Passing - Is it a Privilege?

[mirandabrave]

Thanks for an terrific post. I agree in part (leaders of our movement do sacrifice the rights of trans people in a misguided, pragmatic and even self-hating attempt to lay a foundation for political success) and disagree (the political is personal: as a femme lesbian, I don't enjoy a privilege to pass - rather, I can elect to endure any uneasy detente the price of which is self immolation. I suppose a trans person could simply suffer living the life of the opposite gender, the one the world assigned at birth. So could we femme lesbians do that too. Is that life privledge? And if it is all about a private act in the bedroom, what does it mean when we take our lover's hand in the street because we love her? No, I would refine the argument: Attractive (not fat) apparently-gender confirming queer people are less threatening to the established order. We can choose in those moments of tacit acceptance to champion our trans brothers and sisters or we can leave them behind. Of course, when any of us is left behind, so are we all.

[JustJo]

Originally Posted by mirandabrave

No, I would refine the argument: Attractive (not fat) apparently-gender confirming queer people are less threatening to the established order. We can choose in those moments of tacit acceptance to champion our trans brothers and sisters or we can leave them behind. Of course, when any of us is left behind, so are we all.

What I find interesting here is that with all of the argument on either side about how trans folks have been included or left behind, how femmes can pass or not, how racial appearance matters....we are all apparently willing to let such a messed up fat-phobic statement just slide on by.

Mirandavbrave...I don't know you, and I see that you're new to the site. So...I'll say this gently. Fat does not equal unattractive, or threatening. So...as you are championing your trans brothers and sisters so that they aren't left behind...you might want to think about including your brothers and sisters who are "fat" by your definition as well.

[Dylan]

Originally Posted by JustJo

What I find interesting here is that with all of the argument on either side about how trans folks have been included or left behind, how femmes can pass or not, how racial appearance matters....we are all apparently willing to let such a messed up fat-phobic statement just slide on by.

Mirandavbrave...I don't know you, and I see that you're new to the site. So...I'll say this gently. Fat does not equal unattractive, or threatening. So...as you are championing your trans brothers and sisters so that they aren't left behind...you might want to think about including your brothers and sisters who are "fat" by your definition as well.

I had a hard time understanding the entire post, but I read that part a different way. I read it as acknowledging fat phobia.


But Like I Said, I Had A Hard Time Understanding The Whole Post,
Dylan

[JustJo]

Originally Posted by Dylan

I had a hard time understanding the entire post, but I read that part a different way. I read it as acknowledging fat phobia.


But Like I Said, I Had A Hard Time Understanding The Whole Post,
Dylan

In the interests of fairness, I went back and attempted to read the statement as an acknowledgement of fat phobia. Unfortunately, I can't. I think it's the paranthetical nature of the "attractive (not fat)" comment. To me it reads as if there is an assumption that for a person to be attractive, then they must not be fat.

It would be different for me if the post read "slim, attractive, apparently-gender conforming"...but it doesn't.

Originally Posted by mirandabrave

No, I would refine the argument: Attractive (not fat) apparently-gender confirming queer people are less threatening to the established order. We can choose in those moments of tacit acceptance to champion our trans brothers and sisters or we can leave them behind. Of course, when any of us is left behind, so are we all.

[mirandabrave]

Thanks for taking this up. I absolutely meant this as an acknowledgement of fat phobia and I am sorry it did not come clearly across. I've been quite obese and slim (roughly half my life spent in each category) and I will tell you it is as tough being fat (maybe tougher) that being an out dyke. (I use "fat" assertively, as I do "dyke' in this context.) I really was trying to say - and the parens did not communicate it as I had intended - that it is being "socially" attractive (not the eye of the beholder but the eye of social conformity) provides a significant social advantage. People with these advantages have a special chance to act politically and for justice.

Thanks for the chance to clarify.

[mirandabrave]

Hope you see my explanation - I am new here and I am not sure my clarification posted in the right place. I was being fat positive - I meant to be, but can understand how it wasn't clear. Hope my explanatory post pops up on the thread. I am sorry that my 100% alignment with your feelings instead caused you consternation (apparently due to a badly placed parenthesis). But I appreciate the chance to explain.

[JustJo]

Originally Posted by mirandabrave

Hope you see my explanation - I am new here and I am not sure my clarification posted in the right place. I was being fat positive - I meant to be, but can understand how it wasn't clear. Hope my explanatory post pops up on the thread. I am sorry that my 100% alignment with your feelings instead caused you consternation (apparently due to a badly placed parenthesis). But I appreciate the chance to explain.

Thanks mirandabrave...I appreciate your coming back to clarify. I know that the written word can be easily misunderstood despite all of our best efforts on both ends of the communication.