Ask a trans person!

[*Anya*]

Originally Posted by Esme nha Maire

>>snip<<

This has me pondering how I might feel if a very butch woman made a pass at me. If I found her attractive, I think I might feel a need to make it clear, as gently and politely as possible, that where butch becomes male is probably the point beyond which my emotions could not follow, except as friends. I would hope that they could understand why.

Hi and welcome!

I wonder if you would mind expanding on this a little? I don't understand exactly what you mean "if a very butch woman made a pass at me...where a butch becomes male".

Are you speaking about a FTM trans person that identifies as a male or a very butch woman that identifies as female and is a butch lesbian?

Thanks!

[Esme nha Maire]

Originally Posted by *Anya*

Hi and welcome!

I wonder if you would mind expanding on this a little? I don't understand exactly what you mean "if a very butch woman made a pass at me...where a butch becomes male".

Are you speaking about a FTM trans person that identifies as a male or a very butch women that identifies as female and is a butch lesbian?

Thanks!

Of course I wouldn't mind Anya. What I'm trying to get at is that I do not, at my current state of knowledge, know how I could tell a pre-transition FTM person from a non-FTM very butch woman, short of asking the individual before me whether they are FTM or not. Which would be rude. And given that I am not interested in intimate relationships with males, getting romantically involved with a pre-transition FTM would not be fair on either of us. So I'd prefer to avoid that latter possibility, and also avoid being rude, if at all possible. The only way I can see that I might possibly achieve both objectives is by intimating what it is that I want, rather than asking them if they are FTM or not. If there is a better way, I am all ears!

[AmazonDC]

Originally Posted by Esme nha Maire

Of course I wouldn't mind Anya. What I'm trying to get at is that I do not, at my current state of knowledge, know how I could tell a pre-transition FTM person from a non-FTM very butch woman, short of asking the individual before me whether they are FTM or not. Which would be rude. And given that I am not interested in intimate relationships with males, getting romantically involved with a pre-transition FTM would not be fair on either of us. So I'd prefer to avoid that latter possibility, and also avoid being rude, if at all possible. The only way I can see that I might possibly achieve both objectives is by intimating what it is that I want, rather than asking them if they are FTM or not. If there is a better way, I am all ears!

Hi there.. so I am a middlesexed genetically neither male or female.. I am a Queer Male identified person.. I have a genetic illness called CAH . I am genetically neither male or female although I am male in appearance I am female in body parts... The rainbow has many spectrums.. you asking if they are pre or post op is not rude its honest.. Honesty is always the best practice.. I am lucky enough to be with a woman who love the Me, I am.. Dont ever think asking such a question is rude.. that person I am quite sure has been asked the same question if not worse many times before.. I am questioned and asked things 24-7.lol

[Esme nha Maire]

Originally Posted by DaddyChrisCo

Hi there.. so I am a middlesexed genetically neither male or female.. I am a Queer Male identified person.. I have a genetic illness called CAH . I am genetically neither male or female although I am male in appearance I am female in body parts... The rainbow has many spectrums.. you asking if they are pre or post op is not rude its honest.. Honesty is always the best practice.. I am lucky enough to be with a woman who love the Me, I am.. Dont ever think asking such a question is rude.. that person I am quite sure has been asked the same question if not worse many times before.. I am questioned and asked things 24-7.lol

DaddyChrisCo - thank you for your response, it is appreciated, but my dilemma was more to do with what if I cannot tell if they are FTM? If they are FTM, then I need to politely decline the pass. If they are not, then we're all good. If they're FTM, then being pre or postop has no bearing on it - I would not be interested in dating them to avoid unecessary heartbreak for both of us. I'm very glad that you have a loving partner!

[AmazonDC]

Originally Posted by Esme nha Maire

DaddyChrisCo - thank you for your response, it is appreciated, but my dilemma was more to do with what if I cannot tell if they are FTM? If they are FTM, then I need to politely decline the pass. If they are not, then we're all good. If they're FTM, then being pre or postop has no bearing on it - I would not be interested in dating them to avoid unecessary heartbreak for both of us. I'm very glad that you have a loving partner!

All you can do is have a conversation with them.. simply ask if they are from and just tell them you mean no harm and let them know your preferance..honesty and being upfront is always the answer

[DapperButch]

Originally Posted by DaddyChrisCo

All you can do is have a conversation with them.. simply ask if they are from and just tell them you mean no harm and let them know your preferance..honesty and being upfront is always the answer

Yes.

Esme, nha Maire,

Yes, it is completely appropriate (and most likely appreciated) to ask those questions. In places where you find butch,femme, and trans identifying people, gender is talked about a lot. Part of that is because people are figuring out for themselves who they are as it relates to gender. On top of that is figuring out who you are attracted to! Therefore, it is common, very common, expected really, that soon in one would ask how the person identifies. You hear a lot more variance in butches than you do in femmes. I think that part of that is because one slides along the gender continuum with butches in the way that you don't (as often), with femmes.

It sounds like you are interested in a female identified butch. You may only be interested in a female identified and woman identified butch (who most likely identifies as a lesbian).

Too, I think it would be prudent to ask any butch presenting female bodied person if they have ever considered transitioning. If they say, yes they have, you might want to take pause. Like you said, no reason to start going down a road that leads to only heartbreak. I am with you.

Prior to transitioning I identified as a Stone Butch. Which, for me, meant no sexual contact with my chest or genitals in the bedroom. I also did not identify as a woman. I dated queer stone femmes. The queer stone femmes I dated didn't want to touch my chest or "junk" any more than I wanted them to. They didn't see themselves as a lesbian because they had no interest in interacting with a female chest or genitals. I didn't view myself as a lesbian because I wasn't a woman. So it all worked out!

Anyway, know what you want, and make sure that both the person's gender identity and their sexual preferences are a match for you. It is pretty common to find butch/femme folks involved in kink or BDSM.

Good luck!

[*Anya*]

Originally Posted by Esme nha Maire

DaddyChrisCo - thank you for your response, it is appreciated, but my dilemma was more to do with what if I cannot tell if they are FTM? If they are FTM, then I need to politely decline the pass. If they are not, then we're all good. If they're FTM, then being pre or postop has no bearing on it - I would not be interested in dating them to avoid unecessary heartbreak for both of us. I'm very glad that you have a loving partner!

I hope it is ok to piggyback off of your response.

I am very attracted to butch, female-identified, lesbian women. Sometimes, there is no way to know if someone is a male-identified trans person vs. a butch lesbian.

I look at it as a potential friendship.

If someone indicates interest in you and you have interest in them, that is the beginning.

I don't ever want to be afraid of a potential friendship with someone even if they might not be someone I would want to date on an intimate basis.

It sounds like you have some fear of getting involved and then finding out it is not something that you want to pursue.

I think that is the risk for all of us out in the world. Sometimes we are initially attracted to someone and then find out that there is no chemistry.

It is that way regardless of how someone identifies.

The only time in my own life that I felt unsafe or felt that something could or would happen that I did not have the power to stop was before I came out, with a biological male.

Not that it could never happen with a LGBTQ person, but I think most of us are very sensitive to the feelings of others and don't want to be where we are not wanted.

DaddyChrisCo is right, when you really need to know, ask kindly and with respect.

We can never go wrong with that approach.

[Esme nha Maire]

Anya, thank you. Probably me overthinking things, then.

[Martina]

I think it is rude to ask if you are just curious, but if it is a potential dating situation, you need to know.

[*Anya*]

Originally Posted by Esme nha Maire

Anya, thank you. Probably me overthinking things, then.

You are welcome!

I had another thought.

No matter who we are attracted to, people change over the years.

We have no way to know when someone may be unconsciously struggling with gender or identity issues.

As time goes on, the unconscious can become conscious.

It does not mean that the person was being dishonest, they may not have even been aware of their feelings.

There is no way to prepare for every eventuality.

When I was 16, I saw my first butch. I knew that she gave me butterflies in my stomach and that I felt extremely nervous when I was around her.

I married and had 2 children before my repressed lesbian feelings came to the surface and I was in touch with them consciously.

The end of my marriage had zero to do with this but what if it did?

All we can do is to be as honest as we can be with ourselves and pay attention to anything that gives us concern when we meet people to date.

Dating is anxiety-producing, regardless.

Sometimes, we just have to take a chance and go for it.

I have been single again since this past October. I just realized it has been 10 months and that I still have not felt ready to date yet.

I can give advice, maybe I should take it...