"Butch" and "Femme" - Truly Antiquated Terms or More Marginalization?

[BullDog]

To each their own as far as how you id and who you are attracted to. However, I'm a stone butch. I am a lesbian. I don't understand where people get these narrow ideas about lesbians or lesbian sex. The fact that some heterosexuals may use the word lesbian in a derogatory way certainly doesn't stop me from being proud to be a lesbian.

[WILDCAT]

Originally Posted by BullDog

To each their own as far as how you id and who you are attracted to. However, I'm a stone butch. I am a lesbian. I don't understand where people get these narrow ideas about lesbians or lesbian sex. The fact that some heterosexuals may use the word lesbian in a derogatory way certainly doesn't stop me from being proud to be a lesbian.

That IS one example of what homophobia is about. Many queers have internalized homophobia. I had it myself when I was growing up, briefly! We were conditioned to feel badly about ourselves - for a multitude of reasons: "unnatural is it", for religious beliefs, etc... (Thus this gets projected from us onto others as well.) This is one thing that really is sad to me - the hate that comes from our own community, and the pain of denial. This is one of the MAIN reasons why I proudly use the term lesbian. I have nothing but pride for myself, my orientation, my lifestyle, my choice for loving another. I've come too far and have been through too much for me to change for someone/ANYONE else. Uh, uh. It ain't gonna happen. And any partner I may be with will feel just as strongly about this, in love and support - or we would be on two entirely different pages. And I don't believe as capable, thus... of fully being our best together then. (Just my wooden nickels worth there!)

And I respect that others need different types of compatibility and understanding, for what best compliments their "togetherness" and growth as a couple (or poly, etc...) I really do believe there is someone for everyone... and thank goodness we are not all "clones" of each other. And the times "change". Yes. They must. But, much will remain the same too. That's just the way it is. For we will keep what it is we want...

Otherwise, I'm fine with all self definitions and the new descriptors, ID's, whatever - in fact mine has changed throughout time as well. I would just hope that folks do things for the right reasons. And that respect is maintained... Some of this discussion has been truly mind boggling indeed, but it's showing what apparently needs to be shown. If you're saying something is yucky, for example - I'd check that out, and think before submitting. Love is a sensitive thing for many of us.

For the record, there is nothing MORE beautiful to ME than the scent and the taste of a woman. Hope that doesn't gross anyone out. How could I possibly apologize for that - on a site called Butch/Femme Planet? I realize it is a bit personal [for me] to post that, but I am proud of this as well. I think it is a very lovely part of my attraction and love for women. Actually, it makes me crazy insane filled with the most powerful sense of longing that I have EVER FELT! So, that is that. For me. And I'm sure a few others... possibly might be able to relate to this.

May we continue to move on in forward progress. So many thanks to some wonderful posts here and to the moderation.

Sincerely -
WILDCAT

*Who truly hopes everyone did have a wonderful F'n holiday. Honest.

[Beau]

Originally Posted by WILDCAT

That IS one example of what homophobia is about. Many queers have internalized homophobia. I had it myself when I was growing up, briefly! We were conditioned to feel badly about ourselves - for a multitude of reasons: "unnatural is it", for religious beliefs, etc... (Thus this gets projected from us onto others as well.) This is one thing that really is sad to me - the hate that comes from our own community, and the pain of denial. This is one of the MAIN reasons why I proudly use the term lesbian. I have nothing but pride for myself, my orientation, my lifestyle, my choice for loving another. I've come too far and have been through too much for me to change for someone/ANYONE else. Uh, uh. It ain't gonna happen. And any partner I may be with will feel just as strongly about this, in love and support - or we would be on two entirely different pages. And I don't believe as capable, thus... of fully being our best together then. (Just my wooden nickels worth there!)

And I respect that others need different types of compatibility and understanding, for what best compliments their "togetherness" and growth as a couple (or poly, etc...) I really do believe there is someone for everyone... and thank goodness we are not all "clones" of each other. And the times "change". Yes. They must. But, much will remain the same too. That's just the way it is. For we will keep what it is we want...

Otherwise, I'm fine with all self definitions and the new descriptors, ID's, whatever - in fact mine has changed throughout time as well. I would just hope that folks do things for the right reasons. And that respect is maintained... Some of this discussion has been truly mind boggling indeed, but it's showing what apparently needs to be shown. If you're saying something is yucky, for example - I'd check that out, and think before submitting. Love is a sensitive thing for many of us.

For the record, there is nothing MORE beautiful to ME than the scent and the taste of a woman. Hope that doesn't gross anyone out. How could I possibly apologize for that - on a site called Butch/Femme Planet? I realize it is a bit personal [for me] to post that, but I am proud of this as well. I think it is a very lovely part of my attraction and love for women. Actually, it makes me crazy insane filled with the most powerful sense of longing that I have EVER FELT! So, that is that. For me. And I'm sure a few others... possibly might be able to relate to this.

May we continue to move on in forward progress. So many thanks to some wonderful posts here and to the moderation.

Sincerely -
WILDCAT

*Who truly hopes everyone did have a wonderful F'n holiday. Honest.

Your most eloquent words speak my truth and my experience as well.

[Apocalipstic]

I apologize, I have not read the last few pages, so if I am being redundant, just ignore me.

I have never on this or any other site made fun of what anyone else does in bed nor said it is gross, or disgusting. It freaks me out when people I consider friends think it is OK to say how I and other Lesbians have sex is disgusting.

I get that people some of you may have slept with might have said to you things that hurt, but it was not ME.

This is not a war where if someone kills a Palestinian, then the Palestinians feel the need to kill an Israeli and vice versa. This is, or should be, friends treating each other with respect.

Again, my apologies to the mods if I am repeating what has already been decided. Had to get it out of my system.

[WILDCAT]

Originally Posted by apocalipstic

I apologize, I have not read the last few pages, so if I am being redundant, just ignore me.

I have never on this or any other site made fun of what anyone else does in bed nor said it is gross, or disgusting. It freaks me out when people I consider friends think it is OK to say how I and other Lesbians have sex is disgusting.

I get that people some of you may have slept with might have said to you things that hurt, but it was not ME.

This is not a war where if someone kills a Palestinian, then the Palestinians feel the need to kill an Israeli and vice versa. This is, or should be, friends treating each other with respect.

Again, my apologies to the mods if I am repeating what has already been decided. Had to get it out of my system.

Yeah, that is kinda old news here now Apocalipstic. (Just kiddin' ya!)

I was only posting this last time, about folks being sensitive before submitting because of this kind of thing - sure, and just gave the "example" I did. However, I was coming back primarily after reading that someone stated that they didn't like the word lesbian because heterosexuals use it so negatively. So, that was pointed out earlier in this thread, about "homophobia". I thought it was overlooked a bit then. I felt that was a good example to reiterate now again. We do things sometimes without even knowing it. Not that this is what the topic is all about here, no - of course not.

I think the bush has been beat here for now though. (No pun intended!! OK, maybe!!)

Choices for "terms" used are just that. I am proud of my choices right now. They will not fit everyone like they do me.

I was clearly hurt the other day, seeing how this thread was going. I stated as much. I'm glad folks moved through things otherwise. Grateful I am, actually. I really appreciate some wonderful and thoughtful - as well as very supportive posts. Proves we "can" move forward... yes?
__

So, how were YOUR holidays? I really get stressed out at family gatherings. And then to some of us, THIS is our family - can you just imagine! (I'm in a humorous mood here, thank goodness!! Please, do NOT be alarmed.)

Peace now! Be proud of who and what you are. We all should. I just wish for some consideration regarding some of these sensitive topics on a butch/femme site. I would never write about two males together and say anything negative either, or a heterosexual couple - any dynamic of folks together. Love is love. Sexual attraction is that... And we have a very interesting and diverse population here. There are no hard and fast "anything"...

So, I don't need to keep saying that I am fine with everyone else's self-perception or ID, or what-ever the heck. I'm just going to be sure mine is respected, well - I will keep trying anyway, should the need come up.

SMILE!

Have a great day.

WILDCAT

*Sorry for errors and hope this makes sense. I am sleep "mixed up" right now.

[Apocalipstic]

Originally Posted by WILDCAT

Yeah, that is kinda old news here now Apocalipstic. (Just kiddin' ya!)

I was only posting this last time, about folks being sensitive before submitting because of this kind of thing - sure, and just gave the "example" I did. However, I was coming back primarily after reading that someone stated that they didn't like the word lesbian because heterosexuals use it so negatively. So, that was pointed out earlier in this thread, about "homophobia". I thought it was overlooked a bit then. I felt that was a good example to reiterate now again. We do things sometimes without even knowing it. Not that this is what the topic is all about here, no - of course not.

I think the bush has been beat here for now though. (No pun intended!! OK, maybe!!)

Choices for "terms" used are just that. I am proud of my choices right now. They will not fit everyone like they do me.

I was clearly hurt the other day, seeing how this thread was going. I stated as much. I'm glad folks moved through things otherwise. Grateful I am, actually. I really appreciate some wonderful and thoughtful - as well as very supportive posts. Proves we "can" move forward... yes?
__

So, how were YOUR holidays? I really get stressed out at family gatherings. And then to some of us, THIS is our family - can you just imagine! (I'm in a humorous mood here, thank goodness!! Please, do NOT be alarmed.)

Peace now! Be proud of who and what you are. We all should. I just wish for some consideration regarding some of these sensitive topics on a butch/femme site. I would never write about two males together and say anything negative either, or a heterosexual couple - any dynamic of folks together. Love is love. Sexual attraction is that... And we have a very interesting and diverse population here. There are no hard and fast "anything"...

So, I don't need to keep saying that I am fine with everyone else's self-perception or ID, or what-ever the heck. I'm just going to be sure mine is respected, well - I will keep trying anyway, should the need come up.

SMILE!

Have a great day.

WILDCAT

*Sorry for errors and hope this makes sense. I am sleep "mixed up" right now.

I am a wreck after the holidays too and soooo glad its almost over!

I really was not jumping off your fabulous post! Just saying what I had percolating (sp?) for days.

I agree completely love is love and I am so glad there is so much of it here! love, love loveeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

I hope you get caught up on your rest and over the holidays quickly!



Jen