05-19-2010, 03:46 AM | #381 | |
Infamous Member
How Do You Identify?:
Woman Preferred Pronoun?:
HER - SHE Relationship Status:
Relating Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: CA & AZ I'm a Snowbird
Posts: 5,408
Thanks: 11,826
Thanked 10,830 Times in 3,200 Posts
Rep Power: 21474856 |
Quote:
I'm confused. It seems that there is a flow between both femme Zone & Butch Zone threads. Thinking that BDSM specific and Trans Zones have threads in which everyone is invited to ask questions or get info. Right? If someone comes into a thread that has a specific slant to it and is not that slant.... and just wants to mess with people, that's one thing. I certainly have taken in a lot with comments by femme's in this thread and MIB/Trans/IG folks. The thread did begin with a FIB slant, but, all of the differing thoughts from people no matter their ID has certainly been positive as far as I am concerned. Sure, some rough bumps, but, I think this has been a good conversation overall and respectful of some sensitive stuff. hell, i've benn smacked around on threads before. And sometimes deserved just that. Then again, I am a peace-maker type... role since birth! Yikes, my Mom used to tell me I should be in work in some diplomatic capacity.... Mamma Mia! Am I not understanding what is going on? Sorry, on pain meds. |
|
The Following User Says Thank You to AtLast For This Useful Post: |
05-19-2010, 06:21 AM | #382 | |
Senior Member
How Do You Identify?:
bigender Preferred Pronoun?:
whatevs Relationship Status:
in a relationship Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Tx
Posts: 3,535
Thanks: 11,042
Thanked 13,992 Times in 2,594 Posts
Rep Power: 21474854 |
Quote:
But you know what? I do think it's an issue worth examining. I'm not the only femme (after all) who has felt that there is a difference in tone regarding attitudes toward femmes within these conversations and I think this post is an example of that. The other femme who spoke to this in the other thread clearly stated that she agreed it's important to use the right pronouns. I also try my best to use the right pronouns unless there is no way of knowing (in which case I default to "she") or in the case that using the correct pronoun would closet (and therefore negate) me (which would only happen in relationships). The conversation of, "does it seem like femmes are being spoken of and about in a disrespectful way in conversations regarding butch pronouns, gender and identity?" is not the same conversation as, "do you think it's okay for butches to ask for respectful use of correct pronouns?" It has been stated that femmes mess up more than butches - and I'm even willing to believe that (though I would soooo love a way to quantify this). I also think some of the complaints about femmes have been from a respectful place. I do not think this post is from a respectful place and I don't think it is the lone post in this thread of the same ilk.
__________________
I'm a fountain of blood. In the shape of a girl. - Bjork What is to give light must endure burning. -Viktor Frankl
|
|
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Nat For This Useful Post: |
05-19-2010, 06:49 AM | #383 | |
Infamous Member
How Do You Identify?:
pushy broad Preferred Pronoun?:
she Relationship Status:
Follow your heart; it knows things your mind cannot explain. Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Southeast corner
Posts: 5,633
Thanks: 24,417
Thanked 25,407 Times in 4,661 Posts
Rep Power: 21474856 |
Quote:
__________________
I'm not tall enough to ride emotional roller coasters
|
|
05-19-2010, 09:37 AM | #384 |
Member
How Do You Identify?:
Femme Relationship Status:
rainbows! Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: NY
Posts: 466
Thanks: 303
Thanked 2,531 Times in 412 Posts
Rep Power: 12032609 |
You know what? I think we get fixated on pronouns as a way to avoid deeper issues. As if pronoun usage is the be-all and end-all of respect and liberation. That's kind of funny actually. And really, its such a privileged position when you think about it -- getting to determine what pronoun you use, getting to demand that everyone remember it, getting to be offended when someone gets it wrong, Asserting ourselves over pronouns on this site and others becomes a primary focus. Whatever.
Once the discussion in this thread turned to pronouns, I wasn't moved to participate and I haven't read all the other threads, though I did vote in Nat's poll. I voted that I sometimes default to "she" for butches. Why do I do that? Quite simply because everyone's individual, personal pronoun preference and their whole personal history and journey of how they got there does not matter to me as much, or more, than the underlying cultural, social assumptions, messages, and "isms" (read sexism) that are continually being played out in queer communities around such things as pronoun choice. So, I default to "she" as a minor form of resistence against that. (Please note: I said default. I did not say that I use "she" willfully against someone's stated preference.) There. I said it. That felt good. |
05-19-2010, 09:56 AM | #385 | |
Infamous Member
How Do You Identify?:
Dominant Stone Butch Daddy Preferred Pronoun?:
She Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: In A Healing Place
Posts: 5,371
Thanks: 18,160
Thanked 22,782 Times in 4,469 Posts
Rep Power: 21474856 |
Quote:
I have in my sig- She is not just a pronoun choice. Yes, it is the larger issues.
__________________
Love consists in this, that two solitudes protect and touch and greet each other. - Rainer Maria Rilke |
|
05-19-2010, 10:14 AM | #386 | |
Member
How Do You Identify?:
Hardcore bullheaded grown-ass Tomboy Preferred Pronoun?:
She Relationship Status:
she loves my shaggy hair Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: The backroom of a night cafe plotting world domination
Posts: 1,028
Thanks: 2,054
Thanked 3,299 Times in 568 Posts
Rep Power: 21474852 |
Quote:
Is it "super obnoxious" to have brought shit from here over there? Is that passive aggressive? Have you called that out? I mean truth, I personally don't really care that it was brought to another thread... I see that as cross posting. But I do know that had Bull gone over there (or Dylan or me etc.) and complained (even about the "bring shit over there") it probably would have been portrayed (by a few not ALL) "the men folk" trying to control "the women folk"... which I find to be pretty insulting and painting butches and trans as stupid self-important knuckle dragging clods. Not that I haven't seen that on occasion but I've seen that and more from all identities *shrugs* One last thing, a probably the most important reason I'm even replying to your post. I met Bulldog for the first time last week at a party... and Bull actually kept cracking me up, one of the reasons? She was smiling and laughing so damn much... made me wanna laugh too. Wasn't like one of those "not happy unless unhappy" people at all. Done derailing, be great to see this convo get back on track. Metro
__________________
.......... In the depth of winter I finally learned that there was in me an invincible summer. ~Albert Camus
|
|
05-19-2010, 10:20 AM | #387 |
Infamous Member
How Do You Identify?:
Dominant Stone Butch Daddy Preferred Pronoun?:
She Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: In A Healing Place
Posts: 5,371
Thanks: 18,160
Thanked 22,782 Times in 4,469 Posts
Rep Power: 21474856 |
LOL, Metro. I think you can see why I would suck at Poker. Every time I got a good card in Apples to Apples, I could barely contain my excitement. Here's me (different game):
__________________
Love consists in this, that two solitudes protect and touch and greet each other. - Rainer Maria Rilke |
05-19-2010, 10:39 AM | #388 |
Member
How Do You Identify?:
Hardcore bullheaded grown-ass Tomboy Preferred Pronoun?:
She Relationship Status:
she loves my shaggy hair Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: The backroom of a night cafe plotting world domination
Posts: 1,028
Thanks: 2,054
Thanked 3,299 Times in 568 Posts
Rep Power: 21474852 |
Oml... I'd definitely bring my earplugs... just in case you won...
__________________
.......... In the depth of winter I finally learned that there was in me an invincible summer. ~Albert Camus
|
05-19-2010, 11:11 AM | #389 |
MILLION $$$ PUSSY
How Do You Identify?:
Kinky, Raw, Perverted, Uber Queer Alpha Femme Preferred Pronoun?:
Iconic Ms. Relationship Status:
Keeper of 3, only one has the map to my freckles Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: ** La Reina del Sur**
Posts: 22,488
Thanks: 32,231
Thanked 80,118 Times in 15,678 Posts
Rep Power: 21474873 |
I have am on of the femme's who pointed out, politely what I have seen and have witnessed when it came down to femme's using pro nouns against butches and even trans people and anyone else that falls under this spectrum.
I did not say ALL femme's do it, just happens to be that sometimes we tend to be a lil more on the vicious side (not all) and for some unknown reason, gender is attacked. I don't know why this is, or why it is done, but it's clearly archived in sites we all belong to that it's calculated, mean and not done with good intent.. I also believe that we can make mistakes, and have, and we (not all) do our best to correct ourselves... I also feel and this is me coming from Snow space, that this thread has sparked, a lot of threads and conversations, be they offline, and online about gender, respect, dynamics, and boundaries. The Planet is new, and I *get* we are all sick and tired of saying the same thing over and over, but as I see it and I may be wrong, we are educating new people coming in, and even if we only reach one just one person, I think the long hours spent on posting, the frustrations, and the hard topics and discussions are worth having.... Thank you all for your patience for giving a damn,
__________________
"If you’re going to play these dirty games of ours, then you might as well indulge completely. It’s all about turning back into an animal and that’s the beauty of it. Place your guilt on the sidewalk and take a blow torch to it (guilt is usually worthless anyway). Be perverted, be filthy, do things that mannered people shouldn’t do. If you’re going to be gross then go for it and don’t wimp out."---Master Aiden |
05-19-2010, 11:15 AM | #390 | |
Is Grateful
How Do You Identify?:
Queer Femme Preferred Pronoun?:
She Relationship Status:
Engaged Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: The PDX
Posts: 1,526
Thanks: 846
Thanked 1,584 Times in 622 Posts
Rep Power: 856201 |
Quote:
__________________
Joy is the best makeup -Anne Lamott |
|
The Following User Says Thank You to SassyLeo For This Useful Post: |
05-19-2010, 11:23 AM | #391 |
Infamous Member
How Do You Identify?:
Dominant Stone Butch Daddy Preferred Pronoun?:
She Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: In A Healing Place
Posts: 5,371
Thanks: 18,160
Thanked 22,782 Times in 4,469 Posts
Rep Power: 21474856 |
Snowy thank you. Some of these issues I've been talking about online for 10 years. I do get frustrated at times when it seems we've made little ground or had a long discussion in a thread and lots of people don't seem to understand what the hell we are even talking about.
Time for me to go chill and do my work.
__________________
Love consists in this, that two solitudes protect and touch and greet each other. - Rainer Maria Rilke |
05-19-2010, 11:37 AM | #392 | |
Timed Out
How Do You Identify?:
Permanently Banned 10/24/2010 Preferred Pronoun?:
She. Relationship Status:
Married (one of 18,000) Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Atascadero, CA
Posts: 4,933
Thanks: 2,309
Thanked 7,109 Times in 2,327 Posts
Rep Power: 0 |
Quote:
My point was this: If somebody IS a male id'd butch, has asked to be called hy/he and now has the name Trenton instead of Tiffany? It IS emasculating (or whatever word you think fits here. if there is a better word, please tell me) for somebody to attack their chosen gender and use their given name as a way to be hurtful. Not because of the use of feminine pronouns Bulldog, but because of the complete and total disregard for that individual as a human being. Please help me understand why me stating this made you feel like you'd talk yourself blue in the face for nothing? Because you know me better than that. I hope. |
|
05-19-2010, 11:47 AM | #393 | |
Infamous Member
How Do You Identify?:
Dominant Stone Butch Daddy Preferred Pronoun?:
She Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: In A Healing Place
Posts: 5,371
Thanks: 18,160
Thanked 22,782 Times in 4,469 Posts
Rep Power: 21474856 |
Quote:
__________________
Love consists in this, that two solitudes protect and touch and greet each other. - Rainer Maria Rilke |
|
05-19-2010, 11:51 AM | #394 |
Timed Out
How Do You Identify?:
Permanently Banned 10/24/2010 Preferred Pronoun?:
She. Relationship Status:
Married (one of 18,000) Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Atascadero, CA
Posts: 4,933
Thanks: 2,309
Thanked 7,109 Times in 2,327 Posts
Rep Power: 0 |
emasculate: weaken somebody or something: to deprive somebody or something of effectiveness, spirit, or force
eta: it can also mean to castrate, which is not the intent with which I used it. |
05-19-2010, 12:01 PM | #395 | |
Member
How Do You Identify?:
Hardcore bullheaded grown-ass Tomboy Preferred Pronoun?:
She Relationship Status:
she loves my shaggy hair Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: The backroom of a night cafe plotting world domination
Posts: 1,028
Thanks: 2,054
Thanked 3,299 Times in 568 Posts
Rep Power: 21474852 |
Quote:
I agree the person using it probably is attempting to emasculate... but in that not only insulting male ID but female ID by using their pronoun as if it is an "emasculator". And to agree that's what it does... is to agree it's a feminizing pronoun. In a nutshell... saying "she" emasculates someone is saying butches who use it by choice are not masculine. Which is just another form of masculinity=male. Peace, Metro
__________________
.......... In the depth of winter I finally learned that there was in me an invincible summer. ~Albert Camus
|
|
05-19-2010, 12:02 PM | #396 | |
Member
How Do You Identify?:
Trans Preferred Pronoun?:
He Relationship Status:
Partnered Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: SouthTexas - On the Gulf
Posts: 694
Thanks: 210
Thanked 430 Times in 162 Posts
Rep Power: 505007 |
Quote:
So for example, If I expressed my desire to be refered to with the male pronounn he, and someone insisted on using the female pronoun she, I would think of them as rude and disrespectful , but I would not feel emasculated. And vice versa. If I prefer the female pronoun she but someone insisted on using he, I would also not feel emasculated. Rufus |
|
The Following User Says Thank You to Rufusboi For This Useful Post: |
05-19-2010, 12:05 PM | #397 |
Mentally Delicious
How Do You Identify?:
Queer High Femme, thank you very much Preferred Pronoun?:
Mme. Relationship Status:
Married to JD. Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 10,446
Thanks: 5,995
Thanked 42,872 Times in 7,835 Posts
Rep Power: 21474861 |
I know Im off topic again but this discussion is amazing and Im now wondering if anyone would find a thread about the binary of language and examples thereof interesting?
Not just in relation to gender but how the word "prissy" is seen in on way and the word "brusque" is seen in another.
__________________
. . . |
05-19-2010, 12:06 PM | #398 |
Timed Out
How Do You Identify?:
Permanently Banned 10/24/2010 Preferred Pronoun?:
She. Relationship Status:
Married (one of 18,000) Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Atascadero, CA
Posts: 4,933
Thanks: 2,309
Thanked 7,109 Times in 2,327 Posts
Rep Power: 0 |
I also think it emasculating to call a female id'd Butch he and him when they have not asked to be called that. BUT I will find another word to convey what I am saying. I think it goes a hell of a lot deeper than just being disrespectful, thoughtless and rude in either instance. Both are pointedly attacking gender.
I'm sorry for mis speaking. I apologize. |
The Following User Says Thank You to SuperFemme For This Useful Post: |
05-19-2010, 12:11 PM | #399 | |
Member
How Do You Identify?:
Trans Preferred Pronoun?:
He Relationship Status:
Partnered Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: SouthTexas - On the Gulf
Posts: 694
Thanks: 210
Thanked 430 Times in 162 Posts
Rep Power: 505007 |
Quote:
Rufus |
|
05-19-2010, 12:12 PM | #400 | |
Member
How Do You Identify?:
Trans Preferred Pronoun?:
He Relationship Status:
Partnered Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: SouthTexas - On the Gulf
Posts: 694
Thanks: 210
Thanked 430 Times in 162 Posts
Rep Power: 505007 |
Quote:
Rufus |
|
|
|