The Femme Continuum: The "Highs" and "Lows" of Visibility

[kannon]

Originally Posted by ScandalAndy

I've been on the receiving end of that particular bit of poison more than once. I have to admit I haven't heard it as much now that I"m in my thirties, but it was common between 18 and 23 for me. I grew up in a very small town and was the only openly gay person up until about 4 years ago. Most people didn't understand and figured that the only way I would prefer women (especially butch women) over the local football hero was if there was something wrong with me. You'd be surprised what people can come up with to explain what is wrong with you.

I went to therapy for gender dysphoria. The therapist's first suggestion for me was, "why don't I try to dress more feminine?" Then this woman who stated she was originally from the North and that made her more liberal and open-minded said ALL lesbians were sexually molested and that's why they are lesbians. I asked so that's your theory? She said no, it's a fact. The sad part is she a helping professional.

[princessbelle]

You know I really hate it, but it seems some straight people feel the b/f dynamic (broad) is so complicated.

For instance, when coming "out" to people here in my local town, including my mom, my boss, my friends, it is one thing to get them to wrap their head around the fact i'm gay. It is a whole other discussion trying to clarify i am attracted to the butch id'd people.

I've heard "you can't be gay your so girly" or "you have to be bisexual, you look like a girl" and on and on, as i'm sure you all know.

I used to believe it needed this deep explanation down to the core of how i id and education on how others id. I still have a hard time understanding why that is so hard to "get", but it truly seems to be.

There are very few femmes where i live, and most parties i've attended or adult gay bars there seems to be 90-100% more butch ID'd people. I honestly thought something was wrong with me being gay and being feminine until i found these sites.

I remember once years ago i was at a gay party here in town, and i was the only femme there. I walked up to a group of people who were talking and immediately they stopped talking and just stared at me. I will never forget that. I felt so misplaced, so invalid, and so alone. I don't know if they thought i was straight, or they just thought i was weird because of how feminine i was. All i know is it hurt me. I remember going home that night and crying my eyes out because i just didn't feel like i fit in anywhere, not in the straight world and not in the gay world.

It is hard finally coming out and then to have to determine where you fit in the gay community is another mountain....or at least it was for me.

When i found the word femme and saw pictures online on the dash site of feminine women who embraced the way they looked and stood proud of the way they ID'd it was so liberating for me. I had found my place.

Over the last couple of years, not only do i feel like i fit in, but i've made some beautiful relationships with other femmes and have opened my heart to the differences even within the term "femme".

I no longer go to bed crying and feeling alone in this world. I may still be sort of alone in this city, but now i know who i am and that i DO fit in and i am not misplaced.

I am part of a wonderful, dynamic, strong, positive group of women, and that makes me proud.

[CherylNYC]

Originally Posted by kannon

I went to therapy for gender dysphoria. The therapist's first suggestion for me was, "why don't I try to dress more feminine?" Then this woman who stated she was originally from the North and that made her more liberal and open-minded said ALL lesbians were sexually molested and that's why they are lesbians. I asked so that's your theory? She said no, it's a fact. The sad part is she a helping professional.

Whoa! Just, whoa. Have you thought of reporting this person to the Medical Board?

whoa.

Every time I read something like this it just gets my blood boiling. I'm glad you managed to sort it out without her, uhhh, help.

[ScandalAndy]

Originally Posted by CherylNYC

Whoa! Just, whoa. Have you thought of reporting this person to the Medical Board?

whoa.

Every time I read something like this it just gets my blood boiling. I'm glad you managed to sort it out without her, uhhh, help.

AGREED!!!!!!! This person should be reported! That's horrible!!!

[AtLast]

Originally Posted by kannon

I went to therapy for gender dysphoria. The therapist's first suggestion for me was, "why don't I try to dress more feminine?" Then this woman who stated she was originally from the North and that made her more liberal and open-minded said ALL lesbians were sexually molested and that's why they are lesbians. I asked so that's your theory? She said no, it's a fact. The sad part is she a helping professional.

Reading this just makes me seethe! This so called "professional" probably has the same kinds of degrees and state approved licenses that I and many others that are in the field have.

I hate this! And I have to say that it isn't the first time I have read about or personally come across therapists like this. If this person really does hold a valid state license- REPORT (this is mal-practice/incompetence)!!! Sometimes therapists (depending on the state requirements and laws) can practice in a state without a professional license. Consequently, there is really no legal remedy for the harm that someone with this lack of knowledge and down right incompetence can do.

It is so important to check on the credentials of a therapist before seeing them. Also, go to your state's licensing board's website and see if non-licensed therapists are allowed to practice in your state in any form. In most states, even those with "in-active" status of their license cannot practice.

This is a very real problem and look at what can happen to people in our community when these idiots are out there practicing! You can also (in most states in the US), look up any prior infractions or mal-practice claims against a clinician. Plus, there is some good information on how to select a therapist written- and how to conduct pre-selection interview with a prospective therapist.

A fully licensed clinician has to have their state licensing registration number on all ads and business cards- you can look this number up on a state licensing board's website.

[kannon]

Originally Posted by AtLastHome

Reading this just makes me seethe! This so called "professional" probably has the same kinds of degrees and state approved licenses that I and many others that are in the field have.

I hate this! And I have to say that it isn't the first time I have read about or personally come across therapists like this. If this person really does hold a valid state license- REPORT (this is mal-practice/incompetence)!!! Sometimes therapists (depending on the state requirements and laws) can practice in a state without a professional license. Consequently, there is really no legal remedy for the harm that someone with this lack of knowledge and down right incompetence can do.

It is so important to check on the credentials of a therapist before seeing them. Also, go to your state's licensing board's website and see if non-licensed therapists are allowed to practice in your state in any form. In most states, even those with "in-active" status of their license cannot practice.

This is a very real problem and look at what can happen to people in our community when these idiots are out there practicing! You can also (in most states in the US), look up any prior infractions or mal-practice claims against a clinician. Plus, there is some good information on how to select a therapist written- and how to conduct pre-selection interview with a prospective therapist.

A fully licensed clinician has to have their state licensing registration number on all ads and business cards- you can look this number up on a state licensing board's website.

Unfortunately, I didn't report her. She claimed to be licensed and in good current standing with state licensing board.

Many of the LPCs are not required to take courses that address LGBT issues. However, they are supposed to be trained in ethics and diversity. So, I would hope to see a certain measure of understanding or recognition that people have their own unique personal experiences which shape who they are and how they perceive their world. She had none of that.

It is really scary thinking about some young, suicidal, easily influenced girl receiving counseling for her "homosexual" thoughts. This counselor may have her convinced that she was molested and only needs to resolve symptoms of PTSD to recover. It's a shame.

[ScandalAndy]

So how do you deal with the invisibility? Specifically, how do you combat it? it really brings me down when i'm assumed to be straight.

[blush]

Originally Posted by ScandalAndy

So how do you deal with the invisibility? Specifically, how do you combat it? it really brings me down when i'm assumed to be straight.

It depends on the situation and my level of investment in the person. It gets to me too, but I do enjoy the deer- in- the -headlights look when they figure it out. I wouldn't say that I combat it, just change their perception.

[Star Anise]

I am not particularly visible in day to day situations, I don't mind it too much most of the time, because my sexuality doesn't define me 24.7.

However one thing that I do find exciting is when I am talking to a sexy butch and she recognises the subtle prolonged eye contact and begins to notice that I am flirting with her.

[Sweet Bliss]

Originally Posted by ScandalAndy

Last night as I walked out to the parking lot there were two gorgeous butches chatting next to the security gate. As I walked by I smiled and made eye contact, and they quickly looked away. What the heck do I have to do, wear a rainbow t-shirt every day to get my point across? One of them I've seen a few times around the site but never get to talk to. *sigh* I'm sick to death of being categorized as one of the straight women who work here.

As I've gotten more "mature" (read as past 50) I have amazed myself at how much I've changed and stayed the same... Most folks see me as straight, and do a double take when they find out different. Which I find delightful, because it means at times I am completely invisible, (read ignored), which at times is extremely maddening. A friend commented to me once, "wow, men (bio) and women are both attracted to you? That must be wonderful!" And I'm thinking, not really, cause the Butch I want looks at me and treats me like his sister. So now when I see a Butch I'm interested in or other woman I'm attracted to for "whatever" (yes, i love all kinds of folks) if I were in your place approaching a "hottie" (whatever that means to you) I'd find a way to make sure that person "understands" that I'm liking what I'm seeing. So I get "ballsy" (so to speak) and make a comment, like for instance...

in the case of someone in uniform.... I might ask them to escort me to my car

or in the grocery store...... "excuse me, do you know anything about _____?"

or in other situations, a simple comment about their appearance usually breaks the ice.

Just a look from me does not do much, however if I wink, or do my "mmm, you look delicious" look + slow wicked smile, or after I pass by them, turn around for a second long look, I find it works more effectively then just eye contact. Trust me, honey, if you turn around for a better look, or stop and say something like, "Sugar, you MAKE that uniform...."... be sure and sashaye your hips, so when he/she watches you walk away, it's with interest....

Of course my favorite move is to cook something sweet for someone I have my eye on...... Like that hottie at Home Depot.... Lordie, I'm gonna faint if she ever ...... well, that's another thread....

Remember this mantra, "I am a sexy, delightful woman, (or what works for ya) and desirable, ....(you get the picture?)...." If you KNOW you are attracted to xyz, put that vibe out there, like "ya, I'm delicious!!"

Just my nickel today, do what you are comfortable with, put your personal spin on being your special self.

[ArkansasPiscesGrrl]

What a wonderful thread! You know, this is one of the reasons I signed on to this website!
I came out at a late age, at 49. Before that I was married twice. I always KNEW there was something about me, but for whatever reason, had to come out when I did.
I am tall, and I used to be a BBW. When I came across online boards for B/F topics, I knew I didn't FEEL like a butch, nor did I look anything like one. But then, with society's conditioning, I also didn't fir the mold or internal "picture" in my mind as to looking like a Femme. To *ME*, a femme was short, tiny, beautiful long nails and long hair, etc. At 5'11", I felt more like a bull in a china shop! I asked this friend once, she was this cute little boi, if I could be considered a femme. She just laughed and asked what ELSE I could think I was! DUH!
When I did come out, at 49 (looking totally white-bread Grandma look), I was desparate to "look the part". I cut my hair short, spiked it up, ANYTHING to "look" gay, or to be acknowledged as a lesbian.
I still get frustrated because I blend in and look "too straight", IE: I don't get acknowledged as gay. I say I don't set ANYONE'S gaydar off. Grrrr!

[The_Lady_Snow]

You know how straight girls different from us (Femmes)?

Soon as you have a conversation with us, our feminism, politics, acceptance of the diversity that surrounds us is spilled like paint on canvas through our words.

Straight gals not so much most of the time

[MsTinkerbelly]

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

You know how straight girls different from us (Femmes)?

Soon as you have a conversation with us, our feminism, politics, acceptance of the diversity that surrounds us is spilled like paint on canvas through our words.

Straight gals not so much most of the time

I could not have said it better myself Lady Snow! I am visable as a Femme only on two occasions...when I am with Kasey, and when I tell them like it is! LOL I have gotten much bolder in my old age, having been too shy for most of my life.

[Toughy]

I found this on Huff Po Lesbian section today. This seemed to be the best thread to put it in. It is about a year old.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/megan-...hp_ref=lesbian

Femme Invisibility
Posted: 01/28/2012 12:17 pm

If asked to think of a lesbian, most people's thoughts drift to the stereotypical image of a butch lesbian. It may come as a surprise to some that this is not the only type of lesbian that exists, oh no -- there are some who are "femmes." <snip>

[stepfordfemme]

Originally Posted by Toughy

I found this on Huff Po Lesbian section today. This seemed to be the best thread to put it in. It is about a year old.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/megan-...hp_ref=lesbian

Femme Invisibility
Posted: 01/28/2012 12:17 pm

If asked to think of a lesbian, most people's thoughts drift to the stereotypical image of a butch lesbian. It may come as a surprise to some that this is not the only type of lesbian that exists, oh no -- there are some who are "femmes." <snip>

Thanks for posting.

I enjoyed this article, except for one line.

The author used femme "AKA" sometimes known as lipstick lesbians. I struggle with this term too often being equivocated with femme. I understand why she wrote it and what she meant, it just was unnecessary IMHO.

Femmes preferences for mates should not be connected at all to the femme label/identification.

Anyone else have thoughts on it?

[Words]

Hated the article, not least of all because of the stereotyping inherent in the author's take on what constitutes femme.

For example...did she bother to ask the ten women whose photos were shown in the gallery if they consider themselves femme or did she simply assume that because they're pretty and wear dresses and make up that they couldn't possibly be anything but?

If anything, the article left me feeling even more invisible than I felt before.

Words

[stepfordfemme]

Originally Posted by Words

Hated the article, not least of all because of the stereotyping inherent in the author's take on what constitutes femme.

For example...did she bother to ask the ten women whose photos were shown in the gallery if they consider themselves femme or did she simply assume that because they're pretty and wear dresses and make up that they couldn't possibly be anything but?

If anything, the article left me feeling even more invisible than I felt before.

Words

Point well taken on the gallery (I hadn't even looked at the pictures)
Thank you for pointing that out.

Ironically in fact about half of them were tv characters that are played by straight (or not known to be out women). For example Santana from Glee, the girl from PLL, the two Grey's characters -Calizona

Blog style articles tend to be from an author's POV. And she also has started a submission project of pictures from self defined femmes on her blog.

Ladies, what experiences would you relay to the world if you were to write a Huff Post article on femme invisibility ?

[Ginger]

I guess I don't care if I'm invisible as a femme. I don't care what people I don't know, don't know about me.

And if people make assumptions about who I want to sleep with, I don't care about that, either. If they matter to me, I'll give them more information so they know me better. If they don't matter to me, I don't care if their assessment of me is inaccurate.

I can't relate to the pain of invisible femme-ness. And the way I feel about this, doesn't make me less of a femme, or a lesser femme. I'm just a femme who doesn't care if I'm the only one who knows it.

[starryeyes]

I could give 2 hoots if I am invisible in the straight world...though the reactions are interesting. It's in the gay world, I feel hurt. Our own community stereotypes us and can't recognize us. I hate being the "straight girl" with a butch partner, or an outsider of the community because "I'm not really gay". Bah!

But, when you do get recognized... It makes it so worth it!

[stepfordfemme]

Originally Posted by starryeyes

I could give 2 hoots if I am invisible in the straight world...though the reactions are interesting. It's in the gay world, I feel hurt. Our own community stereotypes us and can't recognize us. I hate being the "straight girl" with a butch partner, or an outsider of the community because "I'm not really gay". Bah!

But, when you do get recognized... It makes it so worth it!

I really want to echo this. I felt it most when I was coming out and was trying to find my place in the community. I never felt like I belonged and I felt like I stuck out. Gay boys thought I was just an unsure hag. Lesbians didn't welcome me because they thought I was either a straight girl, bi or experimenting

The "you're not really gay" used to hurt the most.

Now I just respond with "No, I'm just queer and fabulous." and flash a smile.

I own my femme. Visible or invisible