thing.

I recently had to find a way to forgive a family member. Like the article UofM posted, the offender offered apologies, started making amends. This one amend allowed me to mostly forgive. Can I entirely? Right now, no. The wounds inflicted were too deep. Did it allow me to begin to move on and heal? Yes. Was trust broken? Somewhat. Not entirely.
Forgiveness... I find it to be necessary as part of life. It's not for the other person. That person has to work for it. I can choose to rise above the issue that caused the rift and drown, or find a way to forgive and rebuild the rift.

That is for serious situations.

Now, say my best friend and I have a squabble. Either she or I may ask for forgiveness of the other. It just shows, hey, we got this, we are just fine.

04-17-2012, 10:34 AM	#1
Ginger Senior Member How Do You Identify?: Femme lesbian Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: East coast Posts: 2,416 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 5,829 Thanked 12,296 Times in 2,057 Posts Rep Power: 21474852	I don't think forgiveness is always necessary or even beneficial. Indifference and letting go is where I find peace, when a relationship ends and the dynamic can't be fixed in order for the relationship to morph into something else. And I also want to say, indifference isn't the same as wishing someone harm, or hating them. It's what happens when letting go reaches a certain ultimate point. It isn't cold or mean, it just is. On the other hand, if I want to continue in a relationship with a person who has transgressed against me in some egregious way, forgiveness might open the door to trust. It's a way of saying, "I'm not mad at you anymore" but also there is this tacit agreement: "and I trust you not to do that harmful thing again." If I want to be friends with someone who did something hurtful to me, I can sometimes just avoid the situations in which that might happen again. With family, for example, I avoid certain conversational topics, and don't ask for what I know I won't get, emotionally. Is that forgiveness? No, I don't think so. It's protecting myself from toxins in order to continue having contact with that person or persons. It's a kind of trade-off, one I've decided is worth the effort. I guess I just don't like the whole vibe happening around the term "forgiveness." It sounds religious to me, and I'll admit anything with a religious tone turns me off so take that with a grain of salt. Here's part of what Wiki says: "Forgiveness is typically defined as the process of concluding resentment, indignation or anger as a result of a perceived offense, difference or mistake, or ceasing to demand punishment or restitution." So I guess they're saying forgiveness is the letting go of "resentment, indignation or anger," which I'm all for—(it erodes your health, for one thing, to stay mad), but that doesn't mean, the relationship has to pick up where it left off. It can end, continue, whatever, after forgiveness happens. Here's what I just realized; forgiveness often implies that the forgiver is somehow morally superior to the person being forgiven. That just bugs me. Last edited by Ginger; 04-17-2012 at 10:35 AM. Reason: misspelling

04-17-2012, 12:34 PM	#2
Nat Senior Member How Do You Identify?: bigender (DID System) Preferred Pronoun?: he/him or alter-specific Relationship Status: Unavailable Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Central TX Posts: 3,537 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 11,047 Thanked 13,972 Times in 2,591 Posts Rep Power: 21474855	I grew up not really knowing what forgiveness was. My mom hasn't been much of a forgiver - she holds grudges for so long only the sands of time can wear them away. Or she'll find an excuse for a person's behavior and just rationalize it away. Which has been my main way of avoiding forgiveness too. Or, I'll blame myself for whatever was done. I'm stuck on my 4th step in OA because I seriously don't like thinking that I resent anybody. I'd rather excuse people for their behavior and anesthetize myself in various ways. Or take the blame for bad behavior of others. For a long time, I thought forgiveness was something you gave to another person, like bequeathed to them like a gift. But there's a guided meditation I do sometimes regarding debt, and the person recommends that if you want to get rid of your debt, you need to look at the people you see as owing you, and just imagine them being absorbed in white light and disappearing. A friend laughed when I told her this and said, "I'd rather visualize pushing them down the stairs!" Anyway, it may sound cheesy, but whether or not you visualize a person disappearing into white light, I think it's good to remember we are all human and it's helpful sometimes to just write off the debt instead of carrying it around in the books forever. I don't think forgiveness has to come with trust or even renewed friendship. It can but I don't think it has to. __________________ I'm a fountain of blood. In the shape of a girl. - Bjork What is to give light must endure burning. -Viktor Frankl

04-17-2012, 02:37 PM	#3
UofMfan Infamous Member How Do You Identify?: Butch Relationship Status: A very happy Mr. Grumpy Cat Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Neither here or there Posts: 7,987 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 27,733 Thanked 18,937 Times in 4,705 Posts Rep Power: 21474859	Apropos. This article, for the most part, expresses how I feel about forgiveness. Don't Ask Me for Forgiveness!

04-29-2012, 01:17 PM	#4
1QuirkyKiwi Senior Member How Do You Identify?: BBW. Unique femininity that does not encompass the western paradigm. Preferred Pronoun?: Anything Respectful! Relationship Status: Single, Happy, not Desparate or Looking, but Open to Possibilities... Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Europe and Aotearoa on a 5:2 ratio. Posts: 2,308 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 11,003 Thanked 6,035 Times in 1,617 Posts Rep Power: 21474852	The way I was taught about forgiveness… Mauri Ora – Wellbeing. Kia Mauritau – Be peaceful. I was taught that forgiveness is not always necessary because not every person that hurts us can be forgiven. We are not responsible for another’s motives. A person’s actions say more about them, than it does about us. I was taught that each of us holds the ability to find peace within ourselves for what that person(s) have done to us. I was taught to own my own feelings and emotions and work through them to the best of my abilities; this does not mean take revenge for my pain, but, if I feel the need to cry from hurting, then I do and let the anger out by punching a pillow. Also, to accept or a least acknowledge that feeling stupid for a day or two because I didn’t see it coming, isn’t a bad thing. I was taught to let Karma take its course. The Maori have a saying: “So, let the user be responsible; not to me; or you; or other mortal beings, but to one mightier then the user; so by all means, do what you wish.” __________________ What will make the difference to me is your strength of character and what's in your heart...

05-05-2012, 09:48 AM	#7
Darbonaire Timed Out How Do You Identify?: MALE Preferred Pronoun?: He Relationship Status: Working on myself, thank you Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Virginia Posts: 186 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 343 Thanked 552 Times in 145 Posts Rep Power: 0	This is something I loved ! [nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3D4VMZb8wLY&feature=related"]Forgiveness and the Freedom of Letting go - YouTube[/nomedia] This helped me a lot.....maybe it will help another......I think it is beautiful !

04-29-2012, 08:18 PM	#5
Glenn Senior Member How Do You Identify?: Dear ol butch bones. Preferred Pronoun?: Old G Relationship Status: Too old to play. Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: :rolleyes: Posts: 1,547 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 3,602 Thanked 3,729 Times in 1,095 Posts Rep Power: 21474853	Forgive everything And forget Nothing.

04-29-2012, 08:47 PM	#6
~ocean Infamous Member How Do You Identify?: femme blows a kiss off my finger tips * Preferred Pronoun?: ~ hey girl ~ Relationship Status: ~ single & content ~ Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Massachusetts ~coastal Posts: 7,905 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 22,958 Thanked 16,023 Times in 4,726 Posts Rep Power: 21474859	when u learn to accept forgiveness follows

11-07-2012, 06:33 AM	#9
Raven. Junior Member How Do You Identify?: Butch! Tomboi Relationship Status: Single Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Sydney Posts: 8 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 6 Thanked 25 Times in 6 Posts Rep Power: 0	when i find the answers in me, then I will think about what sits as a very secondary process. Forgiveness is the wrong language. My relationship with this word sits largely with religious practice and I link the expectation of forgiveness to a patriotic construct. History says women should forgive and move on.. blame sits with them for not "letting go" of what for many can only be described as horrendous atrocities. The prognosis of my life story and my desire for normalcy comes at a cost that many would not understand. Personally,whilst I bare such cost at the expense of another, I will never forgive.

11-07-2012, 06:51 AM	#10
Daktari Guest Tournaments Won: 1 Posts: n/a My Photo Gallery	You cannot be forgiven until you learn to forgive.

11-13-2012, 01:30 PM	#13
Sun Senior Member How Do You Identify?: Trans Preferred Pronoun?: He, him, his Relationship Status: Single Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: N/A Posts: 1,775 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 4,557 Thanked 5,551 Times in 1,456 Posts Rep Power: 21474853	For me forgiveness is a vehicle to my own inner peace and happiness. I want to share this meditation that I have found helpful: Practicing Metta: Loving Kindness If anyone has harmed me, intentionally, or unintentionally by word, thought or deed, may I forgive them. If I have harmed anyone, intentionally or unintentionally, by word, thought or deed, may they forgive me. If I have harmed myself, intentionally or unintentionally, by word, thought or deed, may I forgive myself. __________________ “Lovers don't finally meet somewhere. They're in each other all along.” ― Rumi

11-13-2012, 02:09 PM	#14
Gráinne Senior Member How Do You Identify?: Neither, nada, out of the box Preferred Pronoun?: My name always works Relationship Status: Happy whatever happens Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Little Rock Posts: 1,864 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 2,117 Thanked 7,388 Times in 1,457 Posts Rep Power: 21474852	Forgiveness for me is something I do for myself. It's acknowledging that something shitty happened, that it was wrong, and then getting to a point of letting go of the anger and hurt. When I was dealing with some things that had to be forgiven, I got alone out in a park somewhere and wrote a huge letter, nothing held back. I stayed out there all day. Then I tore it up and literally let it all go into the trashbin. That doesn't mean that I forget, or that I allow myself to just be abused and forgive them anyway. I got to a point where I had to let go for my own inner health, but be smart enough and love myself enough not to allow them to do that to me again. __________________ The odds of going to the store for a loaf of bread and coming out with only a loaf of bread are three billion to one. ~Erma Bombeck

11-13-2012, 02:44 PM	#15
DamonK Senior Member How Do You Identify?: . Preferred Pronoun?: . Relationship Status: . Join Date: May 2010 Location: . Posts: 2,199 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 1,527 Thanked 7,762 Times in 1,881 Posts Rep Power: 21474854	Funny this is showing up today. For me, forgiveness is a fantastic thing and a bitter thing. I recently had to find a way to forgive a family member. Like the article UofM posted, the offender offered apologies, started making amends. This one amend allowed me to mostly forgive. Can I entirely? Right now, no. The wounds inflicted were too deep. Did it allow me to begin to move on and heal? Yes. Was trust broken? Somewhat. Not entirely. Forgiveness... I find it to be necessary as part of life. It's not for the other person. That person has to work for it. I can choose to rise above the issue that caused the rift and drown, or find a way to forgive and rebuild the rift. That is for serious situations. Now, say my best friend and I have a squabble. Either she or I may ask for forgiveness of the other. It just shows, hey, we got this, we are just fine.