Macklemore's "Same Love" : Ally or Exploitation?

[C0LLETTE]

I'm no expert but isn't this the way of most "revolutions? They're seldom, if ever, fronted by the oppressed who are too busy being oppressed to have the luxury or advantage to do much flag bearing.

I'll confess, I live in a cave and poke my head out every now and then to see what's going on. Three days ago I'd never heard of "Same Love", Macklemore, Mary Lambert. I barely know what hip hop is either.

Yes yes it was a glitzy, schmaltzy, maybe exploitative performance. But I , for one, enjoyed it; am happy that Broke Back Mountain might now be retired as Hollywood's only major paean to gayness (tyg). People got married, no one died tragically and, I read that Mary Lambert has signed with Capitol Records and is climbing the Billboard charts. Not every gift horse is Trojan.

[Parker]

I have no issues with Same Love bc (a) Mary helped to write it and (b) it was written during the time WA was trying to legalize marriage equality - it was written in support of that (that's what he is talking about with the lyrics, "Damn right I support it" and "And a certificate on paper isn't gonna solve it all
But it's a damn good place to start").

So while it has gotten huge and he is getting rich off of it (and other songs), it started out in a good place and I cant fault him (or them) for that - plus, like someone else said, it brought Mary out into the spotlight, where she should be. Is he perfect? Good lord, no. But I'll take an ally who is making a few bucks off of a song that supports marriage equality over an ally who still uses, "that's gay" (ahem, Dixie Chicks' Natalie Maines) any damn day of the week.

Personally, I was touched by what I saw - yes, Madonna being there was a little strange and I would have preferred someone who is OUT officiating to Queen Latifah (no offense, I love the Queen), but just seeing all of those gay couples getting married right there on live TV, in front of millions of people - that was huge. And since my crusty old heart sometimes melts a bit at things like that, it was sweet to see them all so happy and to see everyone celebrating with them.

I will say that it made me a little uncomfortable to watch him rap the lyrics about Hip Hop's homophobia - he walked out to the edge of the stage like he was calling out specific people and I couldnt help but think about how much hate comes our way from the Country music side of things (I found Reba to be a particular disappointment). I agree with whoever said that he is speaking to his genre - but a LOT of people have issues with him even being IN that genre, let alone being a white dude calling people out in Hip Hop.

But that's probably another thread...

[Medusa]

Which leads me to think I want to start another thread about who "owns" music genres. Like, are white people ever allowed to rap? Are folks of color ever allowed to sing country music? How about an First Nations person singing opera?

[C0LLETTE]

Yo Yo Ma plays a lot of Bach... very well, as a matter of fact.

[Gráinne]

Originally Posted by Medusa

Which leads me to think I want to start another thread about who "owns" music genres. Like, are white people ever allowed to rap? Are folks of color ever allowed to sing country music? How about an First Nations person singing opera?

"Are white people allowed to rap"-does Eminem count?
"Are POC allowed to sing country music"-Darius Rucker (of Hootie and the Blowfish), Cleve Francis, and even Ray Charles, who was of course much more famous for his blues and soul.
"First Nations person singing opera"-I don't know of a singer, but Tomson Highway is Cree (and gay), and wrote one.

Maybe I'm just being a pain in the rear .

As to Macklemore and the ceremony, the whole thing just screamed "publicity stunt". I don't equate this with the sit-ins during the Civil Rights Movement or the Freedom Riders. That could and often was dangerous. This just felt like a rich white (and straight) man jumping on the latest fad, on television at that.

I've been wondering what would have happened if Eminem performed that song, and queer POC were amongst the couples. Personally, I'm more of an Eminem fan, at least some of his music. Macklemore seems like a decent person, but he comes off a dandy at best, and the other night, a tool at worst.

I know he meant well and that the couples were joyous. I just think issues in our community go beyond marriage, and that we are not fads.

[Ginger]

I like the song and I'm glad it's out there.

[*Anya*]

“Any time you are speaking about or for a community that is inherently not yours, a group that you are not a part of, you have to be careful,” Macklemore says. “So ‘Same Love’ had to be a very personal song for that reason. I think that’s how it came out.

Though he credits the couple for being his model of a committed and loving relationship, the rapper admits he was initially very reluctant to play the track for his uncle. “These were some of the hardest words to write on a piece of paper, knowing that people were going to hear this,” Macklemore says, adding that playing the song for his uncle and his partner, let alone to thousands of fans, meant exposing himself.

However, after learning that his father had already shared the song with the couple, Macklemore was so moved that he decided to change the artwork for the single. The original concept, a collage of two same-sex couples and rainbow clip art, wasn’t gelling with him—“It didn’t represent what the song is,” he says.

Instead, the final artwork for “Same Love” shows his two uncles posing in a stark, classic family portrait: One sits resolutely in a chair, while the other stands behind him, his hand on his lover’s shoulder. The photo is simple but elegant and powerful."

I included more of the article for context.

Macklemore has a gay uncle, in a committed relationship. I believe he is in an ally.

*My Opinion*

I only watched part of the Grammy's and did not care for the publicity stunt of wedding straight and gay couples but hell: same love, right? Not in my wildest dreams did I think I would see gay couples getting married on TV in my lifetime.

I came out New Years, 1978. My first girlfriend and I, dancing in a gay nightclub all night, as our statement to ourselves and to those present, that we were lesbians.

I Will Survive or some other straight song the gay boys had co-opted as their anthem, blasting and we all sang our hearts out. I felt such joy.

Your anthem is whatever song speaks to you.

The first time I heard Same Love on the radio, I cried. I sat in awe that a song about the love I have for another woman was actually being played on the radio.

I also thought about a kid struggling with his sexuality, no matter his culture or race, who might be immersed in hip-hop, hearing a song that tells him that same-sex love is OK. To me, that is powerful.

When I came out, I never heard Holly Near being played on top 40 radio. We all had to listen to "our songs" on cassette tapes or vinyl records in our homes.

*I* do not care who sings a song or raps to a song. As long as their doing so will encourage straight people to have their eyes or heart opened, even a kernel, to my right to love, live, keep a job or marry the woman that I love.

In my wildest dreams, some 36 years ago when I first came out, did I ever expect to see the changes that have occurred! We were still sneaking into gay clubs 36 years ago!

I will take change, in micro steps, if need be, in any way that it comes. I don't care how self-serving it is for the artist, politician or anyone that it may be; if it ultimately helps all of us.

That is how I feel.

[C0LLETTE]

My Mother was born before the advent of jet planes. She lived to see flights to the moon. I came out, in the late 50's- early 60's in a society where the only places for gays to meet were bars run by gangsters who ripped you off on the way in; and you were often met by cops who beat you up and/or arrested you on the way out.Maybe it is generational but, like Anya, I never thought I'd live to see gays being married on national television ( though it did smack a bit of Rev. Moon ).

I'll leave the deconstruction of events to the ideologues and those with the necessary vocabulary for these things. However I do think that no social movement is ever pure and it is counterproductive to insist on that. Imperfect it may have been but the performance was a broadly shared "happy" occasion and I'm glad I got to see it.

Conflicted as always, I can't help but add a note of caution. Like many, I tend to become complacent when I see progress being made. Then I remember that the Jews of Germany thought they were sewn into the fabric of German society with full rights of citizenship; the swiftness and severity of their disabuse offers evidence enough that they never really were. That said, I don't want to live with that pessimism alone; with insecurities that deny me the pleasure of some victories and advancements, flawed or not. And I do have the benefit of hindsight and of "having been there" to offer testimony that progress is most definitely being made.

[ProfPacker]

You clarified the historical context of the song, thank you. We can also like and dislike something at the same time. I do jot want to take away from the happiness the couples felt after getting married. I wonder how far Hollywood went in their celebratory stance. Did anyone hear if the were given the biggest f*in party of the night for relatives, families, etc. That to me would be major recognition.

[Medusa]

Originally Posted by femmepacker

You clarified the historical context of the song, thank you. We can also like and dislike something at the same time. I do jot want to take away from the happiness the couples felt after getting married. I wonder how far Hollywood went in their celebratory stance. Did anyone hear if the were given the biggest f*in party of the night for relatives, families, etc. That to me would be major recognition.

I did just read a thing that all 33 of the couples were given tickets to the biggest after party. One of the attending couples (consequently, a Butch/Femme -appearing couple) stated that throngs of celebs were coming up and congratulating them and asking to take photos and that they partied all night!

[The_Lady_Snow]

I believe Queen Latifah came out in May of 2012 at Long Beach Pride. I remember it cause it was a big deal when it happened, I was like you didn't know?

"At the 2012 Long Beach Pride event in California last weekend, the 42-year-old award-winning singer, rapper and actress officially came out as gay.

“Y’all my peeps (people),” she said, referring to the LGBT community. “I love you!”

The Queen performed to a crowd of about 1,000 people for more than an hour, telling them to “keep your support system tight” and also warning about keeping safe from STDs.

“Thank you to all my favorite peep guests who came out to support me. I appreciate it. I love you so much. Hope you had a beautiful time,” she said. “Y’all be safe whatever y’all get into tonight. Boys –- strap it up. Ladies –- strap it up.”

-------------------------------------------



ETA

I would also like to add that she denied it later on, so until she decides to let us in we can just speculate, I am still thinking she is, though it may be cause she's HOT!

[Parker]

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

I believe Queen Latifah came out in May of 2012 at Long Beach Pride. I remember it cause it was a big deal when it happened, I was like you didn't know?

"At the 2012 Long Beach Pride event in California last weekend, the 42-year-old award-winning singer, rapper and actress officially came out as gay.

“Y’all my peeps (people),” she said, referring to the LGBT community. “I love you!”

The Queen performed to a crowd of about 1,000 people for more than an hour, telling them to “keep your support system tight” and also warning about keeping safe from STDs.

“Thank you to all my favorite peep guests who came out to support me. I appreciate it. I love you so much. Hope you had a beautiful time,” she said. “Y’all be safe whatever y’all get into tonight. Boys –- strap it up. Ladies –- strap it up.”

-------------------------------------------



ETA

I would also like to add that she denied it later on, so until she decides to let us in we can just speculate, I am still thinking she is, though it may be cause she's HOT!

I thought she came out as well, but several (gay) people on my FB said she never *actually* came out, she just danced around it - and "Y'all my peeps!" could mean she is gay or it could mean she just loves "the gays" - celebs like, oh hell, what's her name ... Kathy Griffin! - she says shit like that all the time.

I dont know - we all know she's gay, so maybe she doesnt have to say the actual words...



eta: as to your eta - I think she's hot as well - especially when she is belting out some jazz.

[ProfPacker]

Thank you, Martina. This point about rewriting history is an important one. I teach on Staten Island and one of the assignments I give my social work students is to create the history of Staten Island that is not in the history books. The are always amazed the Native people occupied Staten Island before the Dutch and proud, mind you, that the first brewery in the colonies was Staten Island. Not sure which fact these kids were more enamored with, lol

[Medusa]

Originally Posted by femmepacker

Thank you, Martina. This point about rewriting history is an important one. I teach on Staten Island and one of the assignments I give my social work students is to create the history of Staten Island that is not in the history books. The are always amazed the Native people occupied Staten Island before the Dutch and proud, mind you, that the first brewery in the colonies was Staten Island. Not sure which fact these kids were more enamored with, lol

Not to mention that we are still raising kids in this country to believe that the generous Pilgrims sat down with the uncivilized "natives" and had a big, happy Thanksgiving dinner with a biggo punkin' pieeeeee.

No mention of the deaths, rapes, and homes destroyed.

And my eyes roll so hard in the back of my head when I read the fictitious accounts of Custer's Last Stand that I think I can see my brain stem.

[fatallyblonde]

I'm not gonna spend a lot of time speechifying... just that I am friggin sick to death of straight white men being celebrated... wrong on so many levels not just cos he's a straight dude but he appropriates rap music and has ripped off black rap artists... he gets celebrated disproportionately in his favour for saying the same things actual gay people and black people have said a bazillion times already... and as a man is definitely celebrated above women. Yet somehow he's revolutionary for saying it? Gimme a break. The problem is severely institutionalised but he's not helping by taking the glory. BLERG.

[fatallyblonde]

and yes I agree with that excellent article posted. beyonce rules, macklemore drools.

so fascinating a white straight bro can be salivated over for one condescending 'ho ho I guess you gays are okay' whilst black queer rape artists go completely ignored and have been so for yeaaaaaaars...
wait, no, not fascinating... that other thing... offensive.

[ProfPacker]

This morning while showering, I was thinking about this discussion and, again, wondering about my flat response. I remembered another comment that my daughter said that gave me some insight into her experience as a daughter of a lesbian headed household. She said
"So, what happens when these couples go back to places where their marriage sis not legal". So, Justice Kennedy you did correctly speak to the effects of children regarding dicriminatory practices. What was her experience when as a7 year old at the time on NY she came home and said "you live like you care married but so and socsaid girls can't marry each other" for a while (now this is hindsight) I realize there was a drop in inviting friends over. Or recently, because we are in NJ and separated prior to marriage being legal here, we separated. She never talks about it as a divorce because it was not legal, although to me I perceive it as a divorce, etc. So her narrative concerning the show was colored by life experiences which were colored by living I. A family that was discriminated against. When She was 13 and we put in the paperworkcfor a sibling from China, what was it like for her to recognize that her country of origin would not recognize our family and by collusion, our country wouldn't and I had to "disappear" for the homestudy, etc.
Wow, one event on TV gave me a greater window into her experiences than would have scone from "a big talk"
Btw, in a strange way, ABC family is opening up the dialogue for families much more than one event. I amazed at how (and more than Modern Family, which is satirical) the dialogue with my 15 year old is opening up because her experience is being mirrored in this show. She talks of how and how not she identifies. It was also gratmfor me to see that when one of the characters was presented she said "he's trans" and talked about constructs of identity so easily and with empathy regarding a process. Why aren't the fb boards lighting up about this? Because it is a Disney show and I get that adults only watch Disney under duress...I do and sometimes I am surprised as to what is on.

[silkepus]

I agree 100% with fattalyblonde, I absolutely cant stand this song. I've been avoiding it for so long but there just is no escape is there.

This is our anthem? Really? Did we have a vote because I was not in on this decision.

This is just the new trendy social cause that’s all it is. It’s for straight people to pat themselves on the back because now they can’t be homophobic because they listen to same love- go them yay! (I do actually know someone who insists they are not homophobic because they liked this song while at the same time says things like "I don’t mind gay people, as long as they don’t do it in public").

I think what irks me most about this is no one else could have made a song like that and actually gotten noticed. It’s because he is a straight white male that makes it all ok. Gay rights and hip hop is fine and all- just don’t make it too gay or too black. I feel like it just shows how far we have to go. When a queer person can be openly gay and sing about homophobia and still get this kind of attention, I'll cheer a bit more than I am now.

And that doesn’t mean I have something against him in particular, he didn’t choose for his song to hit of. It’s the culture we live in that jumps on any chance to celebrate a SWM for doing things people who have actually suffered from said oppression has been doing for years.

For me this just adds on the list of what I don’t like about popular mainstream culture.

[Julie]

Personally - ME speaking.
I am happy the song is out there. I wish it was a queer person who wrote and performed it. I wish it was a queer person who received the publicity. But it was not.

I believe the song hit home to a lot of people. Opening the eyes of many. It played on radio stations around the world. Why would this be bad?

I am not going to get into whether he should have won or not. If he is straight or gay. For me, and this is ME. I am glad and grateful the song is out there. We need straight allies and regardless if he made money on our backs or not. He had the voice to spread a message. I would have preferred Mary Lambert "She keeps me warm."

As far as the people who were married. I was a little annoyed at seeing the straight people being wed. The song played was "Same Love." That bothered me more than anything.

[~baby~doll~]

Though i find it hard to take seriously anyone who is not of a specific community creating a so called anthem it needs to be done. Their voice will rise above those who belong to the underprivileged community.
As LGBT our voice is generally weak. In all media we fall short. In publishing few book stores carry many of the titles we would find of interest. i'm sure many of us here don't know all the LGBT authors we could be supporting and reading. We read James Patterson instead of trying Katherine V Forrest because we see the TV ads for Patterson books.
The song I Kissed a Girl by Katy Perry (2008) is an example of the weakness of our voice.
In 1995 Jill Sobule Released I Kissed a Girl it's popularity was minimal by comparison to the Katy Perry release.
Different songs one made a huge splash one didn't. Straight vs Gay.
We all know our society is based on straight privilege. It is what it is.

We need the straight community to support our cause. We do not have the numbers, which would force change. This is a sad truth. Macklemore is a voice crying out and adds to the number's who will support our cause. This is a good thing for us.

As an anthem i can find so many better tunes.

Just off the top of my head i can think of two by an out lesbian Catie Curtis.





It makes me sad her songs do not reach deeply into the straight community who's support we need to change the world.