Sonoma County CA Separates Elderly Gay Couple & Sells All Their Possessions

Andrew, Jr. · 04-19-2010, 10:12 AM

Humans acting like donkeys.

Deborah · 04-19-2010, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew, Jr.

Humans acting like donkeys.

What an insult to donkeys...

PearlsNLace · 04-19-2010, 02:24 PM

A friend shared this link with me, and it helped with my frustrated feeling that there was nothing I could do about this situation.

Well, actually, there is a little something here we can do. This is what I have done, and you can do it to:

http://org2.democracyinaction.org/o/...paign_KEY=2441

Just thought Id share.

Corkey · 04-19-2010, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PearlsNLace

A friend shared this link with me, and it helped with my frustrated feeling that there was nothing I could do about this situation.

Well, actually, there is a little something here we can do. This is what I have done, and you can do it to:

http://org2.democracyinaction.org/o/...paign_KEY=2441

Just thought Id share.

signed and shared, thank you.

Apocalipstic · 04-19-2010, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by June

I read the articles this morning and wondered what "The rest of the story" was.

If someone has medical power of attorney and presents it, it must be honored, regardless of the relationship. I mean, you could have anyone have your power of attorneys, even if they're not blood/legal family.

Why was the other partner put into a nursing home? Why were the belongings sold? Was the other partner suffering from dementia or otherwise infirm at the time? Was the paperwork submitted at the time, or discovered later after all this stuff had happened, which doesn't excuse it, but might explain it better.

There are a lot of holes in this story that need to be filled in as far as timelines before I am satisfied that this was an actual deliberate act of homophobia and not just some kind of paperwork snafu with disastrous results.

I don't like being used by either side of the media, and frankly, this feels a bit skewed to me.

It did however remind me of the 1st If Walls Could Talk (someone else go find the video, I'm too lazy) where the female couple had been together for 30 years and when one of them died, the other lost everything even though she had paid the mortgage too. I remember crying hard and long as I watched that.

AND ALSO! Don't use this story as a reason NOT to get protected in your partnership in anyway you can because you think "it doesn't matter". It does.

Tenants in common if you own a house
Legal AND Medical POA's
Wills
Right of Remains
Living Wills - Who gets to pull the plug

There's some other stuff, someone else can fill in. It seems like I have about 7 different documents with my partner outlining what will happen and who's in charge.

I did wonder about that. Will we ever know everything that happened?

We have a bunch of expensive documents too, and have never had any problems here in TN. I wonder if there was family involved?

It makes me pretty nervous.

Jess · 04-19-2010, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by June

I read the articles this morning and wondered what "The rest of the story" was.

If someone has medical power of attorney and presents it, it must be honored, regardless of the relationship. I mean, you could have anyone have your power of attorneys, even if they're not blood/legal family.

Why was the other partner put into a nursing home? Why were the belongings sold? Was the other partner suffering from dementia or otherwise infirm at the time? Was the paperwork submitted at the time, or discovered later after all this stuff had happened, which doesn't excuse it, but might explain it better.

There are a lot of holes in this story that need to be filled in as far as timelines before I am satisfied that this was an actual deliberate act of homophobia and not just some kind of paperwork snafu with disastrous results.

I don't like being used by either side of the media, and frankly, this feels a bit skewed to me.

It did however remind me of the 1st If Walls Could Talk (someone else go find the video, I'm too lazy) where the female couple had been together for 30 years and when one of them died, the other lost everything even though she had paid the mortgage too. I remember crying hard and long as I watched that.

AND ALSO! Don't use this story as a reason NOT to get protected in your partnership in anyway you can because you think "it doesn't matter". It does.

Tenants in common if you own a house
Legal AND Medical POA's
Wills
Right of Remains
Living Wills - Who gets to pull the plug

There's some other stuff, someone else can fill in. It seems like I have about 7 different documents with my partner outlining what will happen and who's in charge.

Agree! All we can do at the moment is to keep protecting ourselves as best as we can.

This may be helpful...

http://gbge.aclu.org/relationships

Apocalipstic · 04-19-2010, 03:19 PM

Does anyone know of a way to find out if the media ommited details?

suebee · 04-19-2010, 04:03 PM

There was a comment by someone who said she had searched Sonoma County records for a year and found no documentation to support the story. Also there is a disclaimer on the page saying that the stories were not pre-screened and that solely the authors were responsible for the content.

I don't know if I hope the story is true so a falsehood can't be used against us or that it's not true and nobody had to suffer the indignities that were outlined.

iamkeri1 · 04-19-2010, 07:50 PM

"Tenants in common" is not a good choice to protect a couples rights. A home, car or other property owned as tenants in common gives each partner rights to only half of said property. Children or even distant relatives of the deceased or incapacitated partner could force the property into probate. The remainng partner would most likely be forced to sell the property and give half to the suing family member. Any jointly owned property should be titled as "Joint tenants", with the added phrase "with full rights to survivor", which adds further clarity to the intention of the owners.

"Tenants in common" should only be used if either partner has children or other relatives that they wish to have to leave their assets to rather than their partner.

This article makes me so sad, But I add my plea that you not use it as an excuse to avoid obtaining necessary documents to protect your rights. No system is perfect. This is an awful situation, but it could have happened just as easily to a cohabiting elderly straight couple. In Florida, during the last election, when the charming voters of my state decided to eliminate the legal status of "domestic partner", the biggest group lobbying to keep it from being passed was an elder rights group which used only straight couples as spokespeople. The religious right was so anxious to eliminate any possibility that gay folks could establish a legal relationship of any kind, that they through cohabiting straight people under the truck as well.
Sad Smooches,
Keri

Quote:

Originally Posted by June

I read the articles this morning and wondered what "The rest of the story" was.

If someone has medical power of attorney and presents it, it must be honored, regardless of the relationship. I mean, you could have anyone have your power of attorneys, even if they're not blood/legal family.

Why was the other partner put into a nursing home? Why were the belongings sold? Was the other partner suffering from dementia or otherwise infirm at the time? Was the paperwork submitted at the time, or discovered later after all this stuff had happened, which doesn't excuse it, but might explain it better.

There are a lot of holes in this story that need to be filled in as far as timelines before I am satisfied that this was an actual deliberate act of homophobia and not just some kind of paperwork snafu with disastrous results.

I don't like being used by either side of the media, and frankly, this feels a bit skewed to me.

It did however remind me of the 1st If Walls Could Talk (someone else go find the video, I'm too lazy) where the female couple had been together for 30 years and when one of them died, the other lost everything even though she had paid the mortgage too. I remember crying hard and long as I watched that.

AND ALSO! Don't use this story as a reason NOT to get protected in your partnership in anyway you can because you think "it doesn't matter". It does.

Tenants in common if you own a house
Legal AND Medical POA's
Wills
Right of Remains
Living Wills - Who gets to pull the plug

There's some other stuff, someone else can fill in. It seems like I have about 7 different documents with my partner outlining what will happen and who's in charge.

patrick_sdmn · 04-20-2010, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by June

I read the articles this morning and wondered what "The rest of the story" was.

Check the NCLR site for the legal complaint that was filed:

http://www.nclrights.org/site/DocSer...pdf?docID=7461

cinderella · 04-19-2010, 07:58 PM

Signed and shared.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PearlsNLace

A friend shared this link with me, and it helped with my frustrated feeling that there was nothing I could do about this situation.

Well, actually, there is a little something here we can do. This is what I have done, and you can do it to:

http://org2.democracyinaction.org/o/...paign_KEY=2441

Just thought Id share.

SuperFemme · 04-19-2010, 08:09 PM

http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/di...0&file=260-267

260. Unless the provision or context otherwise requires, the
definitions in this chapter govern the construction of this part.

262. "Beneficiary" means the person entitled, but for the person's
disclaimer, to take an interest.

263. (a) "Creator of the interest" means a person who establishes,
declares, creates, or otherwise brings into existence an interest.
(b) "Creator of the interest" includes, but is not limited to, the
following:
(1) With respect to an interest created by intestate succession,
the person dying intestate.
(2) With respect to an interest created under a will, the
testator.
(3) With respect to an interest created under a trust, the
settlor.
(4) With respect to an interest created by succession to a
disclaimed interest, the disclaimant of the disclaimed interest.
(5) With respect to an interest created by virtue of an election
to take against a will, the testator.
(6) With respect to an interest created by creation of a power of
appointment, the donor.
(7) With respect to an interest created by exercise or nonexercise
of a power of appointment, the donee.
(8) With respect to an interest created by an inter vivos gift,
the donor.
(9) With respect to an interest created by surviving the death of
a depositor of a Totten trust account or P.O.D. account, the deceased
depositor.
(10) With respect to an interest created under an insurance or
annuity contract, the owner, the insured, or the annuitant.
(11) With respect to an interest created by surviving the death of
another joint tenant, the deceased joint tenant.
(12) With respect to an interest created under an employee benefit
plan, the employee or other owner of an interest in the plan.
(13) With respect to an interest created under an individual
retirement account, annuity, or bond, the owner.

264. "Disclaimant" means a beneficiary who executes a disclaimer on
his or her own behalf or a person who executes a disclaimer on
behalf of a beneficiary.

265. "Disclaimer" means any writing which declines, refuses,
renounces, or disclaims any interest that would otherwise be taken by
a beneficiary.

266. "Employee benefit plan" includes, but is not limited to, any
pension, retirement, death benefit, stock bonus, or profit-sharing
plan, system, or trust.

267. (a) "Interest" includes the whole of any property, real or
personal, legal or equitable, or any fractional part, share, or
particular portion or specific assets thereof, or any estate in any
such property, or any power to appoint, consume, apply, or expend
property, or any other right, power, privilege, or immunity relating
to property.
(b) "Interest" includes, but is not limited to, an interest
created in any of the following manners:
(1) By intestate succession.
(2) Under a will.
(3) Under a trust.
(4) By succession to a disclaimed interest.
(5) By virtue of an election to take against a will.
(6) By creation of a power of appointment.
(7) By exercise or nonexercise of a power of appointment.
(8) By an inter vivos gift, whether outright or in trust.
(9) By surviving the death of a depositor of a Totten trust
account or P.O.D. account.
(10) Under an insurance or annuity contract.
(11) By surviving the death of another joint tenant.
(12) Under an employee benefit plan.
(13) Under an individual retirement account, annuity, or bond.
(14) Any other interest created by any testamentary or inter vivos
instrument or by operation of law.

Miss Scarlett · 04-19-2010, 08:17 PM

Kobi, I have to disagree with you. I've been in law for nearly as long as you have been in medicine. People most certainly can be involuntarily committed into medical facilities including nursing homes. In NC a court action is filed either for Adult Protective Services or Incompetency. We do numerous cases like this each month - my boss represents our county's DSS in APS, CPS and CSE cases. These cases can be filed and adjudicated in a matter of weeks. Anyone can file one of these cases, not just DSS.

Here is the link to the Complaint filed by Clay Greene's attorneys - please take the time to read this. I think it will give everyone a better understanding of what happened and fill in the gaps in the news story I posted in my OP.

http://www.nclrights.org/site/DocSer...pdf?docID=7461

Just because you have all the right documents doesn't mean some narrowminded and/or ignorant person/institution will honor them.

Remember the lesbian couple from Washington who were in Florida for the Rosie Cruise?

http://www.lambdalegal.org/in-court/...-memorial.html

Here is the link to the Amended Complaint filed in that matter:

http://data.lambdalegal.org/in-court...nt-amended.pdf

Sadly the Federal Court granted the Defendant's Motion and dismissed the action.

We must continue to fight for our equality!

christie · 04-19-2010, 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miss Scarlett

Kobi, I have to disagree with you. I've been in law for nearly as long as you have been in medicine. People most certainly can be involuntarily committed into medical facilities including nursing homes. In NC a court action is filed either for Adult Protective Services or Incompetency. We do numerous cases like this each month - my boss represents our county's DSS in APS, CPS and CSE cases. These cases can be filed and adjudicated in a matter of weeks. Anyone can file one of these cases, not just DSS.

Here is the link to the Complaint filed by Clay Greene's attorneys - please take the time to read this. I think it will give everyone a better understanding of what happened and fill in the gaps in the news story I posted in my OP.

http://www.nclrights.org/site/DocSer...pdf?docID=7461

Just because you have all the right documents doesn't mean some narrowminded and/or ignorant person/institution will honor them.

Remember the lesbian couple from Washington who were in Florida for the Rosie Cruise?

http://www.lambdalegal.org/in-court/...-memorial.html

Here is the link to the Amended Complaint filed in that matter:

http://data.lambdalegal.org/in-court...nt-amended.pdf

Sadly the Federal Court granted the Defendant's Motion and dismissed the action.

We must continue to fight for our equality!

Wow. If you go to page 66 of the first link, the letter to the Sonoma County Board of Supervisors detailing this ordeal is just heartbreaking. I do think that this is a valid story.

I think that part of our wanting to believe that it isnt a full disclosure of the facts is more about us wanting to think that it couldnt happen to us.

Unfortunately, IMO, it can.

Apocalipstic · 04-20-2010, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by christie0918

Wow. If you go to page 66 of the first link, the letter to the Sonoma County Board of Supervisors detailing this ordeal is just heartbreaking. I do think that this is a valid story.

I think that part of our wanting to believe that it isnt a full disclosure of the facts is more about us wanting to think that it couldnt happen to us.

Unfortunately, IMO, it can.

Yeah, I guess I have this very misguided idea of Californians being wayyy more liberal and cool about things than anyone in TN. But in Nashville I have never had a problem. I give my doctors and hospitals the forms, but they have always indicated Cynthia woudl be able to see me regardless?

Now in a rural TN area? Who knows....though, there seem to be a lot of LBGTQ people in the medical profession.

Either way, its terribly sad.

04-19-2010, 02:24 PM	#3
PearlsNLace Member How Do You Identify?: queer Preferred Pronoun?: They/Them & her/she Relationship Status: Lucky, very lucky Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Portlandia, Oregon Posts: 427 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 875 Thanked 1,284 Times in 315 Posts Rep Power: 6505518	Something we can all do A friend shared this link with me, and it helped with my frustrated feeling that there was nothing I could do about this situation. Well, actually, there is a little something here we can do. This is what I have done, and you can do it to: http://org2.democracyinaction.org/o/...paign_KEY=2441 Just thought Id share.

04-19-2010, 03:19 PM	#7
Apocalipstic Pink Confection How Do You Identify?: Femme Preferred Pronoun?: She, Her, Ma'am Relationship Status: Dating Myself Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Nashville Posts: 4,266 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 17,195 Thanked 11,362 Times in 2,838 Posts Rep Power: 21474857	Does anyone know of a way to find out if the media ommited details? __________________

04-19-2010, 04:03 PM	#8
suebee Member How Do You Identify?: TOWANDA! Preferred Pronoun?: Queen Bee Relationship Status: Good 'n married. Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Eastern Canada. But if I make a wrong turn at the lights I get stopped by a border guard. Posts: 1,499 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 2,355 Thanked 2,756 Times in 820 Posts Rep Power: 16450093	There was a comment by someone who said she had searched Sonoma County records for a year and found no documentation to support the story. Also there is a disclaimer on the page saying that the stories were not pre-screened and that solely the authors were responsible for the content. I don't know if I hope the story is true so a falsehood can't be used against us or that it's not true and nobody had to suffer the indignities that were outlined. __________________ "Compassion, in which all ethics must take root, can only attain its full breadth and depth if it embraces all living creatures and does not limit itself to mankind." -Albert Schweitzer

04-19-2010, 10:12 AM	#1
Andrew, Jr. Timed Out How Do You Identify?: Me Preferred Pronoun?: He Relationship Status: Unavailable Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Over the Rainbow in a House Posts: 5,072 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 16,004 Thanked 5,249 Times in 2,216 Posts Rep Power: 0	Humans acting like donkeys.

04-19-2010, 08:09 PM	#12
SuperFemme Timed Out How Do You Identify?: Permanently Banned 10/24/2010 Preferred Pronoun?: She. Relationship Status: Married (one of 18,000) Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Atascadero, CA Posts: 4,933 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 2,309 Thanked 7,108 Times in 2,327 Posts Rep Power: 0	http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/di...0&file=260-267 260. Unless the provision or context otherwise requires, the definitions in this chapter govern the construction of this part. 262. "Beneficiary" means the person entitled, but for the person's disclaimer, to take an interest. 263. (a) "Creator of the interest" means a person who establishes, declares, creates, or otherwise brings into existence an interest. (b) "Creator of the interest" includes, but is not limited to, the following: (1) With respect to an interest created by intestate succession, the person dying intestate. (2) With respect to an interest created under a will, the testator. (3) With respect to an interest created under a trust, the settlor. (4) With respect to an interest created by succession to a disclaimed interest, the disclaimant of the disclaimed interest. (5) With respect to an interest created by virtue of an election to take against a will, the testator. (6) With respect to an interest created by creation of a power of appointment, the donor. (7) With respect to an interest created by exercise or nonexercise of a power of appointment, the donee. (8) With respect to an interest created by an inter vivos gift, the donor. (9) With respect to an interest created by surviving the death of a depositor of a Totten trust account or P.O.D. account, the deceased depositor. (10) With respect to an interest created under an insurance or annuity contract, the owner, the insured, or the annuitant. (11) With respect to an interest created by surviving the death of another joint tenant, the deceased joint tenant. (12) With respect to an interest created under an employee benefit plan, the employee or other owner of an interest in the plan. (13) With respect to an interest created under an individual retirement account, annuity, or bond, the owner. 264. "Disclaimant" means a beneficiary who executes a disclaimer on his or her own behalf or a person who executes a disclaimer on behalf of a beneficiary. 265. "Disclaimer" means any writing which declines, refuses, renounces, or disclaims any interest that would otherwise be taken by a beneficiary. 266. "Employee benefit plan" includes, but is not limited to, any pension, retirement, death benefit, stock bonus, or profit-sharing plan, system, or trust. 267. (a) "Interest" includes the whole of any property, real or personal, legal or equitable, or any fractional part, share, or particular portion or specific assets thereof, or any estate in any such property, or any power to appoint, consume, apply, or expend property, or any other right, power, privilege, or immunity relating to property. (b) "Interest" includes, but is not limited to, an interest created in any of the following manners: (1) By intestate succession. (2) Under a will. (3) Under a trust. (4) By succession to a disclaimed interest. (5) By virtue of an election to take against a will. (6) By creation of a power of appointment. (7) By exercise or nonexercise of a power of appointment. (8) By an inter vivos gift, whether outright or in trust. (9) By surviving the death of a depositor of a Totten trust account or P.O.D. account. (10) Under an insurance or annuity contract. (11) By surviving the death of another joint tenant. (12) Under an employee benefit plan. (13) Under an individual retirement account, annuity, or bond. (14) Any other interest created by any testamentary or inter vivos instrument or by operation of law.

04-19-2010, 08:17 PM	#13
Miss Scarlett Infamous Member How Do You Identify?: Femme Relationship Status: . Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: . Posts: 5,530 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 4,478 Thanked 12,947 Times in 3,419 Posts Rep Power: 21474857	Kobi, I have to disagree with you. I've been in law for nearly as long as you have been in medicine. People most certainly can be involuntarily committed into medical facilities including nursing homes. In NC a court action is filed either for Adult Protective Services or Incompetency. We do numerous cases like this each month - my boss represents our county's DSS in APS, CPS and CSE cases. These cases can be filed and adjudicated in a matter of weeks. Anyone can file one of these cases, not just DSS. Here is the link to the Complaint filed by Clay Greene's attorneys - please take the time to read this. I think it will give everyone a better understanding of what happened and fill in the gaps in the news story I posted in my OP. http://www.nclrights.org/site/DocSer...pdf?docID=7461 Just because you have all the right documents doesn't mean some narrowminded and/or ignorant person/institution will honor them. Remember the lesbian couple from Washington who were in Florida for the Rosie Cruise? http://www.lambdalegal.org/in-court/...-memorial.html Here is the link to the Amended Complaint filed in that matter: http://data.lambdalegal.org/in-court...nt-amended.pdf Sadly the Federal Court granted the Defendant's Motion and dismissed the action. We must continue to fight for our equality!