the Femme Rules the Butch Rules

[nicetgurl_30]

What I love the most about this site, is that ppl are allowed and accepted for who they are here. It would be ashamed if all those restrictions we placed on someone simply because they posted a stereotype joke in the humor section.

If we don't agree w someones statement or choice is it"our" duty to teach them that their wrong till they think or behave like the "majority"

Sorry for spelling errors.

[Corkey]

Know your audience, all comics know this one rule.

[ravfem]

*waving a white flag* i come in peace!

Y'all are gonna jump on me, i know that and i'm trying to prepare myself for it. i don't like getting jumped on, and so i usually just don't post when i disagree with the majority, so i'm not sure why i've picked tonight to post.

Maybe it's lack of chocolate....

i have seen other posters attacked more vehemently than this one, but to say that some are being nice by calling the original post stupid?? Really? Just because some of the more progressive, forward-thinking, PC among us think the post was stupid doesn't mean it was, period. Many people will read and laugh and nod their head, knowing it is a ha-ha, not a bible. Then they'll read on and the smile will disappear quickly. Hopefully if they are new to the site they wont assume the entire site and the population who post here are all like some of the subsequent posts.

i was not offended by the post, but then again i don't make a habit of taking things personally, in general. i know the post wasn't about me. i recognize it was a ha-ha kinda thing. (old, but still...)

Yeah, i am like some of the things listed. But still, the post was not about me, and it was not about you, personally, either.

Why do we prefer calling posts stupid (or worse) rather than just ignore them or at least try to be courteous when we let the person posting know we don't agree?

It feels mean to me. Rude. And i'm sure that someone will respond with "well i found the post rude". So.....because it was rude, you have to be rude too?

Some tell me that i am unrealistic and naive. Maybe i am. Or maybe i'm overly-sensitive. OK, maybe that's it...i'm overly sensitive to what i feel is rudeness the same way others are overly-sensitive to what they feel is stupid? (often, i work out my thoughts while in the middle of typing stuff...it's how i process) But i just don't get why it's so easy to be mean & rude. And i'm not saying that every response has been mean. So if you weren't mean, then don't take this personally

i really do come from a "why can't we all just get along" place. i know that it's not possible, i know that we're all individuals with our own thoughts and feelings. And i know we all have equal right to post how we feel.

But dang....how about a little kindness?

One last thing.....about what i said in the beginning about getting jumped on? i don't think, for the most part, most posters mean to jump on others....but it does happen.

*hands out flowers to everyone who would like one*

[Corkey]

Thanks for the flowers, but perpetuating a stereotype is not something I find funny in the least. I however have not called anyone stupid, and we all don't see humor the same, hence know your audience.
It isn't up to those offended to put up with the offense, it is incumbent on the offender to not offend. Could it be funny...no it is perpetual garbage and juvenile at best. But hey I'm just your stereotypical guy right.

[betenoire]

Originally Posted by InfiniteFemme

I am going to make the assumption that Nerd is either young or perhaps based on their geographic location (Netherlands) might not have been afforded the intellectual environment so many of us had in this community, by our community. Again, I might be insulting Nerd this very moment with my very assumptions.

Naw, it's got nothing to do with the Netherlands. I have a good (online) friend who lives there and we talk politics a great deal. The Netherlands (although I am sure he is biased) comes off as a mecca of forward-thinking people.

Originally Posted by June

PS - Even the Canadian ones.

Especially the Canadian ones, jesus!

Originally Posted by ravfem

i have seen other posters attacked more vehemently than this one, but to say that some are being nice by calling the original post stupid?? Really? Just because some of the more progressive, forward-thinking, PC among us think the post was stupid doesn't mean it was, period.

No, the post really was stupid.

You are not your posts. You are not the jokes you tell. Neither is the OP. I did not call the poster stupid.

[The_Lady_Snow]

Originally Posted by ravfem

*waving a white flag* i come in peace!

Y'all are gonna jump on me, i know that and i'm trying to prepare myself for it. i don't like getting jumped on, and so i usually just don't post when i disagree with the majority, so i'm not sure why i've picked tonight to post.

Maybe it's lack of chocolate....

i have seen other posters attacked more vehemently than this one, but to say that some are being nice by calling the original post stupid?? Really? Just because some of the more progressive, forward-thinking, PC among us think the post was stupid doesn't mean it was, period. Many people will read and laugh and nod their head, knowing it is a ha-ha, not a bible. Then they'll read on and the smile will disappear quickly. Hopefully if they are new to the site they wont assume the entire site and the population who post here are all like some of the subsequent posts.

i was not offended by the post, but then again i don't make a habit of taking things personally, in general. i know the post wasn't about me. i recognize it was a ha-ha kinda thing. (old, but still...)

Yeah, i am like some of the things listed. But still, the post was not about me, and it was not about you, personally, either.

Why do we prefer calling posts stupid (or worse) rather than just ignore them or at least try to be courteous when we let the person posting know we don't agree?

It feels mean to me. Rude. And i'm sure that someone will respond with "well i found the post rude". So.....because it was rude, you have to be rude too?

Some tell me that i am unrealistic and naive. Maybe i am. Or maybe i'm overly-sensitive. OK, maybe that's it...i'm overly sensitive to what i feel is rudeness the same way others are overly-sensitive to what they feel is stupid? (often, i work out my thoughts while in the middle of typing stuff...it's how i process) But i just don't get why it's so easy to be mean & rude. And i'm not saying that every response has been mean. So if you weren't mean, then don't take this personally

i really do come from a "why can't we all just get along" place. i know that it's not possible, i know that we're all individuals with our own thoughts and feelings. And i know we all have equal right to post how we feel.

But dang....how about a little kindness?

One last thing.....about what i said in the beginning about getting jumped on? i don't think, for the most part, most posters mean to jump on others....but it does happen.

*hands out flowers to everyone who would like one*

I don't feel I was unkind and I don't feel I have to dismiss a sexist post, ha-haing about jokes that make femme's look like passive aggressive cunts is not my cuppa.

I hope that Nerds takes the time to read the link I left them. It's just not cool to come up into a thread and post rules about how huffy, tempermental, manipulative, passive aggressive femme's are and how the poor butch just sits there and nods like a circus monkey.

As for the jumping theory, I don't see it, I see it as people being not ok with posts and threads like this, that are demeaning.

[sweetfemme247]

well I find some of the rules kinda funny in a cute way, but I would never wish my partner to have rules or to think I am always right because i am wrong alot. hopefully we didnt scare nerds off by getting mad, I hope nerds will come and explain what he ment by it, before I judge or say anything. No one take what I said offensive I am stating my opinion.

[waxnrope]

Rav, thank you for having the courage to voice your thoughts here. After reading your post a couple of times, I had to admit there were areas within that I agree. I had to admit to myself a shocked snicker when I read the OP. Yet, I was appalled at the same time - for the post and for that snort. Sometimes it takes a while to rid all the vestiges of old thoughts and behaviors from oneself. Just when I believed it was gone, it popped up again. There is more work to be done. Sigh.

For me. I have to relate how upset that I get about racism. This, to me, is never funny. Not. At. All. If I believe in the interrelatedness of oppression and injustice, and I do, then my personal ethos tells me that I must be as disturbed, as outraged, by masculinist posturing as I am with a racist remark.

Now, I do not believe in either context one should ignore remarks such as that made by the OP. But I do believe that our approach, for learning sake, might be more conducive in such a manner that criticism would be heard. In this respect, I agree with you.

I am sn old dog, but still learn here. I have tough skin, but it can be penetrated. My imperfections remind me of my humanity. And I still have a lot of stuff to work on for myself. So, for me, then, what I've come to realize is to teach those who cross into those ugly spaces in a manner likely to be heard - just ad I have to be taught - and if they still don't get it, if they persist, then hell yes, bring on the posse and sharpen those teeth.

Thanking you again, Rav

[Chancie]

I do think that there are new members who haven't had a chance to think about the underlying assumptions that make these jokes funny, not to me, but to plenty of people.

I don't think it helps anyone learn or that it builds community to jump down that member's throat, but

Perhaps the OP is very young and hasn't had the opportunity to consider why it's dangerous to make broad sweeping statements about femmes and butches.

So this is her chance.

What makes these jokes funny?

At whose expense?

How does is make us feel good about our community?

[waxnrope]

PS. O do believe that responses to this OP have been remarkably restrained.

[Nat]

Reading the op makes me extremely aware of the luxurious comfort I enjoy by living so far removed from messages like this. This isn't a luxury, sadly, of everybody else in our community, and so these messages do sometimes land on our shores.

[SassyLeo]

Originally Posted by InfiniteFemme

There is no question in my mind the OP in it's entirety was offensive and sexist, among other descriptives. However...

I am going to make the assumption that Nerd is either young or perhaps based on their geographic location (Netherlands) might not have been afforded the intellectual environment so many of us had in this community, by our community. Again, I might be insulting Nerd this very moment with my very assumptions.

Personally, after reading each and every post -- I am feeling more positive, in that this has turned into an open ground for communication. If we give ass whoopin's and beat down a person, who perhaps just doesn't get it, because they don't have the same experiences as us. We might turn somebody away, who might make a difference in our community one day. I have been out for 30 years in this community, but there was a time, when I was just plain young and stupid and thankfully... I had older femmes and butches to sit down with me and have open conversations, without feeling shamed.

Just remember this... If it were not for the strength of the butches and femmes before us, where might we be? We have a responsibility to our younger generations and those coming out, to guide and educate, so they in turn can help another. Otherwise, where will we be in a hundred years?

Julie

THANK YOU JULIE

When I came into the BF community about 6/7 years ago... I had a bit to learn. Even though I grew up with Queer all around me, I did not have the "luxury" of the BF dynamic around me, so I joined several sites with the intent of learning and figuring my shit out.

I am so grateful to those who helped me, taught me, were generous enough to share knowledge and history with me. Yes, sometimes I got the snark, but I took it in stride, because it balanced out with the actual education I received.

I don't expect everyone to become an "educator" or have the patience to understand those who are still trying to figure it out... I am just glad some did (and hopefully still do)

Yes, I agree this kind of poll is sexist and heteronormative (2nding what many have said better before me) ...but sometimes I think we are really quick to lambaste someone...without first asking questions.

I should say this was much more calm than in the past - YAY progress!-

[ravfem]

i was telling a friend about this thread and that for whatever reason, the use of the word "stupid" to describe the original post rubbed me the wrong way.

She pointed out something i hadn't thought about...

Although i've never been called stupid (that i can remember), i've always thought the word was just rude. She reminded me that just because i feel that way about the word doesn't mean everyone does. Like a lot of words/phrases, it means different things to different people, and is used in different ways.

So yeah, i think that's why it bothered me enough to post.

A ha-ha: When my son was small, i taught him that the word stupid was a bad word and shouldn't be used. He was playing with a friend one day and ran into the house to tattle, "mama! he said the "s" word!!"