|
10-21-2011, 09:37 AM | #1 |
Member
How Do You Identify?:
dorky queer femme bottom Preferred Pronoun?:
feminine ones Relationship Status:
single, dammit. Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: vancouver, bc
Posts: 240
Thanks: 157
Thanked 716 Times in 158 Posts
Rep Power: 8075872 |
Loving a Transman Isn't Easy
I posted this in the femme zone instead of the trans zone because it was written by a femme whose "perfect masculine woman" began transitioning to male four months after they married. I posted it because I've not read many transitioning stories written from a femme's perspective.
http://www.xtra.ca/public/Vancouver/...asy-10868.aspx
__________________
"If I'm in a room full of cookies, the cookies ain't got no damn chance." - Charles Barkley The meaning behind my screen name: |
10-21-2011, 09:43 AM | #2 |
MILLION $$$ PUSSY
How Do You Identify?:
Kinky, Raw, Perverted, Uber Queer Alpha Femme Preferred Pronoun?:
Iconic Ms. Relationship Status:
Keeper of 3, only one has the map to my freckles Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: ** La Reina del Sur**
Posts: 22,488
Thanks: 32,231
Thanked 80,119 Times in 15,678 Posts
Rep Power: 21474873 |
I'm gonna re read it a few times
The fact she uses the term "tranny people" is gross to me..:
__________________
"If you’re going to play these dirty games of ours, then you might as well indulge completely. It’s all about turning back into an animal and that’s the beauty of it. Place your guilt on the sidewalk and take a blow torch to it (guilt is usually worthless anyway). Be perverted, be filthy, do things that mannered people shouldn’t do. If you’re going to be gross then go for it and don’t wimp out."---Master Aiden |
The Following 12 Users Say Thank You to The_Lady_Snow For This Useful Post: | 1QuirkyKiwi, Andrea, atomiczombie, Blade, Corkey, Davis, Deborah, Jesse, LaneyDoll, Nat, SelfMadeMan, theoddz |
10-21-2011, 09:54 AM | #3 |
MILLION $$$ PUSSY
How Do You Identify?:
Kinky, Raw, Perverted, Uber Queer Alpha Femme Preferred Pronoun?:
Iconic Ms. Relationship Status:
Keeper of 3, only one has the map to my freckles Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: ** La Reina del Sur**
Posts: 22,488
Thanks: 32,231
Thanked 80,119 Times in 15,678 Posts
Rep Power: 21474873 |
Gonna read it again:/
I guess I'm confused as to why people get married without discussing things that both parties would want in the future, who the hell springs up hey I'm gonna transition 4 months into a marriage shouldn't this have been one of those dating discussions?
__________________
"If you’re going to play these dirty games of ours, then you might as well indulge completely. It’s all about turning back into an animal and that’s the beauty of it. Place your guilt on the sidewalk and take a blow torch to it (guilt is usually worthless anyway). Be perverted, be filthy, do things that mannered people shouldn’t do. If you’re going to be gross then go for it and don’t wimp out."---Master Aiden |
The Following 31 Users Say Thank You to The_Lady_Snow For This Useful Post: | 1QuirkyKiwi, Abigail Crabby, Amber2010, amiyesiam, Andrea, Apocalipstic, atomiczombie, Billy, Blade, CockyDude, Corkey, DapperButch, Deborah, Ebon, Gemme, imperfect_cupcake, Jesse, Julie, lettertodaddy, little_ms_sunshyne, Mike, Nat, Parker, Sachita, SelfMadeMan, SF_Boi, Stacy, starryeyes, Talon, theoddz, willow |
10-21-2011, 10:04 AM | #4 |
Timed Out
How Do You Identify?:
FTM-man Preferred Pronoun?:
He, Him Relationship Status:
What is today? Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Midwest
Posts: 239
Thanks: 151
Thanked 420 Times in 141 Posts
Rep Power: 0 |
My guess would be it did come up. SHE thought it would go away after marriage. HE thought she'd fully support him as his wife. My opinion only.
|
The Following User Says Thank You to CockyDude For This Useful Post: |
10-21-2011, 11:11 AM | #5 |
Member
How Do You Identify?:
Niizh manidoowag... Preferred Pronoun?:
I prefer amature nouns Relationship Status:
Single Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Texas
Posts: 840
Thanks: 370
Thanked 1,528 Times in 536 Posts
Rep Power: 15623422 |
The implication that this woman should support this decision fully using only the fact that they are married as the reason, IMHO, is pretty anitquated. It only serves to prove her point that..."We should a) keep it quiet and support the transgender person or b) leave the relationship or c) both."
IMHO, the shoulders that bare this burden, belong soley to her partner in this case. IMHO, the one who should be being supportive in this situation, is him. Something perhaps along the lines of...."I'm sorry I lied to you all this time baby. I know this is f#@king you up. I should have told you, but I know how you feel about this and I didn't want to lose you. So I lied. I thought if we we married, it would be harder for you to leave me. I love you and I was afraid. I want us to be together forever." Because seriously, how "supportive" do you think he might be if four months into the marriage, she sprang upon him the information that at birth, she had been a he? He lied to her. Bad decision. He married her, fully knowing what was about to come. She however, was not privey to that knowledge and had she been probably would have made a way different decision. It was wicked unfair. Her use of the words rha rha tranny people pretty much say it all. I don't give these two a very good chance. The foundation of their lives together was built on a lie. How can the home stand strong?
__________________
Noblesse oblige... |
The Following 24 Users Say Thank You to Mr.Nobody For This Useful Post: | *Anya*, 1QuirkyKiwi, Apocalipstic, Billy, Cin, clay, cuddlyfemme, deb0670, Ebon, G Snap!, Gemme, Greyson, Kelt, lettertodaddy, lusciouskiwi, Martina, midwest chick, Nat, Sachita, sara-bera, SelfMadeMan, Soon, Stacy, The_Lady_Snow |
10-21-2011, 12:57 PM | #6 |
Member
How Do You Identify?:
femme woman Preferred Pronoun?:
she Relationship Status:
solo Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Central Florida
Posts: 821
Thanks: 250
Thanked 1,944 Times in 584 Posts
Rep Power: 14065934 |
[QUOTE=Mr.Nobody;442878]
IMHO, the shoulders that bare this burden, belong soley to her partner in this case. IMHO, the one who should be being supportive in this situation, is him. Something perhaps along the lines of...."I'm sorry I lied to you all this time baby. I know this is f#@king you up. I should have told you, but I know how you feel about this and I didn't want to lose you. So I lied. I thought if we we married, it would be harder for you to leave me. I love you and I was afraid. I want us to be together forever." Substitute the phrase "I'm sorry I didn't tell you." in the quote above rather than "I'm sorry I lied", and you have exactly what my husband said to me lo these many years ago (1980) when he told me shortly after our second anniversary about his desire to transition Devastated does not even begins to describe how I felt. When I read the article, I understood down to the bone how this femme felt. Almost word for word she described my feelings at that time. Part of the devastation for me was that I KNEW (also down to the bone) that I would not leave him. We were one. To leave him would rip my own self apart. Therefore I would face incredible change in my own life. I was not and never have been transphobic. I have always understood the need of people to be who they are. But that does not mean I was ATTRACTED to transpeople sexually or that I sought a relationship with one. I had, and this femme has, the right to choose her attraction. That does not make her transphobic. Even the 'Tranny rah rah rah" thing does not mean she is transphobic. She was just mad. I experienced the same thing. All of a sudden, instead of being surrounded by women be they butch, femme, andro, whatever, all of a sudden there were a bunch of men sitting on her couch...and her beloved butch was one of them. My hubby waited a long time after he told me before he actually transitioned (for reasons I won't go in to here) but when he did, he jumped in with both feet. We went to doctors, therapists, group counseling, support groups, you name it. All about HIM. All about trans issues. Because we were activist people, we were activist in this as well. Almost every day there were guys sittiing in my living room talking about penises. I'm a lesbian dudes, penises (unlike "cock") do not attract me. Do not think I am exaggerating here. In those days at least, when presurgical transmen met, THE top of converation was penises. Was it possible to have one? Which doctor could do the best surgery? What kind of procedures were involved. How much did it cost, Could you get insurance to pay for it? ... and the big one ... Would it WORK? Yah "tranny blah blah blah" is pretty mild to describe the anger I felt at the way my beautiful life with my beautiful butch was being transformed. Where was I in all this? Who was I. Partners were treated as peripheral at best. After a year or two I understood why. During this time we met at least 50 couples. At the end of the two years, only 2 of these couples. no matter how long term their relatiopnships had been, were still together. Hubby and I were one of them. In all of which I was treated as a straight woman. It was hard. it was painful, and it was insulting to me. The isolation was complete. The only one I could talk to about how I felt was hubby. He was wonderful. HE knew I was not straight. I never had to cover those feelings up around him. On the other hand, it tore him up to see me suffer and to know that he was responsible for the pain I felt. So most times I did not tell him. So really folks, cut the femme some slack if she feels some anger. She has been through a lot. She has not had a lifetime to think about her feelings the way her husband has. I give her enormous credit that she is realizing that she loves her husband despite what he did to her and what has happened to her because of his choices. She has feelings. She is being honest about them, and she is trying like hell to keep her love intact through all of it. In my opinion, she ROCKS!!!! Finally, while we are talking about insulting terms. Think about the term SOFFA (Significant others, friends families and allies ot transfolk.) I hate this acronym. I will not post on any site or thread that uses this term. It makes my skin crawl. What is it that you do with a sofa? You SIT on it. In my experience that is pretty much what happens to the feelings of SO's of people who transition...they get sat on. They are expected to just forget how they feel and express only joy and support for their loved one. We do feel that joy and support. But we feel a lot of other feelings as well, and those feeling are pretty much not acceptable. While the person who transitions gets support the SO gets almost none. Again, she ROCKS!!! Smooches, Keri. |
The Following 30 Users Say Thank You to iamkeri1 For This Useful Post: | 1QuirkyKiwi, Apocalipstic, ArkansasPiscesGrrl, atomiczombie, Blade, BullDog, clay, DapperButch, deb0670, Deborah, DomnNC, dreadgeek, Ebon, Femmadian, Gemme, Greyson, julieisafemme, lusciouskiwi, Martina, Midnight, MsTinkerbelly, Nat, SecretAgentMa'am, SelfMadeMan, SoNotHer, Soon, Stacy, theoddz, willow, Words |
10-21-2011, 03:45 PM | #7 | |
Senior Member
How Do You Identify?:
Stone Femme Preferred Pronoun?:
her/she Relationship Status:
single Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 2,271
Thanks: 717
Thanked 2,452 Times in 1,270 Posts
Rep Power: 11496121 |
Quote:
|
|
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to cuddlyfemme For This Useful Post: |
10-21-2011, 10:18 AM | #8 |
Member
How Do You Identify?:
Queer Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 475
Thanks: 396
Thanked 921 Times in 225 Posts
Rep Power: 8450333 |
Much of what she wrote holds true for me as well, especially about being thrown back into the closet.
When Michael & I first got together, I had only been out as a lesbian about two years and I was loving every rainbow sticker covered minute of it. He wanted to be stealth at the time, and so to the outside world we were like any other hetero couple. All the rainbow stickers came off my car, my rainbow jewelry got stuffed into a box in my drawer, and it made me sad. However, I was so crazy in love with him, that it seemed like a small price to pay. Michael has since decided to be more out about being trans. He's begun doing panels and public speaking. His coming out has allowed me to come out of the closet with my sparkly queer flag flying. I am loving it! Invisibility sucks, and I love being able to proudly tell people that I am queer and I am married to a transsexual man. As far as some of the writer's issues with the body changes, I dealt with some of those as well. I won't even try to pretend that I was 100% cool with Michael's top surgery. I had serious inner turmoil about it. Not only was I sad that the body I loved would be changing, but I was also worried about the surgery itself, and the final outcome. I was also sad every time I got pleasure from Michael's body the way it was because it caused him so much pain. It was a whole ball of conflicting emotions, but the bottom line was that he needed it, period, and therefore I tried to be as supportive as I could and share his joy & excitement about the surgery. All the conflicts I had about the surgery disappeared when he woke up after the surgery and was fine. From that moment on, it did not matter what was before. He was happy, alive, and that is really all that mattered to me in the end. I now love snuggling up to his masculine, furry chest. I realized in the end that my fears stemmed more from the unknown the from the actual change itself. I have never felt judged for my feelings surrounding Michael's transition. He has always talked with me openly and honestly about them. He's always tried to understand and see things from my perspective. Choosing to stay with someone who is transitioning is hard. I feel there should never be any negative judgement of someone who chooses not to stay. It doesn't make them a bad person. A woman who loves women, no matter how masculine the women she dates are, doesn't necessarily mean she's going to want to be with a transsexual man, and in my opinion, that is 100% okay. If a woman does decide to stay then she's bound to have a whole roller coaster of emotions to deal with. I love Michael for the person he is. He is brave, gentle, funny, loving, and all I ever wanted in a partner. Loving him has always been easy, even if finding exactly where I fit into the GLBTQQIA community wasn't.
__________________
"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind."
~Dr. Suess http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/q...star_green.gif |
The Following 58 Users Say Thank You to Stacy For This Useful Post: | 1QuirkyKiwi, Abigail Crabby, amiyesiam, Apocalipstic, ArkansasPiscesGrrl, atomiczombie, Bard, Bella~Vita, Billy, blackboot, Blade, BullDog, Cin, clay, CockyDude, DapperButch, deb0670, Deborah, Ebon, EthanGaBoy, freckled1, funkyfemme, Gemme, Genesis, Greyson, Hack, intrigue_in916, Jett, julieisafemme, Julien, Kelt, Kent, LadyRieinAL, lettertodaddy, lusciouskiwi, macele, Midnight, midwest chick, miss entycing, Nat, pinkgeek, PinkieLee, pynkkameleon, Sachita, sanee66, ScandalAndy, Scrappy L'il Southpaw, SelfMadeMan, SF_Boi, sofimichi, Teddybear, tessie, theoddz, ValKyrie, Violette, willow, Words, Write14u |
10-21-2011, 10:59 AM | #9 | |
Senior Member
How Do You Identify?:
BBW. Unique femininity that does not encompass the western paradigm. Preferred Pronoun?:
Anything Respectful! Relationship Status:
Single, Happy, not Desparate or Looking, but Open to Possibilities... Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Europe and Aotearoa on a 5:2 ratio.
Posts: 2,308
Thanks: 11,003
Thanked 6,035 Times in 1,617 Posts
Rep Power: 21474851 |
Quote:
Thank you for that, Stacy! I had a 7 year relationship with a Butch who then transitioned 5 ½ years into the relationship – I had the inner turmoil as I’ve always been gay and wondered if I as being ‘too judgmental’. I fell in love with the person and yes! I enjoyed hys body equally. After surgery, hy started to change emotionally (a natural aspect I guess of the transition), and I was a little unsure of hys increased masculinity. I tried to be supportive, yet I didn’t feel comfortable – I felt bad for my feelings and tried to hide them as best I could. What was worse, was that I felt as though I was being prejudice towards hym for not being what I wanted. I did speak to a counsellor about it because I felt I had to do all that I could to make the relationship work. For me, the understanding that I was not just attracted to Butch women, but, women who still had a certain femininity about them – I’m not just talking about their breasts, I mean in their presence of who they are. I’m as gay as Christmas and proud of it! I have had a relationship with a man and I was almost a complete shambles in the relationship. My curiosity to ‘know’ what it was like to date a man got the better of me, lol! I have since had a date with another Trans-man and still I didn’t feel completely comfortable. I have been judged harshly for my feelings on this, yet, I can’t help how I feel. I’m entitled to feel the way I do without criticism or judgment, but, sadly, that isn’t always going to be the case. I would never criticise or judge another for their lifestyle or whom they are in love with, as I’m not living their life – what works for some doesn’t for others. All I hope for is that everyone finds their happiness regardless with who it is! My apologies if this doesn’t make much sense, I was trying to type whilst crying my eyes out – Stacy’s understanding felt like a release – thank you! I wish you an Michael every health and happiness in life!
__________________
What will make the difference to me is your strength of character and what's in your heart... |
|
The Following 29 Users Say Thank You to 1QuirkyKiwi For This Useful Post: |
10-21-2011, 11:07 AM | #10 |
MILLION $$$ PUSSY
How Do You Identify?:
Kinky, Raw, Perverted, Uber Queer Alpha Femme Preferred Pronoun?:
Iconic Ms. Relationship Status:
Keeper of 3, only one has the map to my freckles Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: ** La Reina del Sur**
Posts: 22,488
Thanks: 32,231
Thanked 80,119 Times in 15,678 Posts
Rep Power: 21474873 |
Thinkin'
When one is in the get to know one another stage doesn't the whole hey I want to transition? Convo had? For "me" it would cause the sex is pretty important plus life changing decisions one should know ahead of time.
*still marinating thoughts*
__________________
"If you’re going to play these dirty games of ours, then you might as well indulge completely. It’s all about turning back into an animal and that’s the beauty of it. Place your guilt on the sidewalk and take a blow torch to it (guilt is usually worthless anyway). Be perverted, be filthy, do things that mannered people shouldn’t do. If you’re going to be gross then go for it and don’t wimp out."---Master Aiden Last edited by The_Lady_Snow; 10-21-2011 at 11:12 AM. |
The Following 11 Users Say Thank You to The_Lady_Snow For This Useful Post: |
10-21-2011, 11:11 AM | #11 |
Member
How Do You Identify?:
Transsexual Man Preferred Pronoun?:
Male Relationship Status:
Married to The Woman of My Dreams <3 Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 802
Thanks: 796
Thanked 2,669 Times in 527 Posts
Rep Power: 18972344 |
Absolutely... if a person has ever had even a passing thought that they are trans, and have considered transition, then that needs to be communicated to anyone entering into a serious relationship with them. IMHO.
|
The Following 15 Users Say Thank You to SelfMadeMan For This Useful Post: | Apocalipstic, atomiczombie, Cin, clay, DapperButch, deb0670, Deborah, Ebon, Gemme, Greyson, lusciouskiwi, Stacy, Talon, willow, Zimmeh |
10-21-2011, 11:07 AM | #12 |
Member
How Do You Identify?:
Transsexual Man Preferred Pronoun?:
Male Relationship Status:
Married to The Woman of My Dreams <3 Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 802
Thanks: 796
Thanked 2,669 Times in 527 Posts
Rep Power: 18972344 |
I agree with Stacy 100% re: choosing not to stay with someone after transition - it doesn't make you a bad person, at all. I've seen this happen before, where the partner that chooses to leave, is somehow villainized for their decision. I should add, that I have seen transphobic behavior from someone leaving a relationship with a transperson, but that isn't usually the case, and simply choosing to leave isn't wrong.
|
The Following 19 Users Say Thank You to SelfMadeMan For This Useful Post: |
10-21-2011, 10:41 AM | #13 |
Member
How Do You Identify?:
Transsexual Man Preferred Pronoun?:
Male Relationship Status:
Married to The Woman of My Dreams <3 Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 802
Thanks: 796
Thanked 2,669 Times in 527 Posts
Rep Power: 18972344 |
|
10-21-2011, 10:55 AM | #14 |
Member
How Do You Identify?:
Transsexual Man Preferred Pronoun?:
Male Relationship Status:
Married to The Woman of My Dreams <3 Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 802
Thanks: 796
Thanked 2,669 Times in 527 Posts
Rep Power: 18972344 |
So, after reading and re-reading the article, I don't find it to be necessarily transphobic - I do have issues with the use of the word 'tranny', but still don't feel it was used in a spirit of transphobia as much as out of ignorance about the trans community. A lot of the things she talks about - the things that are hard to hear - are things she feared due to stereotypes, myths, etc... that she appears to be learning aren't the case. I thought the article was very heartfelt and honest and really does speak to a lot of the issues that SOs deal with when coming from a lesbian background. I can only imagine that it would be incredibly hard to transition from being a visible lesbian to being seen as any other straight woman because the person you love decides to transition genders. I don't know what that feels like personally - but I saw firsthand what it put my own wife through, and it was hard for her.
It's a difficult issue to talk about... it's easy, as a trans person, to feel defensive when these issues are brought up. But the fact is, you don't transition alone in a relationship, your partner has to transition too, so it's vitally important to be able to talk about these issues and let all voices be heard. Even when it hurts to hear it. All that being said, I want to add that I feel he was completely in the wrong for not communicating the fact that he was considering transition prior to the marriage... and there's no way he didn't know a mere 4 mos earlier that he was considering transition. She should have had all this information and been allowed to decide for herself whether to marry a transman or not. Last edited by SelfMadeMan; 10-21-2011 at 10:58 AM. |
The Following 32 Users Say Thank You to SelfMadeMan For This Useful Post: | 1QuirkyKiwi, amiyesiam, Apocalipstic, atomiczombie, blackboot, Blade, BullDog, Cin, clay, DapperButch, Deborah, Ebon, Elijah, freckled1, funkyfemme, Gemme, Greyson, Jett, julieisafemme, Kelt, Kent, LadyRieinAL, lusciouskiwi, Martina, midwest chick, Nat, pinkgeek, Soon, Stacy, theoddz, willow, Words |
10-21-2011, 04:39 PM | #15 | |
Member
How Do You Identify?:
dorky queer femme bottom Preferred Pronoun?:
feminine ones Relationship Status:
single, dammit. Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: vancouver, bc
Posts: 240
Thanks: 157
Thanked 716 Times in 158 Posts
Rep Power: 8075872 |
Quote:
__________________
"If I'm in a room full of cookies, the cookies ain't got no damn chance." - Charles Barkley The meaning behind my screen name: |
|
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to lettertodaddy For This Useful Post: |
10-21-2011, 09:44 PM | #16 |
Member
How Do You Identify?:
Female Relationship Status:
Together Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: In the sunshine
Posts: 598
Thanks: 815
Thanked 1,928 Times in 460 Posts
Rep Power: 19641162 |
I grew up in redneck, USA... when I hear the word "tranny" I flash back to shade tree mechanics talking about transmission repair. But yeah, I feel like the word carries some derogatory connotations to it for most folks, whether intended or not by the writer/speaker.
|
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Sassy For This Useful Post: |
10-21-2011, 10:00 AM | #17 | |
Timed Out
How Do You Identify?:
FTM-man Preferred Pronoun?:
He, Him Relationship Status:
What is today? Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Midwest
Posts: 239
Thanks: 151
Thanked 420 Times in 141 Posts
Rep Power: 0 |
Quote:
|
|
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to CockyDude For This Useful Post: |
10-21-2011, 10:03 AM | #18 |
Member
How Do You Identify?:
dorky queer femme bottom Preferred Pronoun?:
feminine ones Relationship Status:
single, dammit. Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: vancouver, bc
Posts: 240
Thanks: 157
Thanked 716 Times in 158 Posts
Rep Power: 8075872 |
Yes, some of her language is a problem, but the heartfelt sentiment she expressed shouldn't be discounted because of that, I don't think.
__________________
"If I'm in a room full of cookies, the cookies ain't got no damn chance." - Charles Barkley The meaning behind my screen name: |
10-21-2011, 10:08 AM | #19 |
Timed Out
How Do You Identify?:
FTM-man Preferred Pronoun?:
He, Him Relationship Status:
What is today? Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Midwest
Posts: 239
Thanks: 151
Thanked 420 Times in 141 Posts
Rep Power: 0 |
I by no means discount it. She's obviously hurt & confused. It's a difficult situation, for both of them. Lots of honest communication is necessary in ANY relationship, but moreso in this sort of relationship that already brings a lot if unknown variables to the table.
|
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to CockyDude For This Useful Post: |
10-21-2011, 10:30 AM | #20 |
MILLION $$$ PUSSY
How Do You Identify?:
Kinky, Raw, Perverted, Uber Queer Alpha Femme Preferred Pronoun?:
Iconic Ms. Relationship Status:
Keeper of 3, only one has the map to my freckles Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: ** La Reina del Sur**
Posts: 22,488
Thanks: 32,231
Thanked 80,119 Times in 15,678 Posts
Rep Power: 21474873 |
Words...
Her transphobic language discounts her, hence why I feel it's oogie..
__________________
"If you’re going to play these dirty games of ours, then you might as well indulge completely. It’s all about turning back into an animal and that’s the beauty of it. Place your guilt on the sidewalk and take a blow torch to it (guilt is usually worthless anyway). Be perverted, be filthy, do things that mannered people shouldn’t do. If you’re going to be gross then go for it and don’t wimp out."---Master Aiden |
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to The_Lady_Snow For This Useful Post: |
|
|