Permission to propose

[princessbelle]

Originally Posted by IslandScout

Thanks Kobi, for pulling this information together.

I was poking around online last week and reading about the carry-over-threshold tradition, and learned that in addition to what you share above, the bride was carried because it was believed that if a bride tripped walking over the wheat thresh people kept at the door to minimize mud tracking, bad spirits would seize the moment to enter the home.

Apparently no one was worried about the groom tripping, or providing somehow, in the process of tripping, a way for evil spirits to take advantage as they seek access to a home or family or group of people.

A theme in many of these traditions is that women are weak links, among humans; that women are more vulnerable to doing and abetting evil. It's a misogynist view of women and prevalent in a lot of cultures.

**********

Other people have said this but I want to add that what I would do if I were getting married is pick and choose from all the traditions and go with whichever ones resonate for us or which we can re-invent, to fit my and my partner's values.

Thanks Island Scout and Kobi!!!!

Just goes to show *us* so many, many traditions were made on the backbone of women and in a very negative light. Shouldn't surprise me really. Anything to make us look weak or less than. Ugggg. Things we take for granted as not being full of misogyny that turns out it is.

And here i thought the "carrying over the threshold" was somehow being sweet or kind or something.

Makes one wonder what else we do or say in everyday life even that is not what it seems.

Certainly opens my eyes.

[Ginger]

Originally Posted by princessbelle

Thanks Island Scout and Kobi!!!!

Just goes to show *us* so many, many traditions were made on the backbone of women. Things we take for granted as not being full of misogyny that turns out it is.

And here i thought the "carrying over the threshold" was somehow being sweet or kind or something.

Makes one wonder what else we do or say in even everyday life that is not what it seems.

Certainly opens my eyes.

Maybe, Princess Belle, couples can apply their own meaning to traditions like carrying the bride over the threshold, and make them "new" in that way.

You know, they use that term "the new classic" in advertising—I think we have the freedom, well even straight people have the freedom, to reinvent traditions as our own.

Carrying someone over the threshold could be, "We will honor our different strengths. Your muscles carried me over the threshold but my salary got us the room. We'll pool our resources and together make a great team."

[princessbelle]

Originally Posted by IslandScout

Maybe, Princess Belle, couples can apply their own meaning to traditions like carrying the bride over the threshold, and make them "new" in that way.

You know, they use that term "the new classic" in advertising—I think we have the freedom, well even straight people have the freedom, to reinvent traditions as our own.

Carrying someone over the threshold could be, "We will honor our different strengths. Your muscles carried me over the threshold but my salary got us the room. We'll pool our resources and together make a great team."

Good idea. Sounds like that could even be a great thread. State a tradition then research the actual real meaning and then make a new meaning.

I like it

Or is there a thread like that? A thread of new traditions. Would be interesting to read what other peeps traditions are as well.

Just a thought.

[Ginger]

Originally Posted by princessbelle

Good idea. Sounds like that could even be a great thread. State a tradition then research the actual real meaning and then make a new meaning.

I like it

Or is there a thread like that? A thread of new traditions. Would be interesting to read what other peeps traditions are as well.

Just a thought.

I bet so many thoughtful couples are already doing that; carefully considering the meaning behind what they're doing and taking a conscious role in shaping it. I agree, it would be interested to hear about.

[girl_dee]

in the end we all get to decide what works for us. For me, i don't tend to adopt the traditional ways. Like i haven't and would never take another's name in marriage. It' s lovely that some do but i am not giving up or changing my name for the sake of tradition. i feel like more of a well rounded individual with my own set of beliefs, spirituality and traditions, rather than adopting my partners. Again that's my own stance.

[Corkey]

I think the blending of lives should always be up to the couple doing it. Ours was and is a amalgamation of who we are as a couple and as individuals. So we're happy, that I believe is as it should be.

[princessbelle]

Originally Posted by Corkey

I think the blending of lives should always be up to the couple doing it. Ours was and is a amalgamation of who we are as a couple and as individuals. So we're happy, that I believe is as it should be.

Absolutely!!!!! Bully and i have our own traditions as well. I find those very fascinating and also what the meanings of those are "way back when". I was just thinking it may be a good thread.

I didn't mean to imply we don't have our own traditions. As couples or singles.

Just thought it was interesting.

[Bard]

Originally Posted by Corkey

I think the blending of lives should always be up to the couple doing it. Ours was and is a amalgamation of who we are as a couple and as individuals. So we're happy, that I believe is as it should be.

I am with you on this and really it is what Desd and I did in our wedding it was held in a place that was special to me kind of like my place of peace. The Minister that gave us a blessing he is a dear friend that I have worked with for a long time and he is a man I go to when I am troubled part of his blessing was that we were already married that this was our sharing our comitment with our family and friends blending our family. My daughter was a very important part of the whole ceremony as the pagan minister said to us this in not a union of two but of three my Goose may be young but no less important. My Father was in the front row proud as hell when we were renting the tuxes desd and I had said to the fathers that they could have a vest color that matched our mothers, now I told my dad that Ihad changed his color to match my mom his responce to me was that I was to cahnge it back he was my father and he wanted to be just like me. Our parents were a important part of the wedding not because we expected them to help us oot with expences but becasue they wanted to help to make this day special for us. . There was a chance that our wedding would be protested as it was the first legal same sex wedding at Syracuse University and I can tell you my best man would have defended us to the hilt as would have the rest of my officers. I guess what I am trying to say is that I love and respect my fatehr - in - law I asked him for the privlage to marry into his family for his blessing I asked MY Father also for his blessing and because it was important to me that he be a part of one of his childrens wedding day. Our wedding day was a wonderful beautiful day filled with love and support it was amazing I know Desd and I are very blessed

[Parker]

Originally Posted by BullDog

Yes exactly! I wore a tux last year to the Reunion and will wear one this year. If I get married I will be wearing one as well. I will be a butch groom, not representing the man.

I do not subscribe to butch=male; femme=female. Some do, but I do not.

This. I love this - butch groom. I am tucking that away for the future.

Also, I dont subscribe to butch=male; femme=female either.

[girl_dee]

When i tended bar i was told never to let a woman's shoe touch the bar, that it was bad luck.

i didn't get it.

[girl_dee]

Tying The Knot

The expression "tie the knot" comes from Roman times when the bride wore a girdle that was tied in knots which the groom had the fun of untying.

[Ginger]

Originally Posted by Cajun_dee

Tying The Knot

The expression "tie the knot" comes from Roman times when the bride wore a girdle that was tied in knots which the groom had the fun of untying.

Fun! I could that being made contemporary by creative couples, for sure.

[Kobi]

Originally Posted by Cajun_dee

Tying The Knot

The expression "tie the knot" comes from Roman times when the bride wore a girdle that was tied in knots which the groom had the fun of untying.

Or,

Tying the Knot - Calling marriage "tying the knot" stems from ancient times. The Danish used to tie two pieces of cord or ribbon together in the marriage ceremony to signify the couple’s becoming one. Later the custom spread to Holland and England.

http://limarriages.com/customs.html

One could spend hours (and I have cuz it is tickling my curiosity) trying to trace all the parts of traditions from all over the world. God only knows what the truth is tho. LOL.

[Martina]

I thought the threshold thing had to do with doors being bad luck. If she stepped on it or fell, then the marriage would be cursed. Or something like that.

[Kobi]

Originally Posted by Martina

I thought the threshold thing had to do with doors being bad luck. If she stepped on it or fell, then the marriage would be cursed. Or something like that.

The history is fascinating to weed thru. The threshold thing has changed throughout the ages, differing in cultures and countries, and folklore. The point you make was valid at one time as well.

Interesting to see how things have changed and continue to change.