A friend of Dorothys- how important is community?

[ravfem]

i'm in the south too. Many years ago, there was a group of friends (lesbians & one TG guy) who would get together every Friday night for dinner & socialization. We advertised the group in the one & only hole-in-the-wall gay store, but never got new faces. As people moved away or whatever, the group just sort of vanished. i missed it tremendously, and still long for a group of like-minded people just to hang out with and do fun things.

Besides that though, there is no r/t community here. We have a gay bar, but really...i am so over it.

Many years ago i spent several weeks in Portland, OR. i asked to go to the "gay neighborhood" every day, just so i could sit and watch and smile. It was fascinating to me....all these people walking around, holding hands & just being. i LOVED it. The same when i got the opportunity to visit SF a few years ago. i went to the Castro daily just to people watch.

i go to Atlanta Pride every year, as much to be surrounded by 'my people' as anything else.

i love the thought of retiring in an exclusively women only community.

[Nat]

I really yearn for rt community and it's very depressing when I have gone too long without it. Thankfully I live near Austin.

I realized recently I would really like a good gay male friend. I actually do have some treasured gay male friends, but they have scattered to the four winds.

I think it would just be really comforting somehow. I guess I am feeling like gay male energy is missing from my life lately.

I did very much enjoy the recent Austin femme tea party - it was quite comforting being around a couple of smartypants positive femme energy - I hope some of it rubbed off on me

[Martina]

i have been spoiled for the last 25 years. Ann Arbor and now the Bay Area.

i would not mind being more out in the country in California. i would lose some community, but i wouldn't really be in a homophobic area unless i went WAY out in the country.

If i moved to someplace truly remote, i am sure i would miss queer community, but what i would miss more is the progressive atmosphere i have gotten used to. i don't want to hear a lot of conservative bullshit on a daily basis.

i like all kinds of people, but i don't want to work THAT hard to get over their politics and prejudices. It's tiring.

[Converse]

Originally Posted by Martina

i have been spoiled for the last 25 years. Ann Arbor and now the Bay Area.

i would not mind being more out in the country in California. i would lose some community, but i wouldn't really be in a homophobic area unless i went WAY out in the country.

If i moved to someplace truly remote, i am sure i would miss queer community, but what i would miss more is the progressive atmosphere i have gotten used to. i don't want to hear a lot of conservative bullshit on a daily basis.

i like all kinds of people, but i don't want to work THAT hard to get over their politics and prejudices. It's tiring.

Did you choose those locations because of community? Or at least was that a consideration, and if so, do you think that your willingness to move to somewhere where it isn’t so prevalent is because you are in a different head space now- a different phase in your life?

I’m trying to get my head around whether “community” is more important for us at certain life stages

[Martina]

i chose Ann Arbor because i was going to graduate school there.

i chose the Bay Area in part because of community (including leather), but also because it was a big city and near the ocean.

Yeah, as i get older, a really good grocery store becomes more important than a good gay bar.

Also, i am happier in my work. That is very enriching. i was bored back in Ann Arbor -- underemployed -- so my social and cultural life was way more important.

i do want a simpler life as i get older. Being near the Important People in my life is the first consideration. Job second. And then i just want peace and tranquility. Nature gives you that. The city -- it's possible, but you have to work at it.

[Rockinonahigh]

Converse
There is slim to un of a bf group of any kind hear,the bf'rs I know are all out of town or online,actualy being bf dosnt work well hear at all.In reality if ppl hear think u r a lesbian couple its ok but bf, not so much.I cant tell u how many times I or my date have gotten some off color coments about the bf way of life,such as ..its out of time or really old fashion or some such bs.I did just ignore such comments and move on with life.For a long time I was part of the glbt community hear way more than now,but over time ppl moved or just lost touch in the daily grind of time..plus there is now a huge age factor im 63 and the ppl who are anywhere close ot me in age have just disapered.

[Converse]

Originally Posted by Nat

I really yearn for rt community and it's very depressing when I have gone too long without it. Thankfully I live near Austin.

I realized recently I would really like a good gay male friend. I actually do have some treasured gay male friends, but they have scattered to the four winds.

I think it would just be really comforting somehow. I guess I am feeling like gay male energy is missing from my life lately.

I did very much enjoy the recent Austin femme tea party - it was quite comforting being around a couple of smartypants positive femme energy - I hope some of it rubbed off on me

I don’t know anything about smartypant femmes but I really get the gay boy thing, its an energy I miss too. When I first moved I was definitely needing some Butch-bonding (which was something I hadn’t ever really considered before), just a friend that knew where you were coming from- someone that you could nod to, and they knew what that nod meant. I have found that now- and it made all the difference.

In the same light, do you think its important for femmes to have close femme friends?

[Converse]

Originally Posted by ravfem

i'm in the south too. Many years ago, there was a group of friends (lesbians & one TG guy) who would get together every Friday night for dinner & socialization. We advertised the group in the one & only hole-in-the-wall gay store, but never got new faces. As people moved away or whatever, the group just sort of vanished. i missed it tremendously, and still long for a group of like-minded people just to hang out with and do fun things.

Besides that though, there is no r/t community here. We have a gay bar, but really...i am so over it.

Many years ago i spent several weeks in Portland, OR. i asked to go to the "gay neighborhood" every day, just so i could sit and watch and smile. It was fascinating to me....all these people walking around, holding hands & just being. i LOVED it. The same when i got the opportunity to visit SF a few years ago. i went to the Castro daily just to people watch.

i go to Atlanta Pride every year, as much to be surrounded by 'my people' as anything else.

i love the thought of retiring in an exclusively women only community.

rav- there is a place near where I grew up in Australia, called Amazon Acres- a women’s only land where all male children once they hit the age of 12years have to leave. On the gate leading to the compound is a giant penis with an axe through it.

Now I can tell you, for a packing Butch- that can make you feel mighty uncomfortable. I always moved along extremely fast when I was getting near that gate.

Do you think it is the friendships, or the environment of seeing "your people" just being- that you are looking for?

[ravfem]

Originally Posted by Converse

rav- there is a place near where I grew up in Australia, called Amazon Acres- a women’s only land where all male children once they hit the age of 12years have to leave. On the gate leading to the compound is a giant penis with an axe through it.

Now I can tell you, for a packing Butch- that can make you feel mighty uncomfortable. I always moved along extremely fast when I was getting near that gate.

Do you think it is the friendships, or the environment of seeing "your people" just being- that you are looking for?

ok, i don't think i want it that anti-male! i don't hate males at all! *thinking* in fact, now that i think about it...if there are "alternative" communities that aren't quite so exclusive as women-only...that would be an even nicer space for me, i think. i remember years ago Vi Johnson talking about a Kinky retirement village, but i don't believe that has transpired yet.

i've seen a few articles, websites & videos about women-only retirement communities, and i think it's the fellowship aspects, mainly. i've always loved the idea of commune living in general.

[Gemme]

It's only natural, of course, to seek like minded and bodied individuals as youngsters. It's built into our intrinsic bits and pieces. Every animal is born with this primal urging. Similar company provides warmth on cold nights, shelter from the storm, a higher likelihood of obtaining enough food and safety in numbers.

For me, no matter my age and status in life, that will not change. I am a very social creature and, though I may not go out and party like crazy all of the time, I need personal interaction with voices that come from OUTside of my head.

I've lived in areas of high and low tolerance and acceptance of our community. I feel stifled...smothered even...when I am not able to freely communication, face to face, with other members. It's more than validation (although that can be important) and acceptance (also important); it's an invisible hug that keeps my mental meter running right. It's the communal sigh after a large meal and the weight of breath caught when a group sees and shares something beautiful and brilliant together.

I don't need specific words or actions from members of our community. I just need them to exist and exist near me, where I can see them, feel them, hear them at will.

[Gayla]

I came out in an area with almost no gay community at all, then I moved to the "big city" that seemed like a gay mecca to me. In reality, the community was only slightly larger but much more active so it seemed to me, based on my reference points, as this huge thing. I was very involved on many different levels for a very long time. Almost every night of the week I was at some meeting or function or event. Weekends revolved around the groups I was a member of and bars where I hung out. This went on for more then 15 years.

I remember how we often talked about what it would be like to live in a place with a thriving community and how much fun we had visiting Austin, San Francisco, Seattle, etc. Even though we had a lot, it was always a little disappointing to go home.

Seven years ago, I left that town and moved to the Seattle area. I can count on one hand the number of times I've stepped foot in a queer bar since I moved here. The majority of my socializing is done with straight people I know from work. I have never been to Seattle Pride.

I don't know if it's my age or the fact that I just got so burned out but I'm really enjoying my lack of community involvement right now. That may change at some point, and I'm grateful that I have such an amazing community so close by, but these days I'm not really feeling the need for much more then my easy chair, laptop and the TV remote.

[Converse]

Originally Posted by gayla

I came out in an area with almost no gay community at all, then I moved to the "big city" that seemed like a gay mecca to me. In reality, the community was only slightly larger but much more active so it seemed to me, based on my reference points, as this huge thing. I was very involved on many different levels for a very long time. Almost every night of the week I was at some meeting or function or event. Weekends revolved around the groups I was a member of and bars where I hung out. This went on for more then 15 years.

I remember how we often talked about what it would be like to live in a place with a thriving community and how much fun we had visiting Austin, San Francisco, Seattle, etc. Even though we had a lot, it was always a little disappointing to go home.

Seven years ago, I left that town and moved to the Seattle area. I can count on one hand the number of times I've stepped foot in a queer bar since I moved here. The majority of my socializing is done with straight people I know from work. I have never been to Seattle Pride.

I don't know if it's my age or the fact that I just got so burned out but I'm really enjoying my lack of community involvement right now. That may change at some point, and I'm grateful that I have such an amazing community so close by, but these days I'm not really feeling the need for much more then my easy chair, laptop and the TV remote.

gayla,
I have also been in similar shoes (well boots cuz I don’t often wear shoes, perhaps that’s a different thread)- submerged so much in the community that after a time it can feel stifling. What is interesting as that if you step out and away, you are suddenly reminded that the whole world actually doesn’t think like you- I mean we know from an intellectual level, but if all of our interactions are with like- minded people it becomes easy to forget that you actually aren’t the “norm”.

As a side note, I also discovered that when straight women congregate that their key topic of conversation is how horrible men are

You say that you're socializing, by choice, is now predominantly with straight people. Do you find an occasional hankering to spend time with people/persons who can see the world through similar eyes, can relate to your experiences, history? And if so, do you think that you have satisfied that need through sites like this, and hence haven’t felt the need to find it in R/T?

[Gemme]

Originally Posted by Converse

Gemme

I really enjoyed reading your post – it resonated with me. Thank you

I think one of the key differences that exists within this thread is that some are living in places where homophobia is so blatant that they are forced to be closeted or risk alienation and even physical harm as opposed to others where although they may not be in a location where there is a predominant “community” they can still find it if they wish and are able to live without compromise.

I think that is one of the areas that sites like this have helped. In locations where physical buildings don’t exist, the sites create a virtual community drop in centre, coffee shop, bar, etc, so that others within accessible proximity can be found. I think the success of these sites support the argument that community is important.

But I wonder if having these sites will over time, replace our need to relocate and cluster geographically. Do you think that the want to find like minded people who can provide “interaction with voices that come from OUTside” could be someday completely satisfied through on-line communities alone?

Thank you, Converse.

I agree. Many of our community members are unable to find and/or celebrate with like minded and bodied souls because of geographical locations and the prejudice that is rampant in many areas.

I think that many do, at this time, feed their need for interaction through the net and they are satisfied with that connection. That would not work for me, though. The problem I see with that is, in the process of expanding their horizons and reaching out to others via the internet, they are actually shrinking their personal social circle....their one to one interactions. I don't think that that is healthy, emotionally, mentally or psychologically.

Sure, there are some of us who do just fine with little to no interaction with people for a while, but over long periods of time I feel that could be detrimental. The swapping of internet communication for personal interaction is a soulless exchange and cannot leave a person untouched. Parts of their humanity would wither away over time, I feel.

[Gayla]

Originally Posted by Converse

You say that you're socializing, by choice, is now predominantly with straight people. Do you find an occasional hankering to spend time with people/persons who can see the world through similar eyes, can relate to your experiences, history? And if so, do you think that you have satisfied that need through sites like this, and hence haven’t felt the need to find it in R/T?

I guess I really don't see it as not relating to my experiences. Most of the people that I spend time with, whether queer or straight, have enough similar experiences and shared history on some level that I don't feel like an outsider. My life has changed a great deal and along with that how, and with whom, I spend my free time has changed. I enjoy spending time with people who understand my sense of humor, get the inside jokes and that I have a shared history with. They don't have to be queer to have all of those things.

The truth is, they do see the world through similar eyes and they can relate to my history and experiences because my history and experiences are much, much more then just being queer. Probably the most important thing I've learned over the years is that all these people that I used to see as being so different from me, really aren't.

I don't know if I'm really explaining this as well as I want. I don't feel a lot of separation in my life anymore. When I spend time with people in real life, I don't pretend to be anything other than what I am.

I'm fortunate to be in a position now where I don't have to get up every day and go to a "job" where I'm forced to interact with people that I may not like or get along with or that may not like me for no other reason than because I'm queer. I work with some really amazing people. I have really amazing clients. I have really amazing friends. Most are in more then one of those groups.

So it's not like I spend all day having to pretend to be someone else to the point that I want to go hang out with the queers at night just to relax and be myself.

[Converse]

Originally Posted by Gemme

It's only natural, of course, to seek like minded and bodied individuals as youngsters. It's built into our intrinsic bits and pieces. Every animal is born with this primal urging. Similar company provides warmth on cold nights, shelter from the storm, a higher likelihood of obtaining enough food and safety in numbers.

For me, no matter my age and status in life, that will not change. I am a very social creature and, though I may not go out and party like crazy all of the time, I need personal interaction with voices that come from OUTside of my head.

I've lived in areas of high and low tolerance and acceptance of our community. I feel stifled...smothered even...when I am not able to freely communication, face to face, with other members. It's more than validation (although that can be important) and acceptance (also important); it's an invisible hug that keeps my mental meter running right. It's the communal sigh after a large meal and the weight of breath caught when a group sees and shares something beautiful and brilliant together.

I don't need specific words or actions from members of our community. I just need them to exist and exist near me, where I can see them, feel them, hear them at will.

Gemme

I really enjoyed reading your post – it resonated with me. Thank you

I think one of the key differences that exists within this thread is that some are living in places where homophobia is so blatant that they are forced to be closeted or risk alienation and even physical harm as opposed to others where although they may not be in a location where there is a predominant “community” they can still find it if they wish and are able to live without compromise.

I think that is one of the areas that sites like this have helped. In locations where physical buildings don’t exist, the sites create a virtual community drop in centre, coffee shop, bar, etc, so that others within accessible proximity can be found. I think the success of these sites support the argument that community is important.

But I wonder if having these sites will over time, replace our need to relocate and cluster geographically. Do you think that the want to find like minded people who can provide “interaction with voices that come from OUTside” could be someday completely satisfied through on-line communities alone?