It's Time to Boycott Arizona

Apocalipstic · 04-29-2010, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by June

Apoc -- You are right and I totally glossed over this. Let me see if I can get Kat in here, we have had this conversation in our house a few times and she is way more savvy on the ins and outs of international politics than I am. I'm all about the touchy/feely human stuff.

cool!

Most of the problems the US has now are self created which for me is why I makes me even more brokenhearted when people like you said think "I got mine, you need to stay the hell away"

Kat · 04-29-2010, 11:43 AM

I've read so many excellent pieces about the rise in "illegal" immigration from Mexico, resulting from the many inherent flaws in the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA), signed into law by my buddy, Bill Clinton, in 1994.

Unfortunately, my powers of recall are virtually non-existent. But I do know that NAFTA essentially forced Mexico to import more agriculture products from the U.S. like corn, soybeans, wheat, etc. that they grow themselves just fine, but that happen to be HEAVILY subsidized by the U.S. government, and thus are much, much cheaper.This basically wiped out the already-struggling poor Mexican farmers, which is one of the primary causes of increased immigration in the last 16 years. Before Bill Clinton...I mean, NAFTA...you didn't hear about people dying in the desert in the hope of making it to the land of hope and dreams for a better future. Nobody was talking about building walls to keep people out, either. NAFTA definitely started the ball rolling...

(Pretty good summary of NAFTA and its flaws from CounterPunch this past January: http://www.counterpunch.org/gallagher01012010.html)

But the fact that Arizona has been one of the states hardest hit by the U.S. housing collapse has led directly to this crazy new law there. Folks in AZ have lost their houses at an alarming rate, and who is always to blame at times like this, when everything is going to hell? THOSE people -- "it's THEIR fault I don't have a job, it's THEIR fault my house has lost 75% of it's value! Them and the GAYS! Let's get 'em!" A story as old as time itself...

(Article from Salon yesterday about the British Prime Minister calling a constituent a bigot, but makes a broader point about how bad economic policies lead some people to lash out at others different from them, and also mentions Arizona: http://www.salon.com/news/politics/w...ion/index.html)

Apocalipstic · 04-29-2010, 01:47 PM

Thank you Kat! Yes indeed.

But US meddling goes wayyyy father back.

The US and US companies have meddled in pretty much all of South and Central America since there has been a US.

United Fruit Company, UFCO, owned huge tracts of land in the area of now is (to mention a few) the Bahamas, Cuba, Costa Rica, Columbia, Ecuador, Jamaica, Guatemala, etc. They built and controlled 100% of transportation and communication in these countries and established who ran them and who got to work.

The Panama Canal, we took the land from Columbia and created the Canal Zone, which only recently was allowed it's independence.

Cuba? Between UFCO and organized crime (Mafia), Cuba is now communist because of the US. Period.

Honduras?

Nicaragua?

Chile?

Argentina?

The CIA and the US government in my lifetime has been all up in coups and trying to run everything.

The raping of these countries has gone on for 200 years, and we now want to harass everyone with brown skin who "might" be from a country we destroyed for their papers. Papers some think it should not be a big deal for them to carry and use as examples Nazi Germany, the Soviet Union and North Korea.

I really am almost (heh) speechless.

OK OK, I actually could go on and on about why the problem of undocumented workers from Mexico, the Caribbean, Central & South America is the fault of the USA.

The US created the mess and the US needs to fix it.

The war on drugs in not the answer.

The war on undocumented workers not the answer.

War makes it sound like there is an enemy which should be defeated...but the enemy is and has been the US in this disaster.

Don't make me pull out my US Diplomatic History textbook now....

UofMfan · 04-29-2010, 02:17 PM

We could start a whole new thread on what Kat and Apocalipstic have brought up.

I have one author to recommend, Noam Chomsky, the man is a genius, if anyone wants to expand their horizons and see how far back this began.

Apocalipstic · 04-29-2010, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UofMfan

We could start a whole new thread on what Kat and Apocalipstic have brought up.

I have one author to recommend, Noam Chomsky, the man is a genius, if anyone wants to expand their horizons and see how far back this began.

Or we could go back to my ill fated thread on why it is arrogant for people in the US to call ourselves "American", like we are the only ones who are.

Sorry for the derail!

I hope this new law is stomped out as unconstitutional as quickly as possible, and the people of Arizona can get back to their lives.

Soon · 04-29-2010, 02:31 PM

Immigration is Most Definitely a Feminist Issue

Apocalipstic · 04-29-2010, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HowSoonIsNow

Immigration is Most Definitely a Feminist Issue

What a great article, thank you so much for posting it. I have been so angered by all te other elements of this, that I have forgotten the feminist angle and how women are more targeted and way more likely to be raped.

Also, it talks about the history of the Southwest.

Very interesting! Thanks again!

UofMfan · 04-29-2010, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by apocalipstic

Or we could go back to my ill fated thread on why it is arrogant for people in the US to call ourselves "American", like we are the only ones who are.

Sorry for the derail!

I hope this new law is stomped out as unconstitutional as quickly as possible, and the people of Arizona can get back to their lives.

Oh God no I almost lost my lunch in that thread.

Dean Thoreau · 04-29-2010, 03:57 PM

i love noam chomsky.....thank god he is not in arizona

I don't understand....why do people automatically assume that illegal immigrant= Hispanic person????

there are plenty of canadians who r living in the USA illegally to avoid taxes, or because they have not paid their taxes,,,plenty of individuals from ireland, germany, austria, korea, china, vietnam, ....

well anyway, I am not fond of the law, but something needs to be done to stop the influx of illegal immigrants brought in to the USA by corporations so they can pay slave wages and exploit workers; tho i do think it would be better to fine the corporations so much they have to lower their stock dividends....but John McCain would not like that,,,his wife might lower his allowance.

Apocalipstic · 04-29-2010, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dean Thoreau

i love noam chomsky.....thank god he is not in arizona

I don't understand....why do people automatically assume that illegal immigrant= Hispanic person????

there are plenty of canadians who r living in the USA illegally to avoid taxes, or because they have not paid their taxes,,,plenty of individuals from ireland, germany, austria, korea, china, vietnam, ....

well anyway, I am not fond of the law, but something needs to be done to stop the influx of illegal immigrants brought in to the USA by corporations so they can pay slave wages and exploit workers; tho i do think it would be better to fine the corporations so much they have to lower their stock dividends....but John McCain would not like that,,,his wife might lower his allowance.

Very good point! There are undocumented workers from all over.

I don't know about Arizona, but in my state they don't pull over anyone for looking Canadian though.

I do not agree that we need to stop people from immigrating to the US, but I do agree that the huge corporations need to be fined for their hiring practices and their penchant for using indentured slaves.

04-29-2010, 01:47 PM	#3
Apocalipstic Pink Confection How Do You Identify?: Femme Preferred Pronoun?: She, Her, Ma'am Relationship Status: Dating Myself Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Nashville Posts: 4,266 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 17,195 Thanked 11,360 Times in 2,838 Posts Rep Power: 21474857	Thank you Kat! Yes indeed. But US meddling goes wayyyy father back. The US and US companies have meddled in pretty much all of South and Central America since there has been a US. United Fruit Company, UFCO, owned huge tracts of land in the area of now is (to mention a few) the Bahamas, Cuba, Costa Rica, Columbia, Ecuador, Jamaica, Guatemala, etc. They built and controlled 100% of transportation and communication in these countries and established who ran them and who got to work. The Panama Canal, we took the land from Columbia and created the Canal Zone, which only recently was allowed it's independence. Cuba? Between UFCO and organized crime (Mafia), Cuba is now communist because of the US. Period. Honduras? Nicaragua? Chile? Argentina? The CIA and the US government in my lifetime has been all up in coups and trying to run everything. The raping of these countries has gone on for 200 years, and we now want to harass everyone with brown skin who "might" be from a country we destroyed for their papers. Papers some think it should not be a big deal for them to carry and use as examples Nazi Germany, the Soviet Union and North Korea. I really am almost (heh) speechless. OK OK, I actually could go on and on about why the problem of undocumented workers from Mexico, the Caribbean, Central & South America is the fault of the USA. The US created the mess and the US needs to fix it. The war on drugs in not the answer. The war on undocumented workers not the answer. War makes it sound like there is an enemy which should be defeated...but the enemy is and has been the US in this disaster. Don't make me pull out my US Diplomatic History textbook now.... __________________

04-29-2010, 03:57 PM	#9
Dean Thoreau Member How Do You Identify?: Ftm - Male- exfemale Preferred Pronoun?: He’s Him Relationship Status: Has a gf Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Philadelphia pa Posts: 889 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 251 Thanked 763 Times in 219 Posts Rep Power: 4529750	i love noam chomsky.....thank god he is not in arizona I don't understand....why do people automatically assume that illegal immigrant= Hispanic person???? there are plenty of canadians who r living in the USA illegally to avoid taxes, or because they have not paid their taxes,,,plenty of individuals from ireland, germany, austria, korea, china, vietnam, .... well anyway, I am not fond of the law, but something needs to be done to stop the influx of illegal immigrants brought in to the USA by corporations so they can pay slave wages and exploit workers; tho i do think it would be better to fine the corporations so much they have to lower their stock dividends....but John McCain would not like that,,,his wife might lower his allowance. __________________ Dean Thoreau

04-29-2010, 11:43 AM	#2
Kat Junior Member How Do You Identify?: I do not, thanks Preferred Pronoun?: She Relationship Status: Taken Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 51 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 229 Thanked 151 Times in 37 Posts Rep Power: 1472369	I've read so many excellent pieces about the rise in "illegal" immigration from Mexico, resulting from the many inherent flaws in the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA), signed into law by my buddy, Bill Clinton, in 1994. Unfortunately, my powers of recall are virtually non-existent. But I do know that NAFTA essentially forced Mexico to import more agriculture products from the U.S. like corn, soybeans, wheat, etc. that they grow themselves just fine, but that happen to be HEAVILY subsidized by the U.S. government, and thus are much, much cheaper.This basically wiped out the already-struggling poor Mexican farmers, which is one of the primary causes of increased immigration in the last 16 years. Before Bill Clinton...I mean, NAFTA...you didn't hear about people dying in the desert in the hope of making it to the land of hope and dreams for a better future. Nobody was talking about building walls to keep people out, either. NAFTA definitely started the ball rolling... (Pretty good summary of NAFTA and its flaws from CounterPunch this past January: http://www.counterpunch.org/gallagher01012010.html) But the fact that Arizona has been one of the states hardest hit by the U.S. housing collapse has led directly to this crazy new law there. Folks in AZ have lost their houses at an alarming rate, and who is always to blame at times like this, when everything is going to hell? THOSE people -- "it's THEIR fault I don't have a job, it's THEIR fault my house has lost 75% of it's value! Them and the GAYS! Let's get 'em!" A story as old as time itself... (Article from Salon yesterday about the British Prime Minister calling a constituent a bigot, but makes a broader point about how bad economic policies lead some people to lash out at others different from them, and also mentions Arizona: http://www.salon.com/news/politics/w...ion/index.html)

04-29-2010, 02:17 PM	#4
UofMfan Infamous Member How Do You Identify?: Butch Relationship Status: A very happy Mr. Grumpy Cat Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Neither here or there Posts: 7,987 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 27,733 Thanked 18,935 Times in 4,705 Posts Rep Power: 21474860	We could start a whole new thread on what Kat and Apocalipstic have brought up. I have one author to recommend, Noam Chomsky, the man is a genius, if anyone wants to expand their horizons and see how far back this began.

04-29-2010, 02:31 PM	#6
Soon Infamous Member How Do You Identify?: femme Relationship Status: attached Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: . Posts: 6,896 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 29,046 Thanked 13,093 Times in 3,386 Posts Rep Power: 21474859	Immigration is Most Definitely a Feminist Issue