In Celebration of Butch Femininity

01-31-2014, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tapu

tapu's dictionary:

Got a pussy? Like pussy exclusively? Yer a lesbian.

Not true akshually!

BullDog · 01-31-2014, 12:59 PM

Well okay Tapu, your definition doesn't work for me. It feels quite narrow and I don't like people being reduced to body parts- or one body part.

tapu · 01-31-2014, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BullDog

Well okay Tapu, your definition doesn't work for me. It feels quite narrow and I don't like people being reduced to body parts- or one body part.

Yes, I understand your objections. How would you phrase a bare-bones, dictionary definition of a lesbian? (That was all I was trying to get at. There are differences and nuances I recognize, outside life in a dictionary.)

Thank you for your direct, and respectful, response, btw. That was great.

Random · 02-03-2014, 04:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tapu

Yes, I understand your objections. How would you phrase a bare-bones, dictionary definition of a lesbian? (That was all I was trying to get at. There are differences and nuances I recognize, outside life in a dictionary.)

Thank you for your direct, and respectful, response, btw. That was great.

Ummm.. A lesbian is someone who ID's as a lesbian?

puddin' · 02-15-2014, 03:09 PM

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects...he-other-girls

support if you can, and please share it along... ta

Paradox · 01-31-2014, 05:25 PM

The concept of butch femininity is interesting and even more importantly I am quite happy of how the posts evolved into something that I believe has been simmering for long time within the LGBT . The good, bad and ugly of it all in one thread. One thing I can not stand is the extreme extent of political correctness practically causing paralysis in our inability to discuss things openly and without perceiving harmful intent.

Some great posts from Miss Tick, Kobi, HB for example. But there are too many points to address, but fundamentally the unrest from within the ‘community’ and use the term loosely is due combination of ambiguous definitions/IDs and the battle to be all inclusive. This is a situation that is not reserved for online community only I personally witnessed and experienced in real world as well.

I never liked ID - Butch in my past for primarily the same reasons Miss Tick outlined (1st post). It was and some ways remains to mean ‘male’ vs masculine. The patriarchal dominance was not something I wanted to automatically embrace at the risk of leaving my equal matriarchal strengths behind. For me, my femininity is the ability to embrace and utilize my masculinity however I please, while remembering and loving - I am female. We all posses both energies within us. I enjoy the masculine elements that surface, but I still buy women’s clothes along with some male clothing, because I want to and I can.

Our biggest umbrella is that we are human. There are many (perhaps too many) subcategories and with each addition the risk increases marginalization. We debate/discuss the IDs that exist and continue create alphabet soup of new IDs because we don’t like how one sounds or means (I am guilty of this myself). We have become our worst enemies

. I’ll be a bit of devil’s advocate.

Since there is no clean, concise way to define butch/femme (lines have become so blurred-maybe meaningless) why do we continue to use them?
What exactly is a Butch or Femme? A definition that can be universally applied with little personal preferences?
If lesbian is woman who is sexually attracted to other women - Is a FTM a lesbian? Is a Trans a lesbian?
Can being inclusive really exist without some layer of discrimination? I do not mean in a extreme hate context? But if we claim inclusive what does that mean?
If we have ‘spaces’ is that not a layer of discrimination? Don’t get me wrong I don’t believe you can claim inclusivity without excluding somewhere/someone unintentionally or intentionally. But I do believe in ‘spaces’ and they should be supported.
EX:
Main Group of Meteorologist.
Sub-Group A: Common strait: Building miniature structures out of match sticks.
Sub-Group B: Common Strait: Dress in Gothic.
Sub-Group C: Common Strait: Fascination with tall people.
Yes odd example - I am just picking random straits that pop into my mind

.

If I relate to only one group. I can be curious, maybe fulfil my curiosity and ask questions from the other 2. Interact etc, but must I include them in a space I made for the group I relate to?

The real issue is how or who defines that space to ensure it does not border towards hate. That is not as easy as one can imagine - so we often prefer to think of ways to be more inclusive.
I am not asking for proof of support or anything. I posing these questions as food for thought

, because the less we can define things properly it is unlikely we can come together. I may not agree with you on some or many points, but how you behave towards someone is the cornerstone for me on the likelihood of the chance to move forward.

The irony is for most people; the more things change the more they stay same.

01-31-2014, 12:59 PM	#2
BullDog Infamous Member How Do You Identify?: Dominant Stone Butch Daddy Preferred Pronoun?: She Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: In A Healing Place Posts: 5,371 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 18,160 Thanked 22,666 Times in 4,464 Posts Rep Power: 21474856	Well okay Tapu, your definition doesn't work for me. It feels quite narrow and I don't like people being reduced to body parts- or one body part. __________________ Love consists in this, that two solitudes protect and touch and greet each other. - Rainer Maria Rilke

02-15-2014, 03:09 PM	#5
puddin' Infamous Member How Do You Identify?: a genderqueer nuisance Preferred Pronoun?: bitchboi Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: new zealand Posts: 7,120 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 9,467 Thanked 7,962 Times in 2,340 Posts Rep Power: 21474857	a small interjection... https://www.kickstarter.com/projects...he-other-girls support if you can, and please share it along... ta __________________ be true, be you, be brave.

01-31-2014, 05:25 PM	#6
Paradox Junior Member How Do You Identify?: Constant Outsider - Humanist Preferred Pronoun?: She Relationship Status: Single Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Toronto - Canada Posts: 59 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 57 Thanked 191 Times in 49 Posts Rep Power: 1217577	The concept of butch femininity is interesting and even more importantly I am quite happy of how the posts evolved into something that I believe has been simmering for long time within the LGBT . The good, bad and ugly of it all in one thread. One thing I can not stand is the extreme extent of political correctness practically causing paralysis in our inability to discuss things openly and without perceiving harmful intent. Some great posts from Miss Tick, Kobi, HB for example. But there are too many points to address, but fundamentally the unrest from within the ‘community’ and use the term loosely is due combination of ambiguous definitions/IDs and the battle to be all inclusive. This is a situation that is not reserved for online community only I personally witnessed and experienced in real world as well. I never liked ID - Butch in my past for primarily the same reasons Miss Tick outlined (1st post). It was and some ways remains to mean ‘male’ vs masculine. The patriarchal dominance was not something I wanted to automatically embrace at the risk of leaving my equal matriarchal strengths behind. For me, my femininity is the ability to embrace and utilize my masculinity however I please, while remembering and loving - I am female. We all posses both energies within us. I enjoy the masculine elements that surface, but I still buy women’s clothes along with some male clothing, because I want to and I can. Our biggest umbrella is that we are human. There are many (perhaps too many) subcategories and with each addition the risk increases marginalization. We debate/discuss the IDs that exist and continue create alphabet soup of new IDs because we don’t like how one sounds or means (I am guilty of this myself). We have become our worst enemies . I’ll be a bit of devil’s advocate. Since there is no clean, concise way to define butch/femme (lines have become so blurred-maybe meaningless) why do we continue to use them? What exactly is a Butch or Femme? A definition that can be universally applied with little personal preferences? If lesbian is woman who is sexually attracted to other women - Is a FTM a lesbian? Is a Trans a lesbian? Can being inclusive really exist without some layer of discrimination? I do not mean in a extreme hate context? But if we claim inclusive what does that mean? If we have ‘spaces’ is that not a layer of discrimination? Don’t get me wrong I don’t believe you can claim inclusivity without excluding somewhere/someone unintentionally or intentionally. But I do believe in ‘spaces’ and they should be supported. EX: Main Group of Meteorologist. Sub-Group A: Common strait: Building miniature structures out of match sticks. Sub-Group B: Common Strait: Dress in Gothic. Sub-Group C: Common Strait: Fascination with tall people. Yes odd example - I am just picking random straits that pop into my mind . If I relate to only one group. I can be curious, maybe fulfil my curiosity and ask questions from the other 2. Interact etc, but must I include them in a space I made for the group I relate to? The real issue is how or who defines that space to ensure it does not border towards hate. That is not as easy as one can imagine - so we often prefer to think of ways to be more inclusive. I am not asking for proof of support or anything. I posing these questions as food for thought , because the less we can define things properly it is unlikely we can come together. I may not agree with you on some or many points, but how you behave towards someone is the cornerstone for me on the likelihood of the chance to move forward. The irony is for most people; the more things change the more they stay same.