Weinstein

[tantalizingfemme]

Originally Posted by Esme nha Maire

Martina, my bad as I did lose sight of that somewhat in how I expressed what I said - but I was talking about entitlement and objectification, and Weinstein clearly felt entitled to others bodies without reference to them as human beings. He was impolite to such a degree (and on such a scale) that it was horrific. I'd argue that ultimately it was a failure of his manners, his lack of consideration for others, that caused things to go as they did. And as Dee has said, he got away with it through unfair economic power - the tool so often used by the powerful to abuse others.

Again, language, and the difficulties of expressing things both succinctly and accurately. :-(

I think what Weinstein did goes way beyond failure of manners and lack of consideration. What comes to mind when I hear that is someone not getting up on a crowded bus and giving up their seat to someone who needs it. He’s a vulture who used all types of power to abuse and rape And while I am not going to get into specifics as to the situations I have been inwhen I experienced the same things, I will say I didn’t give in to anything. I had no other choice at the time. Just like all women that are abused and raped, if I actually thought I had a choice at the time, it would never have happened.

[Esme nha Maire]

Originally Posted by tantalizingfemme

I think what Weinstein did goes way beyond failure of manners and lack of consideration. What comes to mind when I hear that is someone not getting up on a crowded bus and giving up their seat to someone who needs it. He’s a vulture who used all types of power to abuse and rape And while I am not going to get into specifics as to the situations I have been inwhen I experienced the same things, I will say I didn’t give in to anything. I had no other choice at the time. Just like all women that are abused and raped, if I actually thought I had a choice at the time, it would never have happened.

In the conventional usage of those terms, yes. Rape is an extreme example of lack of consideration for others. I didn't give into anything or have any other choice when I was raped either. He was simply so much stronger than me that I was powerless to fight back, unable to escape. What happened was what he wanted, whether I liked it or not, whether it hurt me or not.

It's this kind of thing with regard to language that I find so difficult. If one uses emotive language, it can be difficult to stick to logic - but in cases like Weinsteins, or Jimmy Savilles, if one uses less emotive language it can seem to some as if one has missed the point, or does not acknowledge the severity of the situation. I can assure you that I have neither missed the point nor do I fail to understand the severity of the crimes committed by such men. I simply chose to use unemotive language in order to prevent myself going into a foul-mouthed diatribe about them and what I would wish done to them in vengeance for their crimes.

[C0LLETTE]

I appreciate Anjelina et al but maybe it's time to look at women who work in factories and sweatshops and will likely never have a voice cause they are simply fodder to be replaced at will. Please tell me what can be done for them without starving their families.

[homoe]

Originally Posted by C0LLETTE

I appreciate Anjelina et al but maybe it's time to look at women who work in factories and sweatshops and will likely never have a voice cause they are simply fodder to be replaced at will. Please tell me what can be done for them without starving their families.

See, I think this is the perfect time for those women to come forward too! I think the chances of them being believed are GREATER now than ever before!

[homoe]

For sure this is a time that the old saying "Safety In Numbers" rings true! The more women that come forward the better off everyone else is!

[tantalizingfemme]

Originally Posted by homoe

For sure this is a time that the old saying "Safety In Numbers" rings true! The more women that come forward the better off everyone else is!

I agree with this. The unfortunate part is that the allegation has to become public for other women to know that there are others. And we all see what happens when the first person comes forward. One, they may very possibly remain the only one and two, they get ripped to shreds in the process. Scary stuff. Especially when your already vulnerable from the assault/rape.

[~ocean]

That is what I meant in my post when I noted to fight back ~ tell people what happened or if your lucky what was suggested... maybe so many woman would not have been hurt.. It surprises me that woman would choose to be quiet when others can b e assaulted. maybe we should put salt peter in men's shaving cream LOL or castrate men who have sexually assaulted woman . ( making light of a sensitive subject ) most men don't shave w/ shaving cream.lol

[C0LLETTE]

Originally Posted by homoe

See, I think this is the perfect time for those wom and with the risk of en to come forward too! I think the chances of them being believed are GREATER now than ever before!

All true, however this belief is why middle class American woman just don't get it....they can't break out of their cultural assurances that even if they suffer now, it will ultimately be all good...that just isn't a reality or belief for most ( poor ) women in this world. Their choices to fight back are infinitely harder than ours with a lot fewer guarantees and the risk of far greater, even deadly, consequences for themselves and their families (read that as children etc ).

I believe that the more dramatic and swift the revolution, the more poor Third World women will suffer and be slaughtered , disproportionately. Are we sure we can ask this of them just because we feel we are ready?