Loving a Transman Isn't Easy

[CockyDude]

Let me say this; I judge no one. The heart wants what the heart wants & we all live our lives accordingly. I can only speak as an FTM, the feeling of trapped in the wrong body from birth, yada yada yada & all the baggage that comes with that. I also differ in the fact that until 12 months ago, I only dealt with straight women. I've lived my life as a straight man from the age of 19. And that includes my 2 marriages, the 2nd of which will be finalized by divorce this month. Other than this site, there are less than a handful of people outside of my family that know my situation. I've learned a lot from this site that I had no idea about because I never interacted in the LGBT community. So please forgive me if I say something offensive; I'm still a political work in progress.

[Ebon]

It's very disconcerting to know that so many lesbians get judged because they don't want to remain with their partner when they transition. Honestly how hard is it to understand that everyone has the right to be attracted to who they want to be attracted to? Thank you guys for sharing and I'm glad the lady in the article was able to work through everything and remain with her spouse. I need to have a little chat with her about using the word Tranny. I have friends that use and it makes my skin crawl every time. I wasn't sure if I could respond in the femme space so I was reluctant.

[Words]

Refreshingly honest, and I wish them nothing but the best.

Words

[EnderD_503]

This article was actually posted in the Trans News thread: http://www.butchfemmeplanet.com/foru...?t=2287&page=6

Personally, I found it really offensive. It's one thing to express your emotions over your partners transition. It's another thing to make these sorts of really transphobic statement. And another brilliant example where the existence of transphobia in the world is almost mocked. Where even pointing out transphobia is turned around on the trans person who points it out, as if they are in the wrong for pointing out oppressive language. If someone calls me a "rah rah tranny person" I'm going to be fucking offended. In fact, if anyone calls me a "tranny" I'm going to be fucking offended, I don't care who you are.

I'll post my reply from that thread here:

While I do agree that partners should be heard when they voice their concerns over a partner transitioning, there are ways to say it without reducing the word transphobia to something that trans people throw at people at random and framing trans people who call out transphobia when they see it as the "bad guys" in the situation.

I definitely do see transphobia in comments like these:

I looked for support but found very little because partners don’t generally talk about the difficulties we face in transition. Nobody wants to be the one to say, “This fucking hurts,” lest we be judged by the politically fuelled who would label us transphobic.

The Rah-Rah Tranny people on the sidelines say we’re not supposed to grieve the loss of our soulmate to a new gender. We should a) keep it quiet and support the transgender person or b) leave the relationship or c) both.
This, to me, has nothing to do with dealing with your partner's transition and voicing your feelings. I'm really tired of getting this sort of attitude from some LGB folks where other people are entitled to say all sorts of things about trans people, and when trans people respond or even mention the word transphobia, then they're "overreacting/making a big deal out of nothing," "not being sensitive," "being selfish" or trying to "guilt" people into agreeing with them on something.

It actually reminds me a lot of straight people's reactions when queer folks call them out on homophobia. Or people who make sexist comments when they're called out on their sexism. Yet somehow when it comes to trans people, some queer folks can't see how their behaviour mirrors that of those who, in turn, oppress them.

What does "Rah-Rah Tranny people" (seriously, if you're trans and identify as a "tranny", that's cool, but a cis person using the word "tranny" to refer to trans people in general is offensive, in the same way as a white person using the "N" word or a straight person calling gay men "fags") even mean? Apparently they are "politically fueled"? Again, what does that mean? Cause to me a "politically fueled" trans person is someone who fights for their own rights in a society where they don't have equal rights with the rest of the LGB spectrum. In the country the author is from, for example...

Like I said above, I have no problems with partners going through their process of coming to understand or accept their partner. But I feel the author made some comments that were transphobic (zomg, I must be a "rah rah tranny person"). I understand the frustration if the community she is a part of tells her that it's not acceptable to voice her feelings and grief over her partner's transition. I don't think that's good of them to do at all, and it's not something I would support. On the other hand, I don't think she should be expressing her frustrations while make transphobic remarks. It's like justifying homophobia because you had a bad altercation with a queer person, or sexism because you had an altercation with someone of a certain sex. Neither is acceptable in my eyes, and I don't think trans people should have to put up with anymore than anyone else should have to put up with discriminatory comments.

[julieisafemme]

Originally Posted by EnderD_503

This article was actually posted in the Trans News thread: http://www.butchfemmeplanet.com/foru...?t=2287&page=6

Personally, I found it really offensive. It's one thing to express your emotions over your partners transition. It's another thing to make these sorts of really transphobic statement. And another brilliant example where the existence of transphobia in the world is almost mocked. Where even pointing out transphobia is turned around on the trans person who points it out, as if they are in the wrong for pointing out oppressive language. If someone calls me a "rah rah tranny person" I'm going to be fucking offended. In fact, if anyone calls me a "tranny" I'm going to be fucking offended, I don't care who you are.

I'll post my reply from that thread here:

While I do agree that partners should be heard when they voice their concerns over a partner transitioning, there are ways to say it without reducing the word transphobia to something that trans people throw at people at random and framing trans people who call out transphobia when they see it as the "bad guys" in the situation.

I definitely do see transphobia in comments like these:





It actually reminds me a lot of straight people's reactions when queer folks call them out on homophobia. Or people who make sexist comments when they're called out on their sexism. Yet somehow when it comes to trans people, some queer folks can't see how their behaviour mirrors that of those who, in turn, oppress them.

What does "Rah-Rah Tranny people" (seriously, if you're trans and identify as a "tranny", that's cool, but a cis person using the word "tranny" to refer to trans people in general is offensive, in the same way as a white person using the "N" word or a straight person calling gay men "fags") even mean? Apparently they are "politically fueled"? Again, what does that mean? Cause to me a "politically fueled" trans person is someone who fights for their own rights in a society where they don't have equal rights with the rest of the LGB spectrum. In the country the author is from, for example...

Like I said above, I have no problems with partners going through their process of coming to understand or accept their partner. But I feel the author made some comments that were transphobic (zomg, I must be a "rah rah tranny person"). I understand the frustration if the community she is a part of tells her that it's not acceptable to voice her feelings and grief over her partner's transition. I don't think that's good of them to do at all, and it's not something I would support. On the other hand, I don't think she should be expressing her frustrations while make transphobic remarks. It's like justifying homophobia because you had a bad altercation with a queer person, or sexism because you had an altercation with someone of a certain sex. Neither is acceptable in my eyes, and I don't think trans people should have to put up with anymore than anyone else should have to put up with discriminatory comments.

Then call me transphobic. I would never use the word "tranny" but I may use words or concepts that could be offensive to other transmen or women because my partner is comfortable with them.

What her comments mean to me is that she is transitioning right alongside her partner and it is not always pretty or free of internalized transphobia, homophobia or other isms. That is why partners discuss these issues in groups with other partners. I have never once in all my discussions with partners felt transphobia from them. I have felt a lot of pain and confusion. Also happiness and love. Like I said it is a mixed bag and it may not always be palatable to everyone.

I am willing to give her the benefit of the doubt and I still appreciate her courage in expressing her feelings.

ETA Do you all remember that article in Oprah about the straight lady who fell in love with a transman? Now that article felt transphobic and really bugged me a lot. This one does not.

[EnderD_503]

Originally Posted by julieisafemme

Then call me transphobic. I would never use the word "tranny" but I may use words or concepts that could be offensive to other transmen or women because my partner is comfortable with them.

What her comments mean to me is that she is transitioning right alongside her partner and it is not always pretty or free of internalized transphobia, homophobia or other isms. That is why partners discuss these issues in groups with other partners. I have never once in all my discussions with partners felt transphobia from them. I have felt a lot of pain and confusion. Also happiness and love. Like I said it is a mixed bag and it may not always be palatable to everyone.

I am willing to give her the benefit of the doubt and I still appreciate her courage in expressing her feelings.

ETA Do you all remember that article in Oprah about the straight lady who fell in love with a transman? Now that article felt transphobic and really bugged me a lot. This one does not.

If a person is using slurs (aka "tranny," "he/she," "she male" etc.), incorrect pronouns, or are referring to trans people in general's bodies in ways that aren't sensitive to dysphoria, then that is transphobic. She does not get a free pass to throw around offensive language just because she is married to trans person.

If turn this around and made it about a previously heterosexual identified woman who begins dating a lesbian, or a person with internalized racism dating a person of colour, do they have just as much a right to express their difficulties with the situation by throwing around slurs? I should hope not.

And it's not just about slurs.

I looked for support but found very little because partners don’t generally talk about the difficulties we face in transition. Nobody wants to be the one to say, “This fucking hurts,” lest we be judged by the politically fuelled who would label us transphobic.

This is an argument thrown at trans people by cis people on a daily basis. When a trans person calls a cis person out on transphobia, they frequently throw it back in our faces as though we're doing it just to play the victim, to hurt them, or act as though we have to be more tolerant of their inability to accept us (which really fucking gets me. Why are trans people always expected to have to put up with this? Because our mere existence is too difficult and confusing for everybody else?), or we're taking things too seriously, or we're too sensitive. That statement is so loaded with all of the above.

[Cin]

Originally Posted by EnderD_503

On the other hand, I don't think she should be expressing her frustrations while make transphobic remarks. It's like justifying homophobia because you had a bad altercation with a queer person, or sexism because you had an altercation with someone of a certain sex. Neither is acceptable in my eyes, and I don't think trans people should have to put up with anymore than anyone else should have to put up with discriminatory comments.

I'm not in any position to tell someone that what they hear is or is not transphobic. I mean if that's how it feels for you then that is how it feels for you. I just want to say that in all fairness having a bad altercation with a queer person or having an altercation with someone of a certain sex isn't really the same thing as dealing with issues surrounding your partner's, husband's, wife's transition. I would imagine there would be much more depth to the feelings.

[EnderD_503]

Originally Posted by Miss Tick

I'm not in any position to tell someone that what they hear is or is not transphobic. I mean if that's how it feels for you then that is how it feels for you. I just want to say that in all fairness having a bad altercation with a queer person or having an altercation with someone of a certain sex isn't really the same thing as dealing with issues surrounding your partner's, husband's, wife's transition. I would imagine there would be much more depth to the feelings.

I really don't think it is, and I think that saying trans people are "different" than dealing with a queer person or a person of a certain sex is a major double standard.

[blush]

Originally Posted by EnderD_503

This article was actually posted in the Trans News thread: http://www.butchfemmeplanet.com/foru...?t=2287&page=6

Personally, I found it really offensive. It's one thing to express your emotions over your partners transition. It's another thing to make these sorts of really transphobic statement. And another brilliant example where the existence of transphobia in the world is almost mocked. Where even pointing out transphobia is turned around on the trans person who points it out, as if they are in the wrong for pointing out oppressive language. If someone calls me a "rah rah tranny person" I'm going to be fucking offended. In fact, if anyone calls me a "tranny" I'm going to be fucking offended, I don't care who you are.

I'll post my reply from that thread here:

While I do agree that partners should be heard when they voice their concerns over a partner transitioning, there are ways to say it without reducing the word transphobia to something that trans people throw at people at random and framing trans people who call out transphobia when they see it as the "bad guys" in the situation.

I definitely do see transphobia in comments like these:





It actually reminds me a lot of straight people's reactions when queer folks call them out on homophobia. Or people who make sexist comments when they're called out on their sexism. Yet somehow when it comes to trans people, some queer folks can't see how their behaviour mirrors that of those who, in turn, oppress them.

What does "Rah-Rah Tranny people" (seriously, if you're trans and identify as a "tranny", that's cool, but a cis person using the word "tranny" to refer to trans people in general is offensive, in the same way as a white person using the "N" word or a straight person calling gay men "fags") even mean? Apparently they are "politically fueled"? Again, what does that mean? Cause to me a "politically fueled" trans person is someone who fights for their own rights in a society where they don't have equal rights with the rest of the LGB spectrum. In the country the author is from, for example...

Like I said above, I have no problems with partners going through their process of coming to understand or accept their partner. But I feel the author made some comments that were transphobic (zomg, I must be a "rah rah tranny person"). I understand the frustration if the community she is a part of tells her that it's not acceptable to voice her feelings and grief over her partner's transition. I don't think that's good of them to do at all, and it's not something I would support. On the other hand, I don't think she should be expressing her frustrations while make transphobic remarks. It's like justifying homophobia because you had a bad altercation with a queer person, or sexism because you had an altercation with someone of a certain sex. Neither is acceptable in my eyes, and I don't think trans people should have to put up with anymore than anyone else should have to put up with discriminatory comments.

Ender, you make some excellent thinking points in this post. It's never up to the majority to decide what is offensive to the minority.

[Deborah]

I guess I have become confused as to the purpose of this thread...

[Vivacious1]

I respect the writer's honesty in her feelings! I understand what she is saying totally. I think it may be easy to get caught up on terminology that to some may be offensive, but to others it is not. I think that being with someone that is transitioning is quite difficult because what is so often not seen is that the couple is transitioning, not just the trans-person. It is a difficult lifestyle for many reasons, one which I believe can be worked out with the right communication etc, but for some it is impossible because the lack of understanding on either side.
This is something that I believe is discussed (probably at length) prior to the person transitioning but it is really reallllllly hard to know what you are really in for until the transition actually takes place. Beyond surgeries,testosterone, social issues etc, there are so many issues and adjustments that are required.

[Soon]

I have considered posting in this thread for awhile.

I just want to speak up for the femmes who loved their butches the way they were born.

I can't go further, emotionally, it is too hard.

Is there a space for women like me?

[SelfMadeMan]

Originally Posted by Soon

I have considered posting in this thread for awhile.

I just want to speak up for the femmes who loved their butches the way they were born.

I can't go further, emotionally, it is too hard.

Is there a space for women like me?

I can only speak for myself - but I think your space is here.

I just want to add, that my wife had a very hard time with my having top surgery 7 years ago. She loved and accepted me 100% the way I was. I had already transitioned when we met, and she only knew me as male, but she loved and appreciated my body the way it was, and was afraid she wouldn't be attracted to me after surgery. She also felt guilty she said, for not wanting me to change my body just because she liked it - when she knew it caused me so much pain. We went through a very emotional time. I am happy to report though, that she was 100% fine with it afterwards and loves my chest now. I know this isn't exactly the same as a woman falling in love with a Butch woman who decides later to transition - I can't imagine how hard that would be - I did ID as a Butch prior to transition, but was single when I transitioned. It would've been very difficult had I done it while with a partner, I'm sure.

[The_Lady_Snow]

Originally Posted by Soon

I have considered posting in this thread for awhile.

I just want to speak up for the femmes who loved their butches the way they were born.

I can't go further, emotionally, it is too hard.



Is there a space for women like me?

Soon, I used your last sentence and started a thread so you can have that space to vent if you want safely

LINKYLOO

[DMW]

Originally Posted by Vivacious1

I respect the writer's honesty in her feelings! I understand what she is saying totally. I think it may be easy to get caught up on terminology that to some may be offensive, but to others it is not. I think that being with someone that is transitioning is quite difficult because what is so often not seen is that the couple is transitioning, not just the trans-person. It is a difficult lifestyle for many reasons, one which I believe can be worked out with the right communication etc, but for some it is impossible because the lack of understanding on either side.
This is something that I believe is discussed (probably at length) prior to the person transitioning but it is really reallllllly hard to know what you are really in for until the transition actually takes place. Beyond surgeries,testosterone, social issues etc, there are so many issues and adjustments that are required.

I can totally concur with what this woman has said. I have seen it and lived it. I was successful with my relationship. But, she told me..before i came out to her that she didn't want to be with another transman. And i told her anyway. We met when i was a butch...this is just a quick note. But, i get it. She had been with a transman prior to me and it was really hard on her. She didn't want to go through the same experience.
We parted for reasons other than my being trans. It isn't easy for the women in these relationships. It really isn't. And unless the transman can be open and observe that she is also
going through it....and include her and reach out to her and not be so...self absorbed...she hasn't a chance in hell and neither does the relationship. I mean fortunately, for the two of us...
i was open to her and i shared a shit load. And she was patient and kind and understanding that...sometimes i needed space to read and learn and analyze myself.
But, i have seen some transmen get so self absorbed in their growth and change and the woman
just gets left out. It is sad. So, i feel for you. And, i feel for the other (significant others) that
have to struggle through that ...somewhat alone. I will leave this thread now. Cause i think this
is a special space for some of you. Feel free to send me a note.
Take care and good luck,
DMW

[BrutalDaddy]

Alrighty.

Soon, you said that wasn't what you were getting at. So I made a suggestion. If you want to get all bent out of shape over it, that's on you. Not me.

If I misread your statements in your original post then hey, that one is on me and I apologize for that. However, the attitude coming at me, from you, isn't on me. Good luck to you in your future.

Hope you have a great day/night.

Sorry For Derail Folks,
Brute.

[Sheridan]

I can understand her going through emotional and sexual conflicts because her partner was changing their body to who they really were but the whole "tranny people" statement was gross.

[Miss Scarlett]

I remember how I felt when my Beau told me that he is a Transman. It was about halfway into our first date and I was surprised but not unpleasantly. We were having such a wonderful time talking, laughing and getting to know each other that it just didn't matter at the time and it still doesn't matter.

I have many friends who happen to be Transgender but I've never dated a Transman before. He has many friends who happen to be lesbian but had never dated a lesbian, much less a Femme.

We've discussed, and I've been asked by friends, what that "makes" us as far as labels...straight, bi, etc. The answer to that question is that it makes him just him, me just me and us just us.

In other words, to us it just doesn't matter...period.

Let me add this...without divulging whether or not he has, is or is considering surgery, etc. (That's his private business. He is not a member of this site and I do not have his consent to share something so personal.) If he had, was or was considering transition, without hesitation I would support him 100%.

[flapdoodle]

I rarely write, almost never reply. I loved the simplicity in which you describe your relationship. That really is the bottom line. Enjoy it.

[*Anya*]

Originally Posted by Miss Scarlett

I remember how I felt when my Beau told me that he is a Transman. It was about halfway into our first date and I was surprised but not unpleasantly. We were having such a wonderful time talking, laughing and getting to know each other that it just didn't matter at the time and it still doesn't matter.

I have many friends who happen to be Transgender but I've never dated a Transman before. He has many friends who happen to be lesbian but had never dated a lesbian, much less a Femme.

We've discussed, and I've been asked by friends, what that "makes" us as far as labels...straight, bi, etc. The answer to that question is that it makes him just him, me just me and us just us.

In other words, to us it just doesn't matter...period.

Let me add this...without divulging whether or not he has, is or is considering surgery, etc. (That's his private business. He is not a member of this site and I do not have his consent to share something so personal.) If he had, was or was considering transition, without hesitation I would support him 100%.

I am truly happy for you that you found your beau.

This thread was quite a while ago but I think the difference is that the OP fell in love with a female-bodied/ identified butch and during their relationship, her lover came out as Trans.

The posts read as this was a surprise, shock and a sense of loss for her.

Your beau had knew this information about his transition and shared it with you during your first date. It was a wonderful thing that he already knew this when he began to date you and that he immediately shared it with you half-way through that first date.

I don't know what I personally would do if a year into my relationship my female-identified butch came out as trans and was going to go on T.

Even though I love her dearly, it would be very, very difficult for me.

Again, I am so happy for you. It is lovely to read of the joy you are feeling in your posts!

Best wishes, always. ❤️