The Femmes That Love You...

[Kent]

Just a little Love Bump...

[Darbonaire]

"VS" does not mean against..it means either/ or...I have been pondering this very question for awhile now. I do not identify or refer to myself as "trans". I am male...always have been. I had the benefit of being raised with the opportunity to explore my female side & that makes me an even more well-rounded person I think. Anyway, the other day a dear friend of mine & I were talking, & I was discussing a probelm I was having in my relationship...I have no idea what the problem was now but, my friend said, "Well sweetie...that's becaue you don't identify as a trans-man...you identify as a man." I thought about this & then got caught up in life & it went by the wayside. I do have to wonder though...for others....how do you see yourself or ID yourself? If you ID as "trans" what does that mean to you & why? If you ID as male...same thing....what & why?

I am curious since I never thought there was such a thing....lol....I do know that straight women bore me...plus, I have missed my lesbian & gay friends. So, even though I am male.....I love lesbians.....I look at it this way....

Lucky Me !!!

All responses are welcome...

Jonathan

[Kent]

I thought we were gonna have some femmes come in and love on us..

[Dance-with-me]

Originally Posted by Kent

I thought we were gonna have some femmes come in and love on us..

You've got to EARN the love, cowboy.

This is an excellent conversation - thanks for bumping it.

(and I'll say in advance that I am tired, loopy from some Benadryl, I'm responding from my phone, so please excuse any nonsensical meandering rambles, typos, and weird auto corrects.)

I ID as a queer femme because I find myself attracted pretty much exclusively to very masculine butch's or trans guys, and not at all significantly attracted to more feminine or androgynous women - or to cis-guys. I have attempted at times to explain it or even just understand for myself, but really it just is what it is.

But when I have dated transmen in the past, and it definitely brought up in me some of the same issues that some of the other femme here have mentioned, especially in terms of the invisibility I face as someone who is queer. My own identity is never defined by my relationship to someone else, but at the same time, what I lose when dating a transman is the ability to just be myself and automatically be out about my own identity. When someone who looks like me discusses the person I'm seeing using male pronouns, and walks down the street with somebody who is coearly male, the only way to be out about my own identity is to be very deliberate about coming out - i lase the option of being out just by being myself.

But at the same time, I would absolutely respect my lover/partners/whatever's choice to notrelative as trans or with relating to him as simply male and not as trans.

There are just no easy answers for this, because of course I have just as much right to maintain and be clear about my own identity as any Transguy has a right to be clear about his own identity.

So I'm just really curious. This question is for the post transition guys who identify only as male and not as trans, and who completely pass as male. In what ways (if any) do you feel completely comfortable supporting your femme's assertion of her own queer identity. And in what ways would you like to see her handle the questions she would receive from her friends, community, family, coworkers, about why after so many years she has chosen to date/be partnered with a guy?

Please give your answer from the standpoint that your femme is 100% excepting and respecting who you are and how you identify.

[GraffitiBoi]

Originally Posted by Dance-with-me

I ID as a queer femme because I find myself attracted pretty much exclusively to very masculine butch's or trans guys, and not at all significantly attracted to more feminine or androgynous women - or to cis-guys. I have attempted at times to explain it or even just understand for myself, but really it just is what it is.

I was discussing labels recently and this very topic came up between a femme and myself. (For gender I ID as FTM/genderqueer/boi/whatever. For sexuality I just identify as queer. I only am attracted to and date femme cis-women.) I like how you ID as a queer femme and I think I may refer her to this post.

But when I have dated transmen in the past, and it definitely brought up in me some of the same issues that some of the other femme here have mentioned, especially in terms of the invisibility I face as someone who is queer. My own identity is never defined by my relationship to someone else, but at the same time, what I lose when dating a transman is the ability to just be myself and automatically be out about my own identity. When someone who looks like me discusses the person I'm seeing using male pronouns, and walks down the street with somebody who is coearly male, the only way to be out about my own identity is to be very deliberate about coming out - i lase the option of being out just by being myself.

But at the same time, I would absolutely respect my lover/partners/whatever's choice to notrelative as trans or with relating to him as simply male and not as trans.

The last girl I dated (She is not on this site, nor will she ever be) had such an issue with how I identified that she tried to physically change me. She tried to get me to grow my hair and nails and dress at least more androgynous, if not feminine. When I told her that just wasn't me she would talk down to me, treat me like a child and idiot, refuse to speak to me, and cancelled plans we had together. She said she is a lesbian and only dates other lesbians. I am post top-op and had been on hormones since 2003. She knew who and what I was when she met me and said it's the person, not the appearance, that she falls in love with. She changed her mind when people in public assumed we were a straight couple.

There are just no easy answers for this, because of course I have just as much right to maintain and be clear about my own identity as any Transguy has a right to be clear about his own identity.

I tried to find a balance for us but nothing would make her happy unless people thought I was female and a lesbian right along with her. I'm just too much boi to be comfortable with that. Funny thing is, even without me around people assume she's straight. It frustrates her, especially when all I can say when she complains about it is "sorry."

So I'm just really curious. This question is for the post transition guys who identify only as male and not as trans, and who completely pass as male. In what ways (if any) do you feel completely comfortable supporting your femme's assertion of her own queer identity. And in what ways would you like to see her handle the questions she would receive from her friends, community, family, coworkers, about why after so many years she has chosen to date/be partnered with a guy?

I can completely pass as male when I feel like it, but I do identify as trans and not male, so I'll let one of the men on here answer this part.

Please give your answer from the standpoint that your femme is 100% excepting and respecting who you are and how you identify.

Sorry, I just had to throw in the experience I had with one who was not understanding. Unfortunately I have not had the opportunity to date anyone who does accept it 100% Someday I will, I can't give up hope yet.

[FemmeBibliophile]

Sorry, I just had to throw in the experience I had with one who was not understanding. Unfortunately I have not had the opportunity to date anyone who does accept it 100% Someday I will, I can't give up hope yet.

Yes... someday you will! And just so you know before you come out in December, I am 100% accepting. Be who you are. It's what makes me happy (you just being you).

[Darbonaire]

My ex wife....bless her for this......was so excited when we first met she talked to her freinds about me.....she told them I was trans...<cringe>...I cringe because I believe it is my choice to "out" that or not....I believe it's everyone's OWN choice....anyway, she didn't know, she was just so excited to share her joy, & it didn't cause problems & it was all ok. it just wasn't the way I would have liked. I was just beginning the "alignment", as I call it, so I looked like a masculine person but not totally passing as male. After time passed I'm sure she may have gotten questions from folks since she had been very definitely an out lesbian before "us". I don't know how she dealt with it but, she would handle it in a comfortable way for herself I am sure.

I know that I don't really "fit" in the straight world because it bores me, & I am FAR from boring.....LOL....I'm not sure I'd like walking down the street with my partner on my arm & run in to her friends & have her say..."Oh, well he WAS a girl once"...<shudder>.....I guess, if the woman / femme felt her friends were important enough to her to share then, I'd like to think we could all get together & let us BOTH explain it.....again...good question....I really do find femmes MUCH more interesting than straight women....I just do.

[Dance-with-me]

Originally Posted by Darbonaire

I know that I don't really "fit" in the straight world because it bores me, & I am FAR from boring.....LOL....I'm not sure I'd like walking down the street with my partner on my arm & run in to her friends & have her say..."Oh, well he WAS a girl once"...<shudder>.....I guess, if the woman / femme felt her friends were important enough to her to share then, I'd like to think we could all get together & let us BOTH explain it.....again...good question....I really do find femmes MUCH more interesting than straight women....I just do.

I'm guessing from how you put this that it would very much depend on both the femme and the friends. My friends would think I'd suddenly turned into an insensitive idiot if I were to say anything even remotely along the lines of "Oh, well he WAS a girl once" because that's just not something I would ever say or a mindset I would ever have.

With my friends, for example, it would be a simple matter of "well I started dating this guy Bob, he's a transguy who lives in Baltimore, he's 52 and has a grown son in college, and is a programmer with..." and that would likely be the last I've ever need to mention that he was trans - because my friends, and even my family for the most part, know that's how I roll. And sitting them down to explain it would be as ludicrous as sitting them down to explain that he was Buddhist (though of course I would be expected to seriously explain myself if he were a fundamentalist Christian, and my mother would never accept my dating an out Republican. ).

But if I failed to include that one piece of information with my close friends and close family, since it's been 32 years since I've been with a cis-guy, that's when their heads would spin and they would start giving me the third degree. I would actually have to directly and deliberately lie to my friends and family in order to not out the person I was seeing.

And yet at the same time, I totally get and respect the need to be seen and respected as just a guy, and the right to choose for himself whether or not he's out.

As I write this, I realize that maybe the difference --at least to me -- is that the people in my life that I would say that to are people who WOULD see and respect and accept a trans guy as just a guy. And the ones who wouldn't get that, such as coworkers and acquaintances, are people I wouldn't talk to about the details of my life anyway, and I probably end up getting a real kick out of watching their heads spin at the thought of my suddenly being straight in their eyes.

[Darbonaire]

Originally Posted by Dance-with-me

I'm guessing from how you put this that it would very much depend on both the femme and the friends. My friends would think I'd suddenly turned into an insensitive idiot if I were to say anything even remotely along the lines of "Oh, well he WAS a girl once" because that's just not something I would ever say or a mindset I would ever have.

With my friends, for example, it would be a simple matter of "well I started dating this guy Bob, he's a transguy who lives in Baltimore, he's 52 and has a grown son in college, and is a programmer with..." and that would likely be the last I've ever need to mention that he was trans - because my friends, and even my family for the most part, know that's how I roll. And sitting them down to explain it would be as ludicrous as sitting them down to explain that he was Buddhist (though of course I would be expected to seriously explain myself if he were a fundamentalist Christian, and my mother would never accept my dating an out Republican. ).

But if I failed to include that one piece of information with my close friends and close family, since it's been 32 years since I've been with a cis-guy, that's when their heads would spin and they would start giving me the third degree. I would actually have to directly and deliberately lie to my friends and family in order to not out the person I was seeing.

And yet at the same time, I totally get and respect the need to be seen and respected as just a guy, and the right to choose for himself whether or not he's out.

As I write this, I realize that maybe the difference --at least to me -- is that the people in my life that I would say that to are people who WOULD see and respect and accept a trans guy as just a guy. And the ones who wouldn't get that, such as coworkers and acquaintances, are people I wouldn't talk to about the details of my life anyway, and I probably end up getting a real kick out of watching their heads spin at the thought of my suddenly being straight in their eyes.

Just an example of how awful something could be....it wouldn;t most likely happen that way & if it were to....well, the woman & I would be having a REAL heart to heart chat....lol....I agree that the people in someone's life who would "get it" would be fine.....