Are butches really a dying breed?

[GeorgiaMa'am]

Originally Posted by Paradox

I live in Toronto, Canada, some may believe the mecca of gayville. It is rare to see OS butches and even less butch/femme couples.

Hi Paradox,

This made me wonder: is Toronto perhaps not the mecca of gayville, but only the mecca of a certain subgroup of gayville?

I'm familiar with the idea of Toronto as a gay mecca, although my perception was that it was more of a mecca for gay men. I'm not sure where I got that idea, and it could simply be another case of "women are often ignored in the media."

Could it be that the OS b/f mecca is located elsewhere? I think in the Atlanta/Decatur, Georgia area we still have quite a lot. There are certainly lots of queer people who identify in other ways, and maybe it's because I've lived here for 27 of my 48 years, but I see butches and femmes all the time who are people I don't know and don't recall ever having seen before. Of course, I'm the one identifying them as what I would call "butch" and "femme", and I don't ask them how they self-identify. (Do work pants and a tool belt make a butch? . . . gosh, I hope so.)

I'm not claiming the b/f capitol for our own, but I'm wondering what others think? (I'll need to start thinking of retirement communities fairly soon, and I don't think Scottsdale, Arizona would suit me.)

[Leigh]

i hope not cuz I'm still looking for a butch of my own

I think it maybe something that many of us experience.
I too live in a UK town well known for it's gay population and nights out for all. However, I've not met any others that embrace the b/f dynamic.
Sadly we're a very, very small subset of a small subset.

It's my experience that there's more access to other b/f folks in the large conurbations; Manchester, London etc. but even then we're still a tiny minority.

It's why we come places like the Planet to find kindred spirits and people who share our life experiences.

[Paradox]

Originally Posted by GeorgiaMa'am

Hi Paradox,

This made me wonder: is Toronto perhaps not the mecca of gayville, but only the mecca of a certain subgroup of gayville?

I'm familiar with the idea of Toronto as a gay mecca, although my perception was that it was more of a mecca for gay men. I'm not sure where I got that idea, and it could simply be another case of "women are often ignored in the media."

Could it be that the OS b/f mecca is located elsewhere? I think in the Atlanta/Decatur, Georgia area we still have quite a lot. There are certainly lots of queer people who identify in other ways, and maybe it's because I've lived here for 27 of my 48 years, but I see butches and femmes all the time who are people I don't know and don't recall ever having seen before. Of course, I'm the one identifying them as what I would call "butch" and "femme", and I don't ask them how they self-identify. (Do work pants and a tool belt make a butch? . . . gosh, I hope so.)

I'm not claiming the b/f capitol for our own, but I'm wondering what others think? (I'll need to start thinking of retirement communities fairly soon, and I don't think Scottsdale, Arizona would suit me.)

Yes I would agree that the Toronto LGBT 'scene' is more applicable and tailored towards subgroup (gay men). Not a very strong representation of queer women. No surprise really.
From your reply it brings a thought.
Are we not 'seeing' the b/f because we have a preconceived visual cues of what we believe b/f is?
Maybe they are out there but the image is far more different than before. From your example; Work pants and tool belt was (may still for some) be an automatic definer for a butch. Heels, purse and make up for a femme. Like wearing a uniform you knew what team they played for and what position (in theory). Now perhaps with the uniforms removed our prejudgements are kept at bay. (This sentence can be read in such a different way - )

Is this a good thing? In some ways definitely. It's the whole 'don't judge the book by it's cover' sort of thing.
The Flip side? It can make it harder to figure out a person.

So maybe there are more b/f and perhaps more femme that like butches/andro than I have noticed. Have to enhance my scanning skills.

[GeorgiaMa'am]

Originally Posted by Paradox

From your reply it brings a thought.
Are we not 'seeing' the b/f because we have a preconceived visual cues of what we believe b/f is?
Maybe they are out there but the image is far more different than before. From your example; Work pants and tool belt was (may still for some) be an automatic definer for a butch. Heels, purse and make up for a femme. Like wearing a uniform you knew what team they played for and what position (in theory). Now perhaps with the uniforms removed our prejudgements are kept at bay. (This sentence can be read in such a different way - )

Is this a good thing? In some ways definitely. It's the whole 'don't judge the book by it's cover' sort of thing.
The Flip side? It can make it harder to figure out a person.

So maybe there are more b/f and perhaps more femme that like butches/andro than I have noticed. Have to enhance my scanning skills.

Of course there are more types of butches than just the work pants/tool belt type. That was merely a personal wish on my part.

Paradox, now that you mention the "uniform", I rarely go out in "full drag", even though I id as high femme. There's no mistaking me for butch, as I've often been told. That said, your comment reminded me that I often don't bother to get all femmed up unless it's a special occasion or at least Saturday night. My everyday femme look comes off as more "soccer mom". I notice butches and femmes, but only because I've had 25+ years practice recognizing us in my particular community. If other folks aren't seeing me as femme instead of soccer mom, that's my fault, I suppose, for not making more of an effort to show my queerness all the time.