Boston Marathon bombings.......

[Wolfsong]

Originally Posted by Kobi

In a post on the website of libertarian activist Lew Rockwell, Mr. Paul said Monday that the governmental reaction to the tragic explosions was worse than the attack itself. The forced lockdown of much of the Boston area, police riding armored vehicles through the streets, and door-to-door searches without warrants were all reminiscent of a military coup or martial law, Paul added.

“The Boston bombing provided the opportunity for the government to turn what should have been a police investigation into a military-style occupation of an American city,” according to Paul.

Furthermore, this response did not result in the capture of suspect Dzhokhar Tsarnaev, Paul charged. He was discovered hiding in a boat by a private citizen, who called police.

“And he was identified not by government surveillance cameras, but by private citizens who willingly shared their photographs with the police,” Paul wrote on Lew Rockwell’s site.

Originally Posted by Kobi

“The way in which Americans now related to their government, the way in which they get nationalistic pride is through the assertion of this massive military or police force, and very few other things produce that kind of pride,” Greenwald said. “I think [this] shows a lot about our value systems and what the government is failing to do. And that’s the way in which this culture becomes coarsened.”

A couple of things about this bother me. This article sounds reasonable at first, and then throws in what fodder that will paint Paul a crackpot seems almost to be an effort to get people to write off what's being said. The problem is that on some of these points he is right. We can't be so eager to resolve something that we are willing to throw away the very essence of what makes us free people.

Who's heartstrings weren't tugged by the cop delivering a couple of gallons of milk to family that was "sheltering in place"? Who wasn't happy that these guys were caught really quickly? Nobody....and nobody should have been (unhappy that is). The thing is that I don't think people really realize that not only did they throw the 4th amendment right out the window in the process, but people applauded them doing so. People are saying "Well so what something needed to be done in the greater interest of the public." WTF really?

[Kobi]

Originally Posted by Wolfsong

A couple of things about this bother me. This article sounds reasonable at first, and then throws in what fodder that will paint Paul a crackpot seems almost to be an effort to get people to write off what's being said. The problem is that on some of these points he is right. We can't be so eager to resolve something that we are willing to throw away the very essence of what makes us free people.

Who's heartstrings weren't tugged by the cop delivering a couple of gallons of milk to family that was "sheltering in place"? Who wasn't happy that these guys were caught really quickly? Nobody....and nobody should have been (unhappy that is). The thing is that I don't think people really realize that not only did they throw the 4th amendment right out the window in the process, but people applauded them doing so. People are saying "Well so what something needed to be done in the greater interest of the public." WTF really?

I hear you and agree with you.

I'm glad Paul had the guts to buck the trend and ask the pertinent questions here. They need to be asked. We, as a people, need to articulate and struggle with these questions and more.

We need to struggle with our response to terrorist type acts and how we are willing to put the constitution aside to deal with them. We need to look at why we feel pride, relief, and have the need to clap when law enforcement, en masse, rolls into Boston with incredible speed and impressive military type equipment to combat a problem. (Pun intended)

We need to look at how we are becoming programmed to accept this culture of fear and the type of responses we are told are necessary to deal with real, potential, and imaged threats.

We also need to deal with what has our country done and what does our country continues to do to spur such hatred toward its citizens. Of course that would mean filtering through the decades of rhetoric to find the truth and be willing to face it. It would mean having to take off the rose colored glasses of how we can do no wrong, come to grips with being human beings with selfish agendas that pissed off other peoples who now have the audacity to fight back. WTF is up with that. (Yes Sheldon that was sarcasm.)

We also need to ask how Obama can reassure us this was not an intelligence error when stories are emerging to the contrary.

And, as an aside, we should ask why was it necessary to delve into how much and what kind of public assistance did this family receive at the time when Congress was debating the immigration bill. Coincidence or strategy?

Einstein said: “We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them.”

Seems to me that is exactly what we are trying to do.

[Wolfsong]

Originally Posted by Kobi

I hear you and agree with you.

I'm glad Paul had the guts to buck the trend and ask the pertinent questions here. They need to be asked. We, as a people, need to articulate and struggle with these questions and more.

We need to struggle with our response to terrorist type acts and how we are willing to put the constitution aside to deal with them. We need to look at why we feel pride, relief, and have the need to clap when law enforcement, en masse, rolls into Boston with incredible speed and impressive military type equipment to combat a problem. (Pun intended)

Originally Posted by Kobi

We need to look at how we are becoming programmed to accept this culture of fear and the type of responses we are told are necessary to deal with real, potential, and imaged threats.

Well, if we were to do anything I honestly believe that we need to treat terrorism as an adaptation to how war is conducted. Consider this.... for hundreds of years (from God knows when and even up to the American Civil War) combatants lined up across a field from each other and in very general terms whoever had the most guy to lose ends up the victor. During the Revolutionary War the British had fits because the colonists adapted Native American battle tactics (the Natives thought it a good trade off as they adapted the use of firearms). My 20th Century Military History professor asserted that this adaptation was one of the most significant events in the history of war. I'm not certain that I disagree. So now we are facing tactics that do not fit what we know to be the conduct of war. We are now the ones having fits because it is now not on soil thousands of miles away, but happening here in our own homes. We need to find best practices for fighting this war or we will continue to die. We can start by actually acknowledging that these are acts of war and not isolated incidents of nuts with bombs.

Originally Posted by Kobi

We also need to deal with what has our country done and what does our country continues to do to spur such hatred toward its citizens. Of course that would mean filtering through the decades of rhetoric to find the truth and be willing to face it. It would mean having to take off the rose colored glasses of how we can do no wrong, come to grips with being human beings with selfish agendas that pissed off other peoples who now have the audacity to fight back. WTF is up with that. (Yes Sheldon that was sarcasm.)

Bazinga. Although Kobi I have to stop right where you said "have the audacity to fight back." Fight back?

Listen I'm not so steeped in American patriotism that I fail to recognize that some horrific things have happened and that those things have caused people to suffer needlessly. We've also participated in things that were really none of our business. Take the 1953 coup and U.S. support for the shah of Iran, and then the reversal later in supporting Iraq against Iran for example. That was all about the oil and nothing to do with human rights or preservation of freedom.

Originally Posted by Kobi

We also need to ask how Obama can reassure us this was not an intelligence error when stories are emerging to the contrary.

He can't. Obama is in an interesting position now. Short of finding something to impeach him for, he's basically untouchable. Although I am certain someone somewhere will find a reason that it is his fault. Oh hey what the hell.....a lot of people blamed the Titanic's sinking on Bruce Ismay right? It had nothing to do with the jokers actually driving the ship or the radio operators taking allowing rich passengers to overburden the system so that actual important messages are delayed in being delivered right?

I find it embarrassing and an unfortunate state of affairs that some Republicans would rather vote no on something that would better us as a people (like some of the current gun control measures - background checks) than vote yes for something that would be historically viewed as a presidential win. (Some actually admitted to this as revealed recently and aired on CNN yesterday) I think every one of those SOBs should be fired right now, just take their office key and tell them to kick rocks.

Originally Posted by Kobi

And, as an aside, we should ask why was it necessary to delve into how much and what kind of public assistance did this family receive at the time when Congress was debating the immigration bill. Coincidence or strategy?

No, that was on purpose

[Kobi]

WASHINGTON (AP) — The Homeland Security Department ordered its border agents ‘‘effective immediately’’ to verify that every international student who arrives in the U.S. has a valid student visa, according to an internal memorandum obtained Friday by The Associated Press. The new procedure is the government’s first security change directly related to the Boston bombings.

The order from a senior official at U.S. Customs and Border Protection, David J. Murphy, was circulated Thursday and came one day after the Obama administration acknowledged that a student from Kazakhstan accused of hiding evidence for one of the Boston bombing suspects was allowed to return to the U.S. in January without a valid student visa.

The student visa for Azamat Tazhayakov had been terminated when he arrived in New York on Jan. 20. But the border agent in the airport did not have access to the information about it in the Homeland Security Department’s Student and Exchange Visitor Information System.

A spokesman for the department, Peter Boogaard, said earlier this week that the government was working to fix the problem, which allowed Tazhayakov to be admitted into the country when he returned to the U.S.

Tazhayakov and a second Kazakh student were arrested this week on federal charges of obstruction of justice. They were accused of helping to get rid of a backpack containing fireworks owned by bombing suspect Dzhokhar Tsarnaev. A third student was also arrested and accused of lying to authorities.

http://www.boston.com/news/local/mas...k4M/story.html

[Wolfsong]

Originally Posted by Kobi

WASHINGTON (AP) — The Homeland Security Department ordered its border agents ‘‘effective immediately’’ to verify that every international student who arrives in the U.S. has a valid student visa, according to an internal memorandum obtained Friday by The Associated Press. The new procedure is the government’s first security change directly related to the Boston bombings.

The order from a senior official at U.S. Customs and Border Protection, David J. Murphy, was circulated Thursday and came one day after the Obama administration acknowledged that a student from Kazakhstan accused of hiding evidence for one of the Boston bombing suspects was allowed to return to the U.S. in January without a valid student visa.

The student visa for Azamat Tazhayakov had been terminated when he arrived in New York on Jan. 20. But the border agent in the airport did not have access to the information about it in the Homeland Security Department’s Student and Exchange Visitor Information System.

A spokesman for the department, Peter Boogaard, said earlier this week that the government was working to fix the problem, which allowed Tazhayakov to be admitted into the country when he returned to the U.S.

Tazhayakov and a second Kazakh student were arrested this week on federal charges of obstruction of justice. They were accused of helping to get rid of a backpack containing fireworks owned by bombing suspect Dzhokhar Tsarnaev. A third student was also arrested and accused of lying to authorities.

http://www.boston.com/news/local/mas...k4M/story.html

..... What happened here? The kid just said to the TSA agent......"I have no visa I am student......here is bottle of vodka for politsiya .....have good day....." and strolled on through?

[Kobi]

Originally Posted by Wolfsong

..... What happened here? The kid just said to the TSA agent......"I have no visa I am student......here is bottle of vodka for politsiya .....have good day....." and strolled on through?

The student visa for Azamat Tazhayakov had been terminated when he arrived in New York on Jan. 20. But the border agent in the airport did not have access to the information in the Homeland Security Department's Student and Exchange Visitor Information System, called SEVIS.

Tazhayakov was a friend and classmate of Dzhokhar Tsarnaev's at the University of Massachusetts Dartmouth. Tazhayakov left the U.S. in December and returned Jan. 20. But in early January, his student-visa status was terminated because he was academically dismissed from the university.

A spokesman for the department, Peter Boogaard, said earlier this week that the government was working to fix the problem, which allowed Tazhayakov to be admitted into the country when he returned to the U.S.

Under existing procedures, border agents could verify a student's status in SEVIS only when the person was referred to a second officer for additional inspection or questioning. Tazhayakov was not sent to a second officer when he arrived, because, Boogaard said, there was no information to indicate Tazhayakov was a national security threat. Under the new procedures, all border agents were expected to be able to access SEVIS by next week.

The government for years has recognized as a problem the inability of border agents at primary inspection stations to directly review student-visa information. The Homeland Security Department was working before the bombings to resolve the problem, but the new memo outlined interim procedures until the situation was corrected.

Under the new procedures, border agents will verify a student's visa status before the person arrives in the U.S. using information provided in flight manifests. If that information is unavailable, border agents will check the visa status manually with the agency's national targeting data center.

Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/news/politics/...#ixzz2SKNjABIy
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What is interesting is how Homeland Security knew this was an issue for years and was "working on a solution". Amazing how they managed to find a "solution" so quickly, after the fact, only when the issue found its way to the light of day and was connected to a terrorist incident.

The illusion of safety? An immigration issue? A convenient excuse to link immigration to terrorism? An example of how the rhetoric we are fed doesn't fit the reality?

[Kobi]

The search is on for a cemetery to bury Boston bombing suspect Tamerlan Tsarnaev as protesters picket the funeral home holding his body.

Four cemeteries in three states have refused to accept the battered corpse of Boston Marathon bomber Tamerlan Tsarnaev, said the Massachusetts funeral director tasked with finding his final resting place.

Peter Stefan, funeral director and owner of Graham Putnam & Mahoney Funeral Parlors in Worcester, Mass., tried to find a plot for Tsarnaev in New Jersey, Connecticut and Massachusetts — but nobody wants to bury the Russian-born terrorist on their land, he said.

Protesters had picketed a North Attleborough funeral home to which it was brought initially, after which Mr Stefan's business received it, in the face of a new demonstration.

"Everyone deserves a burial," Mr Stefan told Reuters news agency by telephone.

"It doesn't matter who it is. I can't pick and choose."

Speaking to AP news agency, Mr Stefan said: "My problem here is trying to find a gravesite. A lot of people don't want to do it. They don't want to be involved with this."

Arguing that everyone deserved a dignified burial, he added: "I keep bringing up the point of Lee Harvey Oswald, Timothy McVeigh or Ted Bundy. Somebody had to do those, too."

Dozens of protesters rallied near Mr Stefan's funeral home on Friday

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The funeral director has been accused of "honoring a terrorist"....just for doing his job.

Did people protest outside the hospitals where the brothers were brought for treatment? Were the doctors and nurses, just doing their jobs, honoring a terrorist? Did people protest outside the medical examiners office? Were the people inside, just doing their jobs, honoring a terrorist?

The war on terror has produced some funky paradoxes for Americans. And, it makes me ask, is this who we are?