The Femme Continuum: The "Highs" and "Lows" of Visibility

[SuperFemme]

Sorry, I didn't mean to derail. It was a bad example...regarding representation in mainstream media.

[Linus]

Originally Posted by SuperFemme

I can't think of any. Not that I don't sometimes want to label somebody, like say...Portia Derossi and Ellen. The thing is, they haven't mentioned it and though I'd love it, it's not so. The very FACT that I want to label them a cute Butch Femme couple is wrong. I think it comes from desperately wanting role models and people "like me" in my every day media.

Originally Posted by SuperFemme

Sorry, I didn't mean to derail. It was a bad example...regarding representation in mainstream media.

I don't know if it's that much of a derail (IMO) to want role models. MSM is where we tend to look. Why not celebrate in a femme who is a major figure (model, actor, politician, whatever)?

[Apocalipstic]

I have had people say I am just a straight woman and that I want a man.

I have been an out Lesbian since 1984. I strap on. I love pussy. I have a girlfriend.

What does it take to accepted as Femme?

To have no one jealous of me who just says shit?

What does Portia have to do?

[SuperFemme]

Originally Posted by Linus

I don't know if it's that much of a derail (IMO) to want role models. MSM is where we tend to look. Why not celebrate in a femme who is a major figure (model, actor, politician, whatever)?

I think it is normal to want role models. We have the unique opportunity of having a teenager that id's as a bisexual Femme. I find it fascinating that because she has been socialized in a Butch/Femme household that it is all normal for her. We pay special attention because the house is often filled with baby butches and femmes who are drawn here like moths to flame.

I wonder what I'd be like today had I been socialized in a Butch/Femme environment?

[BullDog]

I certainly understand June's point about wanting stories from us, but why is a feminine appearing woman's status (whether femme or not) as lesbian/queer more often than not in doubt? She's been dating women since 1999, been married to a woman since 2008. Is anyone wondering whether the more androgynous Ellen is really a lesbian?

Anyway, here's a recent interview Portia de Rossi did

http://www.advocate.com/article.aspx?id=106125

[The_Lady_Snow]

Originally Posted by BullDog

I certainly understand June's point about wanting stories from us, but why is a feminine appearing woman's status (whether femme or not) as lesbian/queer more often than not in doubt? She's been dating women since 1999, been married to a woman since 2008. Is anyone wondering whether the more androgynous Ellen is really a lesbian?

Anyway, here's a recent interview Portia de Rossi did

http://www.advocate.com/article.aspx?id=106125

The more feminine one appears, the more people put our value down.. I know for me sometimes my own peers will not recognize or ignore that I am femme unless I have a masculine appearing counterpart on my arm oh wait more like me on theirs..

Make sense?

[Nat]

Portia and Ellen are so adorable together and they really seem a bit private to me. I would absolutely hate to think that their relationship is anything but the real thing - I guess I do care on a personal level. I have just been really impressed with how they are managing. I think Ellen is really in a great position to "change hearts and minds" of mainstream America and I think she's doing a great job. I guess I read them both as pretty genuine and I am grateful to them both for being willing to play the role they play in American culture.

I remember talking to an guy friend of mine about a huge crush I had on a butch back before I figured it out. He said - of course you like the butch ones -that's because you're straight. What sucks is that I didn't understand myself or butches enough to question him.

A good female friend of mine - whom I flirted with regularly - would say often to me, "you just think you're a lesbian because you haven't tried it. I thought I was until I tried it, and then I knew I wasn't." I bought that line for a long time. The most damaging thing about buying that line is that I felt like I could not id as a lesbian unless I had fucked a woman. I didn't feel legitimately capable of saying that I knew. If I had been butch or if I had been more androgynous, I don't think I would have gotten that feedback and I think other lesbians would have at least recognized me during that very ling period of time that I questioned myself. So I think being invisible to others kinda led me back into the closet every time I tried to come out or even come out to myself. There are days when I severely wish I had those years back, but i should have been more confident in my knowledge of myself at a younger age.

I could have saved myself so much time if I hadn't sought so much advice from straight people.

[Pretty Woman]

Well all of that certainly got things going! And my goodnes folks are quick to jump on someone in here. But yes I do mean Portia and not Anne Heche. That's another whole crazy can of worms and not for here at all.
But in any case, the point is that sometimes I read that we want MSM role models and will take them in any way we can get them. I don't agree and prefer to think of regular femmes who live an out loud life on a daily basis as the heroines of this story. But then when we start to discuss one 'star' or another folks tend to throw in the 'who cares...I'd rather talk amongst ourselves'. And so would I but also in the context of the MSM because in many ways that defines us in spite of ourselves and what we say here. It's that deconstruction that interests me.

[Apocalipstic]

I guess I don't know what to say now.

I mean all we can do is say we are Femme. If someone wants to think we are just straight women then they are free to say whatever they want to say.

A year or so ago someone I considered a really good friend said I was just a straight woman and implied I cheated on Cynthia with men. I am still speechless and very hurt.

All we can do in response is just be ourselves.

I do think it is important to note that when Femmes say "oh so and so is not really Femme or even Queer" it demeans all of us. It's like the ultimate insult for someone Femmes don't like. The ultimate cut. Be who I want you to be or with who I want you to be with or you are a straight woman.

What answer is there for that?

[Linus]

Originally Posted by apocalipstic

I guess I don't know what to say now.

I mean all we can do is say we are Femme. If someone wants to think we are just straight women then they are free to say whatever they want to say.

A year or so ago someone I considered a really good friend said I was just a straight woman and implied I cheated on Cynthia with men. I am still speechless and very hurt.

All we can do in response is just be ourselves.

I do think it is important to note that when Femmes say "oh so and so is not really Femme or even Queer" it demeans all of us. It's like the ultimate insult for someone Femmes don't like. The ultimate cut. Be who I want you to be or with who I want you to be with or you are a straight woman.

What answer is there for that?

Educate them.

You will need to educate people since it's not in MSM and they won't understand otherwise if they are not clued in. It sucks to have to out yourself each time to educate them but unfortunately, it's a reality in society (it's a page from the trans community and sometimes, something we have to do; I haven't had to do this yet but have no qualms about doing it if the situation ever rises -- I'm already used to educating colleagues who should know but..).

[The_Lady_Snow]

Originally Posted by apocalipstic

I guess I don't know what to say now.

I mean all we can do is say we are Femme. If someone wants to think we are just straight women then they are free to say whatever they want to say.

A year or so ago someone I considered a really good friend said I was just a straight woman and implied I cheated on Cynthia with men. I am still speechless and very hurt.

All we can do in response is just be ourselves.

I do think it is important to note that when Femmes say "oh so and so is not really Femme or even Queer" it demeans all of us. It's like the ultimate insult for someone Femmes don't like. The ultimate cut. Be who I want you to be or with who I want you to be with or you are a straight woman.

What answer is there for that?

This is where I feel Femme's are more fierce when it comes to criticizing one another.. We tend to go for the jugular... I am not straight, straight looking, straight acting nothing. Yes I was married, I have been tagged as *breeder* and NONE of that can take away from what I am

That is Femme... combat boots and all.

[SuperFemme]

I hate hate hate the term Breeder. It makes me soooo angry, and it's just another way of othering.

[Apocalipstic]

Originally Posted by Linus

Educate them.

You will need to educate people since it's not in MSM and they won't understand otherwise if they are not clued in. It sucks to have to out yourself each time to educate them but unfortunately, it's a reality in society (it's a page from the trans community and sometimes, something we have to do; I haven't had to do this yet but have no qualms about doing it if the situation ever rises -- I'm already used to educating colleagues who should know but..).

Yes, I try to, but it only happens in the Butch Femme community, not out in the world. My STRAIGHT friends get it, even my regular Lesbian friends. It happens in this community as a slam.

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

This is where I feel Femme's are more fierce when it comes to criticizing one another.. We tend to go for the jugular... I am not straight, straight looking, straight acting nothing. Yes I was married, I have been tagged as *breeder* and NONE of that can take away from what I am

That is Femme... combat boots and all.

I wish we could as Femmes be more supportive of each other and if we are going to toss insults pick one other than so and so is straight!

That negates so much about who we are!

Fierce Femmes!