Do you *want* people to assume you're a man?

[Corkey]

A lines or tanks are perfectly acceptable.

The thing with assuming is this, it presupposes, often wrongly so. I'm sure everyone has heard of the quote, "to assume makes an ass out of you and me." Don't assume, if one doesn't know ask, respectfully.

[The_Lady_Snow]

Originally Posted by CharmingButch25

I apologize if that reference offended you , I didn't realize but I dont like them being called that either I just didn't know what else they are called, tank tops I guess hope that's better , id take the reference out of my post but cant from my phone.

Hi

I'm gonna help you out since no one else has, the t-shirts are called A Line shirts, tank tops, or better yet Wife Pleasers

OOPS I'm on my phone didn't see where folks helped you out!!!!


Thanks everyone!

[CharmingButch25]

Thank you Lady, I really didn't mean to offend anyone.

[The_Lady_Snow]

Originally Posted by CharmingButch25

Thank you Lady, I really didn't mean to offend anyone.

Hang in there CB! It's rough but you'll catch on quick!

[Daywalker]

I don't 'pass' unless someone thinks
they teleported back to Woodstock.

[Parker]

Originally Posted by stephfromMIT

In my thread about my doctor esperience, I made mention of the fact that if you saw me, you might assume I'm male. I was asked if I liked the idea of "passing". I replied that I hate that I can/do "pass". What does everyone else think?

I absolutely hate it. It makes me feel invisible as a butch, but even more and in the grander scheme of things, it makes me feel invisible as a woman.

Just because it is called the men's department, it doesnt mean men are the only ones who own the right to wear the clothing, nor do men own masculinity.

Could I grow out my hair and wear more feminine clothing with makeup and earrings? Sure - but I would still be mistaken for a man, just a man in drag. Even when I was in high school and had long hair, wore earrings, some makeup, and whatever clothes my mom made me wear, people *still* thought I was a man.

It isnt about clothes and it bothers me that people still judge others based on their clothing or whether or not they wear a hat - which is what I get with the stuttered apologies when the person who called me sir stops and takes an actual look at me, seeing that I am, in fact, a woman.

So no, I dont like that I pass as a man 90% of the time, but I am not about to change how I look, dress, stand, or walk just to appease the people who think I should dress, act, look, walk, etc a certain way so that I will be perceived by them to be the woman that I already am.

Btw - this is not at all directed at you, CharmingButch - I would have posted about clothing, etc whether you mentioned it or not - it's the world that sees me this way based on the clothing I wear, not you - we've never even met. lol

[The_Lady_Snow]

Steph, I find it funny (not in a ha ha way) that you've not shared your experience on how you feels when mistaken for a man.

How come?

[stephfromMIT]

Fair enough. When it happens, and it doesn't happen often, I just gently correct them, by telling them my name.

[The_Lady_Snow]

Originally Posted by stephfromMIT

Fair enough. When it happens, and it doesn't happen often, I just gently correct them, by telling them my name.

Right?!


That's the polite thing to do


Thanks!

[*Anya*]

Originally Posted by Okiebug61

I know this has been brought up before but I'll say it here. Referring to your tee-shirts as W**B###%# is not cool.

In another thread I saw a butch call them wife-lovers.

I think that is kind of cute!

[morningstar55]

When I and electrocell were together.....
if I had a dime everyone someone calls.hm a him, he, sir , my husband id b a millionaire ha
and I cant speak for hm , but it never ever bothered me to be around hm when ths happens .. I always felt comfy with hm .
I been put on the spot a lot of times others askng me y cell looks the way he does... my answer
He was born that way.
That usually ends the conversation

[morningstar55]

CrAps spider laThe PHONE!!!'

[jac]

I am continuously mistaken for male.... until they see my chest area. Then they backstep and apologize and blah blah blah. I don't dress nor act the part to be seen as male. I am me and I walk the streets as the person that I am comfortable being. If this is what most perceive to be male, then there ya go.... It doesn't bother me in the least to be called sir, buddy or male. I answer to any of it. I leave the interpretation of what is seen to the individual. If it makes the other person more comfortable to see me as male then fine, or female then fine. I know I am a female. I know I appear to be male.

Do I "want" people to assume I am a man? It really doesn't bother me in the least. I've never felt icky about it or bad, sad angry, in fact there are times it feels kinda good. Actually more often than not (when it happens).

[The_Lady_Snow]

Originally Posted by morningstar55

When I and electrocell were together.....
if I had a dime everyone someone calls.hm a him, he, sir , my husband id b a millionaire ha
and I cant speak for hm , but it never ever bothered me to be around hm when ths happens .. I always felt comfy with hm .
I been put on the spot a lot of times others askng me y cell looks the way he does... my answer
He was born that way.
That usually ends the conversation

I can see where that would be comfy if said butch identified as man or is man (self-made ) etc.


But if said butch didn't then a polite correction is gonna happen because people either forget or weren't taught that masculinity is not for just "man".


Butch woman is a perfect example of female masculinity at it's finest, that's where we go wrong with that whole gender assigning crap!!

[Ginger]

StephFromMIT,

I've heard people outside the GLBT community ask questions like, "If you like masculine women, why aren't you with a man?" or "Why do they dress like that? Do they want to be men?"

To me, your question, "Do you want people to assume you're a man?" is kind of in that category. It's a question I would never have thought to ask, myself, and have never heard one LGBT person ask another, so it really caught my eye.

Steph, have you known butch women (who were not trans), who wanted people to assume they were men?

It would be interesting to hear about that.

I have never known a butch woman who wanted people to think she's a man.

And so far, no one responding on this thread has said she wants people to assume she's a man, though some have said that when it happens, they aren't bothered.

Thank you for answering my question, above.

Scout

[Corkey]

Although I didn't say so in so many words, I would like to be seen for who I am, will it happen, more than likely not.

[DaddyNik12]

your welcome Charming

[Kelt]

Interesting thread

I am seeing two types of answers
a) what do we want
b) what do we get

Ok, a third
c) how do we feel about the match/mismatch between the two

I'm enjoying seeing the variety in the answers so far. I'll toss in my two cents with the up front codicil that I am only relating my opinion and fully respect the opinions of others that differ from mine.

What I want for myself is to just be a person. No gender label need be applied, no preferred pronouns. Just a person/human/being. A while back someone else coined the term gender-free and I like it. I happily answer to things like my name, or even "Hey you!"

Yeah well, we don't live in that world. What I get labeled by others seems to be as dependent on location as much as anything else. I noticed this especially on a road trip I took by myself last summer. Where I live now has a high percentage of gay population, very liberal politics, and folks are used to looking before speaking. I am usually addressed as female. When I was out driving through a variety different towns of varying sizes and political climates, mileage varied. I chose a route of "blue roads", two lane highways with some mid-sized and many small to tiny towns along the way. My experience was that the mid sized towns yielded the most blunder type incidences of being called Sir and if noticed we would just have a bit of a laugh. (I try to put people at easy and really don't care anyway). The small towns, pop. over say 1000, were where I encountered the most real confusion and the folks seemed defensive, even if I said nothing, and a couple of times I encountered open hostility. I found it interesting in light of that, the tiny towns pop. less than 500 down to 39, seemed to find my appearance totally normal. I think maybe because these were ranch and farm towns where everyone was in "work" (male) clothes and no one thought twice about it. Even my crew cut didn't phase anyone and I was referred to as female. Of course this only applied to this one person on a trip that only covered three states and one province.

So, for me it varies. As far as match/mismatch goes, they both kind of bother me because I don't see a need for assigning gender in general public settings. Is "Good morning miss, ma'am, sir, fella" somehow better or more appropriate than just "Good morning"?

Recognizing I am probably in the minority on this, just wanted to toss my hat in the ring.

[stephfromMIT]

Island-I have many Militia teamates who are butch, though I don't think they male ID.

[Corkey]

Originally Posted by Kelt

Interesting thread

I am seeing two types of answers
a) what do we want
b) what do we get

Ok, a third
c) how do we feel about the match/mismatch between the two

I'm enjoying seeing the variety in the answers so far. I'll toss in my two cents with the up front codicil that I am only relating my opinion and fully respect the opinions of others that differ from mine.

What I want for myself is to just be a person. No gender label need be applied, no preferred pronouns. Just a person/human/being. A while back someone else coined the term gender-free and I like it. I happily answer to things like my name, or even "Hey you!"

Yeah well, we don't live in that world. What I get labeled by others seems to be as dependent on location as much as anything else. I noticed this especially on a road trip I took by myself last summer. Where I live now has a high percentage of gay population, very liberal politics, and folks are used to looking before speaking. I am usually addressed as female. When I was out driving through a variety different towns of varying sizes and political climates, mileage varied. I chose a route of "blue roads", two lane highways with some mid-sized and many small to tiny towns along the way. My experience was that the mid sized towns yielded the most blunder type incidences of being called Sir and if noticed we would just have a bit of a laugh. (I try to put people at easy and really don't care anyway). The small towns, pop. over say 1000, were where I encountered the most real confusion and the folks seemed defensive, even if I said nothing, and a couple of times I encountered open hostility. I found it interesting in light of that, the tiny towns pop. less than 500 down to 39, seemed to find my appearance totally normal. I think maybe because these were ranch and farm towns where everyone was in "work" (male) clothes and no one thought twice about it. Even my crew cut didn't phase anyone and I was referred to as female. Of course this only applied to this one person on a trip that only covered three states and one province.

So, for me it varies. As far as match/mismatch goes, they both kind of bother me because I don't see a need for assigning gender in general public settings. Is "Good morning miss, ma'am, sir, fella" somehow better or more appropriate than just "Good morning"?

Recognizing I am probably in the minority on this, just wanted to toss my hat in the ring.

Gets it, and has been saying for a few years, we're all Human, that's my label, the rest is how I see myself, not how the world sees me.