In Celebration of Butch Femininity

[tapu]

Originally Posted by Selenay

My sexuality is not based around my, or anyone else's, underwear stuffing.

Okay, give me your basic definition of the English language word lesbian.

Just give us at this point where to start: those semantic features that are necessary and sufficient to add up to "lesbian"

[Martina]

Tapu, please do not use the reputation comments to me to post critical/unfriendly remarks. My understanding is that that is against the TOS.

[tapu]

Originally Posted by Martina

Tapu, please do not use the reputation comments to me to post critical/unfriendly remarks. My understanding is that that is against the TOS.

Yes, maam, just didn't want to make that remark public since it was just to you.

But I'll read up on TOS before I post anything to or near you again.

[Martina]

We should just ignore her. This is what happens so often. You are having a serious discussion, and a crackpot comes in and pushes everyone's buttons and derails it. She's having a good time, but everyone else is not.

[tapu]

Originally Posted by Martina

We should just ignore her. This is what happens so often. You are having a serious discussion, and a crackpot comes in and pushes everyone's buttons and derails it. She's having a good time, but everyone else is not.

Gosh, Martina, was it something I said?

Please take your personal vendetta private or away, and discuss only the topic here. There must be something in the TOS about that.

[tapu]

Some might do well to reread my definition and not saddle it with connotation.

For example, "like pussy exclusively" does not entail any nuances of "has to enjoy having hers touched," "has to touch it to like it."

Also, a MTF trans qualifies if they have a pussy.

Hey, words DO have meanings. Otherwise, this would be Babel....

[stargazingboi]

Originally Posted by tapu

Some might do well to reread my definition and not saddle it with connotation.

For example, "like pussy exclusively" does not entail any nuances of "has to enjoy having hers touched," "has to touch it to like it."

Also, a MTF trans qualifies if they have a pussy.

Hey, words DO have meanings. Otherwise, this would be Babel....

I can't agree with the MTF only qualifying if she has a "pussy"...she qualifies because she is a woman..period

[tapu]

Originally Posted by stargazingboi

I can't agree with the MTF only qualifying if she has a "pussy"...she qualifies because she is a woman..period

I understand the pull to include MTF and FTM both as lesbians, but you must admit that they seem like they form a subcategory or a caveat to the definition of lesbian, as it means in the general parlance.

I don't mind people stepping outside the parlance. Matter of fact I honor it directly and personally with some MTF's I know. But they are special categories to "lesbian." The unmarked form does not include them.

[C0LLETTE]

Please allow me to make something very clear. I don't care who thanks me or doesn't thank me. Who sends me messages or doesn't. I have no horse in this race and don't want one.

[stargazingboi]

Originally Posted by tapu

I understand the pull to include MTF and FTM both as lesbians, but you must admit that they seem like they form a subcategory or a caveat to the definition of lesbian, as it means in the general parlance.

I don't mind people stepping outside the parlance. Matter of fact I honor it directly and personally with some MTF's I know. But they are special categories to "lesbian." The unmarked form does not include them.

then we would all have our own subcategory...wouldn't we, and we would all fall under the umbrella term of lesbian. Then, right there in itself should prevent division and not continue the break down of a community.

[BullDog]

Originally Posted by tapu

I understand the pull to include MTF and FTM both as lesbians, but you must admit that they seem like they form a subcategory or a caveat to the definition of lesbian, as it means in the general parlance.

I don't mind people stepping outside the parlance. Matter of fact I honor it directly and personally with some MTF's I know. But they are special categories to "lesbian." The unmarked form does not include them.

MTFs and FTMs are human beings (not caveats or special categories) and they are lesbians if that is how they choose to identify. That's why I dislike your definition of lesbian based on anatomy. That's why MTFs aren't welcome at MichFest. Nobody qualifies or is disqualified based on what they have or don't have downstairs.

[weatherboi]

Originally Posted by C0LLETTE

So far what I've noticed in reading here is that some people have been offended, even hurt, by what some other people or groups have said. Some friends have been lost, some made; but what I don't see is anyone saying they changed who they were or wanted to be because of what was said. Can make you wonder how deep this all really runs.

On a more personal note:
I started to write a small history of how I came to this site and why I'm still wandering around with bullet holes in my back from my first days here in chat. In the midst of that, I received an email which I'll quote here:

"In my heart I am not a failure or a loser.
Not asking for a magic wand. I get up and wait in county lines for aid or food 4 hours sometimes 6 a day.
I am hungry and hopeless.
Medi-care is causing me to start all over again.My medication i need was denied . I am fighting it and have a state hearing . another nightmare. tirred. i am so tired.
i need help from you, but understand
i liked hearing your voice today"

And that's where I lost my train of thought in this thread.

Originally Posted by weatherboi

Are you saying someone asked you for money???

Originally Posted by C0LLETTE

If that is what you got from my post then I obviously need to stop posting here.

If you are speaking to me


"i need help from you, but understand i liked hearing your voice today"
I can empathize with what comes before this one sentence then I am distracted by what feels to me like a play for emotional drainage or a play for money. I have seen it a lot in the online community so it is a red flag to me. I was concerned for you, nothing more.

I just want to point out I feel your response to me to be short, dismissive, and insinuates that I am not "getting it". That is no way to have a reasonable conversation and totally goes against what we are trying to accomplish here.

[C0LLETTE]

Originally Posted by weatherboi

If you are speaking to me


"i need help from you, but understand i liked hearing your voice today"
I can empathize with what comes before this one sentence then I am distracted by what feels to me like a play for emotional drainage or a play for money. I have seen it a lot in the online community so it is a red flag to me. I was concerned for you, nothing more.

I just want to point out I feel your response to me to be short, dismissive, and insinuates that I am not "getting it". That is no way to have a reasonable conversation and totally goes against what we are trying to accomplish here.

Thank you for your concern weatherboi and I apologise for having misinterpreted your response which I found "short, dismissive and insinuate(ing). I do wish to have "a reasonable conversation" and would never want to "totally (go) against what we are trying to accomplish here".

In an effort to avoid being further ostracised from that "we", I am now disengaging from this issue with you.

[Selenay]

Originally Posted by tapu

Okay, give me your basic definition of the English language word lesbian.

Just give us at this point where to start: those semantic features that are necessary and sufficient to add up to "lesbian"

I'd be happy to, but hopefully this will end the discourse, since we've now moved off topic.

I prefer to use legitimate definitions when making sweeping statements about the definitions of others sexuality, so I've chosen to use the Oxford Dictionary definition:
a homosexual woman.

Now, I like to do my due diligence, so let's check out the definition of homosexual:
(of a person) sexually attracted to people of one’s own sex.

But that's tricky, because sex and gender are not necessarily the same thing, and while the OED has a whole discussion on the difference between sex and gender, I think this discussion is off-topic enough. While I'd be thrilled to engage with you further about what "makes" someone a lesbian, this is neither the time nor place to do so.

[tapu]

Originally Posted by Selenay

I'd be happy to, but hopefully this will end the discourse, since we've now moved off topic.

I prefer to use legitimate definitions when making sweeping statements about the definitions of others sexuality, so I've chosen to use the Oxford Dictionary definition:
a homosexual woman.

Now, I like to do my due diligence, so let's check out the definition of homosexual:
(of a person) sexually attracted to people of one’s own sex.

But that's tricky, because sex and gender are not necessarily the same thing, and while the OED has a whole discussion on the difference between sex and gender, I think this discussion is off-topic enough. While I'd be happy to engage with you further about what "makes" someone a lesbian, this is neither the time nor place to do so.

Guess you get the last word.

[Kobi]

One of the saddest things in the world to me, is female to female misogyny. It is drilled into us from birth. We are taught that it is up to women to police other women. We are taught when a woman or group of women threaten to upset the status quo they must be silenced by any means possible.

Well done. The patriarchy is very proud of you.

[The_Lady_Snow]

Originally Posted by Kobi

One of the saddest things in the world to me, is female to female misogyny. It is drilled into us from birth. We are taught that it is up to women to police other women. We are taught when a woman or group of women threaten to upset the status quo they must be silenced by any means possible.

Well done. The patriarchy is very proud of you.

Does this statement apply to you as we'll? Thanks you for clarifying ahead of time.

[Martina]

Originally Posted by Kobi

One of the saddest things in the world to me, is female to female misogyny. It is drilled into us from birth. We are taught that it is up to women to police other women. We are taught when a woman or group of women threaten to upset the status quo they must be silenced by any means possible.

Well done. The patriarchy is very proud of you.

If I criticize another woman, that does not make it misogyny. I still think that holding up Megan Ellison as some kind of example is highly questionable. I have class politics too. It's not all about feminism all the time. And being a feminist doesn't mean you abandon reason and support all women regardless. There are some bad women out there.

How would we criticize Michelle Bachman or Megyn Kelly's insanity if we never questioned a word spoken by another woman?