The Mythical *Pass* for Differently-Abled People

[violaine]

[QUOTE=popcorninthesofa;153481]I've seen some folks that are usually sweethearts here, get timed out because they had a beef about another member, groups of members, or a topic. I think that special care should be given to these members via a private message in an understanding way, along with a warning, rather than a moderator only giving a warning once or twice in the forum.

some people are given private messages for reported posts/other issues via a PM 'warning'. i'm not sure how 'understanding' the message can be read, because i think, they might be kind of a form letter/general-type reminder. i've received a couple of them over the years, [whether or not i agreed with the 'warnings' i chose to not 'dispute' the issued warnings] because i have observed interactions over the years, and learned some interesting and valuable differences between NT-AT processing, and how it presents online in certain areas.

with regard to warning letters issued, 'fairness' for the NT-AT 'set up' - i.e., the big picture, can be rather complex! in my case, sure, the warning was right/true- in part! it takes two for me to even get to that point, and yes, i take responsibility for my own 'actions'. i know that i am not as savvy in some areas, nor do i have any interest in setting someone up to 'get caught' or 'fail'. the report button has only been hit by me once elsewhere.

so, whenever i hear things from offending person- claims: to be good friends with certain people, wishing me luck with any of my own 'reporting', and on and on- this is the kind of complicated arena that someone like me, on the spectrum, cannot NAVIGATE. by the time it comes for this AT to try and compose a thought out letter to any [and which??] moderator, situation is so layered/twisted and i am so worn out, that the only thing clear, and what very well may have been seen clearly- was indeed my fuck up, because i wrote very straightforwardly, in my way, to offending person.

a friend of mine said the only people who would understand what i'm trying to convey would be those who are on the spectrum. is this true? if so, then the majority sees me right now claiming 'victim' role? that is simply not my truth. opportunities to see a depth can get blown away when many other pieces/parts contributing to larger issues are there, but "if" people only remain in the black and white, or listen to people online who listen to other people online, and maintain 'oh, she's just playing a Victim again' how does this help for future issues involving NT-AT interactions and very different processing? i could imagine the people who are moderators turning grey overnight from handling such issues!

[SuperFemme]

I'm pretty sure that NOBODY on this site has EVER been timed out for disagreeing with a person or groups of people. If so, I'd like to see where.

I am also pretty sure that there is no form letter response on this site.

Interactions with mods/admins are personal and one on one conversations, not form letters. The Planet has done a great job of NOT giving time outs and bans as a rule.

Violane, I've never seen you in the role of a victim. Ever. I hear what you are saying about somebody being nasty and saying they are good friends with certain people and wishing you "luck". That is outright shitty behavior, and not tolerated here.

I think it's important to separate what happened at the dash site with the set up here. Because the two things are light years apart.

I also want to put out there that is anybody with a different ability is having an issue (be it with the mods or other members) that you can pm me. As the DA Ambassador here it is my job to make sure that the DA members are treated fairly. If anyone feels like that is NOT happening, please contact me and I can act as a mediator if necessary, or point you in the right direction.

[violaine]

[QUOTE=SuperFemme;153533]
Violane, I've never seen you in the role of a victim. Ever. I hear what you are saying about somebody being nasty and saying they are good friends with certain people and wishing you "luck". That is outright shitty behavior, and not tolerated here.

it happened already, and i'm not talking about the dash site, SuperFemme.

I think it's important to separate what happened at the dash site with the set up here. Because the two things are light years apart.

I also want to put out there that is anybody with a different ability is having an issue (be it with the mods or other members) that you can pm me. As the DA Ambassador here it is my job to make sure that the DA members are treated fairly. If anyone feels like that is NOT happening, please contact me and I can act as a mediator if necessary, or point you in the right direction.

with all due respect, SuperFemme- i cannot see that happening!

thank you for the offer - but part of what i was trying to communicate in this thread, and from what i've personally seen/experienced, makes it nearly comical to me, on one hand, and the very last thing i'd conceive of doing- contacting you for help.

i'm not writing this to read abrasively to you. there is absolutely no negative 'tone' attached. it is not good - it is not bad, it 'just is'. i'm not an island, and do appreciate sound help when i need it, and am far from being afraid to ask for it- but i would prefer that questions not even need to go through several other people or avenues.

just treated fairly- as everyone else on initial try.

best,
belle

[SuperFemme]

[quote=violaine;153667]

Originally Posted by SuperFemme

Violane, I've never seen you in the role of a victim. Ever. I hear what you are saying about somebody being nasty and saying they are good friends with certain people and wishing you "luck". That is outright shitty behavior, and not tolerated here.

it happened already, and i'm not talking about the dash site, SuperFemme.

I think it's important to separate what happened at the dash site with the set up here. Because the two things are light years apart.

I also want to put out there that is anybody with a different ability is having an issue (be it with the mods or other members) that you can pm me. As the DA Ambassador here it is my job to make sure that the DA members are treated fairly. If anyone feels like that is NOT happening, please contact me and I can act as a mediator if necessary, or point you in the right direction.

with all due respect, SuperFemme- i cannot see that happening!

thank you for the offer - but part of what i was trying to communicate in this thread, and from what i've personally seen/experienced, makes it nearly comical to me, on one hand, and the very last thing i'd conceive of doing- contacting you for help.

i'm not writing this to read abrasively to you. there is absolutely no negative 'tone' attached. it is not good - it is not bad, it 'just is'. i'm not an island, and do appreciate sound help when i need it, and am far from being afraid to ask for it- but i would prefer that questions not even need to go through several other people or avenues.

just treated fairly- as everyone else on initial try.

best,
belle

Violane,

I'm not offended in the least. I am but one tool available. I do hope that you go to the mods with anyone harassing you.

Nobody here deserves to be harassed in any medium, and I am sure that the help is there to address that if you choose to seek it.

[adorable]

[quote=violaine;153529]

Originally Posted by popcorninthesofa

I've seen some folks that are usually sweethearts here, get timed out because they had a beef about another member, groups of members, or a topic. I think that special care should be given to these members via a private message in an understanding way, along with a warning, rather than a moderator only giving a warning once or twice in the forum.

some people are given private messages for reported posts/other issues via a PM 'warning'. i'm not sure how 'understanding' the message can be read, because i think, they might be kind of a form letter/general-type reminder. i've received a couple of them over the years, [whether or not i agreed with the 'warnings' i chose to not 'dispute' the issued warnings] because i have observed interactions over the years, and learned some interesting and valuable differences between NT-AT processing, and how it presents online in certain areas.

with regard to warning letters issued, 'fairness' for the NT-AT 'set up' - i.e., the big picture, can be rather complex! in my case, sure, the warning was right/true- in part! it takes two for me to even get to that point, and yes, i take responsibility for my own 'actions'. i know that i am not as savvy in some areas, nor do i have any interest in setting someone up to 'get caught' or 'fail'. the report button has only been hit by me once elsewhere.

so, whenever i hear things from offending person- claims: to be good friends with certain people, wishing me luck with any of my own 'reporting', and on and on- this is the kind of complicated arena that someone like me, on the spectrum, cannot NAVIGATE. by the time it comes for this AT to try and compose a thought out letter to any [and which??] moderator, situation is so layered/twisted and i am so worn out, that the only thing clear, and what very well may have been seen clearly- was indeed my fuck up, because i wrote very straightforwardly, in my way, to offending person.

a friend of mine said the only people who would understand what i'm trying to convey would be those who are on the spectrum. is this true? if so, then the majority sees me right now claiming 'victim' role? that is simply not my truth. opportunities to see a depth can get blown away when many other pieces/parts contributing to larger issues are there, but "if" people only remain in the black and white, or listen to people online who listen to other people online, and maintain 'oh, she's just playing a Victim again' how does this help for future issues involving NT-AT interactions and very different processing? i could imagine the people who are moderators turning grey overnight from handling such issues!

I am not sure why but I don't have a ton of trouble understanding people who have Aspergers in general and I never have trouble reading you. I am not sure if it's because I know certain people have it so I read them differently because of it.

I hope that you and anyone else that has this could answer a some questions that I have been wondering since I read your post.

I wondered if online forums are more difficult for you personally to navigate more then face to face interactions?

And this may seem to be a dumb question, I know more about autism itself, but are there degrees of Aspergers like there is with autism? And since I am asking questions...is it in posting that you have the most trouble? I'm not sure if I worded that right. What I mean is do you tend to read your posts and think you are being clear, even when people may be saying that you are not being clear?

Do you ever find that people repeat themselves to you? But that you feel like you are clear on what they mean? Yet, they are not clear that you are understanding what they mean? That may have just confused ME. I hope that makes sense, I know what I'm trying to say I just may not have the right words.

Are there ways of communicating that help you? I know that my boifriend has dyslexia and that if I keep my sentences shorter and not bunch them together in a paragraph it makes it easier for hym to read. Is there a way to write to make anything easier if you have Aspergers?

I'm just wondering, thank you for posting!

[Ursy]

Originally Posted by adorable

I wondered if online forums are more difficult for you personally to navigate more then face to face interactions?

I actually find online forums much easier to negotiate as an Aspie. I think that this medium can often be well suited to people on the spectrum, because in many ways it levels the playing field. In physical interactions, I can have trouble with body language, reading facial expression, tone of voice and intent (it depends on the day as well). These things are absent from the online world, so aren't there to confuse me. In some ways the absence of these markers does make it more difficult (as it does for most of us, and I do glean some information from these things), but in other ways it makes it much easier.

And this may seem to be a dumb question, I know more about autism itself, but are there degrees of Aspergers like there is with autism? And since I am asking questions...is it in posting that you have the most trouble? I'm not sure if I worded that right. What I mean is do you tend to read your posts and think you are being clear, even when people may be saying that you are not being clear?

Sure there are degrees - it's all part of the autistic spectrum. Some will say that there is actually no difference between Asperger's and high functioning autism. (Others will argue that there are marked differences between the two) I don't really have much of an opinion either way, I think it's a matter of semantics.

Posting, for me, is actually much easier than verbal communication, because I can take my time, re-read things (both my stuff and the other person's), and don't get as confused (hopefully). I also have an auditory processing problem which makes processing verbal communication problematic, particularly if there is background noise. As for clarity, I think I come across best in text, definitely. But there is such huge variation between people on the spectrum, I can only speak about my own experience as an Aspie.

Do you ever find that people repeat themselves to you? But that you feel like you are clear on what they mean? Yet, they are not clear that you are understanding what they mean? That may have just confused ME. I hope that makes sense, I know what I'm trying to say I just may not have the right words.

Lol...yes, very occasionally. However, I've learned to mask a lot of my Aspieness so that most people are surprised to learn that I'm on the spectrum. I just come across as slightly quirky and "artistic", apparently. Oh, and sometimes standoffish - if feeling out of my element, which is often.

So to answer your question (because I don't think I really addressed it properly), it's more likely that people will carry on oblivious that I have NOT caught all of something, because I don't want to keep asking them to repeat themselves, and explain my differences all the time. I kinda feel like pointing out that I have these "differences" is asking for a pass... and I don't mean it that way, but that's how it's so often interpreted... so I avoid it.

edit: My reason would be more as a way of explaining *why* I'm not following the conversation, rather than asking for a pass, so that they don't interpret me as stupid or disinterested.

I really hate being interpreted as stupid, because I'm not - I'm in the 99.9th percentile on a couple of scales. It's just that honestly, you would never, ever know it. ESPECIALLY if you met me in real life. And on the flip side, my social intelligence can be pretty low on a few points. As I said before, it really depends on whether I'm having a good day or a bad day.

Hope that makes sense

[Soft*Silver]

Ijust want to throw my two cents in...

I have been a member of three BF sites to date.

This is the only site where I think the moderators are fair and consistent. On other sites, as someone said, you were basically blindsided by the decisions made. Here, there is a gentleness to the process. It actually diffuses the momentum when a moderator steps in and says "hey, lets calm it down"

I know all too well that I am easy to escalate. It comes from having PTSD. No need to go into why I have it but I do. So, I appreciate it when a neutral person can calmly intervene. It was not like this on the other two sites.

[AtLast]

Originally Posted by softness

Ijust want to throw my two cents in...

I have been a member of three BF sites to date.

This is the only site where I think the moderators are fair and consistent. On other sites, as someone said, you were basically blindsided by the decisions made. Here, there is a gentleness to the process. It actually diffuses the momentum when a moderator steps in and says "hey, lets calm it down"

I know all too well that I am easy to escalate. It comes from having PTSD. No need to go into why I have it but I do. So, I appreciate it when a neutral person can calmly intervene. It was not like this on the other two sites.

Yup.. I can see this with just awareness here about just about any form of DA. I hadn't thought too much about being someone with PTSD that led to agoraphobia and the posting on a website. I mainly have difficulty with this in real-time (startle response, mostly when confronted with anything that similar to my initial trauma trigger). It has been a long time since I recovered from the agoraphobia, but can still have certain situations come up in real-time that strike at past ways of dealing with anxiety and wanting to retreat to what is familiar and safe.! Especially when something happens that is like the early life trauma that happened. Yikes, all those years ago!!

I am thinking more about what you are saying here to gain some insight in terms of possible reactions stemming from posts on the site (for me). We do cover a lot of heavy stuff here and I know at times, my history does get kicked into focus when interacting on threads. Does for everyone.

I have always been so good at compartmentalizing to just survive and do what I need to do to make a living, be a parent, be a partner in the past, deal with the end of life for a partner, take care of a mentally disabled sibling and an aging parent. I can put up a field of coping mechanisms so that I can just do what just has to get done. I do this with chronic pain, too. And although, I really have been a recovering agoraphobic for a long time now, not wanting to slip backwards does come up. Hell, life is pretty stressful sometimes and we all have stuff we deal with.

Thanks, this post gives me pause. And that is a good thing as I know I can get upset around certain issues and begin to feel vulnerable. That is when I can really put on a mask that I bet seems impenetrable. Having to be the therapist and care-taker for so long was a way to remain guarded even when doing work (therapy for myself) around all of this.

Hummm… and one usually develops agoraphobia as a means to stay safe, stay in familiar surroundings. Stay clear of anything that can bring on shear panic or what happened in the first place to traumatize someone. it’s a way able to avoid the initial trauma and anything that is similar. So, guess it makes a lot of sense to feel this way.

This really is a great thread!! Lots of smart peeps!

[Soft*Silver]

I relate to what you said here. I know I can put on a mask too when I am feeling vulnerable, but I bet my mask is harsher than yours. Mine is a sullen, angry, snarling mask. I wasnt the caretaker. I was the scapegoat and so now when I am being blamed for things I didnt do or mean, I do what I did as a child, fight back for survival. My sister was the caretaker..and she wanted peace at any cost, so now she has ulcers. My brother was the Invisible Boy, always staying out of the way so he would never be the target. Problem was, it also meant he never felt loved or cared for. He committed suicide.

sometimes people dont realize what they are doing to others on this site. And nor should they. They arent therapists. But I love the saying someone had as their sig line..."be kind to everyone for they all deal with some kind of harship" (or something like that). I know I have been called on the carpet more than once for not giving people notice about some posts that were horrific to traumazied folks. I try to be much more sensitive about that now. After working in my field for so long, and after the aftermath of my brother's suicide, I have developed a rather calloused skin over things that would make most people gag. And, while I own I can be insensitive about this unknowingly, those who unknowingly trigger my PTSD should also know. But I usually dont tell it. Thats the mask> You have hurt me but I wont let you see the hurt because I firmly believe you will use it to hurt me more. I just wont allow that kind of vulnerability.

Good insight, ALH....


AtLastHome wrote:Thanks, this post gives me pause. And that is a good thing as I know I can get upset around certain issues and begin to feel vulnerable. That is when I can really put on a mask that I bet seems impenetrable. Having to be the therapist and care-taker for so long was a way to remain guarded even when doing work (therapy for myself) around all of this

[Ursy]

Originally Posted by SuperFemme

i want to reiterate AGAIN that giving a pass is not about erasing empathy and compassion. people don't seem to be getting that message....

a "pass" is a different set of rules for DA people and a complete lack of personal responsibility.

Oh yeah, I meant to say something about this because it keeps getting buried in other concepts (which are also really important, but what you said above is specifically what this thread is about).

I totally agree - I know I said in my first post that I give everybody passes, DA or not, but having thought about it - under that definition, they aren't passes.

While we seem to be talking all around the subject, but not specifically addressing it, I actually think that most of us are in agreement that being differently abled should not entitle anyone to a pass - i.e. being DA shouldn't absolve them from taking responsibility for their own behaviour (but only according to each person's capacity).

I think the crux of the issue is that there is a whole bunch of societal baggage that informs people what an appropriate response to DA ought to be.

A lot of it is well meaning, but in the end there is a huge grey area between giving a person compassion and understanding because of X, and not holding a person accountable because of X, and where A will see one, B sees the other.. . and it's not always clear-cut who is right.

I believe that this is where the conversation is falling down.