When Will There Be Guaranteed Freedom From Persecution To Be Religious

[Cin]

I am not unaware of the dangers inherent in what is considered moral reasoning. So much damage has been done in the name of morality. Almost as much as has been done in the name of god. But can I hold morality or god morally responsible for the immorality often found in moral judgments?

Humanity itself is in dire need of a more socially conscious morality.

When talking to others it is most effective to use language that is meaningful to them. Right now in the U.S., and in Canada as well, that language is morality (I just read an article yesterday about whether Justin Trudeau is Catholic or Catholic enough to speak to students at a Catholic school), albeit the kind of morality heavily weighted with religious overtones.

When I speak of taking back morality from the exclusive use of the religious and incorporating it into the dialogue used by those of us with a social rather than religious conscience and agenda, I don’t mean to imply that a consideration of morality is a new idea for non religious people, nor am I even referring exclusively to non religious people. I just mean I’ve noticed that publicly and politically the moral high ground is often occupied by those of the religious right and those of the GOP while everyone else scrambles around trying to copy the same basic moral language. Which is difficult to do when one comes down on, what is deemed by the Right, as the morally incorrect side of an issue.

Often the answer to this dilemma has been to shy away from conversations or political speeches fraught with moral righteousness. While I tend to agree this would be most welcome, it will not be the tact of the religious right or the conservative party. So I advocate an about face. I am suggesting challenging the validity of their claims of moral superiority. I can think of endless ways that the Right does not act in ways that could ever by any measuring stick be considered moral, many that have been articulated quite clearly in this thread alone.

It would be in everyone’s best interest, religious or not, if our leaders and law makers who are possessed of a social conscience over a religious one would stop aping the tired morality spewed by the Right and begin, not only to clearly illuminate the moral weaknesses of the Right and show that the emperor is indeed without clothes, but to lead us toward a more just and equitable society.

[ruffryder]

Originally Posted by Miss Tick

I am not unaware of the dangers inherent in what is considered moral reasoning. So much damage has been done in the name of morality. Almost as much as has been done in the name of god. But can I hold morality or god morally responsible for the immorality often found in moral judgments?

Humanity itself is in dire need of a more socially conscious morality.

When talking to others it is most effective to use language that is meaningful to them. Right now in the U.S., and in Canada as well, that language is morality (I just read an article yesterday about whether Justin Trudeau is Catholic or Catholic enough to speak to students at a Catholic school), albeit the kind of morality heavily weighted with religious overtones.

No doubt someone speaking about religion will get debated for and against about whether they "qualify" to speak on the subject, especially to children.

If you don't mind Miss, who is Justin Trudeau? Why is he getting heat about speaking to students at a Catholic school?

This reminded me of the members at the Vatican or even churches across the world being so religious and so moral, but yet they are found guilty of child sexual abuse.

[EnderD_503]

Originally Posted by ruffryder

If you don't mind Miss, who is Justin Trudeau? Why is he getting heat about speaking to students at a Catholic school?

He is the son of Pierre Trudeau and an MP in Papineau. He's also an excellent writer, as is his brother, Sasha Trudeau.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...4/?from=sec431

[ruffryder]

Thanks Ender

In that article I find this,

“First of all, my question, is: who is the faith police? Who are the people who are supposed to be judging somebody's faith?” said Trevor Digby, department chair of Canadian and world studies at Holy Cross Secondary School. “Is that not a private matter? When we invite speakers, we don't go out and do a police record check on their faith, unless they've done something outrageous.”


“We haven't called them to speak about a theological issue, we've called them to speak on inspiring young people to international service and their place in leadership now in society and make a better world,” Mr. Digby said. “That our minister of Parliament would have a problem with that I think speaks more about him than about Justin Trudeau.”

I say good grief. Let The guy speak. He is an inspiration for even wanting to go speak to kids in my book.

[Glenn]

Pardon me Miss Tick; Are you asking for signs and wonders? Even Jesus Christ could'nt teach us successfully, while on Earth, what you ask of mankind's mere logic and reasoning abililties regarding the true nature of God.

[Apocalipstic]

Even in a thread about persecution for not being religious, we are falling into discussing it all from a Christian standpoint and using Christian language.

Our calendar, holidays, tv programing....so much of our culture. It KILLS me when I turn on the History Channel and they use the Bible as a historical textbook. Christian bias is definitely there in media.

I actually know people who think Atheists kill children.

We don't actually know definitely and concretely that Jesus ever even existed.

[Apocalipstic]

Ender, thank you for what you said about Honoring Parents and child abuse. I run up on this a lot.

[Estella]

Originally Posted by Apocalipstic

I actually know people who think Atheists kill children.

We don't actually know definitely and concretely that Jesus ever even existed.

Well, I think we're all aware that, "Feminism is a socialist, anti-family, political movement that encourages women to leave their husbands, kill their children, practice witchcraft, destroy capitalism, and become lesbians." According to Pat Robertson, at any rate.

I subscribed to a certain degree of skepticism about Jesus' existence at one time, but it seems to me that there are really quite a few sources that confirm his place as an historical figure. Of course, I do not believe that he was the son of any sort of god. What I do believe is that Jesus was a culturally important philosopher who paid rather too high a price for suggesting that we might all want to be nice to one another now and again. But I don't need to believe in a sky-god to share that philosophy.

[Cin]

Originally Posted by Apocalipstic

I actually know people who think Atheists kill children.

Well, that's not exactly right. Most of us eat them.

They are delicious breaded and deep fried. And maybe a little ketchup.

[Cin]

Originally Posted by Apocalipstic

Even in a thread about persecution for not being religious, we are falling into discussing it all from a Christian standpoint and using Christian language.

It's probably all the morality talk that causes it. I know i have this crazy idea that people should walk the walk and not just talk a good game. So I want all these moral god fearing political leaders to take responsibility for their immoral actions.

But there are other things to talk about surely.