For Classic Movie Fans

[Jet]

Originally Posted by cinderella

Yes, Ginger is a sweetheart.
Along the Noir side, I love Barbara Stanwyck the best. Did you see The Strange Love of Martha Ivers? I love that film. Among other Stanwyck films, I think my favorite is 'Sorry Wrong Number' - I just love that movie!! Then there was another one called No Man of Her Own, I think, not sure. Great film, and not shown as often as it should be. I just love Stanwyck, I wish they would do a retrospective or Star of the Month on her. She, I think, is under-appreciated by today's audiences who are into classic film.

I love Stanwyck bar none. And I just watched "Martha Ivers" the night before last on tape. I have quite a few of hers and one of the things I like about her is that she transitioned into the 50s pretty well, unlike Crawford and some others who, I think, were overdone. One of my favorites from the 50s is "Jeapordy" with Stanwyck, Barry Sullivan and Ralph Meeker (whose a prick in this)
and another one that I would like to have is "The File on on Thelma Jordan" with her and Wendel Corey. I think that came out in the late 40s...more Mystery and mayhem.....

as a sidebar on Stanwyck, I think my favorite performance is Stella Dallas...and she should have one, she was nominated. There is another film earlier with her, and directed by Frank Capra. Saw it one time, forget the name, and I would like to have it...it's a drama.

[cinderella]

Yes, she was fantastic in Stella Dallas - I thought she had won an Oscar for that. I did love her in 'Babyface', 1930-something...

Hmmmm. Frank Capra & Stanwyck...can't say I remember anything like that, I'll have to do some researching...maybe IMDB.com?

In any case, I've got to agree on Stanwyck (aka Ruby Stevens from Brooklyn) - she certainly was a pip! I loved just about anything she did. You do know about her 'lavendar marriage' to Robert Taylor? Yes, of course you do. She has been accused of being gay, but nothing nor no one (that I know of) had come forth to attest to that, though there were many suspicions, but nothing concrete ever came forward. I think it was something - that if true - she took to her grave. Tho, remember her role as a lesbian in 'Walk On The Wild Side'. I was really surprised she consented to doing that, being as concervative as she was about her personal life.

Originally Posted by Jet

I love Stanwyck bar none. And I just watched "Martha Ivers" the night before last on tape. I have quite a few of hers and one of the things I like about her is that she transitioned into the 50s pretty well, unlike Crawford and some others who, I think, were overdone. One of my favorites from the 50s is "Jeapordy" with Stanwyck, Barry Sullivan and Ralph Meeker (whose a prick in this)
and another one that I would like to have is "The File on on Thelma Jordan" with her and Wendel Corey. I think that came out in the late 40s...more Mystery and mayhem.....

as a sidebar on Stanwyck, I think my favorite performance is Stella Dallas...and she should have one, she was nominated. There is another film earlier with her, and directed by Frank Capra. Saw it one time, forget the name, and I would like to have it...it's a drama.

[Jet]

Originally Posted by cinderella

Yes, she was fantastic in Stella Dallas - I thought she had won an Oscar for that. I did love her in 'Babyface', 1930-something...

Hmmmm. Frank Capra & Stanwyck...can't say I remember anything like that, I'll have to do some researching...maybe IMDB.com?
In any case, I've got to agree on Stanwyck (aka Ruby Stevens from Brooklyn) - she certainly was a pip! I loved just about anything she did. You do know about her 'lavendar marriage' to Robert Taylor? Yes, of course you do. She has been accused of being gay, but nothing nor no one (that I know of) had come forth to attest to that, though there were many suspicions, but nothing concrete ever came forward. I think it was something - that if true - she took to her grave. Tho, remember her role as a lesbian in 'Walk On The Wild Side'. I was really surprised she consented to doing that, being as concervative as she was about her personal life.

yes, i've heard that...but almost everyone was accused at one time or another it seems

[Jet]

There is nothing I can offer a comment on that has not already been said about Elizabeth Taylor.

So I'll just say I love Elizabeth Taylor. Diverse, legendary and from there the adjectives roll on. For me it is her presence and the fact that she is a station from my generation.

Beautiful? It hardly deserves a comment. I know I will miss her when it's time.
But the good part is that films like Giant, Butterfield 8, A Place in the Sun, Suddenly Last Summer
and many more will continually give us...Elizabeth Taylor. And as a fan and an American who grew up
with Hollywood's golden age and classic performers, I'm honored.

[Jet]

Triple Feature!
Three Big Movies!
Three Big Stars
Three Modern Cowboys!

Steve McQueen in Baby, The Rain Must Fall, 1965
Paul Newman in Hud, 1963
Kirk Douglas in Lonely Are the Brave, 1962

Considered the best of their best!

Baby the Rain Must Fall
Henry Thomas is out on parole in a small Texan town and, in the evenings, he is the lead singer in a band. He is being pressured by his foster mother to give up his singing and go back to school. His wife, Georgette, and young daughter unexpectedly come to town to live with him. However Henry's hot temper leads him into knife fights, and jeopardizes his parole.



________________________________

Hud
Hud Bannon is a ruthless young man who tarnishes everything and everyone he touches. Hud represents the perfect embodiment of alienated youth, out for kicks with no regard for the consequences. There is bitter conflict between the callous Hud and his stern and highly principled father, Homer. Hud's nephew Lon admires Hud's cheating ways, though he soon becomes aware of Hud's reckless amorality to bear him anymore. In the world of the takers and the taken, Hud is a winner. He's a cheat, but, he explains "I always say the law was meant to be interpreted in a lenient manner."



________________________________

Lonely Are the Brave
When itinerant cowboy and drifter Jack Burns reads that his old friend Paul Bondi has been sentenced to two years for aiding and abetting illegal immigrants, he returns to Duke City, New Mexico to Bondi's home. After a reunion with Bondi's wife Jerry, with whom he has a very close relationship, the nonconformist Burns sets out to join his old friend in the county jail on a drunk and disorderly charge. Burns gets into a brawl in a local cantina, but when the police decide to release him because of jail overcrowding, he assaults a policeman. Now facing a seemingly unendurable one year term. Burns is disappointed to find that his friend does not want to escape but do his time and return to his family. Using two hacksaws smuggled in his boot, Burns breaks out of jail and heads for the Mexican border. Now facing a five year term for his escape, a sentence he could not endure because of his fiercely independent nature, he and his faithful horse Whisky race up a mountaintop to freedom with the authorities in pursuit.



See ya at the movies......

[Hack]

Originally Posted by Jet

I love Stanwyck bar none. And I just watched "Martha Ivers" the night before last on tape. I have quite a few of hers and one of the things I like about her is that she transitioned into the 50s pretty well, unlike Crawford and some others who, I think, were overdone. One of my favorites from the 50s is "Jeapordy" with Stanwyck, Barry Sullivan and Ralph Meeker (whose a prick in this)
and another one that I would like to have is "The File on on Thelma Jordan" with her and Wendel Corey. I think that came out in the late 40s...more Mystery and mayhem.....

as a sidebar on Stanwyck, I think my favorite performance is Stella Dallas...and she should have one, she was nominated. There is another film earlier with her, and directed by Frank Capra. Saw it one time, forget the name, and I would like to have it...it's a drama.

Double Indemnity. Hands down, one of my favorite movies.

A few years ago, I ran across an old copy of Architectural Digest that featured homes from Hollywood's golden age (1920s-1940s). In it, one of the homes featured was that of Barbara Stanwyck and Robert Taylor, and the text with the photo layout talked about how theirs was an arranged marriage, because she was famously lesbian and he was quite gay. Their home was arranged for by the studio (MGM) and the vintage photos that were included in the article were from the studio's archive of a photo shoot the studio did to show the "happy home life of the happy couple" in an effort to dispel the rumors plaguing both stars about their private lives. It was fascinating, really.

Jake

[Jet]

Originally Posted by Hack

Double Indemnity. Hands down, one of my favorite movies.

A few years ago, I ran across an old copy of Architectural Digest that featured homes from Hollywood's golden age (1920s-1940s). In it, one of the homes featured was that of Barbara Stanwyck and Robert Taylor, and the text with the photo layout talked about how theirs was an arranged marriage, because she was famously lesbian and he was quite gay. Their home was arranged for by the studio (MGM) and the vintage photos that were included in the article were from the studio's archive of a photo shoot the studio did to show the "happy home life of the happy couple" in an effort to dispel the rumors plaguing both stars about t

Originally Posted by Hack

heir private lives. It was fascinating, really.

Jake

thanks for this nice post jake. Carmen alluded to their sexuality in an earlier post. as you know, everything was controlled under the studio system so none of this surprises me. This is an opportune time to remind old movie fans that

APRIL IS ROBERT TAYLOR MONTH ON TCM

My personal Taylor favorite being Westward the Women. see you at the movies.....

[Hack]

Waterloo Bridge...another fave.

[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRfEKZUNl3A"]YouTube- Farewell Waltz - Waterloo Bridge[/nomedia]

[Jet]

Double feature
with Susan Hayward

Two memorable life stories!
With A Song in My Heart!
I'll Cry Tomorrow!

With A Song in My Heart based on the life of singer, Jane Froman
Jane Froman (Susan Hayward), an aspiring songstress, lands a job in radio with help from pianist Don Ross (David Wayne), whom she later marries. Jane's popularity soars, and she leaves on a European tour... but her plane crashes in Lisbon, and she is partially crippled. Unable to walk without crutches, Jane nevertheless goes on to entertain the Allied troops in World War II.


I'll Cry Tomorrow based on the autobiography of actress, Lillian Roth
Deprived of a normal childhood by her ambitious mother, Katie, Lillian Roth becomes a star of Broadway and Hollywood before she is twenty. Shortly before her marriage to her childhood sweetheart, David Tredman, he dies and Lillian takes her first drink of many down the road of becoming an alcoholic. She enters into a short-lived marriage to an immature aviation cadet, Wallie, followed by a divorce and then marriage to a sadistic brute and abuser Tony Bardeman. After a failed suicide attempt, Burt McGuire comes to her aid and helps her find the road back to happiness after sixteen years in a nightmare world, not counting the first twenty with her mother.


See ya at the movies.....

[Julien]

hey everyone,
Susan Hayward is a favorite of mine. I haven't seen a film of hers in a while. I hope all is well.
G

[Jet]

Originally Posted by Graphiteta2s

hey everyone,
Susan Hayward is a favorite of mine. I haven't seen a film of hers in a while. I hope all is well.
G

uh...yer not gettin off that easy .....we know you teach film...git yer butt back in here and learn us some new tricks on old films....

[Julien]

Originally Posted by Jet

uh...yer not gettin off that easy .....we know you teach film...git yer butt back in here and learn us some new tricks on old films....

hey Jet,
I hear ya. So you want to talk film do you? Here is a list of what I've taught:
1. The Women Who Know Too Much: Women and Violence in the Films by Alfred Hitchcock
2. Gender Passing in Narrative Film
3. Women and Madness in Narrative Film
4. What do Invasion of the Body Snatchers, On the Waterfront Elia Kazan and Communism Have in Common? A Look at the House of Un-American Activities Committee and the Hollywood Blacklist
5. Cinema and the Law: Trial Films
6. The Bad and the Beautiful: Women in Film Noir
7. The Lesbian Character in Film
8. Deviant Desires: Femme Fatales, Crones, Lesbians and Female Friendship
9. Intro to Film Studies

I use feminist film theory, queer theory, mainstream film theory in my writing. I also have an interest in the graphic novel.

How's that to start?

[Jet]

Excellent post and very interesting. I have comments and probably questions on some things right off the bat. I have to finsih working out and then I'm going to spend time in here later. it's 9:30 EDT.

And that Elia Kazan thing is huge and there's a "catharsis" (I don't think that's the right word) around all that....kind of like Arthur Miller's Crucible had a thing going on too. Kazan snitched, if I remember right, and Miller condemned the House with the Crucible, but we'll talk later.

Excellent stuff...welcome back to the thread. I would be more interested in 1, 3, 4, 5 and 6. (I dont ID as a lesbian, I'm male-transgendered) so i don't have quite knowledge or level of interest on those aspects of film as much as I do on these other topics.

catch ya later

Originally Posted by Graphiteta2s

hey Jet,
I hear ya. So you want to talk film do you? Here is a list of what I've taught:
1. The Women Who Know Too Much: Women and Violence in the Films by Alfred Hitchcock
2. Gender Passing in Narrative Film
3. Women and Madness in Narrative Film
4. What do Invasion of the Body Snatchers, On the Waterfront Elia Kazan and Communism Have in Common? A Look at the House of Un-American Activities Committee and the Hollywood Blacklist
5. Cinema and the Law: Trial Films
6. The Bad and the Beautiful: Women in Film Noir
7. The Lesbian Character in Film
8. Deviant Desires: Femme Fatales, Crones, Lesbians and Female Friendship
9. Intro to Film Studies

I use feminist film theory, queer theory, mainstream film theory in my writing. I also have an interest in the graphic novel.

How's that to start?

[Julien]

Originally Posted by Jet

Excellent post and very interesting. I have comments and probably questions on some things right off the bat. I have to finsih working out and then I'm going to spend time in here later. it's 9:30 EDT.

And that Elia Kazan thing is huge and there's a "catharsis" (I don't think that's the right word) around all that....kind of like Arthur Miller's Crucible had a thing going on too. Kazan snitched, if I remember right, and Miller condemned the House with the Crucible, but we'll talk later.

Excellent stuff...welcome back to the thread. I would be more interested in 1, 3, 4, 5 and 6. (I dont ID as a lesbian, I'm male-transgendered) so i don't have quite knowledge or level of interest on those aspects of film as much as I do on these other topics.

catch ya later

You're right about the Kazan and Miller connection. I actually use the Crucible in that class. I also use the HUAC hearings transcripts, which I haven't looked at in a while. So it's been a couple of years ago that I taught that particular course. The last one I taught was Hitchcock. I am a huge fan of his work. I understand that you might not be interested in all the topics and that's fine. I also identify as trans FTM. Talk to you later.

[Jet]

Originally Posted by Graphiteta2s

hey Jet,
I hear ya. So you want to talk film do you? Here is a list of what I've taught:
1. The Women Who Know Too Much: Women and Violence in the Films by Alfred Hitchcock

I'm not aware of your vantage point or your theories, so I'm just going to comment from a fan's perspective, not having studied film formally, but observed through the years. I wanted to be an actor and a screenwriter when I was younger and so I've had a love affair with the movies ever since I was a kid. Isn't that how it usually starts? I know it did for Scorsese among others. Just commenting off the cuff here...I think Hitch was kind of half and half on movies involving women being victimized. And just taking a quick look at victims vs. heroines it looks kind of even to me, even tilting more toward women being heroines or shining through in some way.

His victims:

The Birds-she's totalled
Dial M for Murder - she gets justice but was violated nonetheless
Rear Window- both catagories because a woman is murdered
Psycho-she's totalled
Strangers On a Train (Robert Walker was such a maniac-and he totalled a woman)
Notorious- She barely made it through
North by Northwest - Eva Marie Saint is an intended victim
Vertigo- she's totalled
Frenzy- She's totalled
The Paradine Case-love this movie and she's her own enemy

Women who shine through as heroines
or whose characters were not objects of violence:

Rebecca (my favorite) she comes through okay
Shadow of a Doubt (love this movie)
Marnie- who overcame
The Man Who Knew Too Much-
Rear Window (Grace Kelly being really strong and gutsy)
Spellbound- Ingrid Bergman is the heroine
Lifeboat- damn tough women in there/Tallulah and the gang
Suspicion-I'm going to put it here just because he really wasn't after her,
she only thought so.
Saboteur-great movie and Priscilla Lane's character doesn't choke
Mr. and Mrs. Smith-no victims
To Catch a Thief - no victim in the central characters
Foreign Correspondent-
Torn Curtain-spy stuff
Topaz
The Trouble With Harry
The Wrong Man-talk about a victim---a male victim here.

I'm not commenting on:
Jamaica Inn
Stage Fright
Rope-this is about guys
Under Capricorn
39 Steps-I can't remember of Madeleine Carroll gets in trouble or not
I Confess
Family Plot

just because I haven't seen them in sooooo long.

I love Hitch and his movies, except for the British silents, because i never saw them. But I never considered "women and violence" in the same sentence regarding his films. To me, his movies were more about suspense and mystery as a whole and throughout the movement of the stories. I don't separate women and violence out because there were plenty of male characters who were victims in his movies as well such as The Wrong Man... Just my .02

One thing's for sure.....he loved blonds...

See ya at the movies....

[Julien]

hey Jet,
I did use a couple of silent films in my class. They were Blackmail and The Lodger. You probably know the background of the films even if you've never seen them. The Lodger is based on Jack the Ripper, a killer who only kills blonds Blackmail is about a woman who is raped and kills her attacker, but is blackmailed by another person.

I can tell you're a great fan of Hitchcock. One thing I'd like to add is that the violence towards women doesn't necessarily mean death or focused on the lead actress. It can be the overall feel of how he treats women in his films. As you rightly pointed out, for example, The Birds is filled with violence against women, with Annie Hayworth being killed and Melanie Daniels being tortured by the birds themselves. In Rear Window, Grace Kelley's character is abused by the killer when he roughs her up. She is also emotionally abused by James Stewart's character.

While it is true that possibly not all the lead actress are physically abused, they may be abused in other ways. Trauma can take on many forms. I will also agree that the trauma/abuse may not occur in every single Hitchcock film, but it is evident enough throughout a majority of his films to be considered a topic for study or discussion.

You must also consider how the film is shot and how he objectifies his female characters. The camera can cut as deep as a knife. These are just thoughts off the top of my head.

G

[cinderella]

As usual, my cinema comrade, your post is insightful, informative, and interesting The 3 'I's...

I'm a blond, do you suppose he'd have a thing for me? Maybe not so much - he was chubby, but I'm sure he didn't like 'chubs', lol.

Glad to see the thread's been resusitated - it's been 'sleeping' for quite a while.

Hey, Monty, how are you? Glad you're back!

Originally Posted by Jet

I'm not aware of your vantage point or your theories, so I'm just going to comment from a fan's perspective, not having studied film formally, but observed through the years. I wanted to be an actor and a screenwriter when I was younger and so I've had a love affair with the movies ever since I was a kid. Isn't that how it usually starts? I know it did for Scorsese among others. Just commenting off the cuff here...I think Hitch was kind of half and half on movies involving women being victimized. And just taking a quick look at victims vs. heroines it looks kind of even to me, even tilting more toward women being heroines or shining through in some way.

His victims:

The Birds-she's totalled
Dial M for Murder - she gets justice but was violated nonetheless
Rear Window- both catagories because a woman is murdered
Psycho-she's totalled
Strangers On a Train (Robert Walker was such a maniac-and he totalled a woman)
Notorious- She barely made it through
North by Northwest - Eva Marie Saint is an intended victim
Vertigo- she's totalled
Frenzy- She's totalled
The Paradine Case-love this movie and she's her own enemy

Women who shine through as heroines
or whose characters were not objects of violence:

Rebecca (my favorite) she comes through okay
Shadow of a Doubt (love this movie)
Marnie- who overcame
The Man Who Knew Too Much-
Rear Window (Grace Kelly being really strong and gutsy)
Spellbound- Ingrid Bergman is the heroine
Lifeboat- damn tough women in there/Tallulah and the gang
Suspicion-I'm going to put it here just because he really wasn't after her,
she only thought so.
Saboteur-great movie and Priscilla Lane's character doesn't choke
Mr. and Mrs. Smith-no victims
To Catch a Thief - no victim in the central characters
Foreign Correspondent-
Torn Curtain-spy stuff
Topaz
The Trouble With Harry
The Wrong Man-talk about a victim---a male victim here.

I'm not commenting on:
Jamaica Inn
Stage Fright
Rope-this is about guys
Under Capricorn
39 Steps-I can't remember of Madeleine Carroll gets in trouble or not
I Confess
Family Plot

just because I haven't seen them in sooooo long.

I love Hitch and his movies, except for the British silents, because i never saw them. But I never considered "women and violence" in the same sentence regarding his films. To me, his movies were more about suspense and mystery as a whole and throughout the movement of the stories. I don't separate women and violence out because there were plenty of male characters who were victims in his movies as well such as The Wrong Man... Just my .02

One thing's for sure.....he loved blonds...

See ya at the movies....

[cinderella]

I haven't seen the 1927 or 1932 versions of 'The Lodger' (which reminds me of 'Night Must Fall' w/Robert Montgomery & Rosalind Russel), but I did see the 1944 remake with Laird Creger as Mr. Slade (suspected by his landlady of being Jack the Ripper). Good cast with Merle Oberon playing Kitty Langley, the actress, and current love/hate interest of The Lodger. Sir Cedric Hardwicke & Sara Allgood play Robert & Ellen Bonting, Kitty's uncle and aunt. Good movie.

Originally Posted by Graphiteta2s

[FONT="Comic Sans MS"][COLOR="DarkRed"]hey Jet,
I did use a couple of silent films in my class. They were Blackmail and The Lodger. You probably know the background of the films even if you've never seen them. The Lodger is based on Jack the Ripper, a killer who only kills blonds Blackmail is about a woman who is raped and kills her attacker, but is blackmailed by another person.

[Jet]

Originally Posted by Graphiteta2s

hey Jet,
I did use a couple of silent films in my class. They were Blackmail and The Lodger. You probably know the background of the films even if you've never seen them. The Lodger is based on Jack the Ripper, a killer who only kills blonds Blackmail is about a woman who is raped and kills her attacker, but is blackmailed by another person.

I can tell you're a great fan of Hitchcock. One thing I'd like to add is that the violence towards women doesn't necessarily mean death or focused on the lead actress. It can be the overall feel of how he treats women in his films. As you rightly pointed out, for example, The Birds is filled with violence against women, with Annie Hayworth being killed and Melanie Daniels being tortured by the birds themselves. In Rear Window, Grace Kelley's character is abused by the killer when he roughs her up. She is also emotionally abused by James Stewart's character.

While it is true that possibly not all the lead actress are physically abused, they may be abused in other ways. Trauma can take on many forms. I will also agree that the trauma/abuse may not occur in every single Hitchcock film, but it is evident enough throughout a majority of his films to be considered a topic for study or discussion.

You must also consider how the film is shot and how he objectifies his female characters. The camera can cut as deep as a knife. These are just thoughts off the top of my head.

G

You're right, I know other women were victims in his movies, and If women are meant to be objectified than they are because of the story. But I still don't see it as a separate facet, but suspense overall. Again, there's also males who are objectified, I think. And as far camera work, I thought it was really eventful most of the time, not just surrounding the scenes with women being murdered or victimized. I think it's interesting to note, for instance, the gun scene in Spellbound when Leo Carrol (Ithink its Leo Carrol, it's been awhile since I've seen it) points the gun at Ingrid Bergman, there's no rack focus as we look down the barrel, both the gun and Bergman are in focus, there was trick to it, but I forget how he did it. And putting a light in the glass of milk to make it look more menacing in Suspicion. The falling effects in Vertigo and so many other things. I think that's why call him the master of suspense, all of what he did was suspense, including no music score or very litte the Birds and then using Bernard Herrman's eerie music in other films, And I have to say I Iove the music in Marnie and I added it to my collection. It's beautiful.

[Julien]

Originally Posted by cinderella

As usual, my cinema comrade, your post is insightful, informative, and interesting The 3 'I's...

I'm a blond, do you suppose he'd have a thing for me? Maybe not so much - he was chubby, but I'm sure he didn't like 'chubs', lol.

Glad to see the thread's been resusitated - it's been 'sleeping' for quite a while.

Hey, Monty, how are you? Glad you're back!

hey Cinderella,
good to be back. I'm doing just fine thank you. I hope you are well.
Monty