Butch Femme Planet  

Go Back   Butch Femme Planet > GENDER AND IDENTITY > The Butch Zone

The Butch Zone For all things "Butch"

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-31-2014, 02:48 PM   #1
tapu
Senior Member

How Do You Identify?:
Understated butch.
Preferred Pronoun?:
I
Relationship Status:
Party of One
 

Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Maine
Posts: 1,654
Thanks: 1,324
Thanked 3,114 Times in 1,103 Posts
Rep Power: 21474852
tapu Has the BEST Reputationtapu Has the BEST Reputationtapu Has the BEST Reputationtapu Has the BEST Reputationtapu Has the BEST Reputationtapu Has the BEST Reputationtapu Has the BEST Reputationtapu Has the BEST Reputationtapu Has the BEST Reputationtapu Has the BEST Reputationtapu Has the BEST Reputation
Default

Some might do well to reread my definition and not saddle it with connotation.

For example, "like pussy exclusively" does not entail any nuances of "has to enjoy having hers touched," "has to touch it to like it."

Also, a MTF trans qualifies if they have a pussy.

Hey, words DO have meanings. Otherwise, this would be Babel....
__________________
Really? That's not funny to you?
tapu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2014, 03:12 PM   #2
stargazingboi
Senior Member

How Do You Identify?:
~
Preferred Pronoun?:
~
 
stargazingboi's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: ~
Posts: 1,954
Thanks: 10,392
Thanked 8,318 Times in 1,626 Posts
Rep Power: 21474853
stargazingboi Has the BEST Reputationstargazingboi Has the BEST Reputationstargazingboi Has the BEST Reputationstargazingboi Has the BEST Reputationstargazingboi Has the BEST Reputationstargazingboi Has the BEST Reputationstargazingboi Has the BEST Reputationstargazingboi Has the BEST Reputationstargazingboi Has the BEST Reputationstargazingboi Has the BEST Reputationstargazingboi Has the BEST Reputation
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tapu View Post
Some might do well to reread my definition and not saddle it with connotation.

For example, "like pussy exclusively" does not entail any nuances of "has to enjoy having hers touched," "has to touch it to like it."

Also, a MTF trans qualifies if they have a pussy.

Hey, words DO have meanings. Otherwise, this would be Babel....
I can't agree with the MTF only qualifying if she has a "pussy"...she qualifies because she is a woman..period
stargazingboi is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 12 Users Say Thank You to stargazingboi For This Useful Post:
Old 01-31-2014, 03:26 PM   #3
tapu
Senior Member

How Do You Identify?:
Understated butch.
Preferred Pronoun?:
I
Relationship Status:
Party of One
 

Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Maine
Posts: 1,654
Thanks: 1,324
Thanked 3,114 Times in 1,103 Posts
Rep Power: 21474852
tapu Has the BEST Reputationtapu Has the BEST Reputationtapu Has the BEST Reputationtapu Has the BEST Reputationtapu Has the BEST Reputationtapu Has the BEST Reputationtapu Has the BEST Reputationtapu Has the BEST Reputationtapu Has the BEST Reputationtapu Has the BEST Reputationtapu Has the BEST Reputation
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by stargazingboi View Post
I can't agree with the MTF only qualifying if she has a "pussy"...she qualifies because she is a woman..period
I understand the pull to include MTF and FTM both as lesbians, but you must admit that they seem like they form a subcategory or a caveat to the definition of lesbian, as it means in the general parlance.

I don't mind people stepping outside the parlance. Matter of fact I honor it directly and personally with some MTF's I know. But they are special categories to "lesbian." The unmarked form does not include them.
__________________
Really? That's not funny to you?
tapu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2014, 03:32 PM   #4
C0LLETTE
Practically Lives Here

How Do You Identify?:
Depends on the day.
Preferred Pronoun?:
"I" and "we"
Relationship Status:
Very good. Thank you for asking.
 
C0LLETTE's Avatar
 

Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Canada
Posts: 11,501
Thanks: 16,676
Thanked 15,177 Times in 4,341 Posts
Rep Power: 21474860
C0LLETTE Has the BEST ReputationC0LLETTE Has the BEST ReputationC0LLETTE Has the BEST ReputationC0LLETTE Has the BEST ReputationC0LLETTE Has the BEST ReputationC0LLETTE Has the BEST ReputationC0LLETTE Has the BEST ReputationC0LLETTE Has the BEST ReputationC0LLETTE Has the BEST ReputationC0LLETTE Has the BEST ReputationC0LLETTE Has the BEST Reputation
Default

Please allow me to make something very clear. I don't care who thanks me or doesn't thank me. Who sends me messages or doesn't. I have no horse in this race and don't want one.
__________________
______________________________
______________________________
C0LLETTE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2014, 03:41 PM   #5
musicman
Member

How Do You Identify?:
NA
 

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: NA
Posts: 209
Thanks: 195
Thanked 429 Times in 125 Posts
Rep Power: 3610464
musicman Has the BEST Reputationmusicman Has the BEST Reputationmusicman Has the BEST Reputationmusicman Has the BEST Reputationmusicman Has the BEST Reputationmusicman Has the BEST Reputationmusicman Has the BEST Reputationmusicman Has the BEST Reputationmusicman Has the BEST Reputationmusicman Has the BEST Reputationmusicman Has the BEST Reputation
Default

I just wanted to send out a kudos to the site Admin for NOT shutting this thread down. Do I understand the guts of it .... no, but I can appreciate the healthy debate , the going back and forth the thread is creating. I've seen a few times on this site a thread shut down because someone went against the grain of the majority or stepped on someones toes.

We need more of these thread, the meat and potatoes, stick to your ribs threads
musicman is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 11 Users Say Thank You to musicman For This Useful Post:
Old 01-31-2014, 03:44 PM   #6
stargazingboi
Senior Member

How Do You Identify?:
~
Preferred Pronoun?:
~
 
stargazingboi's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: ~
Posts: 1,954
Thanks: 10,392
Thanked 8,318 Times in 1,626 Posts
Rep Power: 21474853
stargazingboi Has the BEST Reputationstargazingboi Has the BEST Reputationstargazingboi Has the BEST Reputationstargazingboi Has the BEST Reputationstargazingboi Has the BEST Reputationstargazingboi Has the BEST Reputationstargazingboi Has the BEST Reputationstargazingboi Has the BEST Reputationstargazingboi Has the BEST Reputationstargazingboi Has the BEST Reputationstargazingboi Has the BEST Reputation
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tapu View Post
I understand the pull to include MTF and FTM both as lesbians, but you must admit that they seem like they form a subcategory or a caveat to the definition of lesbian, as it means in the general parlance.

I don't mind people stepping outside the parlance. Matter of fact I honor it directly and personally with some MTF's I know. But they are special categories to "lesbian." The unmarked form does not include them.
then we would all have our own subcategory...wouldn't we, and we would all fall under the umbrella term of lesbian. Then, right there in itself should prevent division and not continue the break down of a community.
stargazingboi is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to stargazingboi For This Useful Post:
Old 01-31-2014, 03:48 PM   #7
tapu
Senior Member

How Do You Identify?:
Understated butch.
Preferred Pronoun?:
I
Relationship Status:
Party of One
 

Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Maine
Posts: 1,654
Thanks: 1,324
Thanked 3,114 Times in 1,103 Posts
Rep Power: 21474852
tapu Has the BEST Reputationtapu Has the BEST Reputationtapu Has the BEST Reputationtapu Has the BEST Reputationtapu Has the BEST Reputationtapu Has the BEST Reputationtapu Has the BEST Reputationtapu Has the BEST Reputationtapu Has the BEST Reputationtapu Has the BEST Reputationtapu Has the BEST Reputation
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by stargazingboi View Post
then we would all have our own subcategory...wouldn't we, and we would all fall under the umbrella term of lesbian. Then, right there in itself should prevent division and not continue the break down of a community.
I think I understand... what is your definition of lesbian then? I mean, what are the basic semantic features that describe the category "Lesbian," so that you can have your umbrella?
__________________
Really? That's not funny to you?
tapu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2014, 03:51 PM   #8
BullDog
Infamous Member

How Do You Identify?:
Dominant Stone Butch Daddy
Preferred Pronoun?:
She
 

Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: In A Healing Place
Posts: 5,371
Thanks: 18,160
Thanked 22,666 Times in 4,464 Posts
Rep Power: 21474856
BullDog Has the BEST ReputationBullDog Has the BEST ReputationBullDog Has the BEST ReputationBullDog Has the BEST ReputationBullDog Has the BEST ReputationBullDog Has the BEST ReputationBullDog Has the BEST ReputationBullDog Has the BEST ReputationBullDog Has the BEST ReputationBullDog Has the BEST ReputationBullDog Has the BEST Reputation
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tapu View Post
I understand the pull to include MTF and FTM both as lesbians, but you must admit that they seem like they form a subcategory or a caveat to the definition of lesbian, as it means in the general parlance.

I don't mind people stepping outside the parlance. Matter of fact I honor it directly and personally with some MTF's I know. But they are special categories to "lesbian." The unmarked form does not include them.

MTFs and FTMs are human beings (not caveats or special categories) and they are lesbians if that is how they choose to identify. That's why I dislike your definition of lesbian based on anatomy. That's why MTFs aren't welcome at MichFest. Nobody qualifies or is disqualified based on what they have or don't have downstairs.
__________________
Love consists in this, that two solitudes protect and touch and greet each other.

- Rainer Maria Rilke
BullDog is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 8 Users Say Thank You to BullDog For This Useful Post:
Old 01-31-2014, 03:54 PM   #9
The_Lady_Snow
MILLION $$$ PUSSY

How Do You Identify?:
Kinky, Raw, Perverted, Uber Queer Alpha Femme
Preferred Pronoun?:
Iconic Ms.
Relationship Status:
Keeper of 3, only one has the map to my freckles
 
The_Lady_Snow's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: ** La Reina del Sur**
Posts: 22,488
Thanks: 32,231
Thanked 80,081 Times in 15,669 Posts
Rep Power: 21474874
The_Lady_Snow Has the BEST ReputationThe_Lady_Snow Has the BEST ReputationThe_Lady_Snow Has the BEST ReputationThe_Lady_Snow Has the BEST ReputationThe_Lady_Snow Has the BEST ReputationThe_Lady_Snow Has the BEST ReputationThe_Lady_Snow Has the BEST ReputationThe_Lady_Snow Has the BEST ReputationThe_Lady_Snow Has the BEST ReputationThe_Lady_Snow Has the BEST ReputationThe_Lady_Snow Has the BEST Reputation
Thumbs down Wow!

So now we're gonna "other" Trans folk? Really? Are we really going to be ugly? WTF? I don't understand why the continued erasure, they're LESBIANS cause that's their IDENTITY! Is it that difficult to grasp?
__________________
"If you’re going to play these dirty games of ours, then you might as well indulge completely. It’s all about turning back into an animal and that’s the beauty of it. Place your guilt on the sidewalk and take a blow torch to it (guilt is usually worthless anyway). Be perverted, be filthy, do things that mannered people shouldn’t do. If you’re going to be gross then go for it and don’t wimp out."---Master Aiden


The_Lady_Snow is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 11 Users Say Thank You to The_Lady_Snow For This Useful Post:
Old 01-31-2014, 04:20 PM   #10
Nat
Senior Member

How Do You Identify?:
bigender (DID System)
Preferred Pronoun?:
he/him or alter-specific
Relationship Status:
Unavailable
 

Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Central TX
Posts: 3,537
Thanks: 11,047
Thanked 13,971 Times in 2,591 Posts
Rep Power: 21474855
Nat Has the BEST ReputationNat Has the BEST ReputationNat Has the BEST ReputationNat Has the BEST ReputationNat Has the BEST ReputationNat Has the BEST ReputationNat Has the BEST ReputationNat Has the BEST ReputationNat Has the BEST ReputationNat Has the BEST ReputationNat Has the BEST Reputation
Default

Oh how exciting to look in on the thread I started and see 7 pages already! Woohoo

Okay so now I've read through it and maybe most of it is off-topic, but I do love you contentious people. <3

I also feel much like dykeumentary posted - we are not the actual problem even when we fight tooth and nail with each other over stuff.

I don't think every butch has an especially pronounced feminine side, just like I don't think every femme has a pronounced masculine side. However, I am a femme who enjoys my masculine side and hates to feel shamed or squashed or excluded for not fitting some imaginary femme mold.

I also love me some butch pride where it applies. I'd hate to see butches excluded from butchness by people in our community with narrow views of what butch is.

A long time ago on a site far away, a self-identified butch told me that she wore women's underwear because it fit her and from time to time she enjoyed wearing lipstick. This was a really neat butch - cute, smart, thoughtful, etc. and she was a butch - no mistaking that. But she also said she would NEVER admit to these facts about herself online, as she would no longer be considered butch should she do so. I puzzled over that for a bit - back then I was still a baby femme and didn't really understand much about how gender pressure happened. But over the years, I've seen some really awesome self-identified butches hide their girlier qualities for fear of ridicule and I've seen some butchy people avoid b/f space and identity due to what are perceived as rigid definitions - while at the same time feeling isolated by non-b-f lesbians who often really don't know quite what to do with a butch or a femme - the loudest of these often being the most unwelcoming voices. And so with slices from both sides, these folks remain in the desert - deprived of the comradery, the shared knowledge, and even the bickering that we get to indulge in. I personally think that's a pity.
__________________
I'm a fountain of blood. In the shape of a girl.

- Bjork

What is to give light must endure burning.

-Viktor Frankl

Last edited by Nat; 01-31-2014 at 04:28 PM.
Nat is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 8 Users Say Thank You to Nat For This Useful Post:
Old 01-31-2014, 03:58 PM   #11
Martina
Senior Member

How Do You Identify?:
***
 
Martina's Avatar
 

Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: ***
Posts: 4,999
Thanks: 13,409
Thanked 18,286 Times in 4,167 Posts
Rep Power: 21474854
Martina Has the BEST ReputationMartina Has the BEST ReputationMartina Has the BEST ReputationMartina Has the BEST ReputationMartina Has the BEST ReputationMartina Has the BEST ReputationMartina Has the BEST ReputationMartina Has the BEST ReputationMartina Has the BEST ReputationMartina Has the BEST ReputationMartina Has the BEST Reputation
Default

Identity categories need to be porous. Otherwise they are another excuse to police and oppress. Rigidly defining identity categories is a classic, classic form of oppression among members of a group. It's not the point. How useful IS it to have a definition that is completely consistent? Not at all. Not unless you are interested in excluding people or in treating some members differently.
Martina is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 10 Users Say Thank You to Martina For This Useful Post:
Old 01-31-2014, 04:11 PM   #12
C0LLETTE
Practically Lives Here

How Do You Identify?:
Depends on the day.
Preferred Pronoun?:
"I" and "we"
Relationship Status:
Very good. Thank you for asking.
 
C0LLETTE's Avatar
 

Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Canada
Posts: 11,501
Thanks: 16,676
Thanked 15,177 Times in 4,341 Posts
Rep Power: 21474860
C0LLETTE Has the BEST ReputationC0LLETTE Has the BEST ReputationC0LLETTE Has the BEST ReputationC0LLETTE Has the BEST ReputationC0LLETTE Has the BEST ReputationC0LLETTE Has the BEST ReputationC0LLETTE Has the BEST ReputationC0LLETTE Has the BEST ReputationC0LLETTE Has the BEST ReputationC0LLETTE Has the BEST ReputationC0LLETTE Has the BEST Reputation
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Martina View Post
Identity categories need to be porous. Otherwise they are another excuse to police and oppress. Rigidly defining identity categories is a classic, classic form of oppression among members of a group. It's not the point. How useful IS it to have a definition that is completely consistent? Not at all. Not unless you are interested in excluding people or in treating some members differently.
On the other hand, how useful is it to have a definition that is so fluid and porous that no one knows from minute to minute what is meant by a term? It's quite the conundrum when we talk about "members" of something but no one can agree on what that something is. Maybe "exclusion" isn't necessarily the automatic perjorative we assume it to be. We aren't all Polish either. Though I suppose we all can become Polish once we know the criterion.
__________________
______________________________
______________________________
C0LLETTE is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to C0LLETTE For This Useful Post:
Old 01-31-2014, 04:35 PM   #13
Play
Member

How Do You Identify?:
Butch
Relationship Status:
Nope
 
Play's Avatar
 

Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Boondocks
Posts: 105
Thanks: 593
Thanked 381 Times in 95 Posts
Rep Power: 2165824
Play Has the BEST ReputationPlay Has the BEST ReputationPlay Has the BEST ReputationPlay Has the BEST ReputationPlay Has the BEST ReputationPlay Has the BEST ReputationPlay Has the BEST ReputationPlay Has the BEST ReputationPlay Has the BEST ReputationPlay Has the BEST ReputationPlay Has the BEST Reputation
Default Change ....

Words have an original meaning and then may have evolved into a broader
or narrower meaning. We, as humans, recognize that things have changed
over the course of time. I think as caring, thinking, compassionate people,
it would serve all of us well to embrace the ever-changing meaning of words in
our own community.

While I appreciate everyone's input into any conversation, I have to say
the intent of some seems more combative than constructive.

To quote my dad, "Opinions are like assholes. Everybody's got one"

That being said....I'm enjoying this discussion even though it has gone
wildly off-course.

If someone feels the need to judge me.....
I hope it is for my intent instead of poor word choice.
Play is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to Play For This Useful Post:
Old 01-31-2014, 05:22 PM   #14
lamuymuyfem
Junior Member

How Do You Identify?:
old school femme, date butches and FtMs who like girls
Preferred Pronoun?:
she, la fabulosa
Relationship Status:
recalculating, recalculating
 
lamuymuyfem's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Westconsin
Posts: 62
Thanks: 402
Thanked 165 Times in 37 Posts
Rep Power: 1123656
lamuymuyfem Has the BEST Reputationlamuymuyfem Has the BEST Reputationlamuymuyfem Has the BEST Reputationlamuymuyfem Has the BEST Reputationlamuymuyfem Has the BEST Reputationlamuymuyfem Has the BEST Reputationlamuymuyfem Has the BEST Reputationlamuymuyfem Has the BEST Reputationlamuymuyfem Has the BEST Reputationlamuymuyfem Has the BEST Reputationlamuymuyfem Has the BEST Reputation
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BullDog View Post
MTFs and FTMs are human beings (not caveats or special categories) and they are lesbians if that is how they choose to identify. That's why I dislike your definition of lesbian based on anatomy. That's why MTFs aren't welcome at MichFest. Nobody qualifies or is disqualified based on what they have or don't have downstairs.
Wait wait wait wait….in my understanding, gender ID and sexual orientation are two separate things……which means that transgender folks should have the right to a sexual orientation, which could possibly be lesbian…….si o no?
lamuymuyfem is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to lamuymuyfem For This Useful Post:
Old 01-31-2014, 05:23 PM   #15
BullDog
Infamous Member

How Do You Identify?:
Dominant Stone Butch Daddy
Preferred Pronoun?:
She
 

Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: In A Healing Place
Posts: 5,371
Thanks: 18,160
Thanked 22,666 Times in 4,464 Posts
Rep Power: 21474856
BullDog Has the BEST ReputationBullDog Has the BEST ReputationBullDog Has the BEST ReputationBullDog Has the BEST ReputationBullDog Has the BEST ReputationBullDog Has the BEST ReputationBullDog Has the BEST ReputationBullDog Has the BEST ReputationBullDog Has the BEST ReputationBullDog Has the BEST ReputationBullDog Has the BEST Reputation
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by lamuymuyfem View Post
Wait wait wait wait….in my understanding, gender ID and sexual orientation are two separate things……which means that transgender folks should have the right to a sexual orientation, which could possibly be lesbian…….si o no?
Yes that is what I was saying. Anyone who says they are a lesbian, is a lesbian. People have different reasons for iding that way.
__________________
Love consists in this, that two solitudes protect and touch and greet each other.

- Rainer Maria Rilke
BullDog is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to BullDog For This Useful Post:
Old 01-31-2014, 05:52 PM   #16
Kobi
Infamous Member

How Do You Identify?:
Biological female. Lesbian.
Relationship Status:
Happy
 
39 Highscores

Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Hanging out in the Atlantic.
Posts: 9,234
Thanks: 9,840
Thanked 34,636 Times in 7,642 Posts
Rep Power: 21474861
Kobi Has the BEST ReputationKobi Has the BEST ReputationKobi Has the BEST ReputationKobi Has the BEST ReputationKobi Has the BEST ReputationKobi Has the BEST ReputationKobi Has the BEST ReputationKobi Has the BEST ReputationKobi Has the BEST ReputationKobi Has the BEST ReputationKobi Has the BEST Reputation
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BullDog View Post
Yes that is what I was saying. Anyone who says they are a lesbian, is a lesbian. People have different reasons for iding that way.

Between this and your other post....you are saying:

cis women are lesbians if they so choose
MTF are lesbians if they so choose
FTM are lesbian if they so choose
ergo, cis heterosexual men are also lesbian if they so choose
my cat is lesbian if she so chooses.

I can call myself a ham sandwich, doesnt mean I am one.

And Snow thinks we are othering transfolks?

You have effectively rendered being a lesbian to meaning nothing. Its not bad enough that lesbians have been bashed in this thread, called responsible for all that ails the community, now you are trying to totally transform women who love other women into something else?

This has got to be the most disrespectful, insulting, negating, misogynistic, lesbian phobic, homophobic bunch of bullshit I have ever heard in this community.


Kobi is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Kobi For This Useful Post:
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:30 PM.


ButchFemmePlanet.com
All information copyright of BFP 2018