2012 US General Election Discussions: Start to Finish

[firegal]

Ole Mitt spoke in one of the Carolina's saying " we need to get these unions"

All the woes are the workers fault..... So they say!

I have firefighters for Obama sign in my yard as does all my family and peeps yards!

Mitts VP choice would love for what happened in Wisconsin to be status quo everywhere.......fuck stick!

[firegal]

Oh and I campaigned for the " douchebag" last time too!

I felt if was a no brainer! His opponent made the choice easy!

[homoe]

Mitt and Paul are no friends to the unions and the work stiffs, that for darn sure!

[AtLast]

And today on the campaign trail, Mittwitt makes a birther remark in Michigan. Said "no one ever asked him for his birth certificate"...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1828095.html

[dreadgeek]

Originally Posted by AtLast

And today on the campaign trail, Mittwitt makes a birther remark in Michigan. Said "no one ever asked him for his birth certificate"...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1828095.html

I was wondering when Mittens would go full-on Birther. I didn't think it would be until late September but here we go...

Cheers
Aj

[Kobi]

"No one has ever asked to see my birth certificate," Romney said at a rally in Commerce, Mich., as he campaigned alongside his running mate, Rep. Paul Ryan. Referring to his wife, Ann, who is also a Michigan native, Romney said, "They know that this is the place that we were born and raised."



First it is Akins and forcible rape.

Then it is Ryan trying to distance himself from Akin and anti-abortion legislation he co-authored.

Now, it is Mitt reminding all Americans that, as a white man, his birthplace would never be questioned.

Geez even I caught the racism there Mitt.

Nice prelude to the RNC.

[*Anya*]

Originally Posted by Soon

Chronicling Mitt's Mendacity, Vol. XXX

The biggest problem is that the people that will vote for him have zip critical thinking skills.

The operate strictly on emotion and fear whipped up by the tea baggers and conservatives.

[dreadgeek]

Originally Posted by Kobi

"No one has ever asked to see my birth certificate," Romney said at a rally in Commerce, Mich., as he campaigned alongside his running mate, Rep. Paul Ryan. Referring to his wife, Ann, who is also a Michigan native, Romney said, "They know that this is the place that we were born and raised."



First it is Akins and forcible rape.

Then it is Ryan trying to distance himself from Akin and anti-abortion legislation he co-authored.

Now, it is Mitt reminding all Americans that, as a white man, his birthplace would never be questioned.

Geez even I caught the racism there Mitt.

Nice prelude to the RNC.

Well, it was bound to happen sometime, Mittens was going to *have* to bring up race and the birth certificate thing is just plausibly deniable enough that it works for them. The GOP has, for quite some time, made it clear that while they are happy for black people to vote for them, they don't care if we don't. Same thing with Latinos.

This is only the *least* racist thing that will be said on the campaign. The next 74 days are going to be very long for everyone and, I anticipate, excruciatingly painful for black Americans as our very Americanness is put up for public debate symbolized by Barack Obama.

Cheers
Aj

[Toughy]

Lubbock TX is about 100 miles from where I was born and raised in SE NM

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1822003.html

Tom Head, Texas Judge: Obama Reelection Could Lead To 'Civil War,' I'm Ready To 'Take Up Arms'

I'm going to refrain from making a snarky comment about this guy's last name

[dreadgeek]

Originally Posted by Toughy

Lubbock TX is about 100 miles from where I was born and raised in SE NM

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1822003.html

Tom Head, Texas Judge: Obama Reelection Could Lead To 'Civil War,' I'm Ready To 'Take Up Arms'

I'm going to refrain from making a snarky comment about this guy's last name

Okay, I don't often let my inner conspiracy theorist out and I've actually been wrong before, but this election has me seriously worried. The thing is, I think certain very deliberate things are taking place and will continue to take place. I also think that some of what I fear is that part of the tragedy is that we will have stumbled into it. I think Koch et. al. are going to try to suppress the vote in Ohio and any other state where they can. That's the deliberate part. I think they are going to try to make the election close enough to contest and this would be against a *sitting* POTUS, so not like 2000. That much is deliberate. That gives the following scenarios:

1) It appears Obama wins but it is not a landslide. Counting goes into the night. Because some voters were kept from polling because of voter ID laws that are very Constitutionally suspect, there are reasons for the results to be delayed and contested. There's a recount in one or more states. All during that time, FOX News and all the usual suspects start with the breathless fantasies of what Obama is going to do next. Tea Party groups start organizing protests. Someone brings a gun. There are counter-protesters. There is a lot of over-heated rhetoric about socialists and Marxist takeovers and 'taking our country back'. Enough Republicans *genuinely* believe that Barack Obama was born in Kenya and is, in fact, illegitimately occupying the White House. With elected officials saying there could be civil war, some people start 'taking back' their towns. Now, in the larger cities chances are things stay pretty as they are at first but in smaller towns, more likely to be *very* red, they start declaring themselves 'Free America'. Suddenly some states go. What does the Federal government do? If it does what it must, that confirms what the Tea Partiers have been telling each other for four years now--that Barack Obama is a dictator who has come to take over the United States and now he is making his move.

2) It appears that Romney wins but it's not a landslide. There's enough of a suspicious odor around the returns in certain parts of Ohio or Florida or other swing states that people consider the results suspect. Obama challenges the election and a recount for those states is required. It looks like Obama is gaining on Romney and may pull ahead. The SCOTUS, in a strictly party line vote, intervenes and halts the recount. Romney is declared the winner. The cities explode in protests. Marches are called for across the country. There's a long winter and then January 2013 rolls around. Romney is elected and there are massive protests in the coastal cities. Tea Partiers, who see the protests as the unwashed masses who *aren't real Americans* rising up and so they decide they are going to go out and 'defend' their country. People bring guns..

Either way, both sides do what is rational within the frame of their narrative. The problem here is that while the Left has its conspiracy theories *no one* in the Democratic Party of any significance gives them any heed. On the other hand, the Republican Party is wholly in thrall to the John Birch wing and we underestimate how much they *really and truly believe* what they have been telling themselves all these years. If Obama wins they're going to turn out into the streets, they're going to have weapons and shots *are* going to be fired at which point, all bets are off. If Romney wins, the Left is going to turn out into the streets and not a few of those people will be non-white. The Right will interpret this as an uprising, shots will be fired, all bets are off.

What happens after that, I don't know.

Since that is a total and complete bummer, here's a third scenario. It's the one that would be best for the nation, given our current circumstances. It is not the Pollyanna scenario, just the best *possible* given the constraints:

3) Caught between a rock and a hard place, Romney *has* to pivot on the abortion issue. The Religious Right is *enraged* perhaps even more than at Obama. To try to woo them back, he has to engage the full-on Birther, a task he assigns to Ryan. Reverend Right is brought up again. The last three weeks are just blatantly racist with not even a fig leaf of pretense given--at least from the independent groups. Romney can benefit from them while denying any involvement. In other words, what happens is so repugnant that the Republican party realizes, too late, that they've gone too far. Obama wins in a landslide. It will never be Reagan again Mondale in 1988 where Reagan won 49 states but it is lopsidedly in favor of Obama. The Republican party tears itself apart in recrimination. The theocrats, the racists and the acolytes of Ayn Rand are shown the door by the more establishment Republicans who are, in the final analysis, glad to be rid of them. The next four years the GOP starts to rebuild itself. Shed of the need to kowtow before the Family Research Council, the Minuteman Patriots and Grover Norquist, the Republican party begins reaching out to minority groups. In 2016 is still a bad year for the GOP. Locally a third party calling itself the Tea Party Patriots, do well in the South and a few midwestern towns but nothing national. In 2020, the GOP comes back closer to what the party was during the Eisenhower administration. Still a center-right party but a *sane* center-right party.

As a result of the election, having stared into the abyss, the states call for a Constitutional convention. Four amendments come out of it:

1) Corporations are explicitly not people.
2) Federal financing of elections. ALL elections. Broadcasters and newspapers are required to carry campaign advertising during election seasons.
3) Elections are six weeks long from start to finish. Voting is mandatory and moved to Saturday (you can pay an extra tax to not vote but I think we should require voting. Many other republics do).
4) The electoral college is removed. It is a 19th century artifact. The problem it was designed to solve no longer exists.

I would actually like to put in two or three more but I think that pretty much every sane person in this nation would agree that the four above are needed pretty damn badly.

Okay, my inner Cassandra has been let out for a moment.

Cheers
Aj

[Corkey]

I'm kind of hoping for scenario #3

[dreadgeek]

Originally Posted by Corkey

I'm kind of hoping for scenario #3

That is the one I strongly prefer. Since we have a two-party system, at present, I would prefer both parties to be healthy. Healthy parties can compromise, unhealthy parties can't. The GOP can't compromise and has clearly gone insane. They have *got* to ditch the fact-free crazies who are holding the party hostage.

Cheers
Aj

[Kobi]

I like the rationality in #3. Adding in, ratification of the Equal Rights Amendment would be imperative.

More and more, this particular election seems to be more ideological based as to who America is and what America stands for, rather than the usual and customary issues of the ecomony and stuff.

The GOP or the Gods Of Patriarchy and their promises for renewed and overt oppression of all beings they view as inferior are a scary bunch.

[dreadgeek]

Originally Posted by Kobi

I like the rationality in #3. Adding in, ratification of the Equal Rights Amendment would be imperative.

More and more, this particular election seems to be more ideological based as to who America is and what America stands for, rather than the usual and customary issues of the ecomony and stuff.

The GOP or the Gods Of Patriarchy and their promises for renewed and overt oppression of all beings they view as inferior are a scary bunch.

Yeah, they are. The thing that scares me the most about Santorum, Huckabee, et. al. is that they mean it. It isn't a posture, they aren't just saying what they think the base wants to hear. I know this sounds horrible but I have never wanted the right-wing populists who you see on TV to be a bunch of cynical grifters more than right now. I wish they didn't believe a word, then they could be trusted to stop. Cynical grifters don't want to break the world because then the game ends and they want to gravy train to never stop. True believers, however, are perfectly happy to break the world in pursuit of the purity of their goals. These people who are going to be intimidating black and Latino voters at the polls are going to believe themselves patriots. They will not believe themselves racists. It's not what they will consciously be thinking. They'll believe they are acting on the side of all that is Right and True and Good.

I actually am kind of glad that we're having the conversation about what we, the citizenry, believe our nation to be about. I wish we were having it across a broader spectrum and I could do without the racism but maybe, just maybe, this is their last hurrah. Not conservatism, that will always be part of the American strain as will populism. But this particular strain of right-wing populism may be seeing its swan song in the United States--at least for a while. I think, I hope, that Mittens' embrace of the birther madness will be a bridge too far. If it isn't and it is close, I'll be very, very disappointed in my fellow citizens. I hope we are a better nation than to let ourselves be devoured by the Tea Party whose vision of America is so harsh that dystopian doesn't even begin to cover it. Take the Gilded Age, add in the London of Charles Dickens, and cover liberally with a pre-Gallilean mindset about science. Cover in Atwood's "The Handmaid's Tale". Season with Calvinist Old Time Religion. Bake in hot nation until done.

That doesn't sound at all appetizing to me.

Cheers
Aj

[Martina]

[Corkey]

AJ I can only hope you're right about the tea nuts, but it doesn't feel that way to me. It feels like the racist and holy rollers are out to destroy this country, and they don't care who they demolish in the process. It's almost as if they drank from the same stupid fountain and lost their minds en mass. I just hope against hope that there are more of us than them at this point.

[Martina]

Maybe. But I was so discouraged today listening to NPR. There was a brief story on offshore accounts and how mainstream using them is and how we can't seem to do anything about them because of how strong the Wall Street Lobby is.

That they should have a strong lobby is galling. That none of them is in jail or likely to go to jail is hard to stomach.

But that the wealth of the middle class, which has been reduced by a third, has to carry the entire nation because corporations and the rich legally dodge taxes -- that this is not a national scandal -- it's demoralizing.

And then listening to coverage of the Republican Wisconsin folks who have no better sense than to vote for these idiots. (also on NPR).

Not that Obama has anything to be proud of re these issues.

Anyway, not a hopeful day for me.

[Toughy]

The states that have a Republican Governor and a Republican Secretary of State are going to be very scary. Don't forget Penn and FL among others.

As to the electoral college. I have very mixed feelings. In order to win the popular vote a candidate would only have to focus on 10 to 15 population centers in the country. New Mexico, Wyoming, Montana, the Dakotas and all the rural non-urban parts of the country would never see a candidate...don't need them or their vote to win. Rural and urban are two very different things with very different needs and it would be a shame to dilute out those non-urban votes as unnecessary....Sure you can mandate voting but it worries me that parts of the voting public would be less informed than they are now (which is also scary). because of limited to no access to the candidates. I can't remember where I read the article talking about this, but it certainly gave me pause.

[DMW]

Hell yes, the states with the republican governors and sec. of state. Those are the worst when it comes to the new laws to block the vote in each state. and more concern...all of the redistricting of the counties that has already occured...and been worked on for years now... in order to increase the odds that the counties will go red. The electoral college needs to be done away with.

[UofMfan]