Sonoma County CA Separates Elderly Gay Couple & Sells All Their Possessions

[Kobi]

As presented, I have a hard time believing the story contains all the facts. Properly executed paperwork is rarely ignored. ple can not be "forced into nursing homes against their will".

Will be interesting to see the entire story.

[Corkey]

Um, sorry people can be forced into nursing homes, and are every day. People who have dementia, Alzheimer's and other mental and physical disorders. The person we bought our home from was forced to put her mother in a home, her mother was forced by the courts to go. Yes, it happens every single day.
The story may not have all the facts, it doesn't have to, it is a story. There is however a court date, an attorney, and an organization that do exist.

[Kobi]

Corky,

I have worked in health care for 30 years. People can not be "involuntarily committed" to a nursing home. Involuntary committment is a legal, mental health thing not a medical thing.

People can be coerced, prodded, persuaded etc. and this is usually because it is for their own well being i.e. not safe for them to be at home or alone or having an inadequate caretaker.

People who are unable to make these decisions for themselves require quardians and/or conservators, both court appointed and court accountable proceedings.

There is something big missing from this story or it deliberately used inflammatory language to piss people off.

Have done this work forever. You can NOT commit someone to a nursing home.

[Corkey]

Originally Posted by Kobi

Corky,

I have worked in health care for 30 years. People can not be "involuntarily committed" to a nursing home. Involuntary committment is a legal, mental health thing not a medical thing.

People can be coerced, prodded, persuaded etc. and this is usually because it is for their own well being i.e. not safe for them to be at home or alone or having an inadequate caretaker.

People who are unable to make these decisions for themselves require quardians and/or conservators, both court appointed and court accountable proceedings.

There is something big missing from this story or it deliberately used inflammatory language to piss people off.

Have done this work forever. You can NOT commit someone to a nursing home.

First off, the name is Corkey, and secondly in my own family my cousins mother in-law was FORCED into a nursing home, she didn't want to go, she fought not to go, but was FORCED by the courts to go. You weren't there, you have no clue how horrible it is to see this happen to a loved one.

[apretty]

Originally Posted by Kobi

Corky,

I have worked in health care for 30 years. People can not be "involuntarily committed" to a nursing home. Involuntary committment is a legal, mental health thing not a medical thing.

People can be coerced, prodded, persuaded etc. and this is usually because it is for their own well being i.e. not safe for them to be at home or alone or having an inadequate caretaker.

People who are unable to make these decisions for themselves require quardians and/or conservators, both court appointed and court accountable proceedings.

There is something big missing from this story or it deliberately used inflammatory language to piss people off.

Have done this work forever. You can NOT commit someone to a nursing home.

it's not a novel, there's bound to be some omitted facts. however, i'm wondering if you think that the omitted facts will lead to an alternate, 'happy ending', one not detailed here? do you think that a gay man doesn't die and his partner doesn't end up losing everything? (i don't)

[patrick_sdmn]

Originally Posted by Kobi

Corky,

I have worked in health care for 30 years. People can not be "involuntarily committed" to a nursing home. Involuntary committment is a legal, mental health thing not a medical thing..

Hi Kobi -

You can read the complaint that was filed (with all the names, dates, and details) on NCLR's site here: http://www.nclrights.org/site/DocSer...pdf?docID=7461

[MysticOceansFL]

It just goes to show we need to keep staying together for our rights and don't veer off from what our set goals are yes things like this will happen but I am sure abama is on the right path for us all. Everything takes time and its a slow process but in these times of crisis we need to pull together and stay focused it will happen one day for us it might not be as soon as we'd like it to be but it will!!!

[SuperFemme]

it IS rather amazing that making employee's follow proper protocol is a newly implemented thing.

seriously?

[Nat]

"In August 2008, before the partners could be reunited, Scull passed away after completing a photo album of the couple’s life for Greene."

This sentence is so sad.

[patrick_sdmn]

Originally Posted by Kobi

As presented, I have a hard time believing the story contains all the facts. Properly executed paperwork is rarely ignored. ple can not be "forced into nursing homes against their will".

Will be interesting to see the entire story.

Read the legal complaint and weep - it's heartbreaking.

http://www.nclrights.org/site/DocSer...pdf?docID=7461

[Waldo]

There is more to the story - of course there is because this is just the beginning.

The complaint is a legal allegation from the plaintiff against a series of defendants. No arguments have been made. No exhibits have been presented.

After reading the complaint quickly I have a better understanding of, seemingly, why things may have happened the way they did. BUT I don't KNOW why they did, nor will I ever know.

There are allegations of abuse from the defendants against the plaintiff in regard to the decedent. What if they were true? Does that change anything for your opinion of what happened?

If the plaintiff was abusing his partner of 20 years and the medical staff acted to protect the decedent from continued abuse and sold off property and belongings to pay for the care required... does that make it ok?

Again - I don't know what happened and I have not read every word, I'm just exercising my critical thinking skills in an effort to understand how and why this happened.

patrick_sdmn - you seem to be very passionate about this. Are you involved some how? Your profile says you're in Sonoma County and you just joined today and these five posts are the extent of your activity on the site. Would love to know more if you're willing to share.

[Jess]

Highlighted Waldo's comments in red that I wanted to address. My responses are in blue. I suck at this kind of stuff, so sorry if it is confusing.





[QUOTE=Waldo;88850]There is more to the story - of course there is because this is just the beginning.

The complaint is a legal allegation from the plaintiff against a series of defendants. No arguments have been made. No exhibits have been presented.

Perhaps because it hasn't had its day in court. Evidence is usually not presented in the media before it has been presented in court.

After reading the complaint quickly I have a better understanding of, seemingly, why things may have happened the way they did. BUT I don't KNOW why they did, nor will I ever know.

There are allegations of abuse from the defendants against the plaintiff in regard to the decedent. What if they were true? Does that change anything for your opinion of what happened?

I have not seen statements that state this. Could you show me where those allegations were made against the plaintiff?

If the plaintiff was abusing his partner of 20 years and the medical staff acted to protect the decedent from continued abuse and sold off property and belongings to pay for the care required... does that make it ok?

Again.. I have read through all of this a few times over and have yet to find where Mr Greene was accused of abusing the decedant.


Again - I don't know what happened and I have not read every word, I'm just exercising my critical thinking skills in an effort to understand how and why this happened.

My thoughts are that this was an elderly couple.. One 78 and one 88. One fell down , broke a hip as it were and someone ( probably with the paramedics) made a complaint. It is usually as simple as that when it comes down to elderly couples ( homo or hetero-sexual) Unfortunately, it seems any directive to execution of estate was neglected and further set aside by the county administrators. If this happened to our grandparents.. we would be all over this shit. A lot of gay couples have no one other than themselves, particularly at this advanced age. They have no immediate family of advocates.

And regarding the validity of accusations of abuse... If there were documented records of abuse over a 20 year period that no one stepped in on, ( which I doubt) then I would be even more enraged at the system that so clearly failed these men.

[Waldo]

Originally Posted by Jess

Perhaps because it hasn't had its day in court. Evidence is usually not presented in the media before it has been presented in court.

JESS - That is exactly my point. No evidence has been brought forth yet. Let's see. Let's look at the evidence instead of assuming we know what happened.

Originally Posted by Jess

There are allegations of abuse from the defendants against the plaintiff in regard to the decedent. What if they were true? Does that change anything for your opinion of what happened?

I have not seen statements that state this. Could you show me where those allegations were made against the plaintiff?

In section 23 of the complaint the following is stated:

"Defendants COUNTY, LIEDHOLM, STAGG-HOURIGAN, BREWSTER and others and each of them, further made representations and false and misleading statements in support of said Petition, including but not limited to accusing Plaintiff GREENE of committing physical abuse and financial abuse of Decedent, being a danger to Decedent"

Originally Posted by Jess

Again.. I have read through all of this a few times over and have yet to find where Mr Greene was accused of abusing the decedant.

Had you read the complaint or only the coverage of the complaint? I think it's kind of odd that none of the media has mentioned that little tidbit and I am positive that none of the agencies involved from the defendant's side are making a big deal out of it. Of course it's kind of a lot to expect of the media to actually dig into a case like this when they can't even get details of world events right.

Originally Posted by Jess

And regarding the validity of accusations of abuse... If there were documented records of abuse over a 20 year period that no one stepped in on, ( which I doubt) then I would be even more enraged at the system that so clearly failed these men.

Lots of cases of domestic abuse go unreported. I can't speak to whether there were or weren't ANY cases of abuse here. I'm reading the complaint and what the plaintiff's lawyer is saying his client was accused of.

And in summary? We can't know. We weren't there. How about we wait for the evidence to be presented before we damn anyone.

[Toughy]

abuse...............

how about homophobic assholes will make up shit when they want to or need to because they are homophobic assholes...and will do anything to see we lead miserable lives until they can hasten our death so we can burn in hell and fuck over anyone who dares love or partner with us after they kill us off...........

Sonoma County (and most of CA and the entire country) is chock FULL of homophobes and I don't doubt for a minute they would fuck over any gay couple they could..........to the point of taking everything from the individual and his/her surviving partner without legal due process and on the deathbed of one of the couple

[Jess]

Thanks Waldo. Me in blue.

Originally Posted by Waldo

JESS - That is exactly my point. No evidence has been brought forth yet. Let's see. Let's look at the evidence instead of assuming we know what happened.



In section 23 of the complaint the following is stated:

"Defendants COUNTY, LIEDHOLM, STAGG-HOURIGAN, BREWSTER and others and each of them, further made representations and false and misleading statements in support of said Petition, including but not limited to accusing Plaintiff GREENE of committing physical abuse and financial abuse of Decedent, being a danger to Decedent"

Doesn't this go to say that the statements were "false and/ or misleading" ? I suppose that when it does go to court, the defendants will be forced to bring evidence of this alleged abuse.



Had you read the complaint or only the coverage of the complaint? I think it's kind of odd that none of the media has mentioned that little tidbit and I am positive that none of the agencies involved from the defendant's side are making a big deal out of it. Of course it's kind of a lot to expect of the media to actually dig into a case like this when they can't even get details of world events right.

I had not read the entire complaint. However in reading the section you pulled above, it doesn't speak to me of anything except slander on the part of the defendants. I doubt any more mainstream media would have jumped on this anymore than they would any other old couple who the county came in and took their home and/or put them in a nursing facility. We only hear of these things in the media when someone ( family or advocate) speaks up to the injustice involved. It's kind of like when we see shows about hoarders and the unhealthy/ unsafe conditions they live in and some agency intervenes.

Not knowing the whole situation is kind of a tricky place to jump to someone's defense. It surprises me that with the amount of attention this has received, the county or any of the defendants have not made some statement. Usually when a govt. body is accused of something like this( especially if they are in the right) a statement is issued.


Lots of cases of domestic abuse go unreported. I can't speak to whether there were or weren't ANY cases of abuse here. I'm reading the complaint and what the plaintiff's lawyer is saying his client was accused of.

And in summary? We can't know. We weren't there. How about we wait for the evidence to be presented before we damn anyone.

I'm cool with not damning anyone until more facts come to light. I am also very cool with sending as many petitions to as many politicians from President to local animal control that we need Marriage Equality. These are things going on to and within our community that brings up the old warrior in me and does encourage me to take action whenever I can. My personal responsibility starts in having clear legal documentation to protect my WIFE and stepson in the case of my death or long term care. My global responsibility comes in telling the elected officials in my county/ state/ country that this shit is getting real old and is totally unacceptable.

I imagine a great many conversations are happening about this case. If the allegations prove false and the plaintiffs truly did overstep the human rights of this couple, I am sure the more mainstream media will cover that story, because it will be more visible as the outrage of gay folks swells.

[Waldo]

Jess - of course it says the allegations against the Plaintiff are false. This complaint was filed on behalf of the Plaintiff GREENE. GREENE is suing the defendants. The defendants alleged that GREENE abused SCULL. It wouldn't be in his best interest to say anything other than "THAT'S FALSE".

The media, whether mainstream or not, has jumped on this to some extent. But they only do a cursory glance at the details mentioned by the parties bringing it to their attention. In this case? That appears to be the Plaintiff's representation.

Originally Posted by Jess

Thanks Waldo. Me in blue.

I'm cool with not damning anyone until more facts come to light. I am also very cool with sending as many petitions to as many politicians from President to local animal control that we need Marriage Equality. These are things going on to and within our community that brings up the old warrior in me and does encourage me to take action whenever I can. My personal responsibility starts in having clear legal documentation to protect my WIFE and stepson in the case of my death or long term care. My global responsibility comes in telling the elected officials in my county/ state/ country that this shit is getting real old and is totally unacceptable.

I imagine a great many conversations are happening about this case. If the allegations prove false and the plaintiffs truly did overstep the human rights of this couple, I am sure the more mainstream media will cover that story, because it will be more visible as the outrage of gay folks swells.