The Westboro Baptist Church - Hate Group or?

Rufusboi · 04-26-2010, 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew, Jr.

The one issue I will never understand or even wrap my head around is when WBC claimed that we were to be blamed for 9/11. To me that is like saying Medusa is to be blamed for my hair to be brown.

Its that twisted logic at work. According to Phelps and gang, God hates American's tolerance of gays, therefore God is punishing America, therefore 9/11 is God punishing America for tolerating Gays ....I guess America is supposed to lock us up, or declare us illegal or something.

Apocalipstic · 04-27-2010, 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rufusboi

Its that twisted logic at work. According to Phelps and gang, God hates American's tolerance of gays, therefore God is punishing America, therefore 9/11 is God punishing America for tolerating Gays ....I guess America is supposed to lock us up, or declare us illegal or something.

It freaks me out that so many people actually do think we don't even deserve to be alive.

Lynn · 04-27-2010, 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by apocalipstic

It freaks me out that so many people actually do think we don't even deserve to be alive.

I agree. It freaks me out to consider all the anti-gay laws around the world which result in murder and torture for people who just want to be who they are. This group feels dangerous because they are so overt in their hatred, although I think it's true that the most dangerous people are the ones planning in secret. But, then again, how many more people think it's OK to express this hate openly when this group has made it so acceptable and proven that their freedom of speech will be upheld over the wellbeing and safety of others?

Apocalipstic · 04-27-2010, 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lynn

I agree. It freaks me out to consider all the anti-gay laws around the world which result in murder and torture for people who just want to be who they are. This group feels dangerous because they are so overt in their hatred, although I think it's true that the most dangerous people are the ones planning in secret. But, then again, how many more people think it's OK to express this hate openly when this group has made it so acceptable and proven that their freedom of speech will be upheld over the wellbeing and safety of others?

I guess until facebook, I kept myself pretty insulated from this sort of thing, now, it is all over the place and I am giving it more thought. It really is scary.

I hope people in general see how hate filled this is, and it backfires.

Luv · 03-17-2011, 12:33 PM

Phelps son was interviewed on tv last night. He ran away from the cult when he was 18. Even he says as many of us would agree..that it is fueled by hate by his father. He also mentioned that he is related to almost everyone in that group,,intermarrying is goin on.
At pride last year in San Diego I saw some people protesting the pride parade..I asked one of the guys holding a sign if he was with Phelps.Westboro..he said "No,,that guys an asshole" lol !
It is a cult fueled by hate

Rufusboi · 04-27-2010, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lynn

I agree. It freaks me out to consider all the anti-gay laws around the world which result in murder and torture for people who just want to be who they are. This group feels dangerous because they are so overt in their hatred, although I think it's true that the most dangerous people are the ones planning in secret. But, then again, how many more people think it's OK to express this hate openly when this group has made it so acceptable and proven that their freedom of speech will be upheld over the wellbeing and safety of others?

Even though I dislike what they do and say as long as they are not being physically violent, bombing gay bars etc I see them as harmless. The worse of the worse are the crazies that kill abortion doctors and bomb clinics. Phelps knows what lines to stay behind. And I dislike Phelps as much as anyone, but I'm on the side of free speech on this. The worse thing we can do is limit speech. I think the Arizona law is far far worse than Phelps. I think DOMA laws are far far worse than Phelps. Phelps' message is actually lost on most people who can't follow his weird logic. He's become a public nuisance but outside of that he doesn't warrant much attention. Phelps doesn't threaten physical safety. He hurts emotionally, he makes statements about us and about God and he shows up where he's not wanted, but none of that is illegal. If we make Phelps' pickets and banners illegal then next thing we know gay pride parades are illegal. Think about how many people are offended by Pride parades and by our banners. If we stop Phelps then they stop us.

Rufus

Apocalipstic · 04-27-2010, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rufusboi

Even though I dislike what they do and say as long as they are not being physically violent, bombing gay bars etc I see them as harmless. The worse of the worse are the crazies that kill abortion doctors and bomb clinics. Phelps knows what lines to stay behind. And I dislike Phelps as much as anyone, but I'm on the side of free speech on this. The worse thing we can do is limit speech. I think the Arizona law is far far worse than Phelps. I think DOMA laws are far far worse than Phelps. Phelps' message is actually lost on most people who can't follow his weird logic. He's become a public nuisance but I outside of that he doesn't warrant much attention. Phelps doesn't threaten physical safety. He hurts emotionally, he makes statements about us and about God and he shows up where he's not wanted, but none of that is illegal. If we make Phelps' pickets and banners illegal then next thing we know gay pride parades are illegal.

Rufus

Really great points!

Bit · 04-27-2010, 02:00 PM

Yes it is a family, yes it is a hate group, yes many of the members are lawyers, yes they are certainly after media attention.

Nate Phelps, the estranged son--ran as fast as he could when he turned eighteen--was recently in Kansas to speak against the group. They didn't picket him.

I guess they don't wish media attention drawn to someone who is believable, and has accused them of improprieties and even child abuse.

Cyclopea · 04-27-2010, 02:26 PM

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...4110804746107#

One of my fave quotes from the Hatemongers documentary is when one of his daughters, in addressing the concern that the family/church is a typical authoritarian cult with an all-powerful patriarch, states:
"Our Father would never permit us not to think for ourselves. He insists on us thinking everything through." lol.

I've never heard anyone ask them the obvious question: Has it occurred to them that they are actually helping gays politically more than hurting us?

I don't think they actually care about "gays", rather that they happened upon a meme that garnered them a great deal of attention. I think we should keep paying attention to them because the moment we get bored they are likely to start blowing things up. Or eating their babies (which they talk about an awful lot

).

suebee · 04-27-2010, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rufusboi

Even though I dislike what they do and say as long as they are not being physically violent, bombing gay bars etc I see them as harmless. The worse of the worse are the crazies that kill abortion doctors and bomb clinics. Phelps knows what lines to stay behind. And I dislike Phelps as much as anyone, but I'm on the side of free speech on this. The worse thing we can do is limit speech. I think the Arizona law is far far worse than Phelps. I think DOMA laws are far far worse than Phelps. Phelps' message is actually lost on most people who can't follow his weird logic. He's become a public nuisance but outside of that he doesn't warrant much attention. Phelps doesn't threaten physical safety. He hurts emotionally, he makes statements about us and about God and he shows up where he's not wanted, but none of that is illegal. If we make Phelps' pickets and banners illegal then next thing we know gay pride parades are illegal. Think about how many people are offended by Pride parades and by our banners. If we stop Phelps then they stop us.

Rufus

There are always examples of more harmful behavior Rufus. But I doubt that those grieving families who have had to endure the picketing of their loved one's funeral would call their COMPOUNDED emotional pain harmless. And I think of our sisters and brothers who are not yet out, who come across a web site called "God Hates Fags". Then I think of the suicide rate in our community - especially among adolescents. I have a hard time classifying what the Phelps call "free speech" and "God's work" as harmless. Sorry, I can't agree with you on this one.

Glad Canada told them they weren't welcome here.

Sue

Soon · 04-27-2010, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rufusboi

Even though I dislike what they do and say as long as they are not being physically violent, bombing gay bars etc I see them as harmless. The worse of the worse are the crazies that kill abortion doctors and bomb clinics. Phelps knows what lines to stay behind. And I dislike Phelps as much as anyone, but I'm on the side of free speech on this. The worse thing we can do is limit speech. I think the Arizona law is far far worse than Phelps. I think DOMA laws are far far worse than Phelps. Phelps' message is actually lost on most people who can't follow his weird logic. He's become a public nuisance but outside of that he doesn't warrant much attention. Phelps doesn't threaten physical safety. He hurts emotionally, he makes statements about us and about God and he shows up where he's not wanted, but none of that is illegal. If we make Phelps' pickets and banners illegal then next thing we know gay pride parades are illegal. Think about how many people are offended by Pride parades and by our banners. If we stop Phelps then they stop us.

Rufus

I'm with Sue on this one.

We don't have tolerance for hate speech here. (Canada)

I don't see the analogy b/w Pride and Phelps, either. Hate Speech laws are in place to stop people from spewing their hatred and possibly inciting violence towards others. Pride Parades would not fall under this category, so I fail to see how Pride would suffer due to the enactment and enforcement of Hate Speech laws.

Phelps is not welcome in our country and was, in fact, arrested here for Hate Speech.

I don't see my country suffering from any loss of freedom due to our hate speech laws.
I think these laws protect others and allows for a more humane and safe place in which to live.

Rufusboi · 04-27-2010, 02:28 PM

I think Canada is light years in front of the US. You have civil partnerships, national health, and a hate speech law. We have......pretty much zilch. I would love to marry my partner. We can't. Obama has thrown us a couple of scraps so far. So if I have to rank problems, Phelps and his banners get pushed down the list. I mean, I call DOMA a form of hate speech. Its far more powerful hate speech that anything Phelps can throw at me. Do I feel bad for the familes of soldiers that have to see and hear that crap...yes. The real hate speech is being spewed in our state and national legislatures. But its going to take more than a hate speech law to stop it. Hate speech comes in lots of different forms. A hate speech law in the US might stop the Phelps crew but its doesn't stop the politicians, the religious leaders who vote and preach against us.....no hate speech law will stop that. It just stops the crazies like Phelps. I think we waste too much time on Phelps.

Soon · 04-27-2010, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rufusboi

I think Canada is light years in front of the US. You have civil partnerships, national health, and a hate speech law. We have......pretty much zilch. I would love to marry my partner. We can't. Obama has thrown us a couple of scraps so far. So if I have to rank problems, Phelps and his banners get pushed down the list. I mean, I call DOMA a form of hate speech. Its far more powerful hate speech that anything Phelps can throw at me. Do I feel bad for the familes of soldiers that have to see and hear that crap...yes. The real hate speech is being spewed in our state and national legislatures. But its going to take more than a hate speech law to stop it. Hate speech comes in lots of different forms. A hate speech law in the US might stop the Phelps crew but its doesn't stop the politicians, the religious leaders who vote and preach against us.....no hate speech law will stop that. It just stops the crazies like Phelps. I think we waste too much time on Phelps.

Canada has had full marriage equality since 2005 as opposed to civil unions/partnerships (U.K.) which are separate from marriage.

-----

I see what you are saying about wasting time on Phelps, and that drawing attention to him is exactly what he seeks.

I know that discussing hate speech in a USA context is a bit moot considering it will never happens, so Westboro (and the like) have free reign to say what they want.

I think they are a hate group and don't think they are harmless, but I think the only way to combat them over there is to not give them the media attention they seek. (They did this in Gainesville, FL recently. The paper didn't give them any space/time).

I hope the USA does move forward on the main issues (DOMA, DADT, ENDA) that affect our community. My marriage is affected by the laws in your country and it is devastating, so I understand.

Cyclopea · 04-27-2010, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rufusboi

Even though I dislike what they do and say as long as they are not being physically violent, bombing gay bars etc I see them as harmless. The worse of the worse are the crazies that kill abortion doctors and bomb clinics. Phelps knows what lines to stay behind. And I dislike Phelps as much as anyone, but I'm on the side of free speech on this. The worse thing we can do is limit speech. I think the Arizona law is far far worse than Phelps. I think DOMA laws are far far worse than Phelps. Phelps' message is actually lost on most people who can't follow his weird logic. He's become a public nuisance but outside of that he doesn't warrant much attention. Phelps doesn't threaten physical safety. He hurts emotionally, he makes statements about us and about God and he shows up where he's not wanted, but none of that is illegal. If we make Phelps' pickets and banners illegal then next thing we know gay pride parades are illegal. Think about how many people are offended by Pride parades and by our banners. If we stop Phelps then they stop us.

Rufus

I agree. Yay First Amendment!

Ebon · 03-17-2011, 10:33 AM

"Nothing worse than a monster who thinks he's right with God."

Captain Malcolm Reynolds,

betenoire · 03-17-2011, 11:30 AM

I still think he's a faux news smegwaffle, but I agree with him here. I'm surprised, though, that the tea baggers aren't burning him in effigy over this.

EnderD_503 · 03-17-2011, 12:26 PM

I see them as both a Baptist Church/Christian org. and a hate group.

Edit: I'm apparently temporarily dislexic and thought the question read if we saw that as a church or as a hate group. Bleh, anyways, either way I think what they do shouldn't be permitted by law. Alone they would be somewhat neutered, but there are a heck of a lot of groups out there that are seen as somewhat more "legit" that follow a very similar pattern. Not a harmless group that is for sure.

Sheridan · 11-01-2013, 05:56 AM

Westboro Baptist Church is a religious hate group, using religious passages to try and prove their hatred towards others is justified. They hate everyone I think , but they do hate the LGBTQ community just a little more in that special way only they can, nasty signs and screaming hate words to random people passing by.

macele · 11-01-2013, 07:00 AM

i wouldn't want to engage with any of these people. they have a deep dark hatred inside of them. engaging only leads to anger. that's what they want. refuse them acknowledgement.

it's not about being baptist. or methodist. pentecostal. and so on. it's hate. a hateful heart.

04-27-2010, 02:00 PM	#8
Bit Senior Member How Do You Identify?: Stonefemme Relationship Status: married to Gryph Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Wichita, KS Posts: 2,177 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 1,126 Thanked 3,770 Times in 1,264 Posts Rep Power: 10778870	what I think... Yes it is a family, yes it is a hate group, yes many of the members are lawyers, yes they are certainly after media attention. Nate Phelps, the estranged son--ran as fast as he could when he turned eighteen--was recently in Kansas to speak against the group. They didn't picket him. I guess they don't wish media attention drawn to someone who is believable, and has accused them of improprieties and even child abuse.

04-27-2010, 02:26 PM	#9
Cyclopea Member How Do You Identify?: Butch Lesbian Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Exit Zero Posts: 1,267 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 1,694 Thanked 1,615 Times in 632 Posts Rep Power: 226200	http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...4110804746107# One of my fave quotes from the Hatemongers documentary is when one of his daughters, in addressing the concern that the family/church is a typical authoritarian cult with an all-powerful patriarch, states: "Our Father would never permit us not to think for ourselves. He insists on us thinking everything through." lol. I've never heard anyone ask them the obvious question: Has it occurred to them that they are actually helping gays politically more than hurting us? I don't think they actually care about "gays", rather that they happened upon a meme that garnered them a great deal of attention. I think we should keep paying attention to them because the moment we get bored they are likely to start blowing things up. Or eating their babies (which they talk about an awful lot ). __________________ http://forum.axishistory.com/images/...arious/eye.jpg

03-17-2011, 10:33 AM	#15
Ebon Senior Member How Do You Identify?: With my souls eyes. Preferred Pronoun?: He Relationship Status: lol Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Here Posts: 3,476 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 10,524 Thanked 11,142 Times in 2,757 Posts Rep Power: 21474855	"Nothing worse than a monster who thinks he's right with God." Captain Malcolm Reynolds, __________________ In Lak'ech Ala K'in I'm a Soul Rebel http://wannabereverend.wordpress.com/ Spirituality is not a belief system or ideology, it is the surrender of one's ego to the infinite wisdom and knowledge that is the universe.

03-17-2011, 11:30 AM	#16
betenoire Senior Member How Do You Identify?: Satan in a Sunday Hat Preferred Pronoun?: Maow Relationship Status: Married Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: The Chemical Valley Posts: 4,086 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 3,312 Thanked 8,739 Times in 2,565 Posts Rep Power: 21474856	I still think he's a faux news smegwaffle, but I agree with him here. I'm surprised, though, that the tea baggers aren't burning him in effigy over this. __________________ bête noire \bet-NWAHR\, noun: One that is particularly disliked or that is to be avoided.

11-01-2013, 05:56 AM	#18
Sheridan Junior Member How Do You Identify?: Transmasculine Preferred Pronoun?: Just call me Sheridan Relationship Status: Single and looking Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: California Posts: 36 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 78 Thanked 99 Times in 27 Posts Rep Power: 1501902	Westboro Baptist Church Westboro Baptist Church is a religious hate group, using religious passages to try and prove their hatred towards others is justified. They hate everyone I think , but they do hate the LGBTQ community just a little more in that special way only they can, nasty signs and screaming hate words to random people passing by.

03-17-2011, 12:33 PM	#5
Luv Member How Do You Identify?: .... Relationship Status: .. Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: ..... Posts: 753 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 1,199 Thanked 1,217 Times in 367 Posts Rep Power: 12549741	Phelps son was interviewed on tv last night. He ran away from the cult when he was 18. Even he says as many of us would agree..that it is fueled by hate by his father. He also mentioned that he is related to almost everyone in that group,,intermarrying is goin on. At pride last year in San Diego I saw some people protesting the pride parade..I asked one of the guys holding a sign if he was with Phelps.Westboro..he said "No,,that guys an asshole" lol ! It is a cult fueled by hate

04-27-2010, 02:28 PM	#12
Rufusboi Member How Do You Identify?: Trans Preferred Pronoun?: He Relationship Status: Partnered Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: SouthTexas - On the Gulf Posts: 694 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 210 Thanked 429 Times in 162 Posts Rep Power: 505008	I think Canada is light years in front of the US. You have civil partnerships, national health, and a hate speech law. We have......pretty much zilch. I would love to marry my partner. We can't. Obama has thrown us a couple of scraps so far. So if I have to rank problems, Phelps and his banners get pushed down the list. I mean, I call DOMA a form of hate speech. Its far more powerful hate speech that anything Phelps can throw at me. Do I feel bad for the familes of soldiers that have to see and hear that crap...yes. The real hate speech is being spewed in our state and national legislatures. But its going to take more than a hate speech law to stop it. Hate speech comes in lots of different forms. A hate speech law in the US might stop the Phelps crew but its doesn't stop the politicians, the religious leaders who vote and preach against us.....no hate speech law will stop that. It just stops the crazies like Phelps. I think we waste too much time on Phelps.

03-17-2011, 12:26 PM	#17
EnderD_503 Member How Do You Identify?: Queer, trans guy, butch Preferred Pronoun?: Male pronouns Relationship Status: Relationship Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Canada Posts: 1,329 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 4,090 Thanked 3,878 Times in 1,022 Posts Rep Power: 21474853	I see them as both a Baptist Church/Christian org. and a hate group. Edit: I'm apparently temporarily dislexic and thought the question read if we saw that as a church or as a hate group. Bleh, anyways, either way I think what they do shouldn't be permitted by law. Alone they would be somewhat neutered, but there are a heck of a lot of groups out there that are seen as somewhat more "legit" that follow a very similar pattern. Not a harmless group that is for sure.

11-01-2013, 07:00 AM	#19
macele Member How Do You Identify?: a bold-assed maximus Preferred Pronoun?: she Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: mississippi Posts: 1,066 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 3,178 Thanked 3,230 Times in 847 Posts Rep Power: 21474850	i wouldn't want to engage with any of these people. they have a deep dark hatred inside of them. engaging only leads to anger. that's what they want. refuse them acknowledgement. it's not about being baptist. or methodist. pentecostal. and so on. it's hate. a hateful heart.