Open Letter: Dear Femme

[Apocalipstic]

Originally Posted by apretty

does anyone else feel that her personal 'femme' is being abused (under-appreciated) when we're accused of being less-than supportive (or of blatant misogyny)?

Kind of yes, when all the conversation seems to be about being supportive, making sure everyone feels OK about themselves.

We co-dependently try to please everyone and maybe lose ourselves in the midst?

Is that what you mean?

[apretty]

Originally Posted by apocalipstic

Kind of yes, when all the conversation seems to be about being supportive, making sure everyone feels OK about themselves.

We co-dependently try to please everyone and maybe lose ourselves in the midst?

Is that what you mean?

i don't fancy myself co-dependent (tho i've read the books and can highly relate to lots of the markers of co-dependency. ha) but i do feel that, personally, my 'femme' is being wrongfully 'accused'--and i'm thinking on that, why i feel defensive/protective and why i can't necessarily hear the part about how 'femme' has played a role in creating a male-centric environment here/elsewhere. whatever that's about, i find myself resisting it/not wanting to take on that responsibility...

[Apocalipstic]

Originally Posted by apretty

i don't fancy myself co-dependent (tho i've read the books and can highly relate to lots of the markers of co-dependency. ha) but i do feel that, personally, my 'femme' is being wrongfully 'accused'--and i'm thinking on that, why i feel defensive/protective and why i can't necessarily hear the part about how 'femme' has played a role in creating a male-centric environment here/elsewhere. whatever that's about, i find myself resisting it/not wanting to take on that responsibility...

This resonates with me. I am pretty unclear on how we personally have been responsible for this. In my mind I see myself going in the other direction (against the grain) quite a bit. Pushing the use of Female pronouns (for those who prefer them) No "you are boy so you do this automatically and I am the girl so these are my duties" kind of thing. Saying "no Cynthia likes to be called Cynthia, not Sydney or Chris to make you feel more comfortable".

Do you think it was meant in general? or that each and every one of us has contributed? Or is it kind of like racism and we are all implicated? Its the system and there is no escape?

[Arwen]

Originally Posted by apocalipstic

This resonates with me. I am pretty unclear on how we personally have been responsible for this. In my mind I see myself going in the other direction (against the grain) quite a bit. Pushing the use of Female pronouns (for those who prefer them) No "you are boy so you do this automatically and I am the girl so these are my duties" kind of thing. Saying "no Cynthia likes to be called Cynthia, not Sydney or Chris to make you feel more comfortable".

Do you think it was meant in general? or that each and every one of us has contributed? Or is it kind of like racism and we are all implicated? Its the system and there is no escape?

Okay. I'm going to take a stab at this one.

I think "we" have been responsible for the inherent misogyny when "we" do, as a whole, enhance the masculine over the feminine. I put "we" in quotes because I want to make the distinction that I see this as a groupthink thing.

I think that there are those of us who do not do this within our own partnerships or even our own communities, but I wonder if "we" are able to speak our truth when confronted with this in other people's relationships.

(PLEASE NOTE that this example has utterly no bearing in fact and I am using two people whom I know and suspect will not be offended by their starring roles in this example. Again, I have NEVER witnessed this behaviour from them...are we clear?)

For instance, let's say I was at a party where Goofy and Blush were. I saw Goofy interrupt Blush while she was involved with some other femmes in some intense discussion. Goofy called out to Blush (let's assume he didn't even get up) and said, "Get me a beer."

Now let's further assume that Blush excused herself from the conversation to get Goofy his beer without so much as an exasperated look or a menacing glare.

IF I saw that and did not say anything to either one of them would I:

A: Be respecting the dynamic of their relationship?
B: Be complacently approving of the inherent misogyny?

And, while I'm on this subject, why would that scenario be wrong but a reverse of it (Blush interrupting Goofy) possibly not have the same impact?

To me, that would be participating in creating a male-centric environment.

[Apocalipstic]

Originally Posted by Arwen

Okay. I'm going to take a stab at this one.

I think "we" have been responsible for the inherent misogyny when "we" do, as a whole, enhance the masculine over the feminine. I put "we" in quotes because I want to make the distinction that I see this as a groupthink thing.

I think that there are those of us who do not do this within our own partnerships or even our own communities, but I wonder if "we" are able to speak our truth when confronted with this in other people's relationships.

(PLEASE NOTE that this example has utterly no bearing in fact and I am using two people whom I know and suspect will not be offended by their starring roles in this example. Again, I have NEVER witnessed this behavior from them...are we clear?)

For instance, let's say I was at a party where Goofy and Blush were. I saw Goofy interrupt Blush while she was involved with some other femmes in some intense discussion. Goofy called out to Blush (let's assume he didn't even get up) and said, "Get me a beer."

Now let's further assume that Blush excused herself from the conversation to get Goofy his beer without so much as an exasperated look or a menacing glare.

IF I saw that and did not say anything to either one of them would I:

A: Be respecting the dynamic of their relationship?
B: Be complacently approving of the inherent misogyny?

And, while I'm on this subject, why would that scenario be wrong but a reverse of it (Blush interrupting Goofy) possibly not have the same impact?

To me, that would be participating in creating a male-centric environment.

Ahhh, OK, that makes total sense. Thank you for explaining with an example. That always helps for me.

It has been difficult for me to speak out on anything really based on my own upbringing....ie. in the South we talk behind people's backs, not to their faces (as a general cultural thing, I know you are also Southern) and the fact that I can be pretty non-confrontational...related to a great number of things, I crave peaceful harmony.

However,
I understand that not saying anything provides tacit approval (implied approval), so I have in the past few years worked (and continue the battle) to speak my mind directly.

Sexism is like racism, every time we encounter this we need to say something.

On the other hand....
It's difficult with the BDSM dynamics in our community that get brought into non-BDSM settings to always know intent. It's a mine field really. It amazes me how often I find myself in just the situation you describe with a friend saying they are not "allowed" to do this or that. I know my eye bows hit the ceiling as I ask "what is this allowed word of which you speak?"

Thanks again, for putting it in terms I can get.

J

PS. Unless there was a sorry for interrupting and a PLEASE mentioned I think either scenario is rude.
PPS, but I do get that with the history sexism, it would be different. Goofy is Trans, right? would it be the same if Goofy were Butch? I think so.

[blush]

Originally Posted by apocalipstic

PPS, but I do get that with the history sexism, it would be different. Goofy is Trans, right? would it be the same if Goofy were Butch? I think so.

I agree with you. I think we are speaking about femme counterparts, whether they're butch or trans.

[Diva]

I love this thread.
I love the way the conversation flow is respectful and searching and sane.

Something e said to Kosmo spoke to me, and blush, too....right.....a butch can't answer these questions for us. But I would take this one step further and say NO ONE can answer these questions for me, BUT me. No one can answer them for blush EXCEPT blush...and so on and so forth.

And, while I love this thread...and all the wise words that are put out here ~ convo is a GOOD thing! ~ in the end, it is up to me.

It is up to me to be strong.
It is up to me not to be objectified.
It is up to me not to be a doormat.
It is up to me not to be invisible.
It is up to me not to whine about it.

I am a strong submissivewomanmomteacherdivathangetc. If I am in a relationship, I have no problem saying that I will be supportive of my partner, because I will have had the good sense to have found Someone who will also be supportive of me. (And blush, I know You have that! <smile> )

I hope this hasn't been an offensive post. We are ALL on this journey......for ourselves.....and yet.....in sisterhood.