Butches and Body Image - Let's Talk About It

[Parker]

Yeah, I dont give a fuck about people staring at me in the bathrooms anymore either. Hell, I have had women physically try to keep me out of the bathroom, thinking I was a man (I was about to offer to show her my tits when she realized her mistake and let me pass). Usually, I just ignore everyone, do my thing, and get out; but if they want to stare at me, I'll stare right back - after a pretty obvious look down at my rather large breasts for effect.

I am not male ID'd or trans &/or trying to pass, so I wouldnt use the men's bathroom unless it was the only one available &/or it was some sort of a bathroom emergency .... I dont want to spend time in their stinky, nasty bathrooms unless I absolutely have to!


Oh, and speaking of family bathrooms, the VA here has women, men, and unisex bathrooms all over the place - I think in large places and newly built places it might start becoming the "norm."

[Queerasfck]

Originally Posted by Parker

I am not male ID'd or trans &/or trying to pass, so I wouldnt use the men's bathroom unless it was the only one available &/or it was some sort of a bathroom emergency .... I dont want to spend time in their stinky, nasty bathrooms unless I absolutely have to!

I try to avoid the use of any public restroom whenever possible. I have to say I do believe women's restrooms can be just as nasty and unsanitary as men's restrooms.

[Parker]

Originally Posted by Queerasfck

I try to avoid the use of any public restroom whenever possible. I have to say I do believe women's restrooms can be just as nasty and unsanitary as men's restrooms.

True - especially when they make a mess on the seat.

But to me, men's are just nastier - maybe bc they miss the bowl a lot & their mess ends up on the floor - not sure, just how it feels to me. Maybe I've just been around some nasty mens.

[ButchEire]

Always been the opposite in my experience. Women's bathrooms are much dirtier than men's. What's weird to me is that I get how men "miss" the toilet but can't figure out how women can't hit the two pointer,lol.

Originally Posted by Parker

True - especially when they make a mess on the seat.

But to me, men's are just nastier - maybe bc they miss the bowl a lot & their mess ends up on the floor - not sure, just how it feels to me. Maybe I've just been around some nasty mens.

[girl_dee]

i personally like to take my butch into the same stall with me

[Parker]

Originally Posted by ButchEire

What's weird to me is that I get how men "miss" the toilet but can't figure out how women can't hit the two pointer,lol.

LOL

Probably from hovering over the bowl so as to avoid touching the seat and catching imaginary diseases.

[Dude]

I have encountered many a scared woman confused by me.
Security has been called ,etc.

The bottom line is they are reacting from a fear place and really
who can blame them for that.
Yes, they might become rude with their non thought out reactions
when encountering some of us but we get to think about our reactions
to them. They are women in a place that most times feels safe to them.

Never has my reaction or response been to show them what I have under my shirt.

I guess reading that response over and over through the years bugs
the shit out of me.
I get the hurt and the anger of being questioned but I dont get the threat of
flashing tits or anything else as a well thought out response.
They are surprised by us but we get to think about it.
Cut them some fucking slack already.

speaking as someone who's done some janitorial
work in the past
all people have the ability to be equally disgusting.
and men are not the only sex who enjoy some reading material either

[Gemme]

Originally Posted by Parker

LOL

Probably from hovering over the bowl so as to avoid touching the seat and catching imaginary diseases.

Not so imaginary things are able to be caught, however. I totally get the hovering, but really wish they'd just use the damn toilet seat cover or, if there's not one, put tissue on the seat.

All bathrooms that don't have an attendant are icky.

[CherylNYC]

Originally Posted by Gemme

Not so imaginary things are able to be caught, however. I totally get the hovering, but really wish they'd just use the damn toilet seat cover or, if there's not one, put tissue on the seat.

All bathrooms that don't have an attendant are icky.

A friend once caught ringworm from a toilet seat. Just sayin'.

My aim is true.

[Okiebug61]

I'm curious to know where those who have had trouble using a public restroom live. I am in the only totally Red State and while there are and always will be issues. I have never seen these vicious things happen. It's totally disturbing and if nothing else knowing the locations will help me keep an open eye if I ever visit any of the said locations.

[Parker]

Originally Posted by Okiebug61

I'm curious to know where those who have had trouble using a public restroom live. I am in the only totally Red State and while there are and always will be issues. I have never seen these vicious things happen. It's totally disturbing and if nothing else knowing the locations will help me keep an open eye if I ever visit any of the said locations.

I dont think it's limited to any specific locations - I've lived in a lot of different states (IL, OK, CO, CA, MS, WA) and driven through even more on my way to one place or another and I've encountered everything from stares, to shocked looks while they check the sign on the door, to stopping their friend or security to say loudly that "there's a man in there", to saying something directly to me, to physically trying to keep me from entering.


Also, the urge to lift one's shirt in an effort to be seen as the woman that you are is a natural urge. Would I have really done it? No, of course not. But the urge is still there because I belong there just as much as any woman does - it's my space too; and the fact that it's considered a safe space for feminine looking women but not masculine looking women is sad to me. That's really all I had on that issue.

[DapperButch]

Originally Posted by Parker

Probably from hovering over the bowl so as to avoid touching the seat and catching imaginary diseases.

Originally Posted by Gemme

Not so imaginary things are able to be caught, however. I totally get the hovering, but really wish they'd just use the damn toilet seat cover or, if there's not one, put tissue on the seat.

"If you sprinkle when you tingle, please be neat and wipe the seat".

- Sign humorously posted in Dapper's grandmother's bathroom.

[DapperButch]

Originally Posted by DapperButch

"If you sprinkle when you tingle, please be neat and wipe the seat".

- Sign humorously posted in Dapper's grandmother's bathroom.

Ooops! I meant tinkle! (thanks Ezee).

[Jess]

I always wonder why every conversation regarding being butch and self image goes to the toilet.

I think at least for me, because it is that one place out in the world that constantly reminds me of just how "different" I am from "most" women. My hair is different.. my clothes are different, my demeanor is definitely different and it is a rarity that it is not pointed out to me when I step into a multi-stalled bathroom.

My struggles with body image started so early on that I can't even pinpoint when or how it began. My mom tells me of my crying myself to sleep when I was three because I couldn't pee out of my belly button. Apparently I saw my dad standing up to pee and thought that must be how you do it.

I have body dysphoria/ gender dysphoria in that I truly have a disconnect in "loving" the package I came in. It is a hard thing to describe as I don't necessarily want to change genders, I just don't deal well with the "norms" society has placed on mine. I am a masculine entity, no doubt and being in a visually female shell has been a very interesting thing to say the least.

I struggle with my size at times. I have a small frame and for many being small is equated to being weak. Many only view larger butches as "real" butches. For some , yes, size does matter.. LOL. It's hard to bulk up as the female body distributes weight differently and requires much more focused exercise to put mass in the "right" areas. Well, frankly, I am getting older and unless a miracle happens, that just isn't gonna work. I am by no means a weak person and I know this clearly. However, when it comes down to "body image" , I can allow myself to buy into the BS a little too often.

I am learning not to compare myself in the negative. I am learning to look at other butches clearly and when I do compare it is about internal issues. It is about whether or not they exemplify traits I respect or not. This is how I am seeing role models or folks I want to avoid. I tend to keep people at arms length and am trying to allow a few more in. Slowly and very selectively. I am reading people on different levels than I have in the past and am able to see beyond whatever facades or armor we put up and that is how I am seeing myself more clearly. I am not ready to put down my own shields.. and honestly, I know that only a handful of people will ever truly "know" me or my struggles. my insecurities.. or my true strengths.

I am not sure how many other butches feel similar, but I know for me it can be a painfully lonely path at times. It can also be an incredible journey living this life in the body we were given and helping other folks see beyond it. It is fraught with obstacles almost daily. I just keep moving through them. I hope everyone else does too. I know we have lost so many butch women to depression, angst, suicide, isolation and it breaks my heart. There are times when the world gets really ugly and all we can do is look to one another for the encouragement to keep on keeping on. I hope to be that encouragement.

Thanks for the topic.

[girl_dee]

Originally Posted by Gemme

Not so imaginary things are able to be caught, however. I totally get the hovering, but really wish they'd just use the damn toilet seat cover or, if there's not one, put tissue on the seat.

All bathrooms that don't have an attendant are icky.

and what amazes me is the baby changing station.

Okie it doesn't matter where you are because narrow minded stupid people are everywhere. I've been with a butch twice when the bathroom thing happened.. once in Oregon and once in Alabama. Both times my partner was confronted by males who made snide comments about the butch being in the *wrong bathroom* as they exited or entered and in a completely confrontational manner.

[Okiebug61]

Originally Posted by Cajun_dee

Okie it doesn't matter where you are because narrow minded stupid people are everywhere. I've been with a butch twice when the bathroom thing happened.. once in Oregon and once in Alabama. Both times my partner was confronted by males who made snide comments about the butch being in the *wrong bathroom* as they exited or entered and in a completely confrontational manner.

I was just curious. Being from Oklahoma we don't have a lot of positive things going on for our community. Red and I went see Melissa E a few years back and I saw more Lesbians in one place than I had seen in years. There were many hard core butches and I never once saw anyone having problems with the bathroom issue. Maybe I don't keep my eyes open well enough,for I would not stand by and let this happen If I were present. It just saddens me when someone has to be nervous, scared or anything else when they need to go to the bathroom.

[Dude]

I geuss for me, I dont take it so personal anymore.
Of course it's awkward and I'd prefer that it did not happen but
It's not really my issue how someone interprets my gender.
Showing someone proof of what I am is not a natural urge ,for me.

Let's say grandma and maybe your neice were in stalls 3 and 4 ,
someone enters bathroom who you read as male.
What would your response be to them?
Have I been offended and embaressed? yes ,of course
I had one lady peek over the stall even.

To me what is "totally disturbing" is being beaten because then
it is personal. I think it would be interesting to do a poll on the
areas in which this has happened to people.
I feel fortunate to have only once experienced some teenage
kids screaming queers out their window while walking with a girlfriend
down the street 20 years ago.