It's Time to Boycott Arizona

[Apocalipstic]

Originally Posted by UofMfan

We could start a whole new thread on what Kat and Apocalipstic have brought up.

I have one author to recommend, Noam Chomsky, the man is a genius, if anyone wants to expand their horizons and see how far back this began.

Or we could go back to my ill fated thread on why it is arrogant for people in the US to call ourselves "American", like we are the only ones who are.

Sorry for the derail!

I hope this new law is stomped out as unconstitutional as quickly as possible, and the people of Arizona can get back to their lives.

[Soon]

Immigration is Most Definitely a Feminist Issue

[Apocalipstic]

Originally Posted by HowSoonIsNow

Immigration is Most Definitely a Feminist Issue

What a great article, thank you so much for posting it. I have been so angered by all te other elements of this, that I have forgotten the feminist angle and how women are more targeted and way more likely to be raped.

Also, it talks about the history of the Southwest.

Very interesting! Thanks again!

[Andrew, Jr.]

It was announced on the local 5pm news here that the same law that was signed in Ariz. is being considered to be a new law in Maryland. There is going to be a poll taken by the state senate next week. Fuck.

[BornBronson]

I won't be boycotting them.Things got so bad,specially near the borders that something had to be done.Gov.Brewer did what she thought was necessary in order to gain attention to this serious immigration problem,because it is a huge problem in this county.God knows that Mr.Obama isn't doing much to solve it,well,he might if it gets him another 4 years in office.Actually,that may be what he's planning now.Oh,to have the latino vote,good call Mr.Obama.

We as Americans have to go by the law,what is so wrong with wanting people to go by the law?.Yes,there will be a few racist assholes out there,but you can't say the every law officer in Arizona now is a racist cop because he or she is pulling over those they suspect are in this country illegally,they are just doing their jobs,right?,right.

I have Mexican blood running through my veins.I have black hair and brown eyes and skin.If I get pulled over in Arizona someday because of that,trust me,I will have my camera rolling and I will be taking names and badge numbers.The lawyers will love me.But I have this gut instinct that they'll be having fun regardless if that day ever comes.

But I do understand why the good state of Arizona was 'forced' into this law.

This is just how I feel and I know not everyone will feel the same way,so be it.

[apretty]

ANYway....

[The_Lady_Snow]

Originally Posted by BornBronson

I won't be boycotting them.Things got so bad,specially near the borders that something had to be done.Gov.Brewer did what she thought was necessary in order to gain attention to this serious immigration problem,because it is a huge problem in this county.God knows that Mr.Obama isn't doing much to solve it,well,he might if it gets him another 4 years in office.Actually,that may be what he's planning now.Oh,to have the latino vote,good call Mr.Obama.

We as Americans have to go by the law,what is so wrong with wanting people to go by the law?.Yes,there will be a few racist assholes out there,but you can't say the every law officer in Arizona now is a racist cop because he or she is pulling over those they suspect are in this country illegally,they are just doing their jobs,right?,right.

I have Mexican blood running through my veins.I have black hair and brown eyes and skin.If I get pulled over in Arizona someday because of that,trust me,I will have my camera rolling and I will be taking names and badge numbers.The lawyers will love me.But I have this gut instinct that they'll be having fun regardless if that day ever comes.

But I do understand why the good state of Arizona was 'forced' into this law.

This is just how I feel and I know not everyone will feel the same way,so be it.

I too have Mexican heritage, therefore why I give a shit..... I love my culture, I live my people, I love how hard we work, how deep we are, and how passionate we are.. So therefore when I see my people being targeted with more shit than they already put up with, I wanna be there front line with them.

[firie]

Originally Posted by BornBronson

We as Americans have to go by the law,what is so wrong with wanting people to go by the law?.Yes,there will be a few racist assholes out there,but you can't say the every law officer in Arizona now is a racist cop because he or she is pulling over those they suspect are in this country illegally,they are just doing their jobs,right?,right.

See, I beg to differ. If they assist in implementing racist laws, and take a paycheck for it, and don't speak out against it, or try to impact change, then they are indeed very racist cops.

And no, not all American citizens have to "go by the law", nor do they get busted for it when they are not following it. Millions upon millions of white people cross into the US through the Canadian borders illegally each year, and we will never ask our police to yank them out of cars and send them back to their country. Never. I don't suspect cops will be looking for British "illegals" (I quote that because we are very quick to point out Mexican "illegals" but never the ever so pale Brits!) when they are trying to "follow the law." It will be their own personal biases which are used to truly carry out the law, and, I am quite sure, as I said, white people (and there are millions but that is never highlighted because we are a racist country, and so we don't mind white immigration) won't be harassed, or jailed and then shipped up and out of here.

US Immigration "issues" or "problems" are always about brown and black skin and never, really ever about white skin--despite the millions who are here.

[apretty]

in addition to what Firie has posted, i'd like to remind everyone that we have the moral obligation to disobey unjust laws.

additionally, "everything Hitler did in Germany was legal" -MLK, Jr.

[MsDemeanor]

Originally Posted by BornBronson

God knows that Mr.Obama isn't doing much to solve it

Gee, Obama's been in office a little over a year. He's had to deal with pesky little things like economic meltdown and two wars.

McCain, meanwhile, has been Arizona's elected representative in Washington for 28 years. This should be at the very top of his priority list, yet after 28 years, it's still a problem. Why point the blame at the new kid on the block instead of at the guy who's been around and representing that very state for almost 3 decades?

Originally Posted by BornBronson

God knows that Mr.Obama isn't doing much to solve it,well,he might if it gets him another 4 years in office.Actually,that may be what he's planning now.Oh,to have the latino vote,good call Mr.Obama.

It's not Obama trying to gain minority votes that pushed this up the priority list. The Republicans did this. The AZ legislature started it and several other states and lots of big mouths on Faux Newz are pushing it along. If Obama gains latino support from this, it'll be because of what the Republicans are doing.

By the way, why is a bad thing when liberals court minority voters, but not when conservatives court those voters? It's politics and public elections - it's ALL about courting votes. That's what elections are, and I wish that people would quit talking about it like it's wrong.

[apretty]

Originally Posted by MsDemeanor

By the way, why is a bad thing when liberals court minority voters, but not when conservatives court those voters? It's politics and public elections - it's ALL about courting votes. That's what elections are, and I wish that people would quit talking about it like it's wrong.

thanks for mentioning this (as well as the rest of your post). i also don't get the qualifier, 'minority' to define a voter. like, as if their vote is somehow less desirable.

[Corkey]

Originally Posted by BornBronson

I won't be boycotting them.Things got so bad,specially near the borders that something had to be done.Gov.Brewer did what she thought was necessary in order to gain attention to this serious immigration problem,because it is a huge problem in this county.God knows that Mr.Obama isn't doing much to solve it,well,he might if it gets him another 4 years in office.Actually,that may be what he's planning now.Oh,to have the latino vote,good call Mr.Obama.

We as Americans have to go by the law,what is so wrong with wanting people to go by the law?.Yes,there will be a few racist assholes out there,but you can't say the every law officer in Arizona now is a racist cop because he or she is pulling over those they suspect are in this country illegally,they are just doing their jobs,right?,right.

I have Mexican blood running through my veins.I have black hair and brown eyes and skin.If I get pulled over in Arizona someday because of that,trust me,I will have my camera rolling and I will be taking names and badge numbers.The lawyers will love me.But I have this gut instinct that they'll be having fun regardless if that day ever comes.

But I do understand why the good state of Arizona was 'forced' into this law.

This is just how I feel and I know not everyone will feel the same way,so be it.

Problem is the Gov, usurped the federal mandate. That is against the 14th amendment. She broke federal law in signing Az's racist law.
The rest of your post has been answered by others.

[key]

Originally Posted by BornBronson

God knows that Mr.Obama isn't .........,good call Mr.Obama.

.

While "Mr. Obama" is a "Mister", he is actually much more than just a "Mr."

"Mr. Obama" is actually "President Obama" It is a title that only 43 other humans on earth have held. It is a pretty big damn title that has been and continues to be earned and should be respected.

By calling President Obama "Mr. Obama" it feels to me as a show of your disdain and disrespect for him, the man and for the office and title that he holds.

Just had to say something.

Carry on.

[Diva]

Say what You will about Texas.....but there are plans for the Austin City Council ~ I know, it's just Austin ~ to Boycott Arizona at their next meeting in a couple of weeks.

Austin will take any business with Arizona elsewhere.

Evidently, there are several other cities around the nation who are doing the same thing.

[dreadgeek]

Originally Posted by BornBronson

I won't be boycotting them.Things got so bad,specially near the borders that something had to be done.Gov.Brewer did what she thought was necessary in order to gain attention to this serious immigration problem,because it is a huge problem in this county.God knows that Mr.Obama isn't doing much to solve it,well,he might if it gets him another 4 years in office.Actually,that may be what he's planning now.Oh,to have the latino vote,good call Mr.Obama.

We as Americans have to go by the law,what is so wrong with wanting people to go by the law?.Yes,there will be a few racist assholes out there,but you can't say the every law officer in Arizona now is a racist cop because he or she is pulling over those they suspect are in this country illegally,they are just doing their jobs,right?,right.

I have Mexican blood running through my veins.I have black hair and brown eyes and skin.If I get pulled over in Arizona someday because of that,trust me,I will have my camera rolling and I will be taking names and badge numbers.The lawyers will love me.But I have this gut instinct that they'll be having fun regardless if that day ever comes.

But I do understand why the good state of Arizona was 'forced' into this law.

This is just how I feel and I know not everyone will feel the same way,so be it.

I'm far less sanguine about this law than you are. I'm far less sanguine about racial profiling than you are. I'll tell you why.

When I was 15 I was getting ready to do my paper route. My routine was this:

Fold the papers, load them in a bag, bring the bags to the front porch and then go to the backyard and get my bike, bring that around to the front porch, load the bags on the bike, put my shoulder bags on and then leave. This had been my routine for three or four years at this point. One cold December morning, a couple of weeks before Christmas, I was just finishing up that very last bit when one of Sacramento's Finest drove by and stopped at the stop sign (we lived on a corner lot). He saw a black kid in a neighborhood that was 99% white (there were three black families within about a square mile) and pops his light on me. He then gets out of his vehicle, tells me to approach the car slowly. I get to the edge of the lawn and notice he has his gun out and trained on me. He asked me "what are you doing in this neighborhood". I told him I lived here. He then said, "right. What are you doing out so early." I told him I was getting ready to deliver my papers. Now, this is important. I have bags on my shoulders with reflective material that spelled out 'Sacramento Bee'. There's a bike, with similar bags on the rack. He then asked if I had any idea. I said I was 15. He said "I didn't ask your age, I asked for your ID". I told him I had a bus pass, a student ID and a library card, all of which were upstairs. He asked if I had a key. I said I did. He asked to see it. I VERY SLOWLY pulled it out of my pocket. He then asked, "Does it fit THAT door?" At this point, I got pissed (which just shows how smart I wasn't at 15) and said "yes, officer. Perhaps we should wake my dad up and we can see if his key fits the door." I then dropped the name of one of my dad's friends who was a superior court judge and said perhaps we should drive to his house and see if his key fit his door.

At that point, I think this officer saw his career flash before his eyes and told me that he was just being cautious because there had been a string of robberies along our street. The thing is, my parents were head of the neighborhood watch! There hadn't been a burglary within 6 blocks of us in over two years! This man harassed me for one reason and one reason only, I was black in a white neighborhood. Now, it turned out okay but it did so because in the pinch of the moment, I had some serious juice I could borrow from the prominence of my parents in the community. One can easily imagine a whole lot of iterations of that scenario that don't turn out that well.

I have a modest proposal that I like to bring up in discussions of immigration because, given this nation's history I think it is *entirely* reasonable for people of color to be *highly* suspect of racial profiling and not at all out of touch for us to think that no small part of the immigration hysteria is about the color of the skin of the people. Here's my proposal.

For the next generation (20-25 years) no immigration, of anyone, from anywhere, for any reason *except* for people seeking political asylum. That means no H1Bs, no actors, baseball or football players, no one, period. Now, if you are really and truly worried about illegal immigration, then you should think this proposal sounds like a pretty good--if somewhat draconian--idea. It takes race out of the question and allows us to deal *solely* with the question of how to best allow immigrants in. If, however, you think "well, no, we needn't do that", then I submit to you that it may be worthwhile to consider that perhaps some of the energy driving the anti-immigration hysteria has less to do with people being here illegally and more to do with *brown people* being here illegally.

I suspect that if, instead of Juan and Rosa coming from south of the border, it were Seamus and Catherine, coming from England there would be far less outcry even IF the latter were coming in the same numbers.

Btw. I want to be clear, I'm not saying that YOU are racist, please don't have that reaction. I AM saying that I think that beneath the surface (and not that submerged at that) of the general weltanschung that 'they' are 'coming in droves' and want to 'change our culture' is a fear of brown people. One must admit that fear of brown people is as American as the apple pie, Chrevolet and invading nations filled with non-white people with names we have trouble pronouncing. Even the most cursory and superficial glance over American history shows that.

[Toughy]

I don't have the all the links, but you can start with this guy......Kris Kobach ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kris_Kobach ) then follow up with FAIR (mentioned above) and The Pioneer Fund and guess who .......the John Birch Society.

The fun thing about Kobach is he wrote the AZ law and a similiar law in OK that was tossed out and declared unconstitutional by federal courts. The AZ is unconstitutional based on the 14 amendment.

Another fun thing is the AZ law requires police officers be trained in how to implement the new law and guess who that rat bastard Arpaio is going to use to train his officers at 300 bucks an hour.

There is also another little clause in that law that allows citizens of AZ to file suit against any law enforcement agency they think is not enforcing the law. The law is apparently set up so Kobach can represent either side in the suit.....guess he can't decide which is more important: racism or money...

reading the law and doing some research is kinda interesting sometimes......

[Toughy]

How about the sheriff in Pima Country....Tucson and a whole bunch of the AZ/Mexico border..............

Pima County (according to Sheriff Dupnik) has the highest rate of detaining and turning over to ICE undocumented folks using the laws already on the books. He pointed that the new law requires police to arrest and detain folks in local/county/state jails/detention facilities. This will cost AZ taxpayers a whole bunch o money......before this law was passed, if you found an undocumented person, you called ICE and they came and got them.........no cost to AZ....it's a federal cost.

Sheriff Dupnik says the law is unconstitutional and he will not enforce it. The laws on the books now work just fine.

[UofMfan]

Originally Posted by apocalipstic

Or we could go back to my ill fated thread on why it is arrogant for people in the US to call ourselves "American", like we are the only ones who are.

Sorry for the derail!

I hope this new law is stomped out as unconstitutional as quickly as possible, and the people of Arizona can get back to their lives.

Oh God no I almost lost my lunch in that thread.

[Dean Thoreau]

i love noam chomsky.....thank god he is not in arizona

I don't understand....why do people automatically assume that illegal immigrant= Hispanic person????

there are plenty of canadians who r living in the USA illegally to avoid taxes, or because they have not paid their taxes,,,plenty of individuals from ireland, germany, austria, korea, china, vietnam, ....

well anyway, I am not fond of the law, but something needs to be done to stop the influx of illegal immigrants brought in to the USA by corporations so they can pay slave wages and exploit workers; tho i do think it would be better to fine the corporations so much they have to lower their stock dividends....but John McCain would not like that,,,his wife might lower his allowance.

[Apocalipstic]

Originally Posted by Dean Thoreau

i love noam chomsky.....thank god he is not in arizona

I don't understand....why do people automatically assume that illegal immigrant= Hispanic person????

there are plenty of canadians who r living in the USA illegally to avoid taxes, or because they have not paid their taxes,,,plenty of individuals from ireland, germany, austria, korea, china, vietnam, ....

well anyway, I am not fond of the law, but something needs to be done to stop the influx of illegal immigrants brought in to the USA by corporations so they can pay slave wages and exploit workers; tho i do think it would be better to fine the corporations so much they have to lower their stock dividends....but John McCain would not like that,,,his wife might lower his allowance.

Very good point! There are undocumented workers from all over.

I don't know about Arizona, but in my state they don't pull over anyone for looking Canadian though.


I do not agree that we need to stop people from immigrating to the US, but I do agree that the huge corporations need to be fined for their hiring practices and their penchant for using indentured slaves.