2020 Presidential Election

[Martina]

Just picking up on part of your post, dark_crystal. I think as you point out, there is privilege on both sides, the third party voters and, as you called them in a long ago post (I think) Democrats who are Republicans except for social justice issues.

I don't think Bernie is either-or. And while some of his followers may be up to no good -- the Beto baiting -- it's obviously possible to care about both inequality and social justice.

Rachel Maddow was horrible during the election. She completely misrepresented Bernie's politics and mocked his supporters. I am so tired of her.

I am looking forward to Mueller's actual report though, in part so she can stop obsessing. We know the SOB is guilty of obstruction. It will be a blessing to get that out there.

[dark_crystal]

Originally Posted by Martina

Just picking up on part of your post, dark_crystal. I think as you point out, there is privilege on both sides, the third party voters and, as you called them in a long ago post (I think) Democrats who are Republicans except for social justice issues.

I don't think Bernie is either-or. And while some of his followers may be up to no good -- the Beto baiting -- it's obviously possible to care about both inequality and social justice.

Rachel Maddow was horrible during the election. She completely misrepresented Bernie's politics and mocked his supporters. I am so tired of her.

I am looking forward to Mueller's actual report though, in part so she can stop obsessing. We know the SOB is guilty of obstruction. It will be a blessing to get that out there.

I first heard about Bernie on TRMS, because she was excited about the momentum he had at his rallies and she was indignant that the media were ignoring his movement.

I did listen to Chapo Traphouse today. The hosts are very cool and hip and edgy and ironic. They were having a really good time joking about "accusations of a coordinated attack on Beto" with Liz Breunig, during which they ironically and edgily attacked Beto. I think this was the 12/23 episode.

I think Beto had a big day yesterday, though? With his anti-The Wall video that got millions of views in five seconds or something?

The Wall is some super low-hanging fruit, post-midterms, and i wish liberals and progressives would ignore it.

It would be too easy for BOTH sides to make immigration the focus of 2020, which would be as big of a so-called distraction as social justice.

It's urgent to stop the detentions and restore the asylum process, create paths to citizenship, protect DREAMers, etc,

Many of my friends and family are not citizens, so these are issues that we can get motivated about: the WH has floated the idea of revoking green cards from non-citizens that use social services-- if my mother-in-law gets deported i will have to go with her.

But i don't think immigration affects the majority in the way that healthcare, employment, wages, and education do-- and a Democratic vs a Republican victory on immigration is not going to change their daily lives.

Letting Republicans trick us into making immigration the battleground is going to lower the stakes of the whole election. Most people's opinions about it are compassion- or ideology-based. It's all theoretical to most people. The only people really passionate about it are the immigrants themselves, their families, plus five zillion racists.

If those are the groups driving turnout, Trump wins.

[Martina]

I recall Rachel pretty much shaking with anger talking about Bernie supporters. I recall her saying in a really snarky way that they didn't understand the TPP. One time she was criticizing Bernie for some inconsistency as she saw it, and one of her own wonks fact checked her. I think she showed her ass re Bernie.

I haven't seen the Beto video. I think that Bernie's message re jobs, taxing the rich, Medicare for all, free college, and fighting corporate corruption of politics is the way to go. Clearly, depending on social justice issues alone didn't work. But Bernie is solid on those as well, IMO. Any candidate the Democrats field is likely to be.

[C0LLETTE]

That is clear-eyed realpolitik. Thank you.

Figure out how to get there. Strategy is often not the strongest attribute of the Left as they get pushed further and further out into the weeds by the Right.

You'd think this was obvious to the Left and to the Democrats, but it seems not. How hard can it be to figure that out? If you keep pounding out your point and stop being distracted, ppl will tune out all that other crap. Find your own Kelly Anne Conway ... just as skilled but not as morally corrupt.

I know that it's not as sweet to win through "impure means" ( and there are plenty of ethical/moral arguments about that ) but sometimes, "winning is all" and start from there.

[C0LLETTE]

oops, I was replying to dark-crystal's post.

[dark_crystal]

Originally Posted by Martina

I recall Rachel pretty much shaking with anger talking about Bernie supporters. I recall her saying in a really snarky way that they didn't understand the TPP. One time she was criticizing Bernie for some inconsistency as she saw it, and one of her own wonks fact checked her. I think she showed her ass re Bernie.

I haven't seen the Beto video. I think that Bernie's message re jobs, taxing the rich, Medicare for all, free college, and fighting corporate corruption of politics is the way to go. Clearly, depending on social justice issues alone didn't work. But Bernie is solid on those as well, IMO. Any candidate the Democrats field is likely to be.

Originally Posted by C0LLETTE

That is clear-eyed realpolitik. Thank you.

Figure out how to get there. Strategy is often not the strongest attribute of the Left as they get pushed further and further out into the weeds by the Right.

You'd think this was obvious to the Left and to the Democrats, but it seems not. How hard can it be to figure that out? If you keep pounding out your point and stop being distracted, ppl will tune out all that other crap. Find your own Kelly Anne Conway ... just as skilled but not as morally corrupt.

I know that it's not as sweet to win through "impure means" ( and there are plenty of ethical/moral arguments about that ) but sometimes, "winning is all" and start from there.

It seems like a unique opportunity to me because there should be no need to even engage Trump. We know his tricks, and he can't count on the disruptive novelty factor that he had last time, because he never stopped doing that. He never even stopped doing rallies. His campaign is already going on. It is completely our choice how and with whom to take the battle to him.

The democrats can set literally any agenda they choose. Making it about jobs, taxing the rich, Medicare for all, free college, and fighting corporate corruption, and refusing to talk about anything else would be easy and effective.

It will be the GOP who run on social issues. Even their economic platform usually has hate somewhere at the heart of it, via cutting taxes by punishing freeloaders, etc. Also they have to keep the religious right and the 2a people, and you need hate for gays and "thugs" to do that.

We can ignore it all, because their candidate is weak. He can't run on his record and his agenda holds no surprises. Every democrat is already on the record about all of it. Nobody needs to respond to him in any way. This is what was disappointing about Warren's DNA test.

[C0LLETTE]

Want to elect a winning Democratic President?

Find a good-looking white guy with a good-looking wife and a few good-looking kids.

Write all his speeches for him.Tell him to keep his mouth shut at all other times and his hands down his own pants. Shove your hand up his ass and make his mouth move when necessary. Fact is, none of the "presentables" are as smart and worthy as the "uglies ". So just go for a Ken doll and find a few ugly folks with progressive ideas to stand behind the curtain and do some telepathy and ventriloquism.

"Camelot" was the beginning of the Hollywood aspiration presidency...the handsome president leading his handsome people who all knew that under that mantle was a really good-guy who only wanted the best for them...and he made them feel proud cause he "looked good" on stage..

Has anyone considered drafting George Clooney recently? He sure looks good. That's likely good for 40% of the vote right there, even before his running shoes touch the starter-blocks. ( He can adopt some cute kids later.)

[kittygrrl]

Free College is a nice idea but unless we get a Democrat in the White House, win 61 seats in the Senate and sweep the House, not very likely..and forget Medicare for all..our country isn't ready for that much social change yet. Besides, Medicare is almost broke, Social Security without fixes will be in deep trouble by the mid 2020's. And we are looking at a 23-25 trillion dollar deficit in 2021. I'm not saying these things won't ever be possible but probably not in my lifetime or for those over 30. I wish these things were already in place but society (as a whole) isn't ready. Currently we have too much debt, baby boomer political power will have to be neutralized and societal norms have to change drastically before these things can be a possibility