Men with boobs.

[Jack]

I wonder if either of them, or any of their friends, or aquantances, or associates, or family , or agents, access this site ? Or any BF site which might be currently discussing this issue.

I wonder what THEY would make of this thread?

I wonder , would THEY respond. Would THEY clarify ?

Would they defend, would they respond , Would they learn something ?

Would they even have to ?

Would it help ?

I would love it if they strolled in right now, sat on the couch with us all and took this to the next stage.

[Bit]

Originally Posted by Jack

I wonder if either of them, or any of their friends, or aquantances, or associates, or family , or agents, access this site ? Or any BF site which might be currently discussing this issue.

I wonder what THEY would make of this thread?

As far as I could tell, Jack, they don't actually identify as Butch and Femme, so they might not come here at all. But wouldn't it be interesting if they did come to the Planet?

[Jack]

Originally Posted by Bit

As far as I could tell, Jack, they don't actually identify as Butch and Femme, so they might not come here at all. But wouldn't it be interesting if they did come to the Planet?

Yes, it would be interesting and we would give them a warm and friendly welcome !

[SuperFemme]

I'm still struggling to understand how the comment values men over women.

Is it the order? That she said "short man" before "boobs"? Because I don't think short men in general are a hot commodity. Look at Tom Cruise and how he wears shoe lifts and is all picky about his height being depicted.

I'm not being snarky, I am really just trying to understand how the mere mention of man in the same breathe as woman values man and devalues woman.

Can somebody walk me through it?

[BullDog]

Originally Posted by SuperFemme

I'm still struggling to understand how the comment values men over women.

Is it the order? That she said "short man" before "boobs"? Because I don't think short men in general are a hot commodity. Look at Tom Cruise and how he wears shoe lifts and is all picky about his height being depicted.

I'm not being snarky, I am really just trying to understand how the mere mention of man in the same breathe as woman values man and devalues woman.

Can somebody walk me through it?

Masculine women are not men. No one that I know of wants to be reduced to body parts- boobs, vagina, etc.

Her partner refers to her as a woman in multiple instances. I don't know why people are trying to cast doubt on that.

Butches have been told all their lives they are wanna be men and ugly women.

[SuperFemme]

Originally Posted by BullDog

Masculine women are not men. No one that I know of wants to be reduced to body parts- boobs, vagina, etc.

Her partner refers to her as a woman in multiple instances. I don't know why people are trying to cast doubt on that.

Butches have been told all their lives they are wanna be men and ugly women.

I can see how that is hurtful.

I'm off to give it more thought.

[Bit]

Originally Posted by SuperFemme

I'm not being snarky, I am really just trying to understand how the mere mention of man in the same breathe as woman values man and devalues woman.

Can somebody walk me through it?

If I understand right, it's that the word "man" was used to describe a woman.

When people describe a woman who is not stereotypically feminine/beautiful as "a man" then the message that comes across is that the only proper way to be a woman is to be stereotypically feminine/beautiful--in other words, if you aren't clearly and easily labeled "feminine" you must be a man.

The problem is, that message leaves out all the other ways of being a woman, including being a Butch woman. You could say that it steals a lot of space from being a woman and labels it all "man." That message makes "man" worth more than "woman" and that's why it is misogynist.

Hope that helps!

[SuperFemme]

Originally Posted by Bit

If I understand right, it's that the word "man" was used to describe a woman.

When people describe a woman who is not stereotypically feminine/beautiful as "a man" then the message that comes across is that the only proper way to be a woman is to be stereotypically feminine/beautiful--in other words, if you aren't clearly and easily labeled "feminine" you must be a man.

The problem is, that message leaves out all the other ways of being a woman, including being a Butch woman. You could say that it steals a lot of space from being a woman and labels it all "man." That message makes "man" worth more than "woman" and that's why it is misogynist.

Hope that helps!

Thanks, Kind of. I'm really trying to see it. I need to close my eyeballs and ponder it quietly I think.