Dating a Trans Person (FTM)

Zora77 · 09-20-2010, 08:19 PM

Since I have ‘transitioned’ from a lesbian to a queer femme I have dated butches who fall on the more masculine side of the spectrum. Currently I am dating someone who did identify as butch when we met and recently started to openly acknowledge that he is transgendered, and feels like a male.

Although I don’t have a problem with this and try to be supportive, I have to acknowledge that this change affects me too as his partner. Some of the things I struggle with are: remembering to refer to him as ‘he’ (which is harder than it sounds because until recently ‘he’ referred to himself as ‘she’); dealing with raised eyebrows from friends when I refer to my ‘boyfriend’ (which from their perspective definitely requires an explanation) and deal with their lack of understanding; wondering what this means for my own identity (does that make me straight?), etc.

At this point he choses not to take T but since he does not pass and is struggling with this issue, I feel that the last word is not spoken on hormones. I don’t want to worry about problems that are that have not occurred and may never occur – but I still wonder about how the use of hormones affects the relationship (I have heard that T impacts a person’s demeanor, mood and could change in parts someone’s personality). On the flipside of that – if he sticks with his decision not to take T, I wonder how his struggle of always being perceived differently than he feels inside will affect him and our relationship.

I have been reading some the discussions by FTMs and transfolks on this site and am hugely grateful for being able to learn from the different perspectives (and would love to learn more from you!). In addition I think it would be great to hear from partners of FTMs, transgendered, transmasulin, etc. identified individuals about challenges to the relationship and how they were overcome. I’d appreciate everything you are willing to share. Thank you in advance!

P.S. Just to be clear - I do not only anticipate challenges and problems! In the big picture the concerns I expressed above are only a small piece of how I feel when I think of us.

Ursy · 09-20-2010, 08:41 PM

Hi Zora

I've been with my guy nearly 10 years now, he started on T about 5 years ago.

Don't worry, you will get used to using male pronouns - what really helped me was to join a Yahoo group for SOFFAs (Significant Others, Friends, Family and Allies) of FTMs where I could talk about it with others who were going through / had gone through the same thing in their relationships.

The identity thing - well, I loosely identify as pan-sexual / queer femme / whatever so it wasn't a big problem for me, but yes, it can be a sticking point for some, definitely.

As for changes to the relationship, there were many - it's a complex journey our guys go on and it's quite amazing how hormones can change a person! First of all, Kris is much much happier than he used to be. I know there is sometimes a worry about T making a guy more aggressive, but we didn't find this to be the case. He would get moody if his T shot schedule was off, but otherwise has become more emotionally stable. Personally, I think that if someone is not a naturally aggressive person, T won't make them aggressive.

I could write a tome about this so I'll stop now and give you a chance to read this post before it becomes too big!

Cheers,
Ursy

Isadora · 09-20-2010, 08:42 PM

The second love of my life, the person whom I walked with through his transition, the man who I adore, one of the few people I will actually listen to, the person I met 11 years ago never changed. There were no challenges over his transition. It was not so much a transition as a phoenix experience... he was always there...the essence was and is the same, the body transformed.

Not a moment of challenge around his transition, just love and acceptance. I still love him even though the bastard fed my addiction to country music and southern drawls.

Zora77 · 09-20-2010, 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ursy

Hi Zora

I've been with my guy nearly 10 years now, he started on T about 5 years ago.

Don't worry, you will get used to using male pronouns - what really helped me was to join a Yahoo group for SOFFAs (Significant Others, Friends, Family and Allies) of FTMs where I could talk about it with others who were going through / had gone through the same thing in their relationships.

The identity thing - well, I loosely identify as pan-sexual / queer femme / whatever so it wasn't a big problem for me, but yes, it can be a sticking point for some, definitely.

As for changes to the relationship, there were many - it's a complex journey our guys go on and it's quite amazing how hormones can change a person! First of all, Kris is much much happier than he used to be. I know there is sometimes a worry about T making a guy more aggressive, but we didn't find this to be the case. He would get moody if his T shot schedule was off, but otherwise has become more emotionally stable. Personally, I think that if someone is not a naturally aggressive person, T won't make them aggressive.

I could write a tome about this so I'll stop now and give you a chance to read this post before it becomes too big!

Cheers,
Ursy

Thank you Ursy for your encouraging words! It's all very fresh for me and I know I have a tendency to worry too much, so I'll try not to do that and just go with the flow. I'll definitely check out the Yahoo group! If you would not mind sharing, I'd be interested in what some of the changes where your relationship underwent as a result of his transition - in addition to making Kris a happier person which is great. Thanks again.

Z.

Ursy · 09-20-2010, 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zora77

Thank you Ursy for your encouraging words! It's all very fresh for me and I know I have a tendency to worry too much, so I'll try not to do that and just go with the flow. I'll definitely check out the Yahoo group! If you would not mind sharing, I'd be interested in what some of the changes where your relationship underwent as a result of his transition - in addition to making Kris a happier person which is great. Thanks again.

Z.

Sure! Well, first of all, I think Kris emotes quite a bit less. He's less likely to want to talk "relationship stuff" - it was just a subtle shift that happened over time. I have asked other guys who have been on T and many have found that their experience is similar.

Everyone is different though - for example, one of my FTM friends does NOT cry anymore. He sometimes wishes he could, just for some kind of tension release - but he can't.

I've thought about it at length and in some ways, yes - he is still the same person I fell in love with... but in other ways, he is different. You could put that down to other things as well though - it can be hard to separate the changes that are attributable to transition and those that aren't (for example, I have also changed over the years and am not the same person Kris fell in love with in the beginning).

Will think on it some more and get back to you

SFFemmePrincess · 09-20-2010, 10:55 PM

Hey Zora!

I have been with Logic for about a year and a half now. We met on another site like this one and I knew he was trans from the get go. But when we met, he wasn't yet out to his family, co-workers, or really anyone outside of his online social networks and it was my first relationship with a TransGuy. I had a lot of the same fears, concerns, questions that you have.

As far as the pronouns go, you'll get there. I think it's especially hard if he was previously going by female pronouns and now wants to switch to male. It's completely reasonable for him to request that you do it, but it's also reasonable for you to slip sometimes and he has to understand that. It took a couple months for me to stop slipping, but now its very rare, and usually only happens if I am in a conversation with his family because they are still using female pronouns and its hard for my brain to concentrate on both the conversation and keeping the pronouns correct.

As far as your friends and family are concerned, its difficult, especially because they are used to you being a lesbian and dating female identified people. It might feel like it requires an explanation, but it only requires explanation if you desire to give an explanation. It's your relationship and as long as you are happy then that's all that matters. And yeah, sometimes it's difficult to deal with their lack of understanding, or lack of knowledge masquerading as lack of understanding. But you take it one step at a time, one conversation at a time and understand that for some people, thinking outside the gender binary is hard and takes time. As long as they aren't making you feel uncomfortable or being mean, just do your best to absorb the knowledge to be able to educate the people in your life that you care about.

And as far as your identity goes, every person considers and comes to their identity differently. But thats the beautiful thing about it. Your identity is YOURS and you can do with it what you will. For me, my identity has nothing to do with my partners identity. I went down a long road and finally came out the other side identifying as a Transensual Femme Lesbian. I like it and feel that it accurately describes me. I personally do not feel that having a boyfriend makes me straight. I think it does help though that Logic also does not identify as a straight male, and has no desire to have me be a straight girl to his straight guy. He is currently pre-T, pre-op, but even after he will always be queer. There are some guys who go through transition, identify as a straight male, leave their past in the past, and date straight girls. This type of relationship would not work for me because my queerness and queer community is too important to me.

Wow, ok that was kind of a lot, so I'll leave it at that for now. But there is a thread for SOFFA's, so feel free to pop in over there too! Clicky Clicky

Also, feel free to PM me anytime and maybe we can meet up for coffee sometime since we are in the same city!

MsDemeanor · 09-21-2010, 01:03 AM

Someone might want to mention to you the part about going on T where their sex drive goes through the roof. It can be all sex all the time for a while.

betenoire · 09-21-2010, 05:30 AM

Hi, Zora. I'm Brandy.

For your question about what it means for your identity....well. Really, nobody and nothing can make you anything than what you are. If you feel Queer - you're Queer.

That's certainly not the end of the story, though. It's a conversation that the two of you are going to have to have at some point, I'd think...regarding YOU and your identity. You do not have to transition (for lack of a better word) just because he is - and he needs to respect you and who you are.

And then there's the T. I certainly haven't dated every transguy on the planet (thank goodness, cuz that sounds wicked time consuming) so I'm no expert. But IN MY EXPERIENCE (which comes with the disclaimer that it's not true for every person every time) sometimes guys can get real self-centred when physical changes start happening. And rightfully so - I get that it's exciting. But for myself...I can only have so many conversations about "is this a new hair?" before I go completely batshit crazy and bolt.

I guess the key to navigating that stage will be lots of talk and boundary setting BEFORE it happens - which I never had the foresight to do. If you can be clear about what you need and your guy can remember that there are two of you in the relationship, you should be good to go.

Linus · 09-21-2010, 07:41 AM

To add a viewpoint from the other side of things

you may want to encourage your guy to find a support group in the area. That way he won't constantly bug you with questions like the one Betenoire mentions. For me, it made a huge difference in my relationship with K since I could lean on others for support when it became too much for her.

You may also want to find a support group for yourself (SOFFA) that is queer oriented. A lot of the questions and such that you're asking may also be ones you could ask others to find out what their take is on it in a more personal setting.

Melissa · 09-21-2010, 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zora77

Since I have ‘transitioned’ from a lesbian to a queer femme I have dated butches who fall on the more masculine side of the spectrum. Currently I am dating someone who did identify as butch when we met and recently started to openly acknowledge that he is transgendered, and feels like a male.

Although I don’t have a problem with this and try to be supportive, I have to acknowledge that this change affects me too as his partner. Some of the things I struggle with are: remembering to refer to him as ‘he’ (which is harder than it sounds because until recently ‘he’ referred to himself as ‘she’); dealing with raised eyebrows from friends when I refer to my ‘boyfriend’ (which from their perspective definitely requires an explanation) and deal with their lack of understanding; wondering what this means for my own identity (does that make me straight?), etc.

At this point he choses not to take T but since he does not pass and is struggling with this issue, I feel that the last word is not spoken on hormones. I don’t want to worry about problems that are that have not occurred and may never occur – but I still wonder about how the use of hormones affects the relationship (I have heard that T impacts a person’s demeanor, mood and could change in parts someone’s personality). On the flipside of that – if he sticks with his decision not to take T, I wonder how his struggle of always being perceived differently than he feels inside will affect him and our relationship.

I have been reading some the discussions by FTMs and transfolks on this site and am hugely grateful for being able to learn from the different perspectives (and would love to learn more from you!). In addition I think it would be great to hear from partners of FTMs, transgendered, transmasulin, etc. identified individuals about challenges to the relationship and how they were overcome. I’d appreciate everything you are willing to share. Thank you in advance!

P.S. Just to be clear - I do not only anticipate challenges and problems! In the big picture the concerns I expressed above are only a small piece of how I feel when I think of us.

Hi Zora - I can relate to some of your worries. My partner started taking T about 3 months ago. We've been together almost 5 years. When we met he identified as stone butch but often passed as male. I've always dated butches but I id as lesbian and still do. When Rufus decided to go on T I was not surprised as he always felt male or would sometimes say he was neither male or female but his sense of gender and his body was always male in some degree or another. His sense of gender was never female. He had also had top surgery before we met. So going on T was not like a bolt out of the blue for me, it felt like the natural next step.

I've read through all the posts here and can connect with just about all of them. Everyone has the same fears about T. What will change physically, what are the negatives, what about MY identity and so on. We talked about all these things before T. Some of the physical changes are happening. I laughed when I read Betenoire's post about hair. Every hair gets examined and talked about. Last night I had to stare at his knuckles while he groaned about knuckle hair, thinning head hair, and sprouting chin hair.

Then someone mentioned the increased sex drive. Yep, way increased. Not that I'm complaining. As for mood, I've not noticed any difference so far and all his quirks are still in place. So personality hasn't changed at this point.

In terms of myself it feels odd to be perceived as heterosexual by the outside world, but since he is so masculine anyway we were perceived this way most of the time before T. So I suppose this hasn't changed in any way.

I had all the same questions and worries you have now. A lot of those questions and worries have gone away as I've realized that T does not change things in a bad way but for us, only in a good way and that many of the fears were just that and have never been realized.

And don't worry about the pronoun change. I slip too but I'm getting better. In fact, he slipped the other day and referred to himself as she. Its just use and time. What once felt strange to say, will eventually just come natrually.

Melissa

Isadora · 09-21-2010, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MsDemeanor

Someone might want to mention to you the part about going on T where their sex drive goes through the roof. It can be all sex all the time for a while.

This is a challenge? LOL I love a good challenge.

Jet · 09-21-2010, 11:13 AM

I didn't realize being trans or in transition is such a hassle to partners.

Melissa · 09-21-2010, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jet

I didn't realize being trans or in transition is such a hassle to partners.

Jet- I'm not reading anyone's post as saying it is a hassle. I think you have grossly misunderstood my post that I made earlier. I am just writing to say in no way was my post meant to imply what you are charging here. Nor do I think anyone else's post implies this.

Melissa

Isadora · 09-21-2010, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jet

I didn't realize being trans or in transition is such a hassle to partners.

Seriously, I don't think it is a hassle. I think what it does is make you look at your old paradigms of how you feel about your self, how you feel about men and learning to accept the changes that come along with any paradigm shift in yourself or someone you love.

I found it not to be challenging in the changes he went through but I did look at myself differently. In that wow, I felt comfortable, I felt cherished and respected as a partner, I felt honoured to be part of his life. I still do. I learned so much about him and so much about me. I learned about integrity and honesty. I learned that my "labels" for myself, the names I used to id flowed more graciously into my life and I changed, I transformed with him.

I used to watch him when we checked into hotels. The painful expression of having to explain why the ID did not meet the 6' man that was standing before her. When that changed there was a broadening of comfort, a hallelujah of joy and I just wanted to throw my arms in the air and dance like I was in some kind of musical.

Do I get seen as another woman with her man. Why, yes I probably did and do. Do I care? No, I just wanted my man. I just wanted to see the smile that started from his heart and shows so bright in his eyes.

To me, this is not a hassle.

Melissa · 09-21-2010, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isadora

Seriously, I don't think it is a hassle. I think what it does is make you look at your old paradigms of how you feel about your self, how you feel about men and learning to accept the changes that come along with any paradigm shift in yourself or someone you love.

I found it not to be challenging in the changes he went through but I did look at myself differently. In that wow, I felt comfortable, I felt cherished and respected as a partner, I felt honoured to be part of his life. I still do. I learned so much about him and so much about me. I learned about integrity and honesty. I learned that my "labels" for myself, the names I used to id flowed more graciously into my life and I changed, I transformed with him.

I used to watch him when we checked into hotels. The painful expression of having to explain why the ID did not meet the 6' man that was standing before her. When that changed there was a broadening of comfort, a hallelujah of joy and I just wanted to throw my arms in the air and dance like I was in some kind of musical.

Do I get seen as another woman with her man. Why, yes I probably did and do. Do I care? No, I just wanted my man. I just wanted to see the smile that started from his heart and shown so bright in his eyes.

To me, this is not a hassle.

Great post. It really does make you think about gender, identity, sexuality, relationships. It opens up a whole new point of view and its been very welcomed. I think we go on this journey with our partners and share many of their fears and hopes and also enjoy all the positives. For me, there have been no negatives.

Melissa

julieisafemme · 09-21-2010, 12:40 PM

Hi Zora. There is a lot of support for partners in San Francisco. I go to a once a month meeting there and I will send you the information on that. It is hugely helpful to me.

I met my partner almost two years ago. He had been on T for 6 months. I have always related to him as he so that was not an issue for me. The change physically, emotionally and spiritually for him has been quite an experience. I can relate to all the things other partners have posted. I have spent a lot of time considering my own gender and his. I have read a lot of books on the subject. We also went to the Gender Spectrum conference in Seattle last year. I highly recommend that. The next one is in 2011.

The whole identity thing is kind of a can of worms for me. Both my partner and I are happy and comfortable to identify as Queer. We can parse it down from there but we are Queer and my partner is not in the closet about his gender. Not that this is a bad thing. Just a choice he has made and that I am fine with as well.

The most tiresome aspect of his transition has been explaning it to others. If you can, set boundaries around that. It took me a year before I realized that I do not have to answer everyone's questions! That took a huge burden off me.

PearlsNLace · 09-21-2010, 01:44 PM

Im so glad you have found us.

I have been with a few guys, in varying stages of transition. Some, I have casually dated. 2, have been partners. My fiance just got his prescription for T, and due to the fact that its going through an online pharmacy, literally the change is in the mail.

I did not struggle with pronouns when I have dated transguys. But, as a mother to a transwoman (my former foster child is almost 22years old) I have found it difficult to speak of the past. In OUR past, my storys are of who HE was, what HE did. It can be difficult to share without sharing more than is needed. There are people I am sure who wonder why I always talk about my sons past, and whats going on with my daughters future. I find today that I explain details on an as needed basis. My needs, I might add, not any one elses needs.

Each guy will handle his transition uniquely. One guy I dated got very enthusiastic about every facial hair that grew, and frequently used my masquera or eyelash dye to make them stand out. And wanted me to celebrate with each new hair. Ive met guys who have chosen to stay clean shaven throughout even their early journey with T. Voice changes, fat pad changes, all of these will have a different meaning for each person.
And, I know some guys who do NOT start T, and there are a host of reasons for that. And then there are the challenges of binding the chest vs surgery, or is that a big deal at all? It isnt at all for 2 men I know- one whos chest is clearly evident (while sporting a full beard) and one guy who binds enough that it just doesnt show and he passes without comment.

Is it a hassle to go through this? Honestly (to Jet) it can be for me. But that has more to do with what the quality of the RELATIONSHIP Im having with the person at the time. And the individuals maturity and personality pre T is a big deal. If the only social conversation the guy Im dating seems to be able to have is about gender, his transition, the way the world reacts differently as he begins to pass, and more about HIM, then, well, truth is his transition is probably just exacerbating the features that were allready there, like being a boring self absorbed pain in the ass. Im not saying that transition isnt a big deal, because it is. But I have found that for a early transitioning relationship to thrive there needs to be other things that also take precidence in focus. Interests that do NOT revolve around transition are vital.

I have often dealt with the "does this make you straight" question. For me, I feel it just reaffirms just how queer I am. Im so queer, you cant tell unless you know a LOT about my sex practices, and there are just a thousand things you really dont need to know, if your still asking me if Im straight now. This is my newest come back, and I am by no means an expert. Quippy comebacks have been usefull for me. But it depends on the mood Im in, and the setting/the relationship with the asker that I have, and what my needs are.

I keep bringing up needs. There is a reason. As I was first getting into a relationship with a guy in early transition, it was at a time I was not clear on what my needs where. Nor did I have the self esteem to realize it was ok to have needs if they were in opposition to someone elses needs. I hadnt learned to voice them, I didnt know that comprimises could be made. I just gave in. Gave energy, gave time, gave money, and gave a lot of emotion to someone elses needs. That was my part in creating a bad situation. I learned a whole hell of a lot by that, and do not regret that part of my journey today. What I know now, a few years later is that 1) i have needs 2) I can communicate those needs 3) I can listen to others needs 4) I can help us both get our needs met (often. Sometimes not, and when that happens, it sucks, but the communication keeps going.) These lessons helped me have a really solid relationship begin with someone else. And Im happily engaged to Paphigleo today.

Since some have allready addressed emotional demeanor and personality issues, Im only going to add what I havent seen in the discussion all ready.
Usually, what I see is that T helps a guy settle into his own self. I know thats vague. Paphigleos words are probably more clear, so I will borrow them- what he has seen is that it "chills them out". Clear as mud? Ive seen guys become less, not more, agitated. Now, I have seen the response time between stimulus and reaction shorten, squeezing out the space for rational thought, creating Homer Simpson like DOH! moments. (for those not indoctrinated in all that is Simpson, I apologize for the reference) It is importatant for testosterone levels to be regulated. When a guy is on too much T, over reactions can be bad and its not pretty. My favorite example of this is on a popular movie called "50 first dates" with Drew Barrymore. The main charachters brother is a pretty comedic representation of what too much testosterone can look like.

This is a journey. No one can tell you what the true destination will be. So find some friends who love you, who SEE YOU, and know that your need for information and support is VALID. Again, Im glad you found US.

Pearls

betenoire · 09-21-2010, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PearlsNLace

Is it a hassle to go through this? Honestly (to Jet) it can be for me. But that has more to do with what the quality of the RELATIONSHIP Im having with the person at the time. And the individuals maturity and personality pre T is a big deal. If the only social conversation the guy Im dating seems to be able to have is about gender, his transition, the way the world reacts differently as he begins to pass, and more about HIM, then, well, truth is his transition is probably just exacerbating the features that were allready there, like being a boring self absorbed pain in the ass. Im not saying that transition isnt a big deal, because it is. But I have found that for a early transitioning relationship to thrive there needs to be other things that also take precidence in focus. Interests that do NOT revolve around transition are vital.

This needs repeating.

Remember: You are NOT a bad person if you want to talk about something other than his transition. You are NOT unsupportive if you want to talk about something other than his transition. You are NOT a giant transphobe meaniehead if you want to talk about something other than his transition.

I'm not saying it's normal to never want to talk about your guy's new hair. I'm just saying that you're a person too and you still deserve to talk about what happened at work today, that the phonebill is due tomorrow, what you both should have for dinner, etc.

If you don't take care of you, if you don't make sure that you're BOTH taking care of your relationship - you're going to end up wicked unhappy, resentful, and maybe feel a lot ripped off.

firie · 09-21-2010, 08:30 PM

What a great thread! Thanks Zora!

I went about thanking everyone before I could rep, but truly to those posting, I have really appreciated what has been shared here.

I have to say that Dylan's transition has quite happily been mine, and we have grown together in every minute of it. I have learned alongside him, and have grown in ways that I did not expect.

Dylan has been on T for over a year. This has been a really smooth, enjoyable experience for both of us. I love every little hair (new or doomed to fall out) on him (and I know in some relationships there needs to be boundary there, certainly) and so I have loved every change that has come about. He talks a lot about it, but so do I, and we are always talking to each other.

As for identity, I have never identified as a lesbian, and find queer the best fit for me at this point in time. As far as navigating in the world, I agree with Julie for the most part, that explaining things can be tiresome, but I am really developing a confidence in educating people. I really don't care what most people think. I am the queer girl who dates the trans guy at work. People are social worky enough there to get that whether they ever understand pronouns. They might judge me privately but I am too good at my job to be openly discriminated against. And if I was, I would sue.

T has been joyous, honestly. I give Dylan his shots weekly and there is something wonderful about shooting the shit into his ass--kind of a pay back for his transgressions throughout the week. Teehee.

We read a lot. One thing that might be helpful to you, Zora and partner, is youtube. Guys videotape their experiences to share and some walk through this each week, or month, for a year or so. I have to say that this was so informative for me and really salute the guys who share this information.

I have really found--and others may have as well--that I enjoy being a member of the trans community as a SOFFA, and the more I learn and become a part of it, I value its place and worth in my life. I identify as queer, but feel to be an actual part of the trans community, as a SOFFA. I have no issue with saying that if I were to situate myself in the acronym of GLBT, I would be in that T. I feel most at home in that place now.

I also think often that when we have these conversations there is a great fear (and naturally) of loss, yet I have found quite the opposite, and particularly with respect to community. I have often found in conversations a worry and fear of losing a sense of community--in that, well, if you are femme/lesbian/butch and partnering with a guy, you are straight! or you are totally without queer community! or you are a weirdo! or you are totally no longer a lesbian! or if you are butch and partnering with a guy, you're a fag! or what are you any way?!?!?! That's gross--any one who questions you in where you stand has issues, yanno? Why should they really, truly care so long as you are happy?

I think personally that there is something to embrace in growing in community--particularly if a couple is comfortable in the trans community--in the sense of going to events, celebrations, political things, groups, marches, camps, etc (its understandable if they are not--as sometimes this might complicate passing), but it is immensely diverse and immensely strong, and has such an incredibly beautiful and tremendously valid history among those other letters of the "queer" spectrum.

I do advise this: don't let anyone butt into your love life because they have some need to make you feel weird about it. This is again an issue the person has and, well, its likely transphobia. This goes for everyone, your family, your friends, your community. If you love this person and life is happy on a daily basis, enjoy that immensely and tell everyone else to go to hell. I also advise that NO ONE has the right to judge your sex life in this relationship, ask you questions about it when you don't feel comfortable answering, or make you feel that you are somehow controlled by his transition (and this is in no way in any reference to what Bet said--just want to caveat there). When I say this, I mean specifically where a person transphobically assumes that his transition somehow is damaging to you just because of what it is.

I will say that what has amazed me most is the utmost patience that is often extended by the trans community with respect to the constant poking and prodding of questions and expectations--which is also extended quite frequently to SOFFAS--to explain the nature of what is "trans" to people who are too lazy to google.

My advice is that you only speak with those you like talking to about it, and if you start feeling weird about how a person might be prying or being phobic or just being ghastly (some people think it is perfectly acceptable to say whatever they feel about a transition without any thought as to how it might impact a person), nip that one in the bud until they can learn to speak to you in a way that is unoffensive and on your terms of what is comfortable. I have had to flat up tell a friend at work that I don't dissect my love life with anyone when she was prodding about Dylan and I. People are curious and nosy, and if they are respectful, that's fine. But flip in your head when the questions come and ask: would I ever say such things to them about their identity? Their relationship? Their loved ones? Set up that boundary, hon-because folks can say the darnedest of things!

Also, as many are saying here, T doesn't hit your guy overnight and make him a monster. That is transphobia at work, and it's a bunch of crap. This whole "rage" and "moody" bullshit is simply that. You can pull that up in research if need be.

I would also recommend reading and talking with folks in the medical community--the doctors and therapists out there who are awesomely trans supportive.

You are also welcome to PM me whenever. If you ever want to chat with Dylan and I in any other way, too, because he's a great resource, you just let us know.

Zora77 · 09-21-2010, 08:47 PM

A big THANK YOU to all of you for your insights and comments. It’s definitely food for thought and much appreciated! Also, great advice on joining a support group – which I will do once I mustered up some courage.

I think in parts I’m just very unsure of what to expect because I have seen so many changes in him already since we met about a year ago.

If he decides to take T, it looks like I’d have to deal with possible mood or even personality changes, being perceived as a straight couple, some hairy discussions and hey, if the sex drive would get any higher than it already is, I might have to take some myself to keep up

Not taking T, I imagine, must be even harder because you stake out your spot outside of the comfort zone of society and have to deal with constant confusion and possibly also hostility. I’m curious to learn more about how that route is traveled. I can imagine it sucks to be perceived and related to differently than you feel and want most of the time – and as the partner I would cringe and get upset when witnessing this kind of ignorance.

Part of me almost hopes he’ll take T – and in thinking that, I feel confronted with my own desire not to rock the boat or just fit in. But he is concerned about T being associated with a higher risk of cancer and I’d rather see him healthy and not fit in that accepting that risk.

No idea what will happen - but then again, who can ever know what to expect in any relationship anyway, right? And on some level I have always enjoyed challenging myself and others. Thanks again. It feels really good to hear that I’m not the only one thinking about these things.

09-20-2010, 08:19 PM	#1
Zora77 Junior Member How Do You Identify?: Queer Femme Preferred Pronoun?: She Join Date: May 2010 Location: San Francisco Posts: 58 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 72 Thanked 121 Times in 37 Posts Rep Power: 175635	Dating a Trans Person (FTM) Since I have ‘transitioned’ from a lesbian to a queer femme I have dated butches who fall on the more masculine side of the spectrum. Currently I am dating someone who did identify as butch when we met and recently started to openly acknowledge that he is transgendered, and feels like a male. Although I don’t have a problem with this and try to be supportive, I have to acknowledge that this change affects me too as his partner. Some of the things I struggle with are: remembering to refer to him as ‘he’ (which is harder than it sounds because until recently ‘he’ referred to himself as ‘she’); dealing with raised eyebrows from friends when I refer to my ‘boyfriend’ (which from their perspective definitely requires an explanation) and deal with their lack of understanding; wondering what this means for my own identity (does that make me straight?), etc. At this point he choses not to take T but since he does not pass and is struggling with this issue, I feel that the last word is not spoken on hormones. I don’t want to worry about problems that are that have not occurred and may never occur – but I still wonder about how the use of hormones affects the relationship (I have heard that T impacts a person’s demeanor, mood and could change in parts someone’s personality). On the flipside of that – if he sticks with his decision not to take T, I wonder how his struggle of always being perceived differently than he feels inside will affect him and our relationship. I have been reading some the discussions by FTMs and transfolks on this site and am hugely grateful for being able to learn from the different perspectives (and would love to learn more from you!). In addition I think it would be great to hear from partners of FTMs, transgendered, transmasulin, etc. identified individuals about challenges to the relationship and how they were overcome. I’d appreciate everything you are willing to share. Thank you in advance! P.S. Just to be clear - I do not only anticipate challenges and problems! In the big picture the concerns I expressed above are only a small piece of how I feel when I think of us.

09-20-2010, 08:41 PM	#2
Ursy Member How Do You Identify?: Femme Relationship Status: Engaged Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Australia Posts: 274 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 606 Thanked 661 Times in 206 Posts Rep Power: 2127933	Hi Zora I've been with my guy nearly 10 years now, he started on T about 5 years ago. Don't worry, you will get used to using male pronouns - what really helped me was to join a Yahoo group for SOFFAs (Significant Others, Friends, Family and Allies) of FTMs where I could talk about it with others who were going through / had gone through the same thing in their relationships. The identity thing - well, I loosely identify as pan-sexual / queer femme / whatever so it wasn't a big problem for me, but yes, it can be a sticking point for some, definitely. As for changes to the relationship, there were many - it's a complex journey our guys go on and it's quite amazing how hormones can change a person! First of all, Kris is much much happier than he used to be. I know there is sometimes a worry about T making a guy more aggressive, but we didn't find this to be the case. He would get moody if his T shot schedule was off, but otherwise has become more emotionally stable. Personally, I think that if someone is not a naturally aggressive person, T won't make them aggressive. I could write a tome about this so I'll stop now and give you a chance to read this post before it becomes too big! Cheers, Ursy __________________ My art My Zazzle My Printfection

09-20-2010, 08:42 PM	#3
Isadora Member How Do You Identify?: Momma, Ma'am Preferred Pronoun?: She/Her Relationship Status: I am in love. Truly Madly Deeply Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: California Posts: 997 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 502 Thanked 2,126 Times in 559 Posts Rep Power: 2369288	The second love of my life, the person whom I walked with through his transition, the man who I adore, one of the few people I will actually listen to, the person I met 11 years ago never changed. There were no challenges over his transition. It was not so much a transition as a phoenix experience... he was always there...the essence was and is the same, the body transformed. Not a moment of challenge around his transition, just love and acceptance. I still love him even though the bastard fed my addiction to country music and southern drawls. __________________ "I have a respect for manners as such, they are a way of dealing with people you don't agree with or like." Margaret Mead Read me! www.leatherati.com

09-21-2010, 01:03 AM	#7
MsDemeanor Member How Do You Identify?: queer stone femme Relationship Status: Happily married to MisterMeanor, the man of my dreams Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: SF Bay Area Posts: 703 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 165 Thanked 1,853 Times in 511 Posts Rep Power: 2698180	Someone might want to mention to you the part about going on T where their sex drive goes through the roof. It can be all sex all the time for a while. __________________ artisan jewelry jewelry gallery

09-21-2010, 05:30 AM	#8
betenoire Senior Member How Do You Identify?: Satan in a Sunday Hat Preferred Pronoun?: Maow Relationship Status: Married Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: The Chemical Valley Posts: 4,086 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 3,312 Thanked 8,737 Times in 2,565 Posts Rep Power: 21474856	Hi, Zora. I'm Brandy. For your question about what it means for your identity....well. Really, nobody and nothing can make you anything than what you are. If you feel Queer - you're Queer. That's certainly not the end of the story, though. It's a conversation that the two of you are going to have to have at some point, I'd think...regarding YOU and your identity. You do not have to transition (for lack of a better word) just because he is - and he needs to respect you and who you are. And then there's the T. I certainly haven't dated every transguy on the planet (thank goodness, cuz that sounds wicked time consuming) so I'm no expert. But IN MY EXPERIENCE (which comes with the disclaimer that it's not true for every person every time) sometimes guys can get real self-centred when physical changes start happening. And rightfully so - I get that it's exciting. But for myself...I can only have so many conversations about "is this a new hair?" before I go completely batshit crazy and bolt. I guess the key to navigating that stage will be lots of talk and boundary setting BEFORE it happens - which I never had the foresight to do. If you can be clear about what you need and your guy can remember that there are two of you in the relationship, you should be good to go. __________________ bête noire \bet-NWAHR\, noun: One that is particularly disliked or that is to be avoided.

09-20-2010, 10:55 PM	#6
SFFemmePrincess Member How Do You Identify?: Femme Lesbian Princess Preferred Pronoun?: Female Pronouns Relationship Status: Single but also non negotiably non monogamous Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Bay Area Gal! Posts: 142 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 47 Thanked 270 Times in 77 Posts Rep Power: 687706	Hey Zora! I have been with Logic for about a year and a half now. We met on another site like this one and I knew he was trans from the get go. But when we met, he wasn't yet out to his family, co-workers, or really anyone outside of his online social networks and it was my first relationship with a TransGuy. I had a lot of the same fears, concerns, questions that you have. As far as the pronouns go, you'll get there. I think it's especially hard if he was previously going by female pronouns and now wants to switch to male. It's completely reasonable for him to request that you do it, but it's also reasonable for you to slip sometimes and he has to understand that. It took a couple months for me to stop slipping, but now its very rare, and usually only happens if I am in a conversation with his family because they are still using female pronouns and its hard for my brain to concentrate on both the conversation and keeping the pronouns correct. As far as your friends and family are concerned, its difficult, especially because they are used to you being a lesbian and dating female identified people. It might feel like it requires an explanation, but it only requires explanation if you desire to give an explanation. It's your relationship and as long as you are happy then that's all that matters. And yeah, sometimes it's difficult to deal with their lack of understanding, or lack of knowledge masquerading as lack of understanding. But you take it one step at a time, one conversation at a time and understand that for some people, thinking outside the gender binary is hard and takes time. As long as they aren't making you feel uncomfortable or being mean, just do your best to absorb the knowledge to be able to educate the people in your life that you care about. And as far as your identity goes, every person considers and comes to their identity differently. But thats the beautiful thing about it. Your identity is YOURS and you can do with it what you will. For me, my identity has nothing to do with my partners identity. I went down a long road and finally came out the other side identifying as a Transensual Femme Lesbian. I like it and feel that it accurately describes me. I personally do not feel that having a boyfriend makes me straight. I think it does help though that Logic also does not identify as a straight male, and has no desire to have me be a straight girl to his straight guy. He is currently pre-T, pre-op, but even after he will always be queer. There are some guys who go through transition, identify as a straight male, leave their past in the past, and date straight girls. This type of relationship would not work for me because my queerness and queer community is too important to me. Wow, ok that was kind of a lot, so I'll leave it at that for now. But there is a thread for SOFFA's, so feel free to pop in over there too! Clicky Clicky Also, feel free to PM me anytime and maybe we can meet up for coffee sometime since we are in the same city!

09-21-2010, 07:41 AM	#9
Linus The Planet's Technical Bubba How Do You Identify?: FTM Preferred Pronoun?: He/Him/Geek Relationship Status: Married to my forever! Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Redondo Beach, CA Posts: 5,440 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 2,929 Thanked 10,729 Times in 3,172 Posts Rep Power: 21474857	To add a viewpoint from the other side of things you may want to encourage your guy to find a support group in the area. That way he won't constantly bug you with questions like the one Betenoire mentions. For me, it made a huge difference in my relationship with K since I could lean on others for support when it became too much for her. You may also want to find a support group for yourself (SOFFA) that is queer oriented. A lot of the questions and such that you're asking may also be ones you could ask others to find out what their take is on it in a more personal setting. __________________ Personal Blog \|\| [] \|\| Cigar Blog "We become Human Doings instead of Human Beings." -- Ram Dass

09-21-2010, 11:13 AM	#12
Jet Timed Out - TOS Drama How Do You Identify?: .. Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: .. Posts: 3,471 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 292 Thanked 2,647 Times in 1,293 Posts Rep Power: 0	I didn't realize being trans or in transition is such a hassle to partners.

09-21-2010, 12:40 PM	#16
julieisafemme Member How Do You Identify?: Femme Woman Preferred Pronoun?: She Relationship Status: Married to Greyson Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: In the present Posts: 828 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 3,156 Thanked 3,434 Times in 660 Posts Rep Power: 21474852	Hi Zora. There is a lot of support for partners in San Francisco. I go to a once a month meeting there and I will send you the information on that. It is hugely helpful to me. I met my partner almost two years ago. He had been on T for 6 months. I have always related to him as he so that was not an issue for me. The change physically, emotionally and spiritually for him has been quite an experience. I can relate to all the things other partners have posted. I have spent a lot of time considering my own gender and his. I have read a lot of books on the subject. We also went to the Gender Spectrum conference in Seattle last year. I highly recommend that. The next one is in 2011. The whole identity thing is kind of a can of worms for me. Both my partner and I are happy and comfortable to identify as Queer. We can parse it down from there but we are Queer and my partner is not in the closet about his gender. Not that this is a bad thing. Just a choice he has made and that I am fine with as well. The most tiresome aspect of his transition has been explaning it to others. If you can, set boundaries around that. It took me a year before I realized that I do not have to answer everyone's questions! That took a huge burden off me. __________________ Happiness Bubbling!

09-21-2010, 01:44 PM	#17
PearlsNLace Member How Do You Identify?: queer Preferred Pronoun?: They/Them & her/she Relationship Status: Lucky, very lucky Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Portlandia, Oregon Posts: 427 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 875 Thanked 1,286 Times in 315 Posts Rep Power: 6505517	Im so glad you have found us. I have been with a few guys, in varying stages of transition. Some, I have casually dated. 2, have been partners. My fiance just got his prescription for T, and due to the fact that its going through an online pharmacy, literally the change is in the mail. I did not struggle with pronouns when I have dated transguys. But, as a mother to a transwoman (my former foster child is almost 22years old) I have found it difficult to speak of the past. In OUR past, my storys are of who HE was, what HE did. It can be difficult to share without sharing more than is needed. There are people I am sure who wonder why I always talk about my sons past, and whats going on with my daughters future. I find today that I explain details on an as needed basis. My needs, I might add, not any one elses needs. Each guy will handle his transition uniquely. One guy I dated got very enthusiastic about every facial hair that grew, and frequently used my masquera or eyelash dye to make them stand out. And wanted me to celebrate with each new hair. Ive met guys who have chosen to stay clean shaven throughout even their early journey with T. Voice changes, fat pad changes, all of these will have a different meaning for each person. And, I know some guys who do NOT start T, and there are a host of reasons for that. And then there are the challenges of binding the chest vs surgery, or is that a big deal at all? It isnt at all for 2 men I know- one whos chest is clearly evident (while sporting a full beard) and one guy who binds enough that it just doesnt show and he passes without comment. Is it a hassle to go through this? Honestly (to Jet) it can be for me. But that has more to do with what the quality of the RELATIONSHIP Im having with the person at the time. And the individuals maturity and personality pre T is a big deal. If the only social conversation the guy Im dating seems to be able to have is about gender, his transition, the way the world reacts differently as he begins to pass, and more about HIM, then, well, truth is his transition is probably just exacerbating the features that were allready there, like being a boring self absorbed pain in the ass. Im not saying that transition isnt a big deal, because it is. But I have found that for a early transitioning relationship to thrive there needs to be other things that also take precidence in focus. Interests that do NOT revolve around transition are vital. I have often dealt with the "does this make you straight" question. For me, I feel it just reaffirms just how queer I am. Im so queer, you cant tell unless you know a LOT about my sex practices, and there are just a thousand things you really dont need to know, if your still asking me if Im straight now. This is my newest come back, and I am by no means an expert. Quippy comebacks have been usefull for me. But it depends on the mood Im in, and the setting/the relationship with the asker that I have, and what my needs are. I keep bringing up needs. There is a reason. As I was first getting into a relationship with a guy in early transition, it was at a time I was not clear on what my needs where. Nor did I have the self esteem to realize it was ok to have needs if they were in opposition to someone elses needs. I hadnt learned to voice them, I didnt know that comprimises could be made. I just gave in. Gave energy, gave time, gave money, and gave a lot of emotion to someone elses needs. That was my part in creating a bad situation. I learned a whole hell of a lot by that, and do not regret that part of my journey today. What I know now, a few years later is that 1) i have needs 2) I can communicate those needs 3) I can listen to others needs 4) I can help us both get our needs met (often. Sometimes not, and when that happens, it sucks, but the communication keeps going.) These lessons helped me have a really solid relationship begin with someone else. And Im happily engaged to Paphigleo today. Since some have allready addressed emotional demeanor and personality issues, Im only going to add what I havent seen in the discussion all ready. Usually, what I see is that T helps a guy settle into his own self. I know thats vague. Paphigleos words are probably more clear, so I will borrow them- what he has seen is that it "chills them out". Clear as mud? Ive seen guys become less, not more, agitated. Now, I have seen the response time between stimulus and reaction shorten, squeezing out the space for rational thought, creating Homer Simpson like DOH! moments. (for those not indoctrinated in all that is Simpson, I apologize for the reference) It is importatant for testosterone levels to be regulated. When a guy is on too much T, over reactions can be bad and its not pretty. My favorite example of this is on a popular movie called "50 first dates" with Drew Barrymore. The main charachters brother is a pretty comedic representation of what too much testosterone can look like. This is a journey. No one can tell you what the true destination will be. So find some friends who love you, who SEE YOU, and know that your need for information and support is VALID. Again, Im glad you found US. Pearls

09-21-2010, 08:30 PM	#19
firie Timed Out How Do You Identify?: . Relationship Status: . Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: . Posts: 204 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 191 Thanked 469 Times in 128 Posts Rep Power: 0	What a great thread! Thanks Zora! I went about thanking everyone before I could rep, but truly to those posting, I have really appreciated what has been shared here. I have to say that Dylan's transition has quite happily been mine, and we have grown together in every minute of it. I have learned alongside him, and have grown in ways that I did not expect. Dylan has been on T for over a year. This has been a really smooth, enjoyable experience for both of us. I love every little hair (new or doomed to fall out) on him (and I know in some relationships there needs to be boundary there, certainly) and so I have loved every change that has come about. He talks a lot about it, but so do I, and we are always talking to each other. As for identity, I have never identified as a lesbian, and find queer the best fit for me at this point in time. As far as navigating in the world, I agree with Julie for the most part, that explaining things can be tiresome, but I am really developing a confidence in educating people. I really don't care what most people think. I am the queer girl who dates the trans guy at work. People are social worky enough there to get that whether they ever understand pronouns. They might judge me privately but I am too good at my job to be openly discriminated against. And if I was, I would sue. T has been joyous, honestly. I give Dylan his shots weekly and there is something wonderful about shooting the shit into his ass--kind of a pay back for his transgressions throughout the week. Teehee. We read a lot. One thing that might be helpful to you, Zora and partner, is youtube. Guys videotape their experiences to share and some walk through this each week, or month, for a year or so. I have to say that this was so informative for me and really salute the guys who share this information. I have really found--and others may have as well--that I enjoy being a member of the trans community as a SOFFA, and the more I learn and become a part of it, I value its place and worth in my life. I identify as queer, but feel to be an actual part of the trans community, as a SOFFA. I have no issue with saying that if I were to situate myself in the acronym of GLBT, I would be in that T. I feel most at home in that place now. I also think often that when we have these conversations there is a great fear (and naturally) of loss, yet I have found quite the opposite, and particularly with respect to community. I have often found in conversations a worry and fear of losing a sense of community--in that, well, if you are femme/lesbian/butch and partnering with a guy, you are straight! or you are totally without queer community! or you are a weirdo! or you are totally no longer a lesbian! or if you are butch and partnering with a guy, you're a fag! or what are you any way?!?!?! That's gross--any one who questions you in where you stand has issues, yanno? Why should they really, truly care so long as you are happy? I think personally that there is something to embrace in growing in community--particularly if a couple is comfortable in the trans community--in the sense of going to events, celebrations, political things, groups, marches, camps, etc (its understandable if they are not--as sometimes this might complicate passing), but it is immensely diverse and immensely strong, and has such an incredibly beautiful and tremendously valid history among those other letters of the "queer" spectrum. I do advise this: don't let anyone butt into your love life because they have some need to make you feel weird about it. This is again an issue the person has and, well, its likely transphobia. This goes for everyone, your family, your friends, your community. If you love this person and life is happy on a daily basis, enjoy that immensely and tell everyone else to go to hell. I also advise that NO ONE has the right to judge your sex life in this relationship, ask you questions about it when you don't feel comfortable answering, or make you feel that you are somehow controlled by his transition (and this is in no way in any reference to what Bet said--just want to caveat there). When I say this, I mean specifically where a person transphobically assumes that his transition somehow is damaging to you just because of what it is. I will say that what has amazed me most is the utmost patience that is often extended by the trans community with respect to the constant poking and prodding of questions and expectations--which is also extended quite frequently to SOFFAS--to explain the nature of what is "trans" to people who are too lazy to google. My advice is that you only speak with those you like talking to about it, and if you start feeling weird about how a person might be prying or being phobic or just being ghastly (some people think it is perfectly acceptable to say whatever they feel about a transition without any thought as to how it might impact a person), nip that one in the bud until they can learn to speak to you in a way that is unoffensive and on your terms of what is comfortable. I have had to flat up tell a friend at work that I don't dissect my love life with anyone when she was prodding about Dylan and I. People are curious and nosy, and if they are respectful, that's fine. But flip in your head when the questions come and ask: would I ever say such things to them about their identity? Their relationship? Their loved ones? Set up that boundary, hon-because folks can say the darnedest of things! Also, as many are saying here, T doesn't hit your guy overnight and make him a monster. That is transphobia at work, and it's a bunch of crap. This whole "rage" and "moody" bullshit is simply that. You can pull that up in research if need be. I would also recommend reading and talking with folks in the medical community--the doctors and therapists out there who are awesomely trans supportive. You are also welcome to PM me whenever. If you ever want to chat with Dylan and I in any other way, too, because he's a great resource, you just let us know.

09-21-2010, 08:47 PM	#20
Zora77 Junior Member How Do You Identify?: Queer Femme Preferred Pronoun?: She Join Date: May 2010 Location: San Francisco Posts: 58 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 72 Thanked 121 Times in 37 Posts Rep Power: 175635	A big THANK YOU to all of you for your insights and comments. It’s definitely food for thought and much appreciated! Also, great advice on joining a support group – which I will do once I mustered up some courage. I think in parts I’m just very unsure of what to expect because I have seen so many changes in him already since we met about a year ago. If he decides to take T, it looks like I’d have to deal with possible mood or even personality changes, being perceived as a straight couple, some hairy discussions and hey, if the sex drive would get any higher than it already is, I might have to take some myself to keep up Not taking T, I imagine, must be even harder because you stake out your spot outside of the comfort zone of society and have to deal with constant confusion and possibly also hostility. I’m curious to learn more about how that route is traveled. I can imagine it sucks to be perceived and related to differently than you feel and want most of the time – and as the partner I would cringe and get upset when witnessing this kind of ignorance. Part of me almost hopes he’ll take T – and in thinking that, I feel confronted with my own desire not to rock the boat or just fit in. But he is concerned about T being associated with a higher risk of cancer and I’d rather see him healthy and not fit in that accepting that risk. No idea what will happen - but then again, who can ever know what to expect in any relationship anyway, right? And on some level I have always enjoyed challenging myself and others. Thanks again. It feels really good to hear that I’m not the only one thinking about these things.