Men with boobs.

[Heart]

We live in a world where what it means to be a woman is so restricted and devalued and female masculinity is so under-represented, that a woman as sophisticated as Cynthia Nixon publicly calls her butch lover "a short man with boobs." Ugh.

[Gemme]

On the flip side, isn't it nice that someone so in the Hollywood scene is able to not only see but publicly acknowledge (and one would hope, appreciate) her partner's masculinity?

[Medusa]

Wow Heart, where did she do this? Im trying to Google but it isnt cooperating

[BullDog]

Short man with boobs? That sure as hell wouldn't be acknowledging my masculinity. Nixon referred to her financee as her so she doesn't appear to identity as man or male. WTF?

[Deborah]

Originally Posted by Medusa

Wow Heart, where did she do this? Im trying to Google but it isnt cooperating

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/0..._n_570645.html

here it is...hope you can open it.

[BullDog]

Originally Posted by Medusa

Wow Heart, where did she do this? Im trying to Google but it isnt cooperating

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/0..._n_570645.html

[Heart]

Gemme - but do you see my point? Why does her masculinity make her a man? Why not a masculine woman? Why do we persist in assuming that masculinity belongs to men? This is how male gets privileged over female constantly in queer communities.

Heart

[Medusa]

Im totally embarrassed now.

I was Googling "Cynthia Nixon man with boots"

[Jett]

You know I don't know what their relationship is like, but, it personally skivs me big time when people just throw butch and man together.

"date a butch? why not just date a man?"

"butches just want to be men"

"butches are just trying to emulate men"

"butches are men in female bodies"

It's missing and completely dismissing the most important part of the whole... qualities and traits not attributable to men that is the actual BIG difference between a butch and a man... and that's more than boobs.

I'd be really bothered by any statements like that from anyone let alone my gf.

IMO,
Metropolis

[Deborah]

Originally Posted by Medusa

Im totally embarrassed now.

I was Googling "Cynthia Nixon man with boots"

hahaha....he may wear boots also.

[Heart]

Dusa - it was in the NY Daily News as well. Nixon called her partner a butch, but described her as basically a "short man with boobs." Of course you can imagine the comments that follow, including those that ask, "why not just be with a real man?" This is one of the most heart-rending things to me -- that butch women aren't seen as "real" women or as "real" men. They are erased thru our own narrow and limited vision.

[Queerasfck]

As we all know how someone id's varies greatly. Maybe her partner wants that as her id, who knows? Maybe Nixon was just trying to be funny. The thing is just because someone is in the public eye it doesn't make them the spokesperson for all queers, but yet at the same time it does draw a lot of attention to us. For good or bad.

[Linus]

Originally Posted by Heart

We live in a world where what it means to be a woman is so restricted and devalued and female masculinity is so under-represented, that a woman as sophisticated as Cynthia Nixon publicly calls her butch lover "a short man with boobs." Ugh.

I think the more important question is: does it bother her butch? For all we know, this is a term of endearment between them.

[Heart]

Actually Linus, I don't think that's the most important question. I don't think each and every personal story and id necessarily takes precidence over cultural expressions of sexism, misogyny, and homophobia towards butch women. And that's how this reads to me. If nothing else, Nixon's language was careless and dismissive towards masculine women, whether her partner identifies as male or female, (and as far as I know, she ids as female), is irrelevant.

[Medusa]

Devil's Advocate for just a second:

Sometimes I wonder if people dont say things like this when they know that a larger audience will be reading it (read: straight audience) as a way to get people to understand that Butch is a different energy.

Now, to me, "Butch" isn't "Male" energy. In Jackhammer, it's just "Butch" energy but I do see how people who have never encountered "Butch" as anything other than a bad "Butch always equals flannel shirts, crew cuts, and militant feminism" stereotype can maybe understand it better. I hate that the understanding comes at a price though...and sometimes the understanding doesnt come at all.

Jack and I have sometimes explained to family or friends that her energy is not "Male" but "Tomboy" and they seem to get that she is still a woman when she is grunting over an engine, fixing something, or chewing Skoal (ICK!). *We* know that she isnt "just a Tomboy" but that she is a "Butch" but in order to further the understanding with whoever we are talking to, we have sometimes broken it down into a concept they can understand.

[Random]

Linus,

That's what I was thinking...

What if her partner is a short man with boobs?
I'm not in their relationship so I can't say..


I used to have a partner who self id'd as a white, redneck, southern conservitive man to her nearest and dearest..

To the rest of the world she presented as a native american catholic straight woman...

Bit of a difference...

[BullDog]

Judging by all the nasty replies on some of the websites Nixon's remarks definitely are not furthering any understanding of butch. Same oh same oh- wanna be man comments.

[betenoire]

Originally Posted by EzeeTiger

As we all know how someone id's varies greatly. Maybe her partner wants that as her id, who knows? Maybe Nixon was just trying to be funny

Originally Posted by Linus

I think the more important question is: does it bother her butch? For all we know, this is a term of endearment between them.

Originally Posted by Random

What if her partner is a short man with boobs?
I'm not in their relationship so I can say..

Thanks you three, you summed up what I was typing - before the phone rang. I got back from my phonecall to discover you'd beat me to it. Mwah!

[turasultana]

The full advocate article puts the comment in a little more context. They were saying how folks would see Christine as very different than the women they are used to seeing "miranda" with (carrie, samantha...). And Cynthia Nixon laughs and makes the short man w/ boobs comment.

Not saying right or wrong, but in context I think she was more saying how Christine might look from the outside if sitting at a table of Sex and the City characters.

[BullDog]

I wonder what the reaction would be if a public figure described their femme partner as basically a short/tall woman with boobs? How about a trans guy? Somehow it's ok to reduce butches to short men with boobs?