Ask a trans person!

[Soon]

Well, I'm sure you're saying this from experience—but I find it hard to accept as a generalization.

If it's true, then I'd think that was sad, that such a sexist value was being adopted and applied to pollute a new paradigm—because it denigrates the beauty of tall femmes. My sisters.

Thank YOU!

5' 9" here and I tell any interested party pretty quickly that I am this tall...my height has never deterred the butches and guys of only the best kind...

People may have a preference and so be it--one cannot force physical attraction be it height, body shape etc. If that's the case, ok, no harm done.

Not to mention, it can work the OTHER way around. There may be taller femmes who just aren't attracted to guys who are under a certain height as well. It's possible.

[PurpleQuestions84]

Maybe i have just ran into the wrong ones so far :tea:

Thank YOU!

(5' 9" here and I tell any interested party pretty quickly that I am this tall...my height has never deterred the butches and guys of only the best kind...)

[Ginger]

Maybe i have just ran into the wrong ones so far :tea:

Hang in there. Someone who accepts your strengths, your weaknesses; your past, your present; your uniqueness and your ordinariness will have no problem accepting your height. And loving it.

[Soon]

Maybe i have just ran into the wrong ones so far :tea:

I consider myself lucky. I have had some great relationships with fabulous butches and transguys. Or maybe it isn't luck. There is some skill, perceptiveness and time (experience too) involved in finding partners who enrich one's life no matter how long the relationship.

/ends derail!

[PurpleQuestions84]

Correction FTM :)

Because most MTF/ Butch want to be the taller person in the relationship ...

[Nadeest]

Thanks for the correction. I was wondering about that, though there are some MTF Butches about. I was thinking, though, that you were probably referring to FTMs.

[Ginger]

Thanks for the correction. I was wondering about that, though there are some MTF Butches about. I was thinking, though, that you were probably referring to FTMs.


Yeah, I assumed that too.

[ahk]

Has anyone used the Care Credit card to help pay for their surgery/s? and if so, did you have poor, good, great credit when applying? and if you care to share more information, that would be most excellent. Thanks.

[SelfMadeMan]

Has anyone used the Care Credit card to help pay for their surgery/s? and if so, did you have poor, good, great credit when applying? and if you care to share more information, that would be most excellent. Thanks.

I didn't use Care Credit for surgery, we've mainly used it for dental work, and also once for veterinary care for one of our pups. But we didn't have great credit when we applied for it - we had good credit. I've heard of a lot of people getting approved that had some past credit issues. I'd say give it a try! Good luck!

[SelfMadeMan]

Because most MTF/ Butch want to be the taller person in the relationship ...

Nah, I don't think so at all :)
I've known several FTMs and Butches that weren't the taller in the relationship. And someone who didn't want to be with you based on your height, probably isn't someone you want to be with anyway - that would be pretty shallow IMHO!

[DMW]

Because most FTM/ Butch want to be the taller person in the relationship ...

Considering i am almost legally a midget...well, as one of my exes
would fondly and affectionately remind me that i am short in stature (that i would be a midget
if i were so many inches shorter..forget how many) when i would forget...(i do that often)
i could say that most women would want a taller man... but, i don't
know if that is true. I just don't know.
If a woman doesn't want a short dude....
then it ain't me babe...no, no, no...it ain't me your lookin' for babe....
It ain't me babe - Johnny Cash & June Carter Cash - YouTube

To each his own PurpleQuestions...and i bet you are just perfect for
someone out there. If the butch or FTM has an issue with your height...
then, that is their issue...not yours. Hopefully, they will just be honest
and upfront with you that they can't deal with your height,
and you will not have to suffer.

Thank YOU!

5' 9" here and I tell any interested party pretty quickly that I am this tall...my height has never deterred the butches and guys of only the best kind...
People may have a preference and so be it--one cannot force physical attraction be it height, body shape etc. If that's the case, ok, no harm done.

Not to mention, it can work the OTHER way around. There may be taller femmes who just aren't attracted to guys who are under a certain height as well. It's possible.

Totally agree with you Soon. I do the same. I have a similar perspective, sentiment and attitude about it. It is just another way of finding out quicky whether or not two people are compatible. Honesty is the best policy.


Nah, I don't think so at all :)
I've known several FTMs and Butches that weren't the taller in the relationship. And someone who didn't want to be with you based on your height, probably isn't someone you want to be with anyway - that would be pretty shallow IMHO!

Yep!

[Linus]

Has anyone used the Care Credit card to help pay for their surgery/s? and if so, did you have poor, good, great credit when applying? and if you care to share more information, that would be most excellent. Thanks.

I used it. My credit is ok and it covered pretty much all of what I didn't already have in cash. They gave me a $10K LoC but I only needed to use about $5K. I had used $3K at one point for vet bills. It was one of those cards I paid off immediately because after a period of time the interest on it does shoot up but it was good for getting this done. I may consider using it for doing a metio and hysto once I have another $4-5K set aside for that.

[DMW]

Has anyone used the Care Credit card to help pay for their surgery/s? and if so, did you have poor, good, great credit when applying? and if you care to share more information, that would be most excellent. Thanks.

I used part of what was left of my 401k after a damn stock market crash in 2001.
I have never heard of the Care card. But, i must say, i don't think it could hurt
so much to try. If the card can be an avenue to lead you toward the opportunity to have surgery...then Do It.
Lack of coverage is one of the issues that really bugs and digs at me for
trans people...It should be covered by healthcare. Healthcare should be a right for everyone.
I still went to my company to cover all of the bases and apply...knowing i probably wouldn't get covered...because i knew there would be people coming after me. I wanted it logged into the system at BlueCrossBlueSheild..that i existed, applied and was denied. That way...maybe the next one that came along could get it. etc...You know?

I think you should give it a shot. And good luck Ahk

[Beloved]

Not trans here but I'm using Care Credit.

I applied and got accepted for $7200, 2 years no interest. Be careful. The interest can be very high. The statement will give you a minimum that is NOT the minimum for the promotion of no interest. If you pay that and not the amount you need to for no interest you will be charged interest (26%, I believe). Also, if you miss a payment you will be charged all the back interest. It's different than a credit card.

[SelfMadeMan]

Not trans here but I'm using Care Credit.

I applied and got accepted for $7200, 2 years no interest. Be careful. The interest can be very high. The statement will give you a minimum that is NOT the minimum for the promotion of no interest. If you pay that and not the amount you need to for no interest you will be charged interest (26%, I believe). Also, if you miss a payment you will be charged all the back interest. It's different than a credit card.

Yes, thank you for pointing that out Beloved! I hadn't even thought to mention the interest on Care Credit. It's one of the cards we pay off right away.

[Daywalker]

If it helps just one person, it's always worth the share


http://www.sacbee.com/2012/11/08/4972175/calif-city-plans-to-provide-transgender.html


:fyi:

:daywalker:

[Linus]

Anyone here seen Still Black: a Portrait of Black Transmen : http://www.stillblackfilm.org/

I saw it referenced on Huff Post here: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/07/black-lgbt-films_n_2584645.html

[ManOMan]

Anyone here seen Still Black: a Portrait of Black Transmen : http://www.stillblackfilm.org/

I saw it referenced on Huff Post here: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/07/black-lgbt-films_n_2584645.html


Thanks for the post.

I've never heard of this, but I'd like to see the whole thing. I think i'm going to buy it so if the opportunity comes up, I can show it at church. I'm still closeted there and so if/when I do come out, I don't want to be the only freakin' teaching tool...again...

[Breathless]

Thanks for sharing this!

Anyone here seen Still Black: a Portrait of Black Transmen : http://www.stillblackfilm.org/

I saw it referenced on Huff Post here: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/07/black-lgbt-films_n_2584645.html

[Daring_Dreamer]

I'm not sure where to post this. I'm sorry if this offends anyone. That is not my intention, I'm just looking for some advice. It's about my fiance. I'm using gender neutral pronouns, because that is what they are comfortable with right now. They are just starting to come out to me as trans, and I am the first person they have ever talked to about it. We are both in our 20's. The few times they have talked to me about it, it's only been at night when we are in bed and all the lights are out. I've been careful not to make a big deal out of it, and to let them know that I love them for who they are, not the body that they are born into, and that they are a good person, that what they are going through is not wrong, that there is nothing to be ashamed of. We are saving up for top surgery for them. Their family is very religious and conservative. My fiance came out as gay several years ago and their family has always been clear that they do not aprove. There is a trans support group where we live, but they are not comfortable talking to anyone else yet. While I love and support them completely, they need advice and support from someone who understands what they are going through, they need more than me. But since they are not ready to talk to anyone else yet, I'm wondering if there are any books that they can read that would help? Or any other advice?

[LoyalWolfsBlade]

I'm not sure where to post this. I'm sorry if this offends anyone. That is not my intention, I'm just looking for some advice. It's about my fiance. I'm using gender neutral pronouns, because that is what they are comfortable with right now. They are just starting to come out to me as trans, and I am the first person they have ever talked to about it. We are both in our 20's. The few times they have talked to me about it, it's only been at night when we are in bed and all the lights are out. I've been careful not to make a big deal out of it, and to let them know that I love them for who they are, not the body that they are born into, and that they are a good person, that what they are going through is not wrong, that there is nothing to be ashamed of. We are saving up for top surgery for them. Their family is very religious and conservative. My fiance came out as gay several years ago and their family has always been clear that they do not aprove. There is a trans support group where we live, but they are not comfortable talking to anyone else yet. While I love and support them completely, they need advice and support from someone who understands what they are going through, they need more than me. But since they are not ready to talk to anyone else yet, I'm wondering if there are any books that they can read that would help? Or any other advice?

Hi Daring_Dreamer. First I want to commend you and say I would have killed for a girlfriend like you when I was in my 20s so don't sell your support of your fiance short. As for books I would recommend I have only found one I like and it is on the academic side, unfortunately most books about transgender are about the MTF side of our world. You could look on Amazon it tends to have a good selection and a wide variety.

However, I do agree that support from your own kind so to speak is important. If your fiance is still uncomfortable with telling people face to face may I suggest online support. I belong to a couple of online transgender and/or FTM groups where I can talk to the guys or get other resources. Then of course there is here. All the guys I have met are amazing and I think any support is better than none.

If you do find aa book I would like to know btw and if you are interested in the one that I liked let me know and I will be glad to share the title.

Alix

[Linus]

I'm not sure where to post this. I'm sorry if this offends anyone. That is not my intention, I'm just looking for some advice. It's about my fiance. I'm using gender neutral pronouns, because that is what they are comfortable with right now. They are just starting to come out to me as trans, and I am the first person they have ever talked to about it. We are both in our 20's. The few times they have talked to me about it, it's only been at night when we are in bed and all the lights are out. I've been careful not to make a big deal out of it, and to let them know that I love them for who they are, not the body that they are born into, and that they are a good person, that what they are going through is not wrong, that there is nothing to be ashamed of. We are saving up for top surgery for them. Their family is very religious and conservative. My fiance came out as gay several years ago and their family has always been clear that they do not aprove. There is a trans support group where we live, but they are not comfortable talking to anyone else yet. While I love and support them completely, they need advice and support from someone who understands what they are going through, they need more than me. But since they are not ready to talk to anyone else yet, I'm wondering if there are any books that they can read that would help? Or any other advice?

I'm one of the fortunate ones to have a mostly supportive family. That said, I've heard that this book is a good starting point for many: Trans Forming Families: Mary Boenke, Delores Dudley, Lori Bowden: 9780979726002: Amazon.com: Books

There are also a few online trans forums I can recommend if your partner would feel more comfortable with that (just private message me and I'll give you a link).

When I first began my transition, I joined a trans-masculine group (I was in NYC at the time) and it was one of the best things I could have done. I'd also suggest that you may want to find a support group for yourself as well. There are a few SOFFA (Significant Others, Friends, Families and Allie) groups out there as well. Although your partner is going through the transition, you will be impacted by it and the process and your feelings my surprise you. At the very least, knowing there are others experiencing similar as you can make a difference.

[WingsOnFire]

I'm not sure where to post this. I'm sorry if this offends anyone. That is not my intention, I'm just looking for some advice. It's about my fiance. I'm using gender neutral pronouns, because that is what they are comfortable with right now. They are just starting to come out to me as trans, and I am the first person they have ever talked to about it. We are both in our 20's. The few times they have talked to me about it, it's only been at night when we are in bed and all the lights are out. I've been careful not to make a big deal out of it, and to let them know that I love them for who they are, not the body that they are born into, and that they are a good person, that what they are going through is not wrong, that there is nothing to be ashamed of. We are saving up for top surgery for them. Their family is very religious and conservative. My fiance came out as gay several years ago and their family has always been clear that they do not aprove. There is a trans support group where we live, but they are not comfortable talking to anyone else yet. While I love and support them completely, they need advice and support from someone who understands what they are going through, they need more than me. But since they are not ready to talk to anyone else yet, I'm wondering if there are any books that they can read that would help? Or any other advice?

I too want to commend you for your support of your fiance. I began my first relationship with a trans man four years ago. I had never even entertained the idea before that relationship. I have learned so much about myself and what a relationship with a trans person is like. It has been very rewarding but in the beginning I did struggle with what others would think or how to discuss it or if I even should.

So if you would like to ever talk please feel free to PM me. I think you have gotten great advice so far. Keep supporting your fiance and make sure to take care of yourself along the way.

Becca

[psykftm]

Hey there,

sorry if this question was already asked, I'm just tired of reading forums, and want to talk about this shit because all I ever think about is gender stuff, and whether I am a butch, or whether I might actually be a dude in 3 years/if I always was a dude. I think its funny that most people at least know what fucking gender they are, despite all their other uncertainties and problems. Not to say that gender issues cause the ultimate suffering, I'm just saying DAMN.

Question 1. Any ftm ever experience absolutely having to buy male only products? This used to drive my gf (now my ex) crazy. Has to be male shampoo, and when I found out I'm itching constantly because of dry skin, I was devastated that I had to go from super manly looking Axe to boring grey gillete, although its still "looks" manly. Its like I'm paranoid of being perceived as feminine?

If I had money and wasn't as aware of my overcompensation, you know that huge F350 going down the road with spikes in the rims and balls hanging and alla that? ...yeah that would be me lol.

Question 2. I've just now started throwing the idea around in my head about transitioning. But, I am a psychologist before any gender lol, and I say this because I heard this rumor (I think off of becoming chaz) that you become more "manlike" with the not listening to your partner's emotional problems and writing them off as illogical and alla that bullshit. (I mean, when you start taking T.) Personally, I think it IS bullshit, because females can be just as non-validating or whatever you want to call that dynamic, as a male. But, if there is any chance at all of me becoming less in tune to what people are feeling, fuck transitioning with a ten foot pole, no freakin way. Psychology is my passion.

Question 3. I have never been around, hung out with, or maybe even held a conversation with a femme. I don't know any femmes. I am attracted to butches and ftms, and I really don't even give a crap if I turn out to be a gay male after transitioning. Whatever. But, what in the world am I going to do if I get a really feminine client? I feel like I have this gaping hole in experiences, and I fear that I might actually have an aversion to feminine females altogether. Or something. What is up with that? Any ftms have this experience?

I don't consciously, intentionally sit here and think "I don't want anything to do with femmes" just to be clear, I just, this second, realized I don't know anyone who is.

I'll be honest and throw out there that my grandma who adopted and raised me was a straight, Conservative, antigay and (I swear to god anti-masculinty it seems) feminine individual. I was forced into dresses, and she tried to get me to mold into basic female stereotyped chores like cleaning(?), while I was out in the back yard trying to learn how to start a lawn mower.

Oye this is a lot of stuff that has been in my head for awhile, would like to know myself one day for sure.

Anyone relate or have thoughts?

[Linus]

Hey there,

sorry if this question was already asked, I'm just tired of reading forums, and want to talk about this shit because all I ever think about is gender stuff, and whether I am a butch, or whether I might actually be a dude in 3 years/if I always was a dude. I think its funny that most people at least know what fucking gender they are, despite all their other uncertainties and problems. Not to say that gender issues cause the ultimate suffering, I'm just saying DAMN.

Question 1. Any ftm ever experience absolutely having to buy male only products? This used to drive my gf (now my ex) crazy. Has to be male shampoo, and when I found out I'm itching constantly because of dry skin, I was devastated that I had to go from super manly looking Axe to boring grey gillete, although its still "looks" manly. Its like I'm paranoid of being perceived as feminine?

If I had money and wasn't as aware of my overcompensation, you know that huge F350 going down the road with spikes in the rims and balls hanging and alla that? ...yeah that would be me lol.

Question 2. I've just now started throwing the idea around in my head about transitioning. But, I am a psychologist before any gender lol, and I say this because I heard this rumor (I think off of becoming chaz) that you become more "manlike" with the not listening to your partner's emotional problems and writing them off as illogical and alla that bullshit. (I mean, when you start taking T.) Personally, I think it IS bullshit, because females can be just as non-validating or whatever you want to call that dynamic, as a male. But, if there is any chance at all of me becoming less in tune to what people are feeling, fuck transitioning with a ten foot pole, no freakin way. Psychology is my passion.

Question 3. I have never been around, hung out with, or maybe even held a conversation with a femme. I don't know any femmes. I am attracted to butches and ftms, and I really don't even give a crap if I turn out to be a gay male after transitioning. Whatever. But, what in the world am I going to do if I get a really feminine client? I feel like I have this gaping hole in experiences, and I fear that I might actually have an aversion to feminine females altogether. Or something. What is up with that? Any ftms have this experience?

I don't consciously, intentionally sit here and think "I don't want anything to do with femmes" just to be clear, I just, this second, realized I don't know anyone who is.

I'll be honest and throw out there that my grandma who adopted and raised me was a straight, Conservative, antigay and (I swear to god anti-masculinty it seems) feminine individual. I was forced into dresses, and she tried to get me to mold into basic female stereotyped chores like cleaning(?), while I was out in the back yard trying to learn how to start a lawn mower.

Oye this is a lot of stuff that has been in my head for awhile, would like to know myself one day for sure.

Anyone relate or have thoughts?

1. Yes, i do look for male promoted products. Keep in mind that they aren't "male only". (with the exception of testosterone and the likes of Viagra). They are advertised to male-oriented individuals. As for Axe, they do have quite a few versions for dry skin (http://amzn.to/15j0Yr7) it just may be your local store doesn't carry them or sells out.

2. Yes and no. For the most part you are right that not much changes as a lot of it was before. I did notice one thing in particular: my ability to cry. You know those commercials about animals in need? Those would normally have me bawling. These days not even a twinge. It's really weird and freaked me out the first time. Entirely anecdotal, I've noticed a lack of emotions or a dulling of emotions. Doesn't mean that I don't experience them. I think how we express them does change.

3. You will always have gaping holes in experience because you cannot experience everything that happens in the world. Without knowing your background I can bet you've never experienced my life even if we're both transmen. The more important question, IMO, is the ability to listen and be compassionate, not necessarily shared experience.

Anyways, hope that helps.

[DapperButch]

1. I buy all male products and I am not male (I am TG) There are female ID'd people who buy men's products. There are feminine people who buy men's products. I wouldn't look at this as defined who you are. I have been thinking about gender for 15+ years. Unfortunately, for some of us it is not clear and not binary. Although I love who I am (TG not TS), life would certainly be a lot easier if I just went on hormones. Taking T would fit for me in some ways, in some ways it would not. Top surgery is a different discussion, however.

2. Anecdotal evidence abounds I what Linus said. Emotions are described as being more muted (I am a gender therapist so I see guys pre-T and after), but it is not like compassion and other emotions disappear.

3. I don't really get this not being able to relate to feminine people, and wondering how you would do with a feminine client. You call yourself a psychologist. A psychologist has their doctorate in Psychology. Do you have your Ph.D. or Psy.D. ? I am just confused because I don't know anyone who has even completed even an Associates degree without having worked with clients prior to graduation. :confused:

Good luck on your journey. Sometimes it takes a while. Also, don't forget to step away from it and just live life. I promise it will circle back around!

[Nadeest]

First off, I am an mtf, and femme. In a lot of ways, we are on parallel paths, but with both similarities and differences. I cannot say as to whether you are butch or ftm, as that is something that you will have to discover for yourself.

Question 1: I tend to buy female products only, though, at times, I have been forced to purchase male clothing ( workboots and socks). :(

In one of my culinary classes, I was required to wear black pants, and a white, button down shirt with a tie. This was because I was working as a server, during that class period. I was unable to find any female clothing that would work for me, while fitting the requirements, so I obtained and wore male clothing for that first class. That did not work well for me, at all. I was barely able to handle one table, let alone the three or four tables that was expected of me. It was just very, very difficult for me to function, at all, that day.

The next class period that I had to work as a server, I just plain skipped. I was not about to go anywhere, dressed like that. Fortunately, I was able to find some clothing that would work for me, and still fufill the requirements for the class after that.

My point is, is that I can understand, a tiny bit, of how you feel. In this area, we are similar.

As for Question 2, I suggest that you talk with an experienced gender therapist. They can probably give you some good advice, in this matter.

On Question 3, give yourself time. You will probably start meeting them, if you open yourself to the possibilities. As for what do you do, if you have a femme for a client; what do you do if you have someone with a problem that you have no experience with?

[psykftm]

@Linus: On question number one, true on the "male promoted" verses male only products, I was trying to say that but it didn't come out right; your wording is much better lol

What you said about question 2 really does make me pause for a second. I really don't want anything about how I express my feelings or anything to do with it to change. Thanks for the input, I'm thinking I want to be cautious with that aspect, and do research on it. On question 3, very true, yeah it would suck if I had to experience everything lol.

@Dapperbutch: TG means third gender, and not transgender, right? I have not looked into third gender at all, maybe I should. And dang my wording was all crazy yesterday, I was such a mess-I only have my bachelors in psychology, so fortunately I still have a lot of time to work on myself. I was thinking in the futuristic sense, imagining having a femme client and messing up somehow. I don't think its a realistic fear, unless I'm sexist or something, that would not be good. I don't think I am though...I don't know, I'm still a mess. Your a gender therapist? Pretty cool. I have a therapist, but I don't think she understands, she's not specifically a gender therapist.

The muting of emotions is not comforting, but I've also never experienced it. That is a huge risk to me though. I really don't know how anyone can step away from the gender stuff when you're reminded every freakin day the second someone calls you ma'am or baby or any of that other crap, and anything else that goes along with being a female in society. I hate it. It's not just about social issues for me, its my own body as well. I don't know how to escape this gender stuff.

@Nadeest: thanks for responding! It kills me when you say you've been forced to where mens clothing...if I was ever forced into anything female related again I'd freak out. I'm glad you're able to hang in there. Its such an extreme for me, I piss a lot of people off with that. The server thing...what a nightmare! Dang I wish people would become more gender aware.

A gender therapist would be great, maybe I could find one that has a sliding scale or something, because my insurance won't cover mental related stuff.


Thanks to all of you for responding. I don't know how to reply back all neat and organized, but I definitely have some things to consider.

[DapperButch]

TG means transgender, not third gender. TS means transexual (FTM/MTF)

You can search for a qualified gender therapist here wpath.org

[Nadeest]

You are very welcome, psykbush. I am happy to be able to help you, even a little bit.

You do have a fair possibility of finding a gender therapist that accepts a sliding scale. I've had two of them, so far, since I started transitioning.

TG does mean transgender, as DapperButch mentioned, but there is also another category that people use to describe themselves, at times. This is known as: gender queer. I don't really know how to explain it, though, at least not right now. Perhaps someone that is more articulate then I can step in and explain it for you.

Look, there are prices to pay for every choice that we make. There are also the tiny details that we find out about, AFTER we venture into something new. This is definitely true in transition.

For example, I recently bought a swimsuit for the first time since I transitioned. I tried it out this past weekend, at the park pool. Unfortunately, I stayed too long at the pool and managed to obtain a sunburn (not too severe, fortunately). This suit happened to be a one piece swimsuit.

When I went to put on my bra, yesterday, I encountered one of those tiny little details, I'm afraid. As I'm sure that many of you know, it is absolutely NO fun to wear a bra over a sunburn. :P

Don't worry overmuch about the muting of emotions yet. First, hie thee to a gender therapist to help you sort things out. This will help you gain the information that you seem to need, right now. Then you can begin to make any decisions that are needed.

[psykftm]

"For example, I recently bought a swimsuit for the first time since I transitioned. I tried it out this past weekend, at the park pool. Unfortunately, I stayed too long at the pool and managed to obtain a sunburn (not too severe, fortunately). This suit happened to be a one piece swimsuit.

When I went to put on my bra, yesterday, I encountered one of those tiny little details, I'm afraid. As I'm sure that many of you know, it is absolutely NO fun to wear a bra over a sunburn. :P

Don't worry overmuch about the muting of emotions yet. First, hie thee to a gender therapist to help you sort things out. This will help you gain the information that you seem to need, right now. Then you can begin to make any decisions that are needed."

lol on the sunburn, very true. And yeah I wish I would stop stressing myself sleepless over stuff that is 50 steps ahead of myself right now. I looked up the wpath site, but only listed therapists are all the way out in tampa and places far like that, none close to cocoa. I'm hoping my regular therapist will be able to help me through some of it, at least a good vent.

thanks,
-psykbutch

[psykftm]

Hi there,

was curious if anyone went through this aspect of transitioning too...

I have someone in my life who is extremely supportive, and he is actively calling me "he", and "sir" and "young man". So for the first time I'm kinda experimenting with what that feels like for me.

Right now I feel "out of body" with it. I feel angry when someone refers to me as a women, but better and neutral when someone calls me he (unless they truly don't know I'm a female, then I'm really happy). I don't know if that makes any sense.

I guess my question would be, how did it happen that people would refer to you by your preferred/true gender? How did you feel when they started calling you he instead of she, or she instead of he? Who did you tell first? Very curious about anything to do with that experience.

I keep comparing myself to other ftm's I've been acquainted with, they've known since birth and always felt comfortable...from 0-18 though I was raised by grandparents that didn't allow for expression at all, so I'm just now getting to know myself. I actually feel a bit scared when this person calls me he. I don't want to let this person down when he's all sayin "I know your a man". It feels great to hear it, but it also makes me nervous too. Anyone who is now transitioned ever experience that?

There's 19million questions in here, don't think I can help it though lol.
Take care,
-psykbutch

[DapperButch]

"For example, I recently bought a swimsuit for the first time since I transitioned. I tried it out this past weekend, at the park pool. Unfortunately, I stayed too long at the pool and managed to obtain a sunburn (not too severe, fortunately). This suit happened to be a one piece swimsuit.

When I went to put on my bra, yesterday, I encountered one of those tiny little details, I'm afraid. As I'm sure that many of you know, it is absolutely NO fun to wear a bra over a sunburn. :P

Don't worry overmuch about the muting of emotions yet. First, hie thee to a gender therapist to help you sort things out. This will help you gain the information that you seem to need, right now. Then you can begin to make any decisions that are needed."

lol on the sunburn, very true. And yeah I wish I would stop stressing myself sleepless over stuff that is 50 steps ahead of myself right now. I looked up the wpath site, but only listed therapists are all the way out in tampa and places far like that, none close to cocoa. I'm hoping my regular therapist will be able to help me through some of it, at least a good vent.

thanks,
-psykbutch

Hey, psykbutch.

I would suggest contacting the WPATH therapists you found in FL. Ask them if they know of anyone in your area who has worked with transgender people. There are therapists out there who have experience, but don't specialize in gender therapy. The WPATH members may know about them.

Venting to your current therapist is good, but if you were to begin to really consider transitioning, I would strongly suggest seeing a gender therapist if at all possible. I have had/have clients who travel over 2 hours to see me because there is no one in their current area and they went as far as they could (their process), with their current therapist.

Good luck.

[DapperButch]

I actually feel a bit scared when this person calls me he. I don't want to let this person down when he's all sayin "I know your a man". It feels great to hear it, but it also makes me nervous too. Anyone who is now transitioned ever experience that?


-psykbutch

I'm not exactly sure why it makes you feel anxious when he calls you that. Perhaps because that doesn't totally fit you and so it doesn't "feel right"? You need to listen to your discomfort and gut response.

I think it is important you don't jump to conclusions about yourself and ask that others don't also. There are lots of people that do not fit in the binary. This is one of the first things I say to clients when I first start working with them. People can come to therapy in angst feeling like they must choose. You don't have to choose. You may be neither. You also may be male or female (the opposite of your assigned birth gender), but it may not suit you to "transition". It is important that people do not see the whole process as linear.

A FTM may decide to not go on hormones. A female bodied person who defines as a female, but who is masculine identified, may decide to go on hormones. A butch may get top surgery, but not define as trans in the slightest.

I guess what I am trying to say is that there are variations of gender. Allow yourself to try ALL of them on.

/rambling pontificating

[Nadeest]

It takes time, psykbush. You are just at the very start of your transition, IF you choose to transition; although it sounds as if you are going to do so. This is NOT an instant or overnight process. Hormones do not magically change your body overnight, nor do you adjust to living as a male ( or female) overnight. It takes even longer for people that knew you as one gender, to begin to see you as another gender. This is a case where the safest thing to do is to take baby steps.

WPATH is not the only source of resources out there, to find a gender therapist, although they can certainly help find you a qualified one. You can also check http://www.drbecky.com/therapists.html , Susan's Place, PFLAG, and your local GLBT center.

Trust me, everyone who has transitioned, at least as an adult, has had to deal with people not recognizing us or accepting us, as our proper gender.

Not everyone knows, since birth, that they are a different gender, then what their bodies are. I didn't start figuring things out until I was in my 40's, although some people that were in my life had noticed that there was something about me, that was different from others.

It might be helpful for you to find a support group in your area. Also, feel free to contact me privately, if you wish to do so. I don't have all the answers, by any means, but I will endeavor to help you find them.

[Nadeest]

I'm not exactly sure why it makes you feel anxious when he calls you that. Perhaps because that doesn't totally fit you and so it doesn't "feel right"? You need to listen to your discomfort and gut response.

I think it is important you don't jump to conclusions about yourself and ask that others don't also. There are lots of people that do not fit in the binary. This is one of the first things I say to clients when I first start working with them. People can come to therapy in angst feeling like they must choose. You don't have to choose. You may be neither. You also may be male or female (the opposite of your assigned birth gender), but it may not suit you to "transition". It is important that people do not see the whole process as linear.

A FTM may decide to not go on hormones. A female bodied person who defines as a female, but who is masculine identified, may decide to go on hormones. A butch may get top surgery, but not define as trans in the slightest.

I guess what I am trying to say is that there are variations of gender. Allow yourself to try ALL of them on.

/rambling pontificating

I agree with Dapper on this. This ain't Pleasantville, and you don't HAVE to be either one or the other. Find out what works for you, please.

[DapperButch]

Nadeest, I didn't even think of other lists besides WPATH...duh!

http://www.thetransitionalmale.com/Therapists.html

http://www.lauras-playground.com/gender_therapists.htm

[Corkey]

I'm not exactly sure why it makes you feel anxious when he calls you that. Perhaps because that doesn't totally fit you and so it doesn't "feel right"? You need to listen to your discomfort and gut response.

I think it is important you don't jump to conclusions about yourself and ask that others don't also. There are lots of people that do not fit in the binary. This is one of the first things I say to clients when I first start working with them. People can come to therapy in angst feeling like they must choose. You don't have to choose. You may be neither. You also may be male or female (the opposite of your assigned birth gender), but it may not suit you to "transition". It is important that people do not see the whole process as linear.

A FTM may decide to not go on hormones. A female bodied person who defines as a female, but who is masculine identified, may decide to go on hormones. A butch may get top surgery, but not define as trans in the slightest.

I guess what I am trying to say is that there are variations of gender. Allow yourself to try ALL of them on.

/rambling pontificating

Precisely why I find the binary to be flawed. Humans are complicated creatures and no one human is going to be just like another. We all grow into our skin differently. Which is why I prefer the circle where we all come from and return to. The binary is too constrained to hold the vast array of human nature.

[Nadeest]

DrBeckysList has a lot of useful information and links in it, in addition to the lists of therapists, just so y'all know. I really like some of her articles that are linked there.

[harleycat]

Got a question for you, Leigh... why do you have down that you're femme but yet you posted that you are an out FTM?

[DapperButch]

Got a question for you... why do you have down that you're femme but yet you posted that you are an out FTM?

Who are you talking to?

[harleycat]

Dapper butch... I edited it to add th name...it was too Leigh..I'm new here and getting used to this place..lol

[Corkey]

Genders being fluid, that circle thing. I've known Leigh thru several of her markers. I accept who ever she decides she is at anytime she declares who she is. I've known of her sense the dash site. I don't judge who she is, no matter her marker, she is a human being.

[Greyson]

I'm not exactly sure why it makes you feel anxious when he calls you that. Perhaps because that doesn't totally fit you and so it doesn't "feel right"? You need to listen to your discomfort and gut response.

I think it is important you don't jump to conclusions about yourself and ask that others don't also. There are lots of people that do not fit in the binary. This is one of the first things I say to clients when I first start working with them. People can come to therapy in angst feeling like they must choose. You don't have to choose. You may be neither. You also may be male or female (the opposite of your assigned birth gender), but it may not suit you to "transition". It is important that people do not see the whole process as linear.

A FTM may decide to not go on hormones. A female bodied person who defines as a female, but who is masculine identified, may decide to go on hormones. A butch may get top surgery, but not define as trans in the slightest.

I guess what I am trying to say is that there are variations of gender. Allow yourself to try ALL of them on.

/rambling pontificating

Dapper, the portion of your post that I highlighted above is the one notion I disagree with. A butch can be Transgender. When you said "Trans"n did you mean Transexual? For me, I am unsure if top surgery and hormones, testosterone, qualifies everyone as transexual. I like some others here see the binary as "flawed." I think the word "inadequate" is a more appropriate word when speaking about the short comings of the binary.

[agape]

I don't know if I belong to this thread... I consider myself transgender of the "genderfluid variety" which basically means that my gender changes with time/situation/ppl I interact with etc...

I think it's great having a thread like that so that ppl can politely ask questions. Better to ask than to assume things, right? :blush:

[DapperButch]

Dapper, the portion of your post that I highlighted above is the one notion I disagree with. A butch can be Transgender. When you said "Trans"n did you mean Transexual? For me, I am unsure if top surgery and hormones, testosterone, qualifies everyone as transexual. I like some others here see the binary as "flawed." I think the word "inadequate" is a more appropriate word when speaking about the short comings of the binary.

Hi, Greyson. All I was saying is that there are butches that get top surgery that do not define as trans. I was not saying a butch can't be transgender (I am one of them!).

A person is who they tell us they are, not what they do or don't do to their bodies.

Meaning, I agree with you!

What I try to get across to clients is that they DON'T have to fit in the binary. Often gender questioning clients come into my office assuming that they have to fit.

Does this clarify things?

P.S. When I use the word "trans" I am including both transgender people and transsexual people (FTM/MTF). I believe that this is the current accepted meaning behind the use of the term trans in the queer community.

[DapperButch]

I don't know if I belong to this thread... I consider myself transgender of the "genderfluid variety" which basically means that my gender changes with time/situation/ppl I interact with etc...

I think it's great having a thread like that so that ppl can politely ask questions. Better to ask than to assume things, right? :blush:

If you feel like you fit into the thread, than you do!

I am seeing more and more people who define as genderfluid and genderqueer attaching transgender to their identity.

This thread is also a place for people of all identities to ask questions. In fact, that is the point of the thread.

[agape]

If you feel like you fit into the thread, than you do!

I am seeing more and more people who define as genderfluid and genderqueer attaching transgender to their identity.

This thread is also a place for people of all identities to ask questions. In fact, that is the point of the thread.

Thank you so much DapperButch! You are always very helpful and kind :)

I don't know where I feel I fit in but I do feel welcome here, both the thread and the site in general. It means a lot to me cause I don't always feel so welcome in my real-life community...

The term transgender confuses me a bit... The way I understand it is as an umbrella term for many types of identities when someone doesn't feel they fit into their at birth assigned gender. I would be most grateful to hear how ppl from the site read that.

[agape]

I guess I have a few questions that I will start out with, since I know that we have all started somewhere. I'll begin with just a few basic ones:

1) When did you begin feeling like you were different?

2) Did you always know that you should have been born the opposite sex, or did that come abit later though you always knew you were different?

3) When did you decide to come out, and how did you come out?



Questions asked a while ago but I would like to answer them from my perspective...

1) When did you begin feeling like you were different?

I've always been treated in ways that made me feel different but didn't really know why. I couldn't tell why I was being called a tomboy, as a kid I didn't think about gender at all...
When I became a teenager I started thinking about gender and how I felt different amounts of boy/girl, different days. At first I assumed that everyone felt like that ;) lol. I couldn't really grasp the idea of having "only" one gender...
Then it has gotten harder the older I became...

2) Did you always know that you should have been born the opposite sex, or did that come abit later though you always knew you were different?

I've always wanted to be treated like the opposite sex. I don't only mean when it comes to gender equality, I mean for example as a kid wanting to have the same toys as the boys, to play with boys rather than girls etc... I often feel I should have been born a boy, the older I get the more often I feel that... But most of the time I feel I don't truly fit in in the gender binary in general. I feel I'm in between genders...

3) When did you decide to come out, and how did you come out?

I didn't really decide to come out, it sort of happened... I was coming out as gay and realized that there was more to the whole thing... It was really a crisis, it's still not easy at times...
I tried telling some friends I trust but felt pressured to transition and judged about my feminine looks and behavior. It seems hard to explain the concept of "gender-mixture" and "feminine-man" to someone who hasn't experienced it... I have found it can be a bit easier on the internet, but not always...

*posting post keeping fingers crossed hoping that I haven't -without realizing it- said anything that might be offensive to anyone...

[Nadeest]

I don't know if I belong to this thread... I consider myself transgender of the "genderfluid variety" which basically means that my gender changes with time/situation/ppl I interact with etc...

I think it's great having a thread like that so that ppl can politely ask questions. Better to ask than to assume things, right? :blush:

You belong here, agape, and welcome.

[Nadeest]

The way that I understand and use the term 'transgender' is that it is someone who is gendervariant in some way. It is an all inclusive term including, but not limited to: transsexuals, drag queens, drag kings, tranvestites, and genderqueer people. Transsexual, on the other hand, is a much more restricted term, whose meaning is limited to people whose gender identity is different then what is presumed, when looking at their body. However, not everyone in the transgender world agrees with these useages/meanings. Yep, things get kinda confusing around transfolk, sometime. :P

[agape]

I would like to ask a question if anyone would like to give your thoughts about this: I wonder how you view "masculinity" as in clothes, behavior, energy etc in regards to someone identifying as male (I realize that what is considered "masculine" is relative but still...).
For example: how would you view a person identifying as male but still behaving/dressing in feminine ways, would you consider that confusing? The reason I ask is because I have encountered this issue when discussing transgender-issues, that gender and gender expression seem to be viewed by many ppl as almost one and the same. So when someone id's as male they are expected to dress, behave in a masculine way. (The same when someone id's as female...)
Personally, after both my own inner journey and also after doing some research/reading, I feel that gender and gender expression are two separate things... Meaning that it's possible for someone to id as male and still be very feminine.
I also feel that masculinity and femininity are more of a sort of energy/personality and don't have much to do with clothes, haircut and so on (but it could of course be expressed through those things).
I'm very curious to hear what others think about this!:glasses:

[macele]

Got a question for you, Leigh... why do you have down that you're femme but yet you posted that you are an out FTM?



what agape and harleycat have questions about, ... seem to be along the same lines. which is, a person can be butch or femme and male.

i'm hope i'm not out of place.

[DapperButch]

I would like to ask a question if anyone would like to give your thoughts about this: I wonder how you view "masculinity" as in clothes, behavior, energy etc in regards to someone identifying as male (I realize that what is considered "masculine" is relative but still...).
For example: how would you view a person identifying as male but still behaving/dressing in feminine ways, would you consider that confusing? The reason I ask is because I have encountered this issue when discussing transgender-issues, that gender and gender expression seem to be viewed by many ppl as almost one and the same. So when someone id's as male they are expected to dress, behave in a masculine way. (The same when someone id's as female...)
Personally, after both my own inner journey and also after doing some research/reading, I feel that gender and gender expression are two separate things... Meaning that it's possible for someone to id as male and still be very feminine.
I also feel that masculinity and femininity are more of a sort of energy/personality and don't have much to do with clothes, haircut and so on (but it could of course be expressed through those things).
I'm very curious to hear what others think about this!:glasses:

I agree with you. Male does not = masculine nor Female = feminine. Therefore, yes a male can be feminine.

what agape and harleycat have questions about, ... seem to be along the same lines. which is, a person can be butch or femme and male.

i'm hope i'm not out of place.

Some people say that the terms butch and femme should be reserved for the butch/femme community, but there are gay males who define as "butch", but it is a different type of butch.

Leigh's issue is not the same thing. Her sex/gender has shifted since the beginning of this thread. Perhaps she will come in and explain.

[Corkey]

I would like to ask a question if anyone would like to give your thoughts about this: I wonder how you view "masculinity" as in clothes, behavior, energy etc in regards to someone identifying as male (I realize that what is considered "masculine" is relative but still...).
For example: how would you view a person identifying as male but still behaving/dressing in feminine ways, would you consider that confusing? The reason I ask is because I have encountered this issue when discussing transgender-issues, that gender and gender expression seem to be viewed by many ppl as almost one and the same. So when someone id's as male they are expected to dress, behave in a masculine way. (The same when someone id's as female...)
Personally, after both my own inner journey and also after doing some research/reading, I feel that gender and gender expression are two separate things... Meaning that it's possible for someone to id as male and still be very feminine.
I also feel that masculinity and femininity are more of a sort of energy/personality and don't have much to do with clothes, haircut and so on (but it could of course be expressed through those things).
I'm very curious to hear what others think about this!:glasses:

Cloths don't make the person. One can be male ID'd and still wear whatever the hell one wants. When we as a society make cloths more important than people we fail at being humans. Labels are just a way of putting people into boxes. I don't fit nicely into boxes. Many here sure don't fit well into boxes, but how one self identifies is their business. I'll respect however one ID's, that's my responsibility as a human being.
Self discovery means that gender is fluid, and being fluid ones gender can not be boxed. Be who you are, however that expression develops, you are the master of your life. I obviously don't pay much attention to what other people think when it comes to how I express myself. That comes with being comfortable in my own skin, your milage may vary.

[Sheridan]

1) When did you begin feeling like you were different?

I personally never felt like a little girl when I was a very young child. I did not like dresses or the color pink. I was into toy cars and trucks; I had no interests in dolls. Girls were playing house, dress-up, and were having tea parties and loved everything that was non-active play. I was playing cops and robbers or superheroes, climbing stuff (swings, trees, monkey bars, jumping off things…), I ran and played outside all day long, and rode my bicycle everywhere (it was my favorite thing that was mine). I still have the old bike and it shows every scar of experience (especially the wrecks). I watched action and science fiction TV shows while my girlfriends watched shows on girl stuff and how to be more feminine that I had no interest in. I loved science and finding out how things work (my mother's alarm clocks and my hand-held radios were just some of the victims). Going through puberty was not a happy time for me but I was lucky (I got small breasts and no PMS).

As an adult my behavior did not changed. I still dress only in male clothing. I am not into shoes (I have a couple of pairs of tennis shoes, a pair of dress shoes, and a pair of good boots that is all, simple). I am not into sharing my feelings (not a talker), though I can be caring if someone needs me. I am still a science geek. I still do not like any activities deemed feminine. I am still a very physical person (bicycling, weightlifting, walking, running, aerobics, yoga…) And if I do not have some time outside, I feel hyper and I do not feel well. I do not enjoy shopping (I find it a horrible chore) . I still watch science fiction and action TV shows and movies.

2) Did you always know that you should have been born the opposite sex, or did that come abit later though you always knew you were different?

Yes, for many internal and external facts:

Biological: Though, I have functioning female organs I have not had any of the hormonal side effects or pain that naturally comes from having them. I have never had PMS, I have light period, my uterus is smaller than normal, I have never had uncontrolled weight gain and gain muscle quickly instead…Nothing says it’s a true female body and it’s like my body is not really preparing for reproduction just faking it (I think my brain and body processes testosterone and estrogen differently giving me my own unique balance or something). I have never been tested and they say some differences cannot be found until an autopsy on the brain and reproductive organs are done (not wanting one of those).

Behavior: I have never acted feminine at anything. I am an alpha personality.

Society: I have been mistaken for a boy or a man all my life and I fit none of the gender roles that society puts on the female gender.

3) When did you decide to come out, and how did you come out?

I do not think I have ever been in. I either have been seen as a very butch lesbian or a boy or man (which I prefer, but the butch lesbian thing does not insult me either).

[always2late]

I have a question...and I guess this is the forum to ask...I recently started grad school (yay!). Although classes started earlier this week, our class orientation for my cohort was today. During orientation we were taught how to use a new computer system contracted by the school in order to keep track of our clinical hours. As a Speech-language Pathology grad student, I will be seeing clients in a variety of settings. The new computer program allows us to enter information about the client, such as age, gender, etc... When it came to the prompt for gender, there was a drop down box containing the three acceptable responses. They were "male," "female," and "transgender." So...my question is, do you think this is appropriate? My thoughts on the matter are that if your client states they are male, or female, shouldn't that be how you identify their gender? Is it necessary to identify them as transgender when they identify as a particular gender? What are your thoughts?

[DJ4321]

I'm in the same boat

[Liam]

I have a question...and I guess this is the forum to ask...I recently started grad school (yay!). Although classes started earlier this week, our class orientation for my cohort was today. During orientation we were taught how to use a new computer system contracted by the school in order to keep track of our clinical hours. As a Speech-language Pathology grad student, I will be seeing clients in a variety of settings. The new computer program allows us to enter information about the client, such as age, gender, etc... When it came to the prompt for gender, there was a drop down box containing the three acceptable responses. They were "male," "female," and "transgender." So...my question is, do you think this is appropriate? My thoughts on the matter are that if your client states they are male, or female, shouldn't that be how you identify their gender? Is it necessary to identify them as transgender when they identify as a particular gender? What are your thoughts?

Perhaps the school is tracking this population for potential income and/or services that might be available in the future. With the recent overturn with Medicaid regarding medical transitional services, I can see where there might be federal funding available for transgender folks, in the near future. My other thought is that perhaps they are trying to address students who have not transitioned physically and/or they are intersexed or don't necessarily feel comfortable with the usual two choices for gender. In my experience there are more and more transgender folks preferring the gender neutral pronoun, they.

[DapperButch]

Hi, always2late, good to see you!

I think I am a bit thrown off. If this is for tracking clinical hours, isn't this something you fill in yourself after seeing the client? Is there a reason why you can't identify them in the way that they identify?

There are certainly people who after they "transition' (however they define that word), no longer identify as transgender as they see that as a brigde to male or female. Once they cross that bridge, so to speak, the term transgender no longer applies (I think this is what you were referring to).

As an aside, I'm surprised they didn't use the term "other". Liam referenced intersex folks and my experience is that many of them do not identify as transgender and would prefer the option "other" (along with all the other sexual minority groups who use bigender, non-binary, etc).

Interesting stuff.

[*Anya*]

Perhaps the school is tracking this population for potential income and/or services that might be available in the future. With the recent overturn with Medicaid regarding medical transitional services, I can see where there might be federal funding available for transgender folks, in the near future. My other thought is that perhaps they are trying to address students who have not transitioned physically and/or they are intersexed or don't necessarily feel comfortable with the usual two choices for gender. In my experience there are more and more transgender folks preferring the gender neutral pronoun, they.


Ban lifting applies to Medicare, not Medicaid-at least for now

The appeals board's decisions are binding on HHS unless they are appealed in federal court. The Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services, the agency within HHS that manages Medicare, opted not to defend the transgender surgery exclusion before the five-member board and had initiated the process for lifting it on its own before Mallon filed her complaint.

The ruling does not apply to Medicaid, which provides health coverage for individuals and families with low-incomes and is regulated by the states. Some states have exclusions on sex reassignment surgeries and the sex hormones transgender people often take during their transitions, while others evaluate claims on a case-by-case basis.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/medicare-ban-on-sex-reassignment-surgery-lifted/

[Martina]

My assumption is that you shouldn't second guess your clients. If they say, male, then it's male. If they say female, then it's female. If they say something else, then transgender would be the umbrella term. I don't think you're supposed to choose transgender just because you can see or you guess that someone is trans. Just go down the questionnaire and ask, "Do you ID as male, female, or transgender?" Most people will answer with a "duh" in their tone. But so what?

I cannot imagine why this is relevant to speech pathology, but whatever. Good luck with your program. We need more SLPs out there.

[Martina]

Ban lifting applies to Medicare, not Medicaid-at least for now

The appeals board's decisions are binding on HHS unless they are appealed in federal court. The Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services, the agency within HHS that manages Medicare, opted not to defend the transgender surgery exclusion before the five-member board and had initiated the process for lifting it on its own before Mallon filed her complaint.

The ruling does not apply to Medicaid, which provides health coverage for individuals and families with low-incomes and is regulated by the states. Some states have exclusions on sex reassignment surgeries and the sex hormones transgender people often take during their transitions, while others evaluate claims on a case-by-case basis.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/medicare-ban-on-sex-reassignment-surgery-lifted/

I heard on the radio that it applies to people who get their insurance because they receive disability? I thought that was medicaid too. But that's what I heard.

[DapperButch]

I heard on the radio that it applies to people who get their insurance because they receive disability? I thought that was medicaid too. But that's what I heard.

Medicare is for the disabled and those over age 65. Medicaid is for the indigent, it has nothing to do with one's health.

Regardless, I think that Liam meant Medicare when he said Medicaid.

[Corkey]

This just in:
http://www.washingtonblade.com/2014/05/30/medicare-lift-ban-gender-reassignment-surgery/

[Greyson]

I have a question...and I guess this is the forum to ask...I recently started grad school (yay!). Although classes started earlier this week, our class orientation for my cohort was today. During orientation we were taught how to use a new computer system contracted by the school in order to keep track of our clinical hours. As a Speech-language Pathology grad student, I will be seeing clients in a variety of settings. The new computer program allows us to enter information about the client, such as age, gender, etc... When it came to the prompt for gender, there was a drop down box containing the three acceptable responses. They were "male," "female," and "transgender." So...my question is, do you think this is appropriate? My thoughts on the matter are that if your client states they are male, or female, shouldn't that be how you identify their gender? Is it necessary to identify them as transgender when they identify as a particular gender? What are your thoughts?

Hi always. Congratulations on begging Graduate school. I have just completed my first year in a very progressive seminary where we have many Trans students. Many of the students use various gender identifications such as gender queer, transmasculine, transman, male, transwoman, woman. I have transmen friends that what to be identified as Trans even though they are now legally identified as "male." I also know men that were born in a female body have transitioned and refer to their gender as male. I also know another transguy that has transitioned and still identifies as butch.

If I were in your position, I would identify their gender as they identify their gender. If they say they are male then they are male. If they say they are a transman, then trangender would be appropriate. If genderqueer, then perhaps male and female? If you are unsure as to what box to fill in, tell them what the options are on the form you are filling out and ask them would they choose any one or a number of the boxes. I hope this helps.

[*Anya*]

I heard on the radio that it applies to people who get their insurance because they receive disability? I thought that was medicaid too. But that's what I heard.

If you are on Medicare because of a (Social Security Disability or SSD) disability, this would apply to *you*.

Medicaid or in California, Medi-Cal; are need/income based.

They are two separate programs though a person could have Medicare and Medicaid at the same time.

My parents are on Medicare but do not qualify for Medicaid as their income is higher than the criteria.

As far as the ban lifting, so far, it is just Medicare , not Medicaid but it may not be far behind.

It is a beginning and for that; I am glad.

Medicare vs. Medicaid, is very confusing and hopefully I got it right-anyone with a better understanding, please jump in.

[DapperButch]

Anya, you got it right.

[Greyson]

Hi always. Congratulations on begging Graduate school. I have just completed my first year in a very progressive seminary where we have many Trans students. Many of the students use various gender identifications such as gender queer, transmasculine, transman, male, transwoman, woman. I have transmen friends that what to be identified as Trans even though they are now legally identified as "male." I also know men that were born in a female body have transitioned and refer to their gender as male. I also know another transguy that has transitioned and still identifies as butch.

If I were in your position, I would identify their gender as they identify their gender. If they say they are male then they are male. If they say they are a transman, then trangender would be appropriate. If genderqueer, then perhaps male and female? If you are unsure as to what box to fill in, tell them what the options are on the form you are filling out and ask them would they choose any one or a number of the boxes. I hope this helps.

After one year of graduate school and writing papers all year using Chicago style, I am embarrassed to see just how many spelling and grammatical errors were in my post. It was late.

[EnderD_503]

I have a question...and I guess this is the forum to ask...I recently started grad school (yay!). Although classes started earlier this week, our class orientation for my cohort was today. During orientation we were taught how to use a new computer system contracted by the school in order to keep track of our clinical hours. As a Speech-language Pathology grad student, I will be seeing clients in a variety of settings. The new computer program allows us to enter information about the client, such as age, gender, etc... When it came to the prompt for gender, there was a drop down box containing the three acceptable responses. They were "male," "female," and "transgender." So...my question is, do you think this is appropriate? My thoughts on the matter are that if your client states they are male, or female, shouldn't that be how you identify their gender? Is it necessary to identify them as transgender when they identify as a particular gender? What are your thoughts?

I think its only right to identify a client as transgender if they explicitly identify themselves that way or say they're comfortable being identified that way on the drop down. Could be some trans people would prefer to just put in the sex they identify as rather than just "transgender." Some might like it, others might not.

But overall I think those drop down options are limited. Putting someone simply down as "transgender" isn't going to tell much about them as far as their identity to begin with, since many people under the trans umbrella will identify as transmale/transfemale/gender neutral/genderqueer. A lot of places seem to be changing their options to put in a transgender one, but I really think it needs to be expanded beyond that, otherwise its pretty pointless and almost stigmatising in my opinion. What I like at a few clinics I've been to lately is that they let you pen in your own identity under some kind of "other" option. So you basically get to put in whatever detail you feel comfortable with, if you feel like it at all. Others will actually have trans man, trans woman, intersex and gender queer/gender neutral categories in addition to male/female. I think that's better as it doesn't just lump all trans people into a faceless "transgender" category.

[Corkey]

http://www.hrc.org/blog/entry/new-york-state-assembly-passes-gender-expression-non-discrimination-act

[Greyson]

What I have in the title is what I read on my discharge papers from a recent hospital stay. This hospital is located in Berkeley, CA. Berkeley the alleged land of Progressives.

I was baffled when I read this. All of my I.D. says "Male." I always identify when asked or I volunteer the information as Transgender. I never refer to myself as a transsexual. Just my preference. Does not have to be yours. I also never refer to myself as "Female." If I did see myself as 100% woman, I would say, I am a woman, not "female." I let them know I am transgender because I want the authorities and others to know I am not a cisman. I always clarify, "I am legally a male."

For me it is frustrating at times. I do not think gender is restricted to only two genders and many of us are Trans with varying degrees of femininity and masculinity.

I never thought I would feel this way, but I am getting tired of trying to fit into a defined box. I am a person and I am Queer. Thanks for letting me rant.

[firegal]

What I have in the title is what I read on my discharge papers from a recent hospital stay. This hospital is located in Berkeley, CA. Berkeley the alleged land of Progressives.

I was baffled when I read this. All of my I.D. says "Male." I always identify when asked or I volunteer the information as Transgender. I never refer to myself as a transsexual. Just my preference. Does not have to be yours. I also never refer to myself as "Female." If I did see myself as 100% woman, I would say, I am a woman, not "female." I let them know I am transgender because I want the authorities and others to know I am not a cisman. I always clarify, "I am legally a male."

For me it is frustrating at times. I do not think gender is restricted to only two genders and many of us are Trans with varying degrees of femininity and masculinity.

I never thought I would feel this way, but I am getting tired of trying to fit into a defined box. I am a person and I am Queer. Thanks for letting me rant.

Grey you are my bro.....as in bromance! Love and respect you brother...and say hi to your sweet wonderfull wife!

terry

[EnderD_503]

What I have in the title is what I read on my discharge papers from a recent hospital stay. This hospital is located in Berkeley, CA. Berkeley the alleged land of Progressives.

I was baffled when I read this. All of my I.D. says "Male." I always identify when asked or I volunteer the information as Transgender. I never refer to myself as a transsexual. Just my preference. Does not have to be yours. I also never refer to myself as "Female." If I did see myself as 100% woman, I would say, I am a woman, not "female." I let them know I am transgender because I want the authorities and others to know I am not a cisman. I always clarify, "I am legally a male."

For me it is frustrating at times. I do not think gender is restricted to only two genders and many of us are Trans with varying degrees of femininity and masculinity.

I never thought I would feel this way, but I am getting tired of trying to fit into a defined box. I am a person and I am Queer. Thanks for letting me rant.

Sorry you had that experience, Greyson, that really sucks! :( Hospitals here are like that as well. Really wish the medical community would get their shit together, and especially since your legal id has been amended!

Edit: one thing I don't understand at some clinics here. Some of them now do actually give you options on your records to tick what you identify as, but then on the front of your record they put the sex you were assigned at birth. For example, one clinic I went to let me check male and trans, but then on the front of my records put female. I just wonder what the point is of them giving you the option (for people who don't have their id changed) when they aren't going to use that information.

[LoyalWolfsBlade]

Hi always and everyone else. As fir your male, female, transgender question personally I find transgender to be an umbrella politically correct word that feels as if it is forced on us. There is a time and place to be PC however even then you. (a general you) should always take the persons whishes into account.

Again this is just personally to me and my beliefs I am offended by the term transgender and no one has a right to tell anyone I am not a male. After all I have fought all my life to be seen by others the way I see myself, as a male. That is why I use FtM and not trans at this stage of my medical transition simply because it is honest. Once I have completed the process I will identify myself as male. Period. At that point it will be me that decides who knows and when they know that I am not a cis-male. As far as the government is concerned I am already legally a male at least on my government ids and just waiting on the birth certificate decision to take the final step.

So as for your question I think the best answer is to check whichever one the client tells you. Couldn't you ask how do you id instead of what is your gender? I do think if they include transgender as an option they should also include other with a space to expand on that. In my experience more and more younger "transgender" folks identify mote along the spectrum of two spirit and the older ones like myself stick to the terms we grew up with whether that is FtM or MtF.

~Alix~

[LoyalWolfsBlade]

Sorry you had that experience, Greyson, that really sucks! :( Hospitals here are like that as well. Really wish the medical community would get their shit together, and especially since your legal id has been amended!

Edit: one thing I don't understand at some clinics here. Some of them now do actually give you options on your records to tick what you identify as, but then on the front of your record they put the sex you were assigned at birth. For example, one clinic I went to let me check male and trans, but then on the front of my records put female. I just wonder what the point is of them giving you the option (for people who don't have their id changed) when they aren't going to use that information.

My guess would be that the birth gender is used for insurance purpose, so they match and the actually gender you use is for them on how to address you. I sure wish more places made that simple effort. Even in Oregon they had to pit the gender on your birth certificate on all official paper work. Simply bcs of insurance at least that is how my doctor explained it. However my doctor did refer to me with make pronouns through out my chart and on all correspondence that I requested from her, I was lucky that way.

[DapperButch]

Ender, I can see where they would leave Female on you chart if you are not "legally" male, as Knightsblade says, for insurance purposes. They need to bill with the legal sex. But, does it need to be on the front of the chart? I don't see why that is necessary.

They ask for your preferred pronoun/gender somewhere else in the chart because:
a) they want you to feel comfortable
b) they want to pretend like they give want you to feel comfortable so that they "look good" (for political reasons, such as HRC's health index ratings).




My guess would be that the birth gender is used for insurance purpose, so they match and the actually gender you use is for them on how to address you. I sure wish more places made that simple effort. Even in Oregon they had to pit the gender on your birth certificate on all official paper work. Simply bcs of insurance at least that is how my doctor explained it. However my doctor did refer to me with make pronouns through out my chart and on all correspondence that I requested from her, I was lucky that way.

[EnderD_503]

Ender, I can see where they would leave Female on you chart if you are not "legally" male, as Knightsblade says, for insurance purposes. They need to bill with the legal sex. But, does it need to be on the front of the chart? I don't see why that is necessary.

They ask for your preferred pronoun/gender somewhere else in the chart because:
a) they want you to feel comfortable
b) they want to pretend like they give want you to feel comfortable so that they "look good" (for political reasons, such as HRC's health index ratings).

Not so much that its in my file at all, so much as it being on the front of the chart with my name. They take your Health Card when you first go, so they have all the info on the Health Card as well, but to me if they're going to ask at all they can at least have the courtesy to include what you wrote on the initial form. There are some clinics that do that and there are no problems. For example, Hassle Free Clinic here doesn't even require your Ontario Health Card to see a doctor and will allow trans people to put the gender they identify as regardless of legal status. And even though they have sex-segregated (deals primarily with sexual health) hours they'll allow trans guys to go to the men's hours and vice versa for trans women.

I can understand having the sex you were assigned at birth somewhere inside the file with general info about you, but at the very least they could also include male/transgender on the front since they asked for that information specifically and would actually be important for the doctor/nurse who calls you in to see before they say "Mr./Mrs. xyz" (had this experience when I went for an ultra sound just recently. The doctor herself was fine because she'd actually looked inside the file, but the nurse just kind of walked out and called for Mrs. xyz because its on the front of the file.

[DapperButch]

I can understand having the sex you were assigned at birth somewhere inside the file with general info about you, but at the very least they could also include male/transgender on the front since they asked for that information specifically and would actually be important for the doctor/nurse who calls you in to see before they say "Mr./Mrs. xyz" (had this experience when I went for an ultra sound just recently. The doctor herself was fine because she'd actually looked inside the file, but the nurse just kind of walked out and called for Mrs. xyz because its on the front of the file.

Oh, I absolutely agree with you that your preferred name/gender be placed on the front of the chart so that the above crap does not happen.

Sorry you had to deal with that.

[Nadeest]

I do think that you should give the client the option to say how they define themselves, on that form. Why don't you just ask them, then , when going to the menu to set it down, leave it blank, and make a note elsewhere on the form, as to what your clients defines themselves as?

You might have to go to the appropriate authorities to get this change into the system, but I submit that it is worth it. For example, if someone is identifying as 'genderqueer', I really don't think that it is a good way to build trust between you two, by misidentifying them.

Thank you very much, though, for asking this question.

[LoyalWolfsBlade]

Ok I have a question or two. Bear with me if I word it wrong.
It has been some years now since I have had to deal with the medical profession in a state where sexuality nevermind being FtM is not protected from discrimination. Well that is what I am facing here in Georgia.

So my question is how would you approach a new doctor knowing this and needing to make sure you find one un a timely manner since I only have enough T to last me a couple of months. In Oregon my gp handled my T and all the follow up for being on it. Also will I have to get another therapist letter even though I have been on T for a year with both a letter and signed informed consent.

If I rambled to much and you're not sure what I am asking please just let me know. Thanks for reading my question.

[EnderD_503]

Ok I have a question or two. Bear with me if I word it wrong.
It has been some years now since I have had to deal with the medical profession in a state where sexuality nevermind being FtM is not protected from discrimination. Well that is what I am facing here in Georgia.

So my question is how would you approach a new doctor knowing this and needing to make sure you find one un a timely manner since I only have enough T to last me a couple of months. In Oregon my gp handled my T and all the follow up for being on it. Also will I have to get another therapist letter even though I have been on T for a year with both a letter and signed informed consent.

If I rambled to much and you're not sure what I am asking please just let me know. Thanks for reading my question.

There are a few ways you could go about finding a new doctor. There are some resources you could use online. FTM International might be a good place to start for you if you haven't already found a trans community near you that could help you out.

http://www.ftmi.org/3meetings.htm

In the above section they list groups that meet in Georgia, US so you could always attend a meeting and ask around there. I think FMI also have an online group that you can join and ask around for doctor recommendations in your area.

There are also active forums like http://www.susans.org/forums/index.php
and http://forum.lauras-playground.com/forums/index.php that have active trans guy/FTM forums where you can ask around. A lot of the membership there are pretty US-based so you could find some good doctor recommendations there if you open up a thread and ask, or at the very least be given some resources for your state.

[DapperButch]

Ender gave you a lot of good information. You shouldn't need another letter if you are already on T. I would suspect whatever PCP you get will keep writing the scripts. You could contact one of the GA therapists at www.wpath.org and they should be able to refer you to an Endo n ear you that works with trans people. Another idea is to contact an LGBT organization in your area or PFLAG. I really dont think you will have a hard time with your PCP. When you get the list of PCPs for yout insurance, contact each one of them and ask i f that doc will keep your script going. Pick that person to be your new PCP

[Nadeest]

Try: http://www.drbecky.com/therapists.html . Once you find a nearby therapist, on that list, contact them and ask for a recommendation for a doctor that will likely be willing to care for you. Hopefully, this will help.

[deb0670]

Hi, i know i do not frequent this forum, however, our youngest daughter just came out to us as an FTM. Thankfully, Ethan has been an FTM for many years already and has been able to talk with our son about his transition some.. but as his mom.. i want to be as supportive as possible. I had my daughter for 17 years.. changing the mindset and pronouns is a little hard for me. I am seeing our son feel better and he says he is more comfortable in his own skin since Ethan and i have accepted him. I guess the reason why i am writing this is.. even though i love our son no matter what.. i am having a hard time wrapping my head around what to say or help him say anything to my family about it. I just recently came out to my mom and told her the truth about Ethan and me.. because my then daughter wanted to come out to my mom about her and her girlfriend, and i was not going to just throw her under the bus. It took a lot for my mom to accept everything, and with great effort.... now.. she has to face that she only has one granddaughter and two grandsons... instead of the other way around. I do not know how the rest of my family is going to handle it. Also.. Even though i truly love my son, and will support him no matter what..
i am going to miss my daughter. Is this wrong?
Sorry for the babbling..

[Gemme]

i am going to miss my daughter. Is this wrong?


I'm not trans and this is the 'ask a trans person' thread but I feel strongly about this, so hopefully no one will mind my interjection too much.

deb, you won't miss your daughter. You'll miss the social expectations that come with having a daughter as well as the hopes and dreams you designed for your child at birth and through the formative years. And that will take some time to shed. But you get to form new hopes and dreams now! Ones based on your child's desires and hopes and those are best ones, yes?

Your child is your child. Period. That PERSON doesn't change but the social expectations will. Truth be told, you always had two sons. One just dressed in drag for 17 years. :)

You're a darling person, deb, and the best advice I can give as someone who has no right (neither a parent nor trans) to give advice on this topic, is to do what you and Ethan are already doing. Be open-minded with your son. Kids are resilient, especially when they have a good support system. Sit down with him and maybe make a ritual of switching things over.....like putting out new family photos or reworking the family album. I'd journal for yourself and ask your son if he'd like to do that on his own too. He'd be able to look back and see that X was hard but he made it through so Y and Z won't be so bad either. Don't hide your personal process from him but don't let him feel guilty about it either. None of that "I'm losing a daughter" stuff. You're gaining a child who is more self-confident, happier and more in control of their life. That's the type of kid that can make it through anything life throws at him.

Congrats!

[DapperButch]

deb,

I have a couple of thoughts.

First of all, it is normal to have loss about losing a daughter. Yes, your child is still the same person, but if indeed your child is FTM, there is loss around what you expected for their life (the social things Gemme mentioned). In my work with adolescents and their parents, I find that this is where parents feel guilt. They feel guilty for feeling loss. Well, guess what? It IS a loss. Don't feel like you aren't accepting your child's gender identity just because you are grieving who you thought them to be. It is normal. Just like it is for the spouse of an adult who is changing their sex.


I think that the MOST IMPORTANT thing you can do for your child is to find a therapist that specializes in gender issues. As you know, often masculinity can get conflated with males (we need to look no further than our female butches and the frustration they face with this). It is important that your child separate out gender expression (masculinity) from gender/sex (male).

As a gender therapist, I always make sure with every client that they put this into perspective (adults as well as adolescents). My thought is that with having a FTM in the home, your child would have even more of a hard time seeing how a masculinity does not = male. Your child's example (in their young brain) is that a female changes gender if they are masculine.

Now, one of the positives of Ethan being in your child's life is that he can talk with your child about gender expression (masculinity) versus gender/sex (male) in a way that other paretns cannot, but I still think there are discussions that can be had with a therapist that one can't have with their parent. Additionally, there could be issues around your child having a desire to connect with Ethan more, to have a "sameness" that masculine individuals desire to have with the masculine parent, so that can be impacting your child's desire/thinking that they are male, also.

Please don't hear the above as me questioning your child's gender identity. Lord knows I would be the last person to do this, but I believe that due diligence is important with all trans individuals, but again, I believe that your child is in a special situation (one, on the whole, I think they are lucky to have - a FTM in their household).

Check out www.wpath.org and click on the provider tab to find a qualified gender therapist (and the list/link that Nadeest provided). I think that most states are represented. Contact that person. Even if they are too far away or don't take your child's insurance, ask them for the name of someone who is closer to you and might. Even if that person doesn't take your child's insurance, THEY might know someone who does. Even if you are told that so and so therapist only sees adults, call them anyway. Your child is 17, so they may make an exception (hell, that is how I started treating a 15 year old).

I would suggest doing this sooner, rather than later. If indeed your child does want to transition (with hormones and legal name change), it would start them off great if they could graduate from high school (I am assuming they are in high school), with the proper name/birth certificate (if your state allows birth certificate changes). It would make their entrance into adulthood as seamless as possible.

I also want to tell you that your child is very lucky to have a mom like you. They are fortunate that you are willing to accept whoever they feel themselves to be.

[deb0670]

Hi Gemme,
Thank you so much for all your advice and your friendship.
I have to admit, the person is the same, yes.. however, the mother/daughter things we used to do together, such as dress shopping, trying different make up, etc.. u will not have anymore.
Yes, I am accepting my son and am excited about helping him with his new journey and getting to know him better..

In my son's journey to find himself, he went through many experiences as a girl and young lady, and enjoyed them.. such as going shopping with my daughter in law and i for her Homecoming dress, and getting all dolled up and stuff..
Now... my son does not wish for me to talk about those girlie things anymore around him cause it helps his dysphoria.
So, yes.. i do absolutely love and support our son. .
There is and will be a sense of loss of my daughter.
Will I bring it up and make my son feel guilty? He'll no.
I do truly appreciate you and your kind words and help and friendship.

I'm not trans and this is the 'ask a trans person' thread but I feel strongly about this, so hopefully no one will mind my interjection too much.

deb, you won't miss your daughter. You'll miss the social expectations that come with having a daughter as well as the hopes and dreams you designed for your child at birth and through the formative years. And that will take some time to shed. But you get to form new hopes and dreams now! Ones based on your child's desires and hopes and those are best ones, yes?

Your child is your child. Period. That PERSON doesn't change but the social expectations will. Truth be told, you always had two sons. One just dressed in drag for 17 years. :)

You're a darling person, deb, and the best advice I can give as someone who has no right (neither a parent nor trans) to give advice on this topic, is to do what you and Ethan are already doing. Be open-minded with your son. Kids are resilient, especially when they have a good support system. Sit down with him and maybe make a ritual of switching things over.....like putting out new family photos or reworking the family album. I'd journal for yourself and ask your son if he'd like to do that on his own too. He'd be able to look back and see that X was hard but he made it through so Y and Z won't be so bad either. Don't hide your personal process from him but don't let him feel guilty about it either. None of that "I'm losing a daughter" stuff. You're gaining a child who is more self-confident, happier and more in control of their life. That's the type of kid that can make it through anything life throws at him.

Congrats!

[deb0670]

Dapper,
I thank God for You and for sharing this with me.
Thank You for understanding.
I will be looking for a therapist for our son Monday.

I have mentioned to him many times before about being butch, etc.. and even a gender to him, and every time he has been adamant that neither is the case.
I questioned him about wanting to be more like Dad (our son calls Ethan Dad), and just as adamantly he assured me that is not the case.
For awhile he was wavering back and forth, but he said it was mainly be he was scared of what Ethan and me would say. Our son said," I have never felt comfortable as a girl in a boy/girl relationship, nor a girl/girl relationship, and i am tired of pretending to be."

For years, he would dress and be androgynous. . But still did not feel right.

Ethan has been talking with our son a lot more now that our son has made up his mind and heart on who he is.

So.. i guess the best thing to do is find a therapist for him, and possibly for me to help any way I can.

Oh and, please know, I understand and believe You about
You not questioning my son's gender..
I truly appreciate You and Your help.




deb,

I have a couple of thoughts.

First of all, it is normal to have loss about losing a daughter. Yes, your child is still the same person, but if indeed your child is FTM, there is loss around what you expected for their life (the social things Gemme mentioned). In my work with adolescents and their parents, I find that this is where parents feel guilt. They feel guilty for feeling loss. Well, guess what? It IS a loss. Don't feel like you aren't accepting your child's gender identity just because you are grieving who you thought them to be. It is normal. Just like it is for the spouse of an adult who is changing their sex.


I think that the MOST IMPORTANT thing you can do for your child is to find a therapist that specializes in gender issues. As you know, often masculinity can get conflated with males (we need to look no further than our female butches and the frustration they face with this). It is important that your child separate out gender expression (masculinity) from gender/sex (male).

As a gender therapist, I always make sure with every client that they put this into perspective (adults as well as adolescents). My thought is that with having a FTM in the home, your child would have even more of a hard time seeing how a masculinity does not = male. Your child's example (in their young brain) is that a female changes gender if they are masculine.

Now, one of the positives of Ethan being in your child's life is that he can talk with your child about gender expression (masculinity) versus gender/sex (male) in a way that other paretns cannot, but I still think there are discussions that can be had with a therapist that one can't have with their parent. Additionally, there could be issues around your child having a desire to connect with Ethan more, to have a "sameness" that masculine individuals desire to have with the masculine parent, so that can be impacting your child's desire/thinking that they are male, also.

Please don't hear the above as me questioning your child's gender identity. Lord knows I would be the last person to do this, but I believe that due diligence is important with all trans individuals, but again, I believe that your child is in a special situation (one, on the whole, I think they are lucky to have - a FTM in their household).

Check out www.wpath.org and click on the provider tab to find a qualified gender therapist (and the list/link that Nadeest provided). I think that most states are represented. Contact that person. Even if they are too far away or don't take your child's insurance, ask them for the name of someone who is closer to you and might. Even if that person doesn't take your child's insurance, THEY might know someone who does. Even if you are told that so and so therapist only sees adults, call them anyway. Your child is 17, so they may make an exception (hell, that is how I started treating a 15 year old).

I would suggest doing this sooner, rather than later. If indeed your child does want to transition (with hormones and legal name change), it would start them off great if they could graduate from high school (I am assuming they are in high school), with the proper name/birth certificate (if your state allows birth certificate changes). It would make their entrance into adulthood as seamless as possible.

I also want to tell you that your child is very lucky to have a mom like you. They are fortunate that you are willing to accept whoever they feel themselves to be.

[DapperButch]

Dapper,
I thank God for You and for sharing this with me.
Thank You for understanding.
I will be looking for a therapist for our son Monday.

I have mentioned to him many times before about being butch, etc.. and even a gender to him, and every time he has been adamant that neither is the case.
I questioned him about wanting to be more like Dad (our son calls Ethan Dad), and just as adamantly he assured me that is not the case.
For awhile he was wavering back and forth, but he said it was mainly be he was scared of what Ethan and me would say. Our son said," I have never felt comfortable as a girl in a boy/girl relationship, nor a girl/girl relationship, and i am tired of pretending to be."

For years, he would dress and be androgynous. . But still did not feel right.

Ethan has been talking with our son a lot more now that our son has made up his mind and heart on who he is.

So.. i guess the best thing to do is find a therapist for him, and possibly for me to help any way I can.

Oh and, please know, I understand and believe You about
You not questioning my son's gender..
I truly appreciate You and Your help.

deb,

No problem, I am glad it was helpful. I admit that I get very nervous and cautious about young FTMs going on Testosterone. Their voice can drop like a rock after the first couple of shots. You cannot foretell how quickly it will drop or how low it will drop. It doesn't matter if the person starts with a deep voice to begin with or how deep their male relative's voices are. There is no correlation. As you probably know, voice changes are not reversible.

I feel much less anxious about a trans girl going on estrogen and testosterone blockers, she can change her mind and the T will flow back into her body like a demon. People aren't aware of how powerful of a hormone testosterone is and although I support "informed consent" where therapy is NOT a requirement, I admit that with adolescents/very young adults, it makes me nervous. There IS such a thing as transsexual regret. It does happen and it is very hard for the female bodied people who now have a male voice return to a female life. It can be very hard and painful. Hell, top surgery is reversible.

Anyway...the reason I responded to your post (sorry for the ramble) is if you are comfortable, PM me your city and I can ask on the WPATH listserve for a therapist in your area. Sorry I didn't think of that sooner.

[LoyalWolfsBlade]

Hi deb,
Gemme and Dapper pretty much covered everyhing however I wantedd to add a couple of things from experience. One is because I am living in the same state as you now I know from experience that unless you are living in Atlanta findding a therapist with experience with this issue may be difficult. I know that as an adult I am having a difficult time finding a doctor never mind a therapist in my area and I wish I lived closer to Atlanta. So if Dapper can help in that area I would highly reccomend it. While your son is ahead of the game compared to most just because he has you and Ethan I believe that a therapist is crucial. If only so he can have someone to talk to that is not his parents. Especially in this very very conseravitive state. Hopefully you live close to Atlanta that does have a large LGBTQ community where he will have access to not only a therapist but possible some peer support groups so that he does not feel so alone.

As someone that lost my bio-family due to who I am I can understand your fear about your mom. However you are ahead of the game if she accepted the comming out as gay part that you expressed. Just as you will grieve the things you used to do with him and the things I am sure you dreamt of doing with him in the future your mother must also grieve the loss of her grand duaghter. All you can do is be there for both of them once your mom has been told. As for you having difficulty, if I read the first post right, with usuing the right pronoun and stuff I believe it will become natural with time and usuage. After all you did refer to him as her for 17 years so to switch to him may take time. If my bio-family can call me Alix after 47 years I am more than confident you will make the transtion with little effort.

One last thing I do suggest that you also see a therapist. You will also need to do some self care and maybe need somme help with the grieving process. While it is important that you ar there for your son it is also just as important that you take care of yourself and get any support you can find to help you through this. After all if you don't do self care and address how this affects you you may not be able to be ther for your son when he needs you.

He is lucky to have parents like you and Ethan that are willing to be there for him.

[Nadeest]

Between them, Gemme, Dappar, and Wolfsblade pretty much covered it, I'd say. I will say, though, that I do understand a bit how your son experiences dysphoria when you talk about certain issues. A couple of years ago, in one of my culinary classes, parts of our class had to be servers, on certain occasions, since that class was preparing meals for others.

We had to wear black pants, white, button-down shirts, and a tie, along with black shoes, when we were working as servers. The first time that I was a server, I hadn't been able to find female clothing, that fit the requirements, so I had to wear the male equivalent. I was very uncomfortable, and could barely function, that day, during class. Basically, I was barely able to take care of one table, where everyone else was taking care of three or four tables full of customers.

That was about the worst incident of dysphoria that I have had, in three or four years, I think.

[Kelt]

Between them, Gemme, Dappar, and Wolfsblade pretty much covered it, I'd say. I will say, though, that I do understand a bit how your son experiences dysphoria when you talk about certain issues. A couple of years ago, in one of my culinary classes, parts of our class had to be servers, on certain occasions, since that class was preparing meals for others.

We had to wear black pants, white, button-down shirts, and a tie, along with black shoes, when we were working as servers. The first time that I was a server, I hadn't been able to find female clothing, that fit the requirements, so I had to wear the male equivalent. I was very uncomfortable, and could barely function, that day, during class. Basically, I was barely able to take care of one table, where everyone else was taking care of three or four tables full of customers.

That was about the worst incident of dysphoria that I have had, in three or four years, I think.

Wow, I'm so sorry to hear this. It really makes me think.

I don't remember the last time I had to wear clothing that felt to me like it genuinely represented what would feel like "cross dressing" into the wrong gender. I wear non-gender-specific casual clothing a lot but haven't done actually female looking anything in probably 25 years at least.

It sounds completely disorienting.

[Nadeest]

It was, trust me. I was also, later on that day, coming home from class, treated as a male, by someone in an elevator. It did not feel good, at all.

[Gemme]

I found a story and while I am glad that this couple has found a way to get married, I feel that this is a step back for those who truly are trans and who truly are trying to be the person they were meant to be. I don't believe that transgender is a "loophole" in the system and I feel that they have taken the hard fought progress a step backwards.

What really kicked me in the gut is when she says, "Jacki is so authentic." This scenario feels as far away from authentic as you can get.

So, transguys and transgals, what do you think?

Christine and Jacki (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/07/14/oprah-show-guest-christine-jacki-marriage_n_5584480.html?icid=maing-grid7%7Cmain5%7Cdl9%7Csec1_lnk2%26pLid%3D501572)

In 2006, "Oprah Show" viewers met Christine, a mother of two who made a surprising confession to her husband, Joe, after seven years of marriage: She was gay. But she wasn't the only one in the family with a secret. Joe was gay, too.

During that episode, the divorced couple shared their story, from when they each realized their true sexuality to how the truth came out. Two-and-a-half years later, Christine appeared on "Oprah" again, revealing that, even though she felt most comfortable in relationships with women, she had gone back to dating men. "I really can't label myself," Christine told Oprah back then.

It's now been eight years since audiences first met Christine. She tells "Oprah: Where Are They Now?" that life today has never been better. While she and Joe don't have much of a relationship beyond Facebook, Christine has a new spouse -- and an intense story about what it took to make their marriage happen.

Christine's wife, Jacki, first saw her on "The Oprah Show." "When the camera panned over to her, my initial response was, 'Oh, my God. That woman's beautiful,'" Jacki recalls. "I would have never thought she was a lesbian if I saw her walking the streets."

After running into each other several times, the two began dating. Christine says she fell in love with Jacki's authenticity and proposed to her three years ago. The women were looking forward to being married, but there was a big problem: During the time they were engaged, gay marriage was not legal in their state of California.

"Even though we were fighting a good fight, I wasn't feeling very optimistic about it," Christine admits.

That's when Jacki discovered a loophole.

"I started looking into transgender. In the eyes of the courts, if I were to have my gender changed to male, just like that, she gets my Social Security, she gets my pension," Jacki says.

So, Jacki elected to have a double mastectomy. In April 2013, she officially changed her sex to "male" on her birth certificate. She and Christine soon married and just celebrated their one-year wedding anniversary last month.

"I was so overwhelmed that somebody would do such a thing," Christine says of Jacki's selflessness. "It was the biggest act of love anyone's ever done for me."

[Nadeest]

I don't know whether Jackie is male or not. I've never met the person, nor had any sort of conversation with them. Therefore, I cannot say whether Jackie is male or not. Nor is it my right to say. Every person figures out what gender that they are, and far be it from me to say that they are not that gender.

However, I do not care for the idea of claiming to be transgender as a loophole, in order to get married. That, to my mind, is utterly wrong. We transfolk go thru so much, in order to even be able to transition, let alone transitioning, that it feels utterly wrong for someone to simply claim that they are transgender in order to take advantage of a law.

To be utterly fair, though; I have to disclose that, being a preop transwoman, and primarily attracted to women (This is the state of what I know about my sexual orientation, at least at the present time, with my lack of data.), IF I happened to fall in love with a woman, and she asked me to marry her, I would do so. I would use my status as a preop transwoman (with my gender marker on my driver's licence as male), to obtain the marriage licence.

[Kelt]

I have only been aware of this story for about an hour and I have mixed feelings on it. I don't know these people at all. I did go watch the video link to the interview. I don't like tabloid tv so I stay away from this kind of thing normally, but this hits close to home.

My first impressions (subject to change if I learn more) is that this was for this couple first and foremost a financial decision. They found a loophole and exploited it to personal benefit. What is problematic for me is that "they" have presented this as a quick decision anyone can make that had all the impact of a nose job, and for them it seems true. When I say "they" I don't know what might be left on the editing floor, Oprah is known for sensationalism, etc..

Unfortunately, for the viewing public, this may be what they believe about trans* persons going forward without any more information. It effectively negates the torture most trans people live through in their efforts to find and define themselves as transgendered. I believe it would have been a much better representation of the "facts" to present the story as one about the lengths some gay couples have to gone to just to receive equal treatment on the marriage front, without tagging the term trans* onto it.

In my opinion (for the moment) that is what the actual story was, and the Oprah machine found a way to cash in on the current headline creating term of "Trans".

I will be interested to see what others have to say.

[Linus]

Ya, I don't like the kind of precedent that this sends. The rest of the world would see this as the reason why people transition. It feeds into the "men in women's bathroom" fear as well because they'll view it as a way for rapists to attack women by getting a sex change. They're celebrating 1 year but what happens if they divorce? How will Jacki feel then?

To me, the decision to do a medical transition should be for one's own self-existence and not for the benefit or detriment of others. And why not fight for marriage in California? Or get married out of the state and have protection federally while waiting for the legal system to figure things out? Given that this was likely a recent interview, it couldn't have been that long before California's laws were changed, no?

[theoddz]

I'm with what Linus and Nadeest have said, above. I don't like the idea of this setting some sort of "precedent" and I certainly don't care for the way that the "Oprah machine" has taken this and turned it into a sort of "shock TV" sort of thing. It smacks of the Jerry Springer effect. We're not freaks and transitioning is about doing a helluva lot of work on a very basic aspect of a person's sense of self (gender identity). I think we can all agree here that gender identity and sexual orientation are two VERY separate, but equally important issues.

I do wonder, though, if there is another side of this story that the Oprah producers didn't shine the light on, too, for the sake of the "shock" factor and the ratings game. I would like to know if Jacki's decision was based on the issue of sexual orientation or gender identity. When the word "loophole" was used, it made us all think first that this is a same-sex (sexual orientation) issue.

I think that, when we have, usually, seen transgender stories, the emphasis has (usually) always been on the issue of gender identity and all of the issues that one faces on the process of becoming who we truly are, inside. That's the way it SHOULD be, because that is what it is. In this case, however, the word "loophole" was (to me) "emphasized", quickly shifting our attention to the slant that some sort of "deception"/exploitation was involved. One does NOT change their gender in order to marry a same sex partner. That is clearly exploiting the gender identity issue to accommodate something far different.....sexual orientation. The fact that the Oprah producers presented it as such is a particularly insulting disservice to each and every person who struggles with gender identity issues. I detest that. Our society makes it difficult enough for transfolk, without powerful entities, such as the media, putting this sort of shit out there.

I don't like it.

I remember the "pregnant man" stories about Thomas Beatie, some years back. When that happened, I can't begin to tell you how I felt when some of the (more close minded) nurses at work would ask me, "So Theo, when are YOU going to have a baby??". Ugh. I still don't have the words to describe my anger and how flabbergasted I felt. Let me just say that it really, really cut me to the core. It was cruel, and although I fully supported Thomas's right to do what he wanted with his body and live the way he and his wife wanted, it DID have an effect on me. It wasn't his fault, though, unless HE sought the media attention and I cannot remember the details of that, whether he did or not. Thing is, the media can reinforce bad stereotypes and encourage idiots to hold idiotic views. THAT is what I fault. My point of view is that a person has the right to do what they want, as long as it doesn't hurt others. This hurt others.

~Theo~ :bouquet:

[JDeere]

Shaving products? What products do you feel, is best for your skin type?

[Nadeest]

I simply use water, as given the fact that my facial hair removal is still not finished, I still need to shave each day. :(

[JDeere]

I simply use water, as given the fact that my facial hair removal is still not finished, I still need to shave each day. :(

I am sorry and that really sucks! I am using a shave cream from Bath and Body Works lately and a 5 bladed razor, which seems to help get all the stubble from what I do have growing. I have major sensitive skin so I have to be careful.

[Greyson]

Thing is, the media can reinforce bad stereotypes and encourage idiots to hold idiotic views. THAT is what I fault. My point of view is that a person has the right to do what they want, as long as it doesn't hurt others. This hurt others.

~Theo~ :bouquet:

Honestly, I have mixed feelings on the Jackie and Christina story. I do know the two of them. They are acquaintances of mine and friends of my twin sister. It is my understanding that they did not tell their friends of Jackie's legally male status. It was news to everyone when it was announced in the Oprah interview.

I remember when their wedding invitations were sent out and it was before same-sex marriage became legal in California. It was also before the Federal government decided to recognize same-sex marriage. I do know that Jackie has lived as a Butch for most of her/his life. I do not know if she/he identifies herself/himself as woman or male identified Butch or neither.

Like Theo and Linus I can see how their story can set a negative precedent for FTMs. I felt the same way about Beatty, "The pregnant man." On the other hand, people are entitled to do with their bodies and lives whatever they choose to do. I am pretty sure Jackie and Christina are not the first couple to find this "loophole." They are just the first ones to get media coverage. (Similar to Beatty. He was not the first pregnant FTM.)

In part, my own transition was political. I had lived my life as a Butch that expressed masculinity since a very young child. I never felt I was the same as a cisgender male. I also never felt that I was a woman. I did find it absurd that just because I could "transition" all of a sudden I could receive full legal status. Nothing had changed on the inside the person I was and am.

I have had the privilege of discussing gender stuff in the forums with many of you for a few years now. I have learned so much. We all have our own stories, ideas and beliefs. I may not think, believe the exact same thing you do but I have respect and regard for many of you. Again, thanks for sharing so much of yourselves and knowledge here.

[Greyson]

I ran into Christie the other day and asked her if she was aware of some of the controversy their interview has stirred up. She told me yes and their are pieces of the interview that never got televised. Her and Jacki were contacted by Helen Boyd an author and Professor at a university in Wisconsin.

Jacki did send a written response to questions Professor Boyd asked Jacki via email. I went to Boyd's blog site, en|Gender to see if Jacki's response has been posted and it has not yet been posted. However, you can read Boyd's initial blog on July 15, 2014 regarding the interview. Here is the link:

http://www.myhusbandbetty.com/?subscribe=success#blog_subscription-2

Finally, I did tell Christi about this site and thread and asked her if it would be okay if I posted here about our conversation, she replied "Yes."

[theoddz]

Shaving products? What products do you feel, is best for your skin type?

I seem to get a good shave by using Nivea for Men (Sensitive) shaving gel. I have a moderately thick beard and mostly keep my beard full and closely trimmed. I shave my neck, because if I don't, my skin gets irritated and I develop ingrown hairs. That's where the Nivea for Men (Sensitive) comes in.

I read somewhere, and I believe it was in a forum for transguys that hosted/sponsored by Chaz Bono, that shaving with multi-blade razors was not good for one's skin. At that time, I was relatively new to frequent shaving and didn't have the beard I now have. I now must shave every day, and sometimes twice a day, if I go out at night, due to an obvious "5 o'clock shadow" that I now get. Anyway, dear wife bought me an old fashioned double edged safety razor....the kind my dad shaved with when I was a kid. That gives me the best shave I've ever gotten, and though it's very easy to nick myself, if I'm careful, I get a good shave and very, very few ingrown hairs or "shaving bumps".

Oh, and if you ever want a really nice treat, go get a shave from one of the barber shops of "The Art of Shaving". I did that down at the Venetian Hotel, here in Las Vegas, where they have one of their barber shops. It was quite a wonderful experience, which dear wife treated me to, and I got the whole 9 yard treatment, complete with a hot lather shave and the skin treatment, by a professional barber.

I think it made my toes curl. :awww:

~Theo~ :bouquet:

[JDeere]

I seem to get a good shave by using Nivea for Men (Sensitive) shaving gel. I have a moderately thick beard and mostly keep my beard full and closely trimmed. I shave my neck, because if I don't, my skin gets irritated and I develop ingrown hairs. That's where the Nivea for Men (Sensitive) comes in.

I read somewhere, and I believe it was in a forum for transguys that hosted/sponsored by Chaz Bono, that shaving with multi-blade razors was not good for one's skin. At that time, I was relatively new to frequent shaving and didn't have the beard I now have. I now must shave every day, and sometimes twice a day, if I go out at night, due to an obvious "5 o'clock shadow" that I now get. Anyway, dear wife bought me an old fashioned double edged safety razor....the kind my dad shaved with when I was a kid. That gives me the best shave I've ever gotten, and though it's very easy to nick myself, if I'm careful, I get a good shave and very, very few ingrown hairs or "shaving bumps".

Oh, and if you ever want a really nice treat, go get a shave from one of the barber shops of "The Art of Shaving". I did that down at the Venetian Hotel, here in Las Vegas, where they have one of their barber shops. It was quite a wonderful experience, which dear wife treated me to, and I got the whole 9 yard treatment, complete with a hot lather shave and the skin treatment, by a professional barber.

I think it made my toes curl. :awww:

~Theo~ :bouquet:

Now I know why I get bumps when I shave! I will probably go back to twin blades to see if that works, I am not careful enough to shave myself with the safety razor, like you use.

Thanks for the tips as well, looks like some shopping for me, soon!

[JDeere]

Okay health insurance, anyone have any tips for insurance for transfolks? Or some links that I can read over.

Thanks!

[Kelt]

Okay health insurance, anyone have any tips for insurance for transfolks? Or some links that I can read over.

Thanks!

What are you looking for when you say "for transfolks"? Are you looking for coverage of transitional procedures? (Let me know if you find that!) Or are you looking for trans-friendly healthcare providers or what?

Health Insurance here in the states has gotten a lot trickier since 2014 and you are required to carry something, the fines are going up for those who skip and the window of opportunity for signing up is a lot shorter this year.

I've learned a lot this last year but I wouldn't consider any of it to be trans specific. :thinking:

[JDeere]

Right now trans friendly providers. And then for surgical procedures.

[DapperButch]

Right now trans friendly providers. And then for surgical procedures.

It is all very complicated. If you want to PM me I can send you in the right direction for what you want to know:

1) information on the insurance system/how to navigate your insurance
2) State laws and where to find them regarding your insurance
2) how to find a gender therapist in your area/online
3) how to find a testosterone provider and what you need to do so that they will prescribe T to you.
4) how to find a surgeon and how to find out their criteria for surgery.
5) the barriers to each of the above.

I can talk all day about the above, but I don't want to ramble on forever and give you (or fill up the thread with), needless information. :hamactor:

If you have specific questions and are willing to tell me what state you live in, and what insurance you have, I can save you hours of research. For a small fee. :cigar:

It is impossible to discuss these things in generalities.

[JDeere]

Thank you Dapper, I will pm you when I am fully awake and can truly comprehend all of it. I just got back home from being out.

[The Oopster]

Don't know if anyone that can answer this comes on here but not really the question I want to put on my Facebook page.

I've talked to one person but would like to others experience on this.

Has anyone stopped or lowered their testosterone after chest surgery and having a complete hysterectomy?

I'm going to make an appointment in February to talk with my dr when I'm back in his area. Meanwhile I haven't take one since I think Oct. My hysterectomy was done at the end of November. I really haven't felt it necessary and am thinking of holding off till then just to see what it does to my hormone levels and blood counts. At this point I just not sure what the advantages to continuing it would be.

My energy level has been pretty damn good, frame of mind, etc. I don't really care what happens to my facial hair and I got a pretty low voice.

I actually think part of my feeling well might be because my red blood count is leveling out. That its being high was helping me feel sluggish. In fact surgery probably helped that also since I have donated for a while and they didn't have to give me any I probably lost enough to lower the count also.

any experience?

[DapperButch]

Don't know if anyone that can answer this comes on here but not really the question I want to put on my Facebook page.

I've talked to one person but would like to others experience on this.

Has anyone stopped or lowered their testosterone after chest surgery and having a complete hysterectomy?

I'm going to make an appointment in February to talk with my dr when I'm back in his area. Meanwhile I haven't take one since I think Oct. My hysterectomy was done at the end of November. I really haven't felt it necessary and am thinking of holding off till then just to see what it does to my hormone levels and blood counts. At this point I just not sure what the advantages to continuing it would be.

My energy level has been pretty damn good, frame of mind, etc. I don't really care what happens to my facial hair and I got a pretty low voice.

I actually think part of my feeling well might be because my red blood count is leveling out. That its being high was helping me feel sluggish. In fact surgery probably helped that also since I have donated for a while and they didn't have to give me any I probably lost enough to lower the count also.

any experience?

Removing breasts wouldn't impact T levels.

I have heard around 4 guys talk about this. All 4 said they needed the same amount of T in order to keep the same T levels after removal of their ovaries. I find that interesting because I would think that your body no longer fighting estrogen would mean less testosterone needed for the same amount of T in the body.

I have read that orchidectomy does result in MTFs being able to take much less, or no T blockers.

My understanding is that our bodies need to have one hormone or the other, so it isn't wise to not take any hormones. It negatively impacts things like bone strength. Please consider calling your physician. Maybe you only need to take a small amount to stay healthy.

[Nadeest]

I do not know the answer to your question, sorry. With that being said, I do know that transwomen who have had an orchi or SRS no longer need the anti-androgens that they had been taking. They also generally cut their estrogen dosage by about 1/2, from what I have learned, over the years.

I can also say that I am definitely looking forwards to when I no longer have to take that danged anti-androgen. I love the blocking testosterone effect, but............ it is also a diuretic, and that part, I do not enjoy at all. :(

[The Oopster]

I appreciate the responses however I really am looking for peoples personal experience.

[DapperButch]

I appreciate the responses however I really am looking for peoples personal experience.

I understand that. Just for your knowledge, I am basing my comments on what 3-4 transmen have said on a trans message board I frequent.

I will PM you a link to the FTM section of that site that has a Testosterone forum, specifically. That would be a good place to ask your question.

[Linus]

Don't know if anyone that can answer this comes on here but not really the question I want to put on my Facebook page.

I've talked to one person but would like to others experience on this.

Has anyone stopped or lowered their testosterone after chest surgery and having a complete hysterectomy?

I'm going to make an appointment in February to talk with my dr when I'm back in his area. Meanwhile I haven't take one since I think Oct. My hysterectomy was done at the end of November. I really haven't felt it necessary and am thinking of holding off till then just to see what it does to my hormone levels and blood counts. At this point I just not sure what the advantages to continuing it would be.

My energy level has been pretty damn good, frame of mind, etc. I don't really care what happens to my facial hair and I got a pretty low voice.

I actually think part of my feeling well might be because my red blood count is leveling out. That its being high was helping me feel sluggish. In fact surgery probably helped that also since I have donated for a while and they didn't have to give me any I probably lost enough to lower the count also.

any experience?


I don't recall stopping it for chest surgery and I'm looking at doing a hysto for the possibility of lowering how often I take shots. (I range on fear of needles from ok to near catatonic some times -- it's weird since I self-inject). My general GP recommended me to a gyno for a hysto who believes that having that done will help with me reducing t shots since there will no longer be a fight between hormones. I'll probably be exploring this in 2015 along with possible further bottom surgery.

[Rufusboi]

Don't know if anyone that can answer this comes on here but not really the question I want to put on my Facebook page.

I've talked to one person but would like to others experience on this.

Has anyone stopped or lowered their testosterone after chest surgery and having a complete hysterectomy?

I'm going to make an appointment in February to talk with my dr when I'm back in his area. Meanwhile I haven't take one since I think Oct. My hysterectomy was done at the end of November. I really haven't felt it necessary and am thinking of holding off till then just to see what it does to my hormone levels and blood counts. At this point I just not sure what the advantages to continuing it would be.

My energy level has been pretty damn good, frame of mind, etc. I don't really care what happens to my facial hair and I got a pretty low voice.

I actually think part of my feeling well might be because my red blood count is leveling out. That its being high was helping me feel sluggish. In fact surgery probably helped that also since I have donated for a while and they didn't have to give me any I probably lost enough to lower the count also.

any experience?


Oopster

I had a complete hysterectomy when I was in my 20's. For years I did not take any hormone replacement. When I went to an endocrinologist to talk about transitioning he informed me I needed to be on some sort of hormone because my body was not producing any hormones which was affecting my health and bone density. He said because my body was not producing any hormone I either need to take estrogen or testosterone. Since I have been on testosterone for 3 years my energy level has risen and I am never sick.

My suggestion is to talk to your doctor before making a decision.

Rufus

[JDeere]

Any of y'all know where I can get a good binder, nothing super expensive, I am big chested and need another binder. I have 2x right now but its not enough compression on top.

Any idea or suggestions?

[DapperButch]

JDeere, you will find more information on products for FTMs if you look at this thread: http://www.butchfemmeplanet.com/forum/showthread.php?t=608 rather than looking through this one.

If you read the OP, this thread is supposed to be for general questions from non-trans people. I know that trans guys have also come in here and asked questions of other trans guys recently, but I think you will get more answers from transmen if you make a new thread, or use an existing one. The title of this thread is actually a "carry over" from another site, so I think a lot of old transguy members pass by it unless they want to answer non-trans people's questions.

With that said, let me see if I can help.


Any of y'all know where I can get a good binder, nothing super expensive, I am big chested and need another binder. I have 2x right now but its not enough compression on top.

Any idea or suggestions?

There are two binders that I would say are by far and away the most popular binders, due to how well they work, but also lower cost than other quality binders. They are made by Underworks and have been around for many years (you may already know about them):

http://www.f2mbinders.com/product/productinfo/ultimate-chest-binder-tank/360?cid=61

The above is what most people call the "997".



http://www.f2mbinders.com/product/productinfo/tri-top-chest-binder/355?cid=61

This above most call the Tri Top.



Typically you hear of heavier guys preferring the full length one because if they get the tri top the compression causes their stomach to push out more.

The only other company that I have consistently heard people like is lesloveboat.com They are more expensive though, but a lot of people find them more comfortable.

I used the Tri Top for many years, prior to top surgery.

What brand(s) are you using right now?


______________
"The Trans Zone" isn't used often, so I would love if it became more active.

Glad you came in because it seems like most of the transguys that come to BFP and post in this Zone are members who have been around for many years. it is good to get new blood (testosterone infused or not! :D)

[JDeere]

Oh crap my bad! I didn't think to read the OP but now I know!

I am wearing an underworks style 473, I actually won it in an online contest. I think I might need to switch to the 997, no tri top for me cuz I got the bulge going!

Thanks again for the help, I am going to look into getting a 997 and see if that works.

[DapperButch]

Oh crap my bad! I didn't think to read the OP but now I know!

I am wearing an underworks style 473, I actually won it in an online contest. I think I might need to switch to the 997, no tri top for me cuz I got the bulge going!

Thanks again for the help, I am going to look into getting a 997 and see if that works.

Here is another up and coming binder. I would say outside of Underworks, it is the only brand I have seen a significant number of transguys say works for them. It has only been out for the last 4 months or so.

http://www.gc2b.co/#!store/c205c/collections/all/1

[JDeere]

Here is another up and coming binder. I would say outside of Underworks, it is the only brand I have seen a significant number of transguys say works for them. It has only been out for the last 4 months or so.

http://www.gc2b.co/#!store/c205c/collections/all/1

This one looks like something more up my alley, Thanks again!

[Satiated]

I've debated for the last hour, whether I wanted to post my ramblings here or not. I tend to be a private sorta lady, but my need to understand has overwhelmed me so, here I be.

1. This isn't a medical question, more an emotional one directed at the Males partaking in this thread.

2. Where as my ex partner isn't here to add his two cents, I have nothing ill to say. He was a dynamite butch befor his transition, and now is just an incredible guy after.

For the most part, I have tossed around the idea of dropping the status label of lesbian these days, and just referring to myself as femme. Why you wonder, I'm blubbering about this here? Because randomly 5 years ago, my long term butch girlfriend stated she wanted to become a man and transition. I was shocked, angry, sad and various other things. Bottom line, I supported her right up till he was born.

Surgeries, hormones, and varies other things rocked us apart, but I remained diligent. I loved this persons soul. At this stage, I considered us a hetro couple. Something, I'd never thought I'd say, do or be. But, I did.

Things smoothed after the initial year, and then the confession came. " I can't date a lesbian, you like women. " I said yes, that's a fact, but I also love you, and you are male.

To no avail he dumped me, to date straight women.

Yet, here I see many Ftm's surrounding themselves with all sorts of labels.

So, all this rambling aside...

Have any of you males that transitioned ever felt your current (or at the time partner) looked at you as being anything but whom you are now?

[Feasting Panther]

I personally also want to thank you for starting this thread Linus. I have been going through alot lately when it comes to questioning My gender, and after going to an FTM group meeting at the local GLBT community center this past Tuesday I feel that I am more sure about alot of things than I was before. I sat among eight FTM's and listened to their struggles, their coming out stories, how they feel now and felt before about their change and even though most of them were on T and have been for awhile I felt Myself nodding and identifying with each of them.

I guess I have a few questions that I will start out with, since I know that we have all started somewhere. I'll begin with just a few basic ones:

1) When did you begin feeling like you were different?

2) Did you always know that you should have been born the opposite sex, or did that come abit later though you always knew you were different?

3) When did you decide to come out, and how did you come out?


I am out as trans (FTM) to certain people that I know online as well as those at the FTM group I attended but not to anyone else. A big part of Me wants to come out to family and friends so I can finally outright be who I am on the inside, but there is still that part of Me that is scared to do so. I am really looking to just connect with other FTM's (as well as MTF's) and relate to those who have gone through the journey, or perhaps those like Me really just beginning it, so that I can know that I'm not alone.

Hi, Being M-T-F i never had a coming out with family etc. At age 14 the family Dr told my parents i may have a condition known then as 'Gender Identity Disorder' or Harry Benjamin's Condition, I also have Klinefelters Syndrome Or xxy47 so I was very different as a Boy, if you aw pics of me before HRT i appear neither Male or Femail.
I left home at 15 (Ran Away) ended up in the military where i became heavily involved in Physical Training and Extreme Sport. After leaving the Military due to a Sexual Assault and Bastardization i went to a Psych who said i had a sexuality disorder and gave me a course of anti-psychs and ECT.
I was screwed up and went to Sydney and worked in a Bakery in the heart of Sydney's GAY Area 'Oxford St', my boss asked me once if i was gay, but i said no, im a Girl, he was a kind man and i saw a counselor which he paid for, she told me i had Gender Dysphoria.
I didn't Transition till a lot later for fear of losing my family, which happened anyway, i'm lived for a while as a femme womyn, but I'm more into the beach and fitness and also found attitudes in the Trans* Community stifling, im happiest in jeans and a tee riding my bike. I didn't have major issues with hormones and my body developed very quickly, with my dr and endo allowing me some personal freedom and responsibility with my hormone level doses.
I feel because i never identified as a Male, just lived that role my Transition is kind of unusual compared to most ive met, my voice is in the femail range, i have no Adams apple or manly features to worry about mainly, due to being xxy.
So thats my little life story, Take Care.

[Melissa]

I've debated for the last hour, whether I wanted to post my ramblings here or not. I tend to be a private sorta lady, but my need to understand has overwhelmed me so, here I be.

1. This isn't a medical question, more an emotional one directed at the Males partaking in this thread.

2. Where as my ex partner isn't here to add his two cents, I have nothing ill to say. He was a dynamite butch befor his transition, and now is just an incredible guy after.

For the most part, I have tossed around the idea of dropping the status label of lesbian these days, and just referring to myself as femme. Why you wonder, I'm blubbering about this here? Because randomly 5 years ago, my long term butch girlfriend stated she wanted to become a man and transition. I was shocked, angry, sad and various other things. Bottom line, I supported her right up till he was born.

Surgeries, hormones, and varies other things rocked us apart, but I remained diligent. I loved this persons soul. At this stage, I considered us a hetro couple. Something, I'd never thought I'd say, do or be. But, I did.

Things smoothed after the initial year, and then the confession came. " I can't date a lesbian, you like women. " I said yes, that's a fact, but I also love you, and you are male.

To no avail he dumped me, to date straight women.

Yet, here I see many Ftm's surrounding themselves with all sorts of labels.

So, all this rambling aside...

Have any of you males that transitioned ever felt your current (or at the time partner) looked at you as being anything but whom you are now?


I read your post with a lot of interest. I am not sure I can be of much help. I am married to an FTM but I identify as lesbian and as femme. I have kept this identity all through his transition. He has been supportive of that. We have been together 8 years and married 5 years in October.

I have been with him through the whole transition. We talked a lot before, during and after his hormones and all his surgeries. I have to admit I was afraid of losing my id as lesbian and femme. As you probably experienced, it is a weird "head trip" when it comes to labels and identity. I wondered if I would lose my identity as he transitioned.

Everyday I am perceived as a hetero married woman, an identity set I never thought would ever apply to me. In my mind I am lesbian, femme, queer. My husband who formerly identified as an old school butch now Ids as male and hetero.

A couple of years ago I came across an article by an FTM who said it was highly disrespectful and insulting for the partners of FTMs to continue to id as lesbian. As soon as I read this I asked my husband if he found it insulting that I identified as lesbian and would he prefer I id as straight? He said something along the lines of "hell no, what difference does it make to me how you id." So that was that. I have asked him the same question a couple of times since and I get the same answer.

I guess it really depends on the person. Some guys will be opposed to you holding on to your lesbian identity and some, like my husband do not see it as a problem or a threat or insult to his identity.

Personally, I do not think we should be required to change how we id. I still love my husband and he knows that. I loved him as a butch I love him as a man. He is still the same person, same personality, same sense of humor, same habits, he has always had.

When I read that article a few years ago I was surprised that this idea was out there that holding on to our lesbian id was something negative or hurtful. I am sad that some people think that. FOr me, I have come to realize how all these labels are really sort of meaningless. I sometimes think that I id as lesbian because I am just comfortable with that. It is an id I have had for over 25 years. I am just used to it. That is how I view myself even though the world now perceives me as a hetero married woman. Which still blows my mind :)

[Miss Scarlett]

Not sure where to post this or if it's already been discussed anywhere on the site.

Late last night I came across a 2004 documentary on Showtime called "The Opposite Sex: Rene's Story."

Here's the plot summary from IMDB:

"Rene, 31, a female-to-male gender reassignment candidate took hormones for years and "passed" as a man for all of his adult life. Married to his high-school sweetheart, Wona, a heterosexual woman, for 12 years, no one would guess Rene was biologically a woman. Living under a veil of secrecy and lies, Rene and Wona's lives seemed fine until someone "outed" the couple at their beloved church and everything they knew was destroyed. The public revelation of Rene's secret starts to unravel his marriage to Wona. Through all of it, Rene continues to hold on to his lifelong obsession to become a biological male and goes on a cross-country search to find the best transgender surgeon, only to discover that the current surgery options are flawed. At the last minute, Rene finds a surgeon who has created an experimental procedure, which will be seen in THE OPPOSITE SEX for the first time. - Written by Showtime Synopsis"

This, and the second in the series "The Opposite Sex: Jaime's Story" about a transwoman's journey, will be running on Showtime until late June if anyone is interested.

Has anyone seen these? If so, what did you think?

[DapperButch]

Not sure where to post this or if it's already been discussed anywhere on the site.

Late last night I came across a 2004 documentary on Showtime called "The Opposite Sex: Rene's Story."

Here's the plot summary from IMDB:

"Rene, 31, a female-to-male gender reassignment candidate took hormones for years and "passed" as a man for all of his adult life. Married to his high-school sweetheart, Wona, a heterosexual woman, for 12 years, no one would guess Rene was biologically a woman. Living under a veil of secrecy and lies, Rene and Wona's lives seemed fine until someone "outed" the couple at their beloved church and everything they knew was destroyed. The public revelation of Rene's secret starts to unravel his marriage to Wona. Through all of it, Rene continues to hold on to his lifelong obsession to become a biological male and goes on a cross-country search to find the best transgender surgeon, only to discover that the current surgery options are flawed. At the last minute, Rene finds a surgeon who has created an experimental procedure, which will be seen in THE OPPOSITE SEX for the first time. - Written by Showtime Synopsis"

This, and the second in the series "The Opposite Sex: Jaime's Story" about a transwoman's journey, will be running on Showtime until late June if anyone is interested.

Has anyone seen these? If so, what did you think?



No, I haven't seen it, but the way the plot summary is written makes it sound rather dramatic and like the FTM person was living in the 1970's.

There were a number of quality, competent gender confirmation surgeons in the U.S. by 2004. No reason for a "cross country search". <eye roll>. A one minute google search would have brought up the surgeons.

Experimental procedure? A procedure that was perhaps trying to be improved, but the two main genital procedures for men have been around forever. And the "current surgery options are flawed?". I wonder why they are still doing them, then. Sure they are getting better and better, but give me a break!

Sorry, but the way the plot summary is written presents the person as a freak and like he should be with a traveling freak show from the 1800's due to his "life long obsession" to "be a biological man" (which a natal female never becomes, by the way), as if he is the only person out there who feels they were born into the wrong body.

Very insulting.

Too insulting to watch.

ETA: I found out he went to Peter Raphael who "invented" the centurion, which is just a variation of the not new metoidioplasty. He started doing it in 2002, so Rene's surgery was not done earlier than that.

Sorry, Miss Scarlett, my frustration isn't meant for you. It is for showtime and their "synopsis" and no doubt presentation of the film. Right now the media needs to see trans people for what we are. Normal people who have some gender variance of differing levels. We don't need to be seen as oddities.

[Hominid]

Ditto what Dapper said. My guess is it is full of judgments about what a "proper" penis is, and likely took on the opinions of this one transman in regard to his choices. If anyone's spent any time in active online forums for FtM's and surgery (both top and bottom), they are replete with versions of "my (existing or planned) cock/chest is better than yours". Heck, I even wonder if this guy is someone in particular who proclaimed in many places that he (unlike others) had spent many years in search of the best option and he alone had the answer because of his extensive research.

Perhaps not entirely fair since I haven't seen it, neither do I plan to. The synopsis is plenty for me, thank you!

No, I haven't seen it, but the way the plot summary is written makes it sound rather dramatic and like the FTM person was living in the 1970's.

There were a number of quality, competent gender confirmation surgeons in the U.S. by 2004. No reason for a "cross country search". <eye roll>. A one minute google search would have brought up the surgeons.

Experimental procedure? A procedure that was perhaps trying to be improved, but the two main genital procedures for men have been around forever. And the "current surgery options are flawed?". I wonder why they are still doing them, then. Sure they are getting better and better, but give me a break!

Sorry, but the way the plot summary is written presents the person as a freak and like he should be with a traveling freak show from the 1800's due to his "life long obsession" to "be a biological man" (which a natal female never becomes, by the way), as if he is the only person out there who feels they were born into the wrong body.

Very insulting.

Too insulting to watch.

ETA: I found out he went to Peter Raphael who "invented" the centurion, which is just a variation of the not new metoidioplasty. He started doing it in 2002, so Rene's surgery was not done earlier than that.

Sorry, Miss Scarlett, my frustration isn't meant for you. It is for showtime and their "synopsis" and no doubt presentation of the film. Right now the media needs to see trans people for what we are. Normal people who have some gender variance of differing levels. We don't need to be seen as oddities.

[Vincent]

I've debated for the last hour, whether I wanted to post my ramblings here or not. I tend to be a private sorta lady, but my need to understand has overwhelmed me so, here I be.

1. This isn't a medical question, more an emotional one directed at the Males partaking in this thread.

2. Where as my ex partner isn't here to add his two cents, I have nothing ill to say. He was a dynamite butch befor his transition, and now is just an incredible guy after.

For the most part, I have tossed around the idea of dropping the status label of lesbian these days, and just referring to myself as femme. Why you wonder, I'm blubbering about this here? Because randomly 5 years ago, my long term butch girlfriend stated she wanted to become a man and transition. I was shocked, angry, sad and various other things. Bottom line, I supported her right up till he was born.

Surgeries, hormones, and varies other things rocked us apart, but I remained diligent. I loved this persons soul. At this stage, I considered us a hetro couple. Something, I'd never thought I'd say, do or be. But, I did.

Things smoothed after the initial year, and then the confession came. " I can't date a lesbian, you like women. " I said yes, that's a fact, but I also love you, and you are male.

To no avail he dumped me, to date straight women.

Yet, here I see many Ftm's surrounding themselves with all sorts of labels.

So, all this rambling aside...

Have any of you males that transitioned ever felt your current (or at the time partner) looked at you as being anything but whom you are now?

Hi,I thought I would just throw in my experience,I live in Newtown Sydney,in the heart of queer central,I came out in 77,I transitioned 8 yrs ago,for me I identify as queer,I do see queer in a political context,and before transition,I never Identified as butch,I id'ed as dyke,I have always been attracted to feminine women,but have no attraction to heterosexual women,I'm more into queer femme,than I guess the lesbian ID,but an ID certainly would not get in my way if an attraction existed,I find a similar history background important,being a queer activist before and after transition.

I stayed single my first 5 yrs in order for my new self to evolve,I needed the freedom to be self indulgent and work through who I will become,without dumping it on someone else,like most I shed my past,lost all family and a few of my old lesbian friends,but have landed in the queer community in Sydney,I find I am much calmer after transition,and have no depression anymore,so my relationships seem to be less dramatic and more dynamic,for me I believe I will evolve all my life and I will always have my core feminist politics.

I dont know if I have helped or raved on myself.

On binders I used underworks,they were cheap and did the job.

On hormones,I enjoy Testosterone,I have just had a hysto,but being into exercise and fitness T builds muscle and sex drive,so the thought of going off T,would enact my gender dysphoria.but I know guys here who go off and on,I do think bone density may be an issue,maybe more for older guys.But really everyone's journey is different,for me going back,is something that is not an option for me,we are all on Reandron in Sydney,mainly coz we can use the andrology unit in the public hosp in Sydney,Reandron is slow release so there are no troughs,and our shots are every 3 mths,which is great,plus they do our bloods so our levels are consistent,Sustanon did not work for me.
cheers V

[DapperButch]

Ditto what Dapper said. My guess is it is full of judgments about what a "proper" penis is, and likely took on the opinions of this one transman in regard to his choices. If anyone's spent any time in active online forums for FtM's and surgery (both top and bottom), they are replete with versions of "my (existing or planned) cock/chest is better than yours". Heck, I even wonder if this guy is someone in particular who proclaimed in many places that he (unlike others) had spent many years in search of the best option and he alone had the answer because of his extensive research.

Perhaps not entirely fair since I haven't seen it, neither do I plan to. The synopsis is plenty for me, thank you!

Yes, I was assuming that this was all about Showtime sensationalizing it all, but perhaps the man himself added to that. As I was researching the movie, I came upon an article(?), about his level of misogyny/sexism as a person. So, that is interesting...maybe he assisted in Showtime going down that path. I appreciate you adding your perspective!

[curlyredhead]

I've debated for the last hour, whether I wanted to post my ramblings here or not. I tend to be a private sorta lady, but my need to understand has overwhelmed me so, here I be.

1. This isn't a medical question, more an emotional one directed at the Males partaking in this thread.

2. Where as my ex partner isn't here to add his two cents, I have nothing ill to say. He was a dynamite butch befor his transition, and now is just an incredible guy after.

For the most part, I have tossed around the idea of dropping the status label of lesbian these days, and just referring to myself as femme. Why you wonder, I'm blubbering about this here? Because randomly 5 years ago, my long term butch girlfriend stated she wanted to become a man and transition. I was shocked, angry, sad and various other things. Bottom line, I supported her right up till he was born.

Surgeries, hormones, and varies other things rocked us apart, but I remained diligent. I loved this persons soul. At this stage, I considered us a hetro couple. Something, I'd never thought I'd say, do or be. But, I did.

Things smoothed after the initial year, and then the confession came. " I can't date a lesbian, you like women. " I said yes, that's a fact, but I also love you, and you are male.

To no avail he dumped me, to date straight women.

Yet, here I see many Ftm's surrounding themselves with all sorts of labels.

So, all this rambling aside...

Have any of you males that transitioned ever felt your current (or at the time partner) looked at you as being anything but whom you are now?

My previous partner and I had this issue. However, the biggest difference between our situation and yours was I had already transitioned to male when we had met. But whenever we had fights or disagreements about things, we would end up having a discussion about how she identifies and about how I identify. That discussion was about her identifying as a Lesbian. This wasn't the first time it had happened to me, I would explain to her if you want to be with a woman, I am not the person for you because I can't give you that. She understood but it was still an issue. Long story short we are no longer together, that reason doesn't have to do with her identifying as a lesbian though.

[JDeere]

Have any of you gentleman dated a bisexual woman? One that sleeps with both men and women but is monogamous when in a relationship? If so, how did it go?

By men I mean CIS gendered males.

[DapperButch]

Have any of you gentleman dated a bisexual woman? One that sleeps with both men and women but is monogamous when in a relationship? If so, how did it go?

By men I mean CIS gendered males.

No. I have dated women who have been with cis males in the past, but no women that have identified as bisexual.

I have not dated since I started transitioning. My preference would still be to date a femme. At this point, a femme who is attracted to trans men.

[Liam]

Have any of you gentleman dated a bisexual woman? One that sleeps with both men and women but is monogamous when in a relationship? If so, how did it go?

By men I mean CIS gendered males.

Yes. Yes. From great dates to three year long relationships, I have dated several bisexual women. They went well in several different areas, I have no regrets.

[JDeere]

Thank you Dapper and Liam for your feedback!

Me and my Lady haven't had much issues with her sexuality but I think she gets a tad confused about me being trans and what it all entails, trying to educate someone who loves you is kinda hard, IMO.

[DapperButch]

Thank you Dapper and Liam for your feedback!

Me and my Lady haven't had much issues with her sexuality but I think she gets a tad confused about me being trans and what it all entails, trying to educate someone who loves you is kinda hard, IMO.

Would she be willing to read something on it?

This book gives a pretty good overview and is pretty cheap on Amazon:
https://play.google.com/store/books/details?id=gdA7AAAAQBAJ&source=productsearch&utm_source=HA_Desktop_US&utm_medium=SEM&utm_campaign=PLA&pcampaignid=MKTAD0930BO1&gl=US&gclid=CKGH3tm3lMcCFRFhNwod2HAE3g&gclsrc=ds

The other thing to get across to her is that gender is fluid for a lot of trans people. Not everyone is binary, male or female. So, you have to learn about your specific trans partner, trans friend, etc.

Has she always only dated cis females? How does she identify?

[JDeere]

Would she be willing to read something on it?

This book gives a pretty good overview and is pretty cheap on Amazon:
https://play.google.com/store/books/details?id=gdA7AAAAQBAJ&source=productsearch&utm_source=HA_Desktop_US&utm_medium=SEM&utm_campaign=PLA&pcampaignid=MKTAD0930BO1&gl=US&gclid=CKGH3tm3lMcCFRFhNwod2HAE3g&gclsrc=ds

The other thing to get across to her is that gender is fluid for a lot of trans people. Not everyone is binary, male or female. So, you have to learn about your specific trans partner, trans friend, etc.

Has she always only dated cis females? How does she identify?

She might be willing to read and she has only dated CIS males and CIS females and she ID's as bisexual. I am the first trans person she has ever come across or dated.

[DapperButch]

She might be willing to read and she has only dated CIS males and CIS females and she ID's as bisexual. I am the first trans person she has ever come across or dated.

I think her being attracted to both genders would be a good thing in your case (you describe yourself as transmasculine human) Anyway, it makes sense to me that perhaps she could be completely fulfilled sexually/emotionally , but only she knows that. I mean she is with you, right? So, she must be attracted to you!

Unless she tells you she needs to be able to relate to both sexes intimately in order to be fulfilled, I don't see why you would concern yourself with her being able to be monogamous.

[JDeere]

I think her being attracted to both genders would be a good thing in your case (you describe yourself as transmasculine human) Anyway, it makes sense to me that perhaps she could be completely fulfilled sexually/emotionally , but only she knows that. I mean she is with you, right? So, she must be attracted to you!

Unless she tells you she needs to be able to relate to both sexes intimately in order to be fulfilled, I don't see why you would concern yourself with her being able to be monogamous.

Yes good point on the being attracted to me part and the other stuff she knows as well.

She knows I won't be with any men sexually, etc. But she has been saying things about her wanting me to participate in certain sexual deals that include other women and cis males, which I do not like one bit and have told her this.

[DapperButch]

She knows I won't be with any men sexually, etc. But she has been saying things about her wanting me to participate in certain sexual deals that include other women and cis males, which I do not like one bit and have told her this.

Ok, well, that my friend is something completely different. Her desire to include others has nothing to do with being bisexual. It is just a person desiring to bring others into the bedroom. You need to find out what that is about for her.

The best advice I can give you is to never compromise yourself. If having sex with other people or agreeing to your partner having sex with other people, is not a fit for you, this may not be the relationship for you. Agreeing to something that isn't a fit for you could only be damaging to you and to the relationship.

I would suggest that you start a new thread in the SEX BDSM KINK forum here.

I think that is the best place to get other's views, thoughts, advice, and experience on bringing people into the bedroom.

Good luck.

[JDeere]

Well she ID's as bisexual so that is why I was asking the guys but I went off in a rant, sorry. But yeah I might have to go to those threads but I am not one to share or bring others into the bedroom to just "spice things up" and she has mainly said these things when we are both drunk out of our brains, so I truly don't know how to take it.

Thanks for the input y'all.

[cathexis]

/bump

Started T 125mg IM every other week for gender dysphoria. When have folks on this thread started to notice results?

Know it's a small dose, but the doc who has a clinical interest in treating trans folk doesn't seem willing to increase the T. When I asked her, she claimed to be uncomfortable increasing the dose due to the fact that I smoke cigarettes. Does this sound like an excuse to anyone?

Any advice would be helpful expect changing docs. She the only one in a 50 mile radius whose clinical interest is in transgender services.

[DapperButch]

/bump

Started T 125mg IM every other week for gender dysphoria. When have folks on this thread started to notice results?

Know it's a small dose, but the doc who has a clinical interest in treating trans folk doesn't seem willing to increase the T. When I asked her, she claimed to be uncomfortable increasing the dose due to the fact that I smoke cigarettes. Does this sound like an excuse to anyone?

Any advice would be helpful expect changing docs. She the only one in a 50 mile radius whose clinical interest is in transgender services.

Change would be very slow at .125mg. It is never a recommended starting dose. Ask her where she is getting that dose from? Assuming she is an Endocrinologist, suggest she follow the guidelines set by the Endocrine Society. Assuming she isn't an endocrinologist, tell her she should follow the Endocrine Guidelines, anyway.

But, yes, you are not supposed to be on testosterone if you smoke. But, then again, we don't give natal males testosterone blockers because they smoke, do we? I suspect you doctor is just uncomfortable prescribing hormones.

For whatever reason, she is agreeable to it. If she is going to prescribe the treatment, she needs to get some training on the proper care of the transgender patient. Personally, I would print out the Endocrine guidelines and bring them to her. 'Course that may piss her off, lol.

https://academic.oup.com/jcem/article-lookup/doi/10.1210/jc.2009-0345


http://www.bumc.bu.edu/endo/clinics/transgender-medicine/guidelines/

[Liam]

/bump

Started T 125mg IM every other week for gender dysphoria. When have folks on this thread started to notice results?

Know it's a small dose, but the doc who has a clinical interest in treating trans folk doesn't seem willing to increase the T. When I asked her, she claimed to be uncomfortable increasing the dose due to the fact that I smoke cigarettes. Does this sound like an excuse to anyone?

Any advice would be helpful expect changing docs. She the only one in a 50 mile radius whose clinical interest is in transgender services.


Sounds like you have a good doctor to me.

I take 40mg once a week. Not everyone is the same. Not everyone achieves the same results, in the same amount of time.

I believe your doctor is following the correct protocol.

[DapperButch]

Sounds like you have a good doctor to me.

I take 40mg once a week. Not everyone is the same. Not everyone achieves the same results, in the same amount of time.

I believe your doctor is following the correct protocol.

Liam, he forgot to put the . in front of the .125ml

.5ml is the most common dose. Most often people are even started at that dose.

.25 (50mg) is seen as a half dose within the trans medical community. There are people within that range, I hear you saying that you take 40mg, which is a tiny bit less.

But, .125ml? No, that is not a starting dose according to Endocrine guidelines. There is no way he is up to even low male T levels on that dose.

This doctor needs to at least be up front with him and tell him why she wants him on a dose that is not indicated for cross sex hormone treatment for the female to male transition. He needs to know if she even knows the guidelines.

cathexis, do you still have your ovaries?

[DapperButch]

Liam, he forgot to put the . in front of the .125ml

.5ml is the most common dose. Most often people are even started at that dose.

.25 (50mg) is seen as a half dose within the trans medical community. There are people within that range, I hear you saying that you take 40mg, which is a tiny bit less.

But, .125ml? No, that is not a starting dose according to Endocrine guidelines. There is no way he is up to even low male T levels on that dose.

This doctor needs to at least be up front with him and tell him why she wants him on a dose that is not indicated for cross sex hormone treatment for the female to male transition. He needs to know if she even knows the guidelines.

cathexis, do you still have your ovaries?

Additional note to Liam: I do know that people are on different doses and it is a person's T levels that matter (I assume your 40mg keeps you in average male ranges), but .125ml is not protocol for dosing. That is all I was saying.

[cathexis]

/bump

Started T 125mg IM every other week for gender dysphoria. When have folks on this thread started to notice results?

Know it's a small dose, but the doc who has a clinical interest in treating trans folk doesn't seem willing to increase the T. When I asked her, she claimed to be uncomfortable increasing the dose due to the fact that I smoke cigarettes. Does this sound like an excuse to anyone?

Any advice would be helpful expect changing docs. She the only one in a 50 mile radius whose clinical interest is in transgender services.

Yes, I'm sorry guys. Made a error in writing the dose down. The dose the doc ordered is 25 mg (or 0.125 ml) IM every 2 weeks. I think it's a low dose and confused why. Asked her if she would increase it, but would not for the reasons above.

Had told her that I was genderqueer, and that a higher level of T improved me body and mind. She diagnosed me with "gender dysphoria," and ordered T at this dose. I am concerned and confused. Anyone with any ideas why?

[kittygrrl]

Yes, I'm sorry guys. Made a error in writing the dose down. The dose the doc ordered is 25 mg (or 0.125 ml) IM every 2 weeks. I think it's a low dose and confused why. Asked her if she would increase it, but would not for the reasons above.

Had told her that I was genderqueer, and that a higher level of T improved me body and mind. She diagnosed me with "gender dysphoria," and ordered T at this dose. I am concerned and confused. Anyone with any ideas why?

Just wondering why you are not on a patch?? I hear that is the usual modem of delivery..I am not current on this subject but would like to understand too.

[Liam]

All I know, is that my doctor was relieved that I was not a smoker, and would have been hesitant to even prescribe testosterone for me, if I were.

[DapperButch]

Yes, I'm sorry guys. Made a error in writing the dose down. The dose the doc ordered is 25 mg (or 0.125 ml) IM every 2 weeks. I think it's a low dose and confused why. Asked her if she would increase it, but would not for the reasons above.

Had told her that I was genderqueer, and that a higher level of T improved me body and mind. She diagnosed me with "gender dysphoria," and ordered T at this dose. I am concerned and confused. Anyone with any ideas why?

cathexis, did you see a gender therapist prior to your decision to seek out testosterone?

[JDeere]

Yes, I'm sorry guys. Made a error in writing the dose down. The dose the doc ordered is 25 mg (or 0.125 ml) IM every 2 weeks. I think it's a low dose and confused why. Asked her if she would increase it, but would not for the reasons above.

Had told her that I was genderqueer, and that a higher level of T improved me body and mind. She diagnosed me with "gender dysphoria," and ordered T at this dose. I am concerned and confused. Anyone with any ideas why?

One is because you're a smoker, second could be the doctor either has no clue what she is doing or is not an endocrinologist.

[DapperButch]

Just wondering why you are not on a patch?? I hear that is the usual modem of delivery..I am not current on this subject but would like to understand too.

The patch is unusual in the U.S. It is most often used by cis males for low testosterone. In fact, I have never even heard of a trans man on the patch and I am on a number of trans social media group and work in trans healthcare.
Subcutaneous injection is becoming the preferred method, but intramuscular injections is still the most common, in the U.S. The gel is also popular in the U.S., but expensive. Testosterone pellets are common in the U.K. There is also injections that are done once very 3 months, also more common in the U.K.

[cathexis]

Dapper, I had my ovaries removed in 1980. Aware that this effects the T dose.

kittygrrl and Liam, cannot use patches or most probably the gels due to skin allergies. Tried to quit smoking with nicotine patches and blistered under the patch. The second one caused shortness of breath. They say my reaction due to my latex allergy that I've had for years. Got the allergy as an RN starting in 1987 when they used powdered latex gloves. Worked ICU so we used them for most patient contacts. The allergy developed to causing shortness of breath each shift. When they did the allergy testing, I had an anaphylatic reaction.

These latex allergies are very common with us older nurses which is why hospitals changed to nitrile or vinyl. Healthcare workers and patients were developing latex allergies from repeated use.

[cathexis]

cathexis, did you see a gender therapist prior to your decision to seek out testosterone?

Did not see a gender therapist; however, I did see a regular therapist then a psychiatrist. We don't have good medical resources where I live. Also, I had been on testosterone with my ERT.

Had been diagnosed with gender dysphoria and told that I would probably benefit from T. It was suggested that I consider using injectable T.

[DapperButch]

Did not see a gender therapist; however, I did see a regular therapist then a psychiatrist. We don't have good medical resources where I live. Also, I had been on testosterone with my ERT.

Had been diagnosed with gender dysphoria and told that I would probably benefit from T. It was suggested that I consider using injectable T.

I would suggest writing down/printing out the Endo protocol for testosterone treatment and bringing that into your physician. Ask them why they are not following this. Is this a PCP or an Endo? It does not need to be an Endo for good care, as an aside, as long as the person has experience. If she is a PCP and does not have experience seek out an Endo. However, I also realize, as you said, with little resources you can only go with what you got.

If you identify as genderqueer, I assume, that you do NOT want to masculinize to the point that you look male to yourself and male to others. Be aware, that no matter how small the dose, you will eventually look like every other male, including lose your hair.

You asked if we thought the reason your physician had you at a low dose was because you are genderqueer. There is not 'genderqueer dosing".

If she is starting you out on .125ml every other week, it sounds like she might be following current Endo guidelines for a 16 year old. These guidelines are most often used by Endos who are new to the work. I understand that these guidelines are being changed and new ones will be out next year.

Providers in large trans healthcare systems usually start a 16 year old boy on .3ml in order to catch up with his peers as he will not be able to pass as a 16 year old starting on such low doses. Endo guidelines are too slow and causes greater dysphoria for the teens. An adult FTM is most often started on .5ml and stays at that dose until they are about 3 years in. Then some guys drop down their dose. That is not set in stone.

I am going to assume that if your goal is to look "more masculine" as a genderqueer, that this means that you would like to look androgynous. I suspect that an experienced trans healthcare provider would start you at .2ml or .25ml, but I can't really say for certain. The problem is that we cannot pick and choose how masculinized T will make us, based on dosage (a nod to Liam here). Most physicians will not provide individuals who "just want to look more masculine" for this reason. If they do provide "low dose T", it is to give the person time to determine if they would like to transition.

If you would like, I can email the head of the trans healthcare department at the Mazonni Center in Philly and ask them their protocol. They are one of the leading programs in the U.S. I know the answer will be something like "we would talk with the pt. about their goals and then go from there", but I will push for something general.

Good luck to you.

[cathexis]

Thanks your all your advice. Definitely gives me food for thought. Am seeking more of the positive male emotional and mental attitudes. Also, wish to masculinize my appearance somewhat. Have a few more sensitive questions that I would like to ask you by PM.

Thanks to all for your assistance!

[DapperButch]

Thanks your all your advice. Definitely gives me food for thought. Am seeking more of the positive male emotional and mental attitudes. Also, wish to masculinize my appearance somewhat. Have a few more sensitive questions that I would like to ask you by PM.

Thanks to all for your assistance!

You are very welcome to PM me.

[Esme nha Maire]

Wow, I have learnt so much about you FTM gents from reading through this thread! Thank you all for sharing. May you all find inner peace and much happiness in your lives!

But I cannot help but wonder - are there any other MTFs here? I transitioned quite a while ago, but would be interested to hear of other MTF's experiences with the lesbian scene.

[Vivacious1]

I found this thread very interesting as well. I can relate to some, and some makes me have more questions.

I too was in a relationship with an FTM... He transitioned very shortly after we got together. It was a whirlwind experience for me, scary as well... confusing.. etc

I supported him through his top surgery which scared the crap outta me because I had to take care of him in the hotel after surgery, tubes and drains everywhere... Of course I messed it up, and he had to have a revision... BAD way to start a relationship...

The things I experienced with him was an excess of anger and blame, always to be put off by saying its the *T*

Then there was the group of friends that were also trans men and the comments such as *I can't believe you still ID as lesbian" I felt that they thought there was something wrong with me!!!!

Fast forward, eventually when we broke up, the comment was, * I shoulda stayed butch and you wouldn't be leaving*

Unfortunately, I think I got a lot of messages that weren't correct and maybe specific to this relationship, but, regardless, I was left feeling it was all about the trans man, and what about the femme on the other side? I was a femme, I was lost in this process of someone else's transition...

So, I guess with all this said, I am looking for clarity.. I am looking for someone that relates... maybe from the FTM side or the femme side!!!!

[Gemme]

Wow, I have learnt so much about you FTM gents from reading through this thread! Thank you all for sharing. May you all find inner peace and much happiness in your lives!

But I cannot help but wonder - are there any other MTFs here? I transitioned quite a while ago, but would be interested to hear of other MTF's experiences with the lesbian scene.

There are MTFs on the site!

I found this thread very interesting as well. I can relate to some, and some makes me have more questions.

I too was in a relationship with an FTM... He transitioned very shortly after we got together. It was a whirlwind experience for me, scary as well... confusing.. etc

I supported him through his top surgery which scared the crap outta me because I had to take care of him in the hotel after surgery, tubes and drains everywhere... Of course I messed it up, and he had to have a revision... BAD way to start a relationship...

The things I experienced with him was an excess of anger and blame, always to be put off by saying its the *T*

Then there was the group of friends that were also trans men and the comments such as *I can't believe you still ID as lesbian" I felt that they thought there was something wrong with me!!!!

Fast forward, eventually when we broke up, the comment was, * I shoulda stayed butch and you wouldn't be leaving*

Unfortunately, I think I got a lot of messages that weren't correct and maybe specific to this relationship, but, regardless, I was left feeling it was all about the trans man, and what about the femme on the other side? I was a femme, I was lost in this process of someone else's transition...

So, I guess with all this said, I am looking for clarity.. I am looking for someone that relates... maybe from the FTM side or the femme side!!!!

I can relate, V. My first relationship with a transguy went something alone those lines, except he didn't fully transition during our relationship. I was questioned about my identity, mainly by him, and the T and his journey became the focus of the relationship versus 'our' journey together.

[DapperButch]

Wow, I have learnt so much about you FTM gents from reading through this thread! Thank you all for sharing. May you all find inner peace and much happiness in your lives!

But I cannot help but wonder - are there any other MTFs here? I transitioned quite a while ago, but would be interested to hear of other MTF's experiences with the lesbian scene.

There are a couple of MTF women here. Welcome! I am very glad you are here! :bunchflowers::bunchflowers::bunchflowers:

[Esme nha Maire]

There are a couple of MTF women here. Welcome! I am very glad you are here! :bunchflowers::bunchflowers::bunchflowers:

Thank you, sir, that is sweet of you! I am moved by tales like Vivacious1's, because they really make one think about what it is to be human, to love, to be lesbian or hetty or gay or bi or whatever, and it must be so hard to find that your partner needs to become something outside of that bunch of characteristics which you find attractive, or to find that your partner simply does not have it within them to continue to love you when you become what you must for your own sanity. I count myself lucky that I have never been in such a situation thus far.

This has me pondering how I might feel if a very butch woman made a pass at me. If I found her attractive, I think I might feel a need to make it clear, as gently and politely as possible, that where butch becomes male is probably the point beyond which my emotions could not follow, except as friends. I would hope that they could understand why.

[*Anya*]

>>snip<<

This has me pondering how I might feel if a very butch woman made a pass at me. If I found her attractive, I think I might feel a need to make it clear, as gently and politely as possible, that where butch becomes male is probably the point beyond which my emotions could not follow, except as friends. I would hope that they could understand why.

Hi and welcome!

I wonder if you would mind expanding on this a little? I don't understand exactly what you mean "if a very butch woman made a pass at me...where a butch becomes male".

Are you speaking about a FTM trans person that identifies as a male or a very butch woman that identifies as female and is a butch lesbian?

Thanks!

[Esme nha Maire]

Hi and welcome!

I wonder if you would mind expanding on this a little? I don't understand exactly what you mean "if a very butch woman made a pass at me...where a butch becomes male".

Are you speaking about a FTM trans person that identifies as a male or a very butch women that identifies as female and is a butch lesbian?

Thanks!

Of course I wouldn't mind Anya. What I'm trying to get at is that I do not, at my current state of knowledge, know how I could tell a pre-transition FTM person from a non-FTM very butch woman, short of asking the individual before me whether they are FTM or not. Which would be rude. And given that I am not interested in intimate relationships with males, getting romantically involved with a pre-transition FTM would not be fair on either of us. So I'd prefer to avoid that latter possibility, and also avoid being rude, if at all possible. The only way I can see that I might possibly achieve both objectives is by intimating what it is that I want, rather than asking them if they are FTM or not. If there is a better way, I am all ears!

[AmazonDC]

Of course I wouldn't mind Anya. What I'm trying to get at is that I do not, at my current state of knowledge, know how I could tell a pre-transition FTM person from a non-FTM very butch woman, short of asking the individual before me whether they are FTM or not. Which would be rude. And given that I am not interested in intimate relationships with males, getting romantically involved with a pre-transition FTM would not be fair on either of us. So I'd prefer to avoid that latter possibility, and also avoid being rude, if at all possible. The only way I can see that I might possibly achieve both objectives is by intimating what it is that I want, rather than asking them if they are FTM or not. If there is a better way, I am all ears!

Hi there.. so I am a middlesexed genetically neither male or female.. I am a Queer Male identified person.. I have a genetic illness called CAH . I am genetically neither male or female although I am male in appearance I am female in body parts... The rainbow has many spectrums.. you asking if they are pre or post op is not rude its honest.. Honesty is always the best practice.. I am lucky enough to be with a woman who love the Me, I am.. Dont ever think asking such a question is rude.. that person I am quite sure has been asked the same question if not worse many times before.. I am questioned and asked things 24-7.lol

[Wrang1er]

I found this thread very interesting as well. I can relate to some, and some makes me have more questions.

I too was in a relationship with an FTM... He transitioned very shortly after we got together. It was a whirlwind experience for me, scary as well... confusing.. etc

I supported him through his top surgery which scared the crap outta me because I had to take care of him in the hotel after surgery, tubes and drains everywhere... Of course I messed it up, and he had to have a revision... BAD way to start a relationship...

The things I experienced with him was an excess of anger and blame, always to be put off by saying its the *T*

Then there was the group of friends that were also trans men and the comments such as *I can't believe you still ID as lesbian" I felt that they thought there was something wrong with me!!!!

Fast forward, eventually when we broke up, the comment was, * I shoulda stayed butch and you wouldn't be leaving*

Unfortunately, I think I got a lot of messages that weren't correct and maybe specific to this relationship, but, regardless, I was left feeling it was all about the trans man, and what about the femme on the other side? I was a femme, I was lost in this process of someone else's transition...

So, I guess with all this said, I am looking for clarity.. I am looking for someone that relates... maybe from the FTM side or the femme side!!!!


You aren't alone in this. There's actually a song by a queer band called Coyote Grace. The song is titled Picture Frame.

[Esme nha Maire]

Hi there.. so I am a middlesexed genetically neither male or female.. I am a Queer Male identified person.. I have a genetic illness called CAH . I am genetically neither male or female although I am male in appearance I am female in body parts... The rainbow has many spectrums.. you asking if they are pre or post op is not rude its honest.. Honesty is always the best practice.. I am lucky enough to be with a woman who love the Me, I am.. Dont ever think asking such a question is rude.. that person I am quite sure has been asked the same question if not worse many times before.. I am questioned and asked things 24-7.lol

DaddyChrisCo - thank you for your response, it is appreciated, but my dilemma was more to do with what if I cannot tell if they are FTM? If they are FTM, then I need to politely decline the pass. If they are not, then we're all good. If they're FTM, then being pre or postop has no bearing on it - I would not be interested in dating them to avoid unecessary heartbreak for both of us. I'm very glad that you have a loving partner!

[AmazonDC]

DaddyChrisCo - thank you for your response, it is appreciated, but my dilemma was more to do with what if I cannot tell if they are FTM? If they are FTM, then I need to politely decline the pass. If they are not, then we're all good. If they're FTM, then being pre or postop has no bearing on it - I would not be interested in dating them to avoid unecessary heartbreak for both of us. I'm very glad that you have a loving partner!

All you can do is have a conversation with them.. simply ask if they are from and just tell them you mean no harm and let them know your preferance..honesty and being upfront is always the answer

[*Anya*]

DaddyChrisCo - thank you for your response, it is appreciated, but my dilemma was more to do with what if I cannot tell if they are FTM? If they are FTM, then I need to politely decline the pass. If they are not, then we're all good. If they're FTM, then being pre or postop has no bearing on it - I would not be interested in dating them to avoid unecessary heartbreak for both of us. I'm very glad that you have a loving partner!

I hope it is ok to piggyback off of your response.

I am very attracted to butch, female-identified, lesbian women. Sometimes, there is no way to know if someone is a male-identified trans person vs. a butch lesbian.

I look at it as a potential friendship.

If someone indicates interest in you and you have interest in them, that is the beginning.

I don't ever want to be afraid of a potential friendship with someone even if they might not be someone I would want to date on an intimate basis.

It sounds like you have some fear of getting involved and then finding out it is not something that you want to pursue.

I think that is the risk for all of us out in the world. Sometimes we are initially attracted to someone and then find out that there is no chemistry.

It is that way regardless of how someone identifies.

The only time in my own life that I felt unsafe or felt that something could or would happen that I did not have the power to stop was before I came out, with a biological male.

Not that it could never happen with a LGBTQ person, but I think most of us are very sensitive to the feelings of others and don't want to be where we are not wanted.

DaddyChrisCo is right, when you really need to know, ask kindly and with respect.

We can never go wrong with that approach.

[Esme nha Maire]

Anya, thank you. Probably me overthinking things, then.

[Martina]

I think it is rude to ask if you are just curious, but if it is a potential dating situation, you need to know.

[*Anya*]

Anya, thank you. Probably me overthinking things, then.

You are welcome!

I had another thought.

No matter who we are attracted to, people change over the years.

We have no way to know when someone may be unconsciously struggling with gender or identity issues.

As time goes on, the unconscious can become conscious.

It does not mean that the person was being dishonest, they may not have even been aware of their feelings.

There is no way to prepare for every eventuality.

When I was 16, I saw my first butch. I knew that she gave me butterflies in my stomach and that I felt extremely nervous when I was around her.

I married and had 2 children before my repressed lesbian feelings came to the surface and I was in touch with them consciously.

The end of my marriage had zero to do with this but what if it did?

All we can do is to be as honest as we can be with ourselves and pay attention to anything that gives us concern when we meet people to date.

Dating is anxiety-producing, regardless.

Sometimes, we just have to take a chance and go for it.

I have been single again since this past October. I just realized it has been 10 months and that I still have not felt ready to date yet.

I can give advice, maybe I should take it...

:blush:

[Vivacious1]

While reading the past few post, I had another question come up for whoever wants to answer...
I have personally know several trans men that felt it was not important to share their transition with women that they dated... Wondering what others think on this????

[DapperButch]

All you can do is have a conversation with them.. simply ask if they are from and just tell them you mean no harm and let them know your preferance..honesty and being upfront is always the answer

Yes.

Esme, nha Maire,

Yes, it is completely appropriate (and most likely appreciated) to ask those questions. In places where you find butch,femme, and trans identifying people, gender is talked about a lot. Part of that is because people are figuring out for themselves who they are as it relates to gender. On top of that is figuring out who you are attracted to! Therefore, it is common, very common, expected really, that soon in one would ask how the person identifies. You hear a lot more variance in butches than you do in femmes. I think that part of that is because one slides along the gender continuum with butches in the way that you don't (as often), with femmes.

It sounds like you are interested in a female identified butch. You may only be interested in a female identified and woman identified butch (who most likely identifies as a lesbian).

Too, I think it would be prudent to ask any butch presenting female bodied person if they have ever considered transitioning. If they say, yes they have, you might want to take pause. Like you said, no reason to start going down a road that leads to only heartbreak. I am with you.

Prior to transitioning I identified as a Stone Butch. Which, for me, meant no sexual contact with my chest or genitals in the bedroom. I also did not identify as a woman. I dated queer stone femmes. The queer stone femmes I dated didn't want to touch my chest or "junk" any more than I wanted them to. They didn't see themselves as a lesbian because they had no interest in interacting with a female chest or genitals. I didn't view myself as a lesbian because I wasn't a woman. So it all worked out!

Anyway, know what you want, and make sure that both the person's gender identity and their sexual preferences are a match for you. It is pretty common to find butch/femme folks involved in kink or BDSM.

Good luck!

[AmazonDC]

While reading the past few post, I had another question come up for whoever wants to answer...
I have personally know several trans men that felt it was not important to share their transition with women that they dated... Wondering what others think on this????

Personally My opinion is if you are in a relationship there should be no secrets... I am all about up front honesty...this was one of the first things Gemme and I discussed

[Vivacious1]

what if it is just casual dating?

The reason that I am curious is, that I know some folks that date and don't disclose... what if it gets serious, would that be considered deception?

[AmazonDC]

what if it is just casual dating?

The reason that I am curious is, that I know some folks that date and don't disclose... what if it gets serious, would that be considered deception?

Yes honesty is above everything else.. I would never be with someone I couldn't be with.. maybe that person is just uncomfortable talking about it? But it needs to be talked about.. weather it is casual or serious

[girl_dee]

what if it is just casual dating?

The reason that I am curious is, that I know some folks that date and don't disclose... what if it gets serious, would that be considered deception?

i would want to know right up front.

[DapperButch]

I found this thread very interesting as well. I can relate to some, and some makes me have more questions.

I too was in a relationship with an FTM... He transitioned very shortly after we got together. It was a whirlwind experience for me, scary as well... confusing.. etc

I supported him through his top surgery which scared the crap outta me because I had to take care of him in the hotel after surgery, tubes and drains everywhere... Of course I messed it up, and he had to have a revision... BAD way to start a relationship...

The things I experienced with him was an excess of anger and blame, always to be put off by saying its the *T*

Then there was the group of friends that were also trans men and the comments such as *I can't believe you still ID as lesbian" I felt that they thought there was something wrong with me!!!!

Fast forward, eventually when we broke up, the comment was, * I shoulda stayed butch and you wouldn't be leaving*

Unfortunately, I think I got a lot of messages that weren't correct and maybe specific to this relationship, but, regardless, I was left feeling it was all about the trans man, and what about the femme on the other side? I was a femme, I was lost in this process of someone else's transition...

So, I guess with all this said, I am looking for clarity.. I am looking for someone that relates... maybe from the FTM side or the femme side!!!!

When trans people are medically transitioning, their partners are transitioning, as well. They get lost in their partners' transition, and that isn't fair. A good gender therapist will think about the trans person's partner, and other family members, too. There are a handful support groups on FB for partners of trans people.
One partner's gender identity/sexual orientation should not define the other person's. There is nothing wrong with identifying as lesbian when you are with a trans man. People identify as lesbian and date cis, straight men.
T is a bullshit excuse. Trans men don't get a pass on learning to manage this agitating-type hormone any more than cis men do.
Unless it is something super obvious, I suspect his need for revision had nothing to do with your care. Many, many guys need revisions after top surgery.

While reading the past few post, I had another question come up for whoever wants to answer...
I have personally know several trans men that felt it was not important to share their transition with women that they dated... Wondering what others think on this????

Are you talking about trans men who are moving through society as male? Are you talking about when they are dating in the heterosexual community?

I am asking because the other poster was talking about trans guys who are pre-T, and if she it is rude to ask masculine looking females if they identify as butch or trans/ a combo of both.

These are two different topics, in my mind.

what if it is just casual dating?

The reason that I am curious is, that I know some folks that date and don't disclose... what if it gets serious, would that be considered deception?

Same as above.

[Kobi]

One partner's gender identity/sexual orientation should not define the other person's. There is nothing wrong with identifying as lesbian when you are with a trans man. People identify as lesbian and date cis, straight men.




Wow. As a lesbian, I can tell you that negates the very essence of who we are.

It is also derogating, insulting and demeaning.

[BullDog]

Kobi, I really hope you are just speaking for yourself because there are plenty of lesbians that don't share your views, and there are lesbians who do date trans men and they still identify as lesbians.

[Gemme]

Word, Bully.

[AmazonDC]

Kobi, I really hope you are just speaking for yourself because there are plenty of lesbians that don't share your views, and there are lesbians who do date trans men and they still identify as lesbians.
AGREED!!!! Couldnt have said it better Myself...

[Kobi]

If who you sleep with does not define who and what you are, then you are negating the very essence of not only lesbianism but of homosexuality itself. And you are also negating the concept of sexual orientation.

That is some major homophobia rearing its ugly head.

The fact that people do not find this disturbing on a queer site is mind boggling.

[AmazonDC]

If who you sleep with does not define who and what you are, then you are negating the very essence of not only lesbianism but of homosexuality itself. And you are also negating the concept of sexual orientation.

That is some major homophobia rearing its ugly head.

The fact that people do not find this disturbing on a queer site is mind boggling.



I have found that lesbians are the most judgmental in accepting of all lgbtq... so you are saying in your eyes ftm and people Like Me Queer Middle sexed people should not be here??? That's the very definition of homophobia... and non acceptance of every flavor of Our big rainbow... Not every lesbian is just a simple butch or femme... there are many spectrums... the lesbian community lacks acceptance of things other than the cookie cutter "lesbian "... makes Me very sad

[BullDog]

Kobi, I find your transphobia mind boggling.

First of all, how is your life, identity, sexuality, sexual orientation, gender identity or anything else defined by someone else's dating choices?

Another lesbian's dating life doesn't define me or anyone else.

And who you date does not define who you are either. If I ended up dating someone who didn't id as femme that wouldn't mean I wasn't butch all of a sudden.

A lesbian can date another lesbian, another woman who doesn't id as lesbian, someone gender queer, a trans man, a cis man, etc. She may very still see herself as a lesbian because that is how she has id'd for a long time and it didn't suddenly change just because she is dating someone of a different id than she did before.

Being a lesbian is not just about who you sleep with. There are community and social ties, your own personal history, your own sense of how you identify and a whole host of other factors that go into it.

You only get to define lesbian for you Kobi.

[JDeere]

If who you sleep with does not define who and what you are, then you are negating the very essence of not only lesbianism but of homosexuality itself. And you are also negating the concept of sexual orientation.

That is some major homophobia rearing its ugly head.

The fact that people do not find this disturbing on a queer site is mind boggling.



I'm asking for myself, not anyone else. Do you see or define lesbian as 2 cis gendered women in an adult relationship?

[hopelessromantic69]

I'm asking for myself, not anyone else. Do you see or define lesbian as 2 cis gendered women in an adult relationship?

In my opinion no one has the right to define anyone's relationship. I'm not sure why people think they are so important that they can impose their opinions on a whole group of people. We all need to stop slapping labels on people and let them live their life as they see fit.
As a trans man I have been shocked by how a small group of woman in our community like to marginalize FTMs when they them selves are marginalized by our society as a whole. You would think they would have a better understanding of how that feels.
Also, enough with the definitions. They are only someone's opinion anyway. How about we are all just human beings. There! Then no one can judge or hate if we are not defined, categorized or labeled. We are not insects for god sakes.
Sorry JDeere for jumping on my soap box. I get tired of being analyzed just to make a few others feel superior over another group of people.

[Kobi]

I'm asking for myself, not anyone else. Do you see or define lesbian as 2 cis gendered women in an adult relationship?



A lesbian by definition is a female homosexual aka same sex.

A gay man, by definition is a male homosexual aka same sex.

A bisexual, by definition is someone who sleeps with both sexes.

A heterosexual, by definition pertains to opposite sexes.

These are not my definitions, they are the definitions of sexual orientation.

This next part has nothing to do with you JD.

If you believe someone can identify as a lesbian or a female homosexual and sleep with trans or cis men or butches with dont touch my woman parts parameters, you have just negated their homosexuality/lesbianism/same sex orientation. You have just said, they are other than woman oriented, thus not homosexual. That is simple applied logic and common sense.

When a lesbian speaks to this, she does so because her identity as a female homosexual/same sex person is being negated or marginalized or distorted in their own supposed community by their own supposed community members. That is being disrespectful of someone else's identity. It is also homophobic.

And, more amazingly, the 4 of you think a female sticking up for herself and for homosexuals somehow translates into transphobia? Wow, talk about adding insult to injury.

A woman can say she is a lesbian or homosexual and sleep with variations of maleness but that is the antithesis of what a female homosexual is. I can say I am a heterosexual woman who only sleeps with other women but that is the antithesis of a heterosexual. I can say I am a giraffe but the other giraffes just pat me on the head and laugh at me when I do that - long story.

Gay people fight for gay marriage and even gay rights because they are homosexuals - same sex folks who fight for our right to exist, to be seen for who we are, and to be respected for who we are. And who we are are homosexuals - in same sex relationships.

And no one, even our own community, has the right to negate who we are, define who we are, to tell us we are something other than what we are, or to misconstrue the reality of who we are to make it more convenient for or more in tune to what they need us to be in order to validate themselves.

And, as I am on a roll here, this behavior is very much coming from a place of real or imagined male privilege. Hence, it is not only homophobic, it is also sexist and misogynistic.

[Gemme]

Wow. I'm sexist and misogynistic and am experiencing male privilege (since I think I may be included in the 4 you mentioned...maybe not...you weren't entirely clear about who you were addressing)?

You said yourself, Kobi, that "And no one, even our own community, has the right to negate who we are, define who we are, to tell us we are something other than what we are, or to misconstrue the reality of who we are to make it more convenient for or more in tune to what they need us to be in order to validate themselves."

What do you think you are doing to those lesbians who DO love and sleep with other people outside of your narrow scope that identify as lesbian? Yes, the definition of lesbian is rather narrow but then homosexuality was deemed a mental illness for eons. Science has been proven to be slow catching up to reality. So, scientifically, you are correct. Morally? Eh.....you are being hypocritical.

[Gemme]

In my opinion no one has the right to define anyone's relationship. I'm not sure why people think they are so important that they can impose their opinions on a whole group of people. We all need to stop slapping labels on people and let them live their life as they see fit.
As a trans man I have been shocked by how a small group of woman in our community like to marginalize FTMs when they them selves are marginalized by our society as a whole. You would think they would have a better understanding of how that feels.
Also, enough with the definitions. They are only someone's opinion anyway. How about we are all just human beings. There! Then no one can judge or hate if we are not defined, categorized or labeled. We are not insects for god sakes.
Sorry JDeere for jumping on my soap box. I get tired of being analyzed just to make a few others feel superior over another group of people.

Yes.

Thank you.

[AmazonDC]

If who you sleep with does not define who and what you are, then you are negating the very essence of not only lesbianism but of homosexuality itself. And you are also negating the concept of sexual orientation.

That is some major homophobia rearing its ugly head.

The fact that people do not find this disturbing on a queer site is mind boggling.



Ummm by your definition this is a lesbian site not a queer site.. I don't understand why people have to worry about others bedrooms? Also by your definition STONE BUTCHES would not be lesbians either... so confused who qualifies... In the end your view and the views of other who may share this view dont dictate who others love or their identity... More love in this world and acceptance is what the world truely needs

[DapperButch]

Ummm by your definition this is a lesbian site not a queer site.. I don't understand why people have to worry about others bedrooms? Also by your definition STONE BUTCHES would not be lesbians either... so confused who qualifies... In the end your view and the views of other who may share this view dont dictate who others love or their identity... More love in this world and acceptance is what the world truely needs

Yes. If this was a lesbian site, by the above definition..."women loving women with no sexual boundaries", then the site would be cut by probably 75%.

It is my understanding, that this is a butch (as gender) and femme (as gender) site. There is also a long tradition of people who regard themselves as either completely outside of, or somewhat outside of, what is male or female (aka trans), being on a forum like this.

Some of us happen to identify as lesbian, as well.

The site is more about gender and who we are, than who we fuck, in my opinion. We are here because we are all queer and the butch-femme dynamic speaks to us in some way. Some of us have been together since 1998 when another butch-femme forum opened.

[JDeere]

A lesbian by definition is a female homosexual aka same sex.

A gay man, by definition is a male homosexual aka same sex.

A bisexual, by definition is someone who sleeps with both sexes.

A heterosexual, by definition pertains to opposite sexes.

These are not my definitions, they are the definitions of sexual orientation.

This next part has nothing to do with you JD.

If you believe someone can identify as a lesbian or a female homosexual and sleep with trans or cis men or butches with dont touch my woman parts parameters, you have just negated their homosexuality/lesbianism/same sex orientation. You have just said, they are other than woman oriented, thus not homosexual. That is simple applied logic and common sense.

When a lesbian speaks to this, she does so because her identity as a female homosexual/same sex person is being negated or marginalized or distorted in their own supposed community by their own supposed community members. That is being disrespectful of someone else's identity. It is also homophobic.

And, more amazingly, the 4 of you think a female sticking up for herself and for homosexuals somehow translates into transphobia? Wow, talk about adding insult to injury.

A woman can say she is a lesbian or homosexual and sleep with variations of maleness but that is the antithesis of what a female homosexual is. I can say I am a heterosexual woman who only sleeps with other women but that is the antithesis of a heterosexual. I can say I am a giraffe but the other giraffes just pat me on the head and laugh at me when I do that - long story.

Gay people fight for gay marriage and even gay rights because they are homosexuals - same sex folks who fight for our right to exist, to be seen for who we are, and to be respected for who we are. And who we are are homosexuals - in same sex relationships.

And no one, even our own community, has the right to negate who we are, define who we are, to tell us we are something other than what we are, or to misconstrue the reality of who we are to make it more convenient for or more in tune to what they need us to be in order to validate themselves.

And, as I am on a roll here, this behavior is very much coming from a place of real or imagined male privilege. Hence, it is not only homophobic, it is also sexist and misogynistic.



Thanks for answering!

[JDeere]

In my opinion no one has the right to define anyone's relationship. I'm not sure why people think they are so important that they can impose their opinions on a whole group of people. We all need to stop slapping labels on people and let them live their life as they see fit.
As a trans man I have been shocked by how a small group of woman in our community like to marginalize FTMs when they them selves are marginalized by our society as a whole. You would think they would have a better understanding of how that feels.
Also, enough with the definitions. They are only someone's opinion anyway. How about we are all just human beings. There! Then no one can judge or hate if we are not defined, categorized or labeled. We are not insects for god sakes.
Sorry JDeere for jumping on my soap box. I get tired of being analyzed just to make a few others feel superior over another group of people.

I was asking for my own knowledge to try to understand where Koni is coming from, not to hear other's go off on a soapbox. Enjoy your day.

[*Anya*]

I don't even know where to start.

I can't believe the negative turn that this thread has taken.

Kobi, to quote you, yes, the following is correct:

>>>snip<<<

"A lesbian by definition is a female homosexual aka same sex.

A gay man, by definition is a male homosexual aka same sex.

A bisexual, by definition is someone who sleeps with both sexes.

A heterosexual, by definition pertains to opposite sexes.

These are not my definitions, they are the definitions of sexual orientation."

The following, according to my own perception and knowledge is also correct:

1. This website is not a strictly lesbian website. Some of the admins may be but it has always been stressed that it is open to everyone on the continuum of identity and sexuality.

2. I did not know that when I arrived here. I was surprised. I had thought it was a butch femme lesbian site.

3. I quickly realized that how I did lesbian was not the same as everyone else's and if I did not like it or did not feel comfortable here: I could simply move on.

4. I decided to learn, to grow, to work on being less judgmental and rigid in my thinking.

5. I do not think that it is homophobic for any LGBTQ person to identify themselves however they see fit and for whatever may feel comfortable.

6. I am a lesbian. I only date, fall in love with and have sex with female-identified butch lesbians. I will always jump in when I feel lesbians are being attacked, put down or if lesbiphobia is going on.

Example, I read the following sentence and did not like it at all: "I have found that lesbians are the most judgmental in accepting of all lgbtq".

It is those kind of generalizing statements that push my buttons. It would be as though I would say, "I find that trans folk are the most judgmental...".

Let's not lump all people in one pile please! Some lesbians are judgmental. Some trans folk are judgmental. Some people, in general are judgmental.

Have folks given thought to how some lesbians may be feeling? Especially older lesbians? As a group, in the LGBTQ, community, we may have become more inclusive and our circle has widened, but as a lesbian, there are fewer female-butch lesbians than there used to be.

Many butch lesbians find, through the process of finding their real, true self, that they want to transition. That is good for them but as a lesbian, sexually and emotionally attracted to female-identified butches: I have a sense of loss. A loss of another lesbian. That is not transphobia. That is reality. One can take that personally or one can gain a little understanding of where some lesbians may be coming from. I say some because I can't speak for all lesbians!

None of us can speak for others. Perhaps we can offer some different perspectives and hopefully, we are willing to be open-minded enough to learn and grow from it.

I hope that in the same way, we need to understand the journey of a trans person and be able to put ourselves in those shoes; that trans folk can also understand where some lesbians may be coming from.

I think that as a community, we will self-destruct if we do not accept each other. I do not feel that anyone, anywhere gets to identify someone else. We just do not have that right.

Yes, there are scientific definitions of every sexuality and identity but as human beings, we get to define ourselves. We get to decide how open and accepting we are.

I define lesbian my way.

I fought hard to do that and no one gets to tell me I am wrong.

No one.

[AmazonDC]

Yes. If this was a lesbian site, by the above definition..."women loving women with no sexual boundaries", then the site would be cut by probably 75%.

It is my understanding, that this is a butch (as gender) and femme (as gender) site. There is also a long tradition of people who regard themselves as either completely outside of, or somewhat outside of, what is male or female (aka trans), being on a forum like this.

Some of us happen to identify as lesbian, as well.

The site is more about gender and who we are, than who we fuck, in my opinion. We are here because we are all queer and the butch-femme dynamic speaks to us in some way. Some of us have been together since 1998 when another butch-femme forum opened.

I remember the old site... I'm not trying to disrespect anyone on here but for someone to make it seem like peoe who aren't cut and dry just lesbians is disrespectful in itself.ty Dapper foe your input..

[Kobi]

First off, Gemme I was not including you in the 4. So you can nix that misconception.

As far as the rest I am now confused.

You tell us a FTM means a female to a male. And a MTF means a male to female.

I am not questioning how you got to male or female. I am factoring your self identity into the definitions of sexual orientation.

But now it appears you are saying sexual orientation, like gender, is a social construct. Hence, sexual orientation must be looked at as irrelevant and immaterial to who people are and how they see themselves.

Thats going to be news to those of us who see ourselves as gay, lesbian, homosexual and bisexual. Being gay, lesbian, homosexual, or bisexual is a huge part of who we are, how we define ourselves, the essence of who we are, and how we relate to the world. Whether it is too narrowly focused for YOUR tastes does not mean WE have to change to accommodate YOU.

It means we have the right to be seen for who we are, by our definition, for us. And, that definition is for us to make not you. This is our identity and it should be honored and respected, not negated, hijacked, or misconstrued to be something else.

If this doesnt suit another part of the spectrum, who thinks they have the right to define gay, lesbians, homosexual, and bisexuals people in a way that suits themselves is a problem of another sort.

The fact this is not seen as negating, homophobic, lesbophobic, biphobic and downright rude is very disturbing. It is a giant slap in the face and very disturbing.

[kittygrrl]

I have found that lesbians are the most judgmental in accepting of all lgbtq... so you are saying in your eyes ftm and people Like Me Queer Middle sexed people should not be here??? That's the very definition of homophobia... and non acceptance of every flavor of Our big rainbow... Not every lesbian is just a simple butch or femme... there are many spectrums... the lesbian community lacks acceptance of things other than the cookie cutter "lesbian "... makes Me very sad

I agree...I find the "We must adhere and keep to lesbian ideas of purity" to be repugnant since I did not fit into what they considered "lesbian" when I first came out. I was shunned within the lesbian community because I did not "fit" their ideas about what being lesbian was. Seriously, fuck those kinds of social constructs.

[AmazonDC]

I agree...I find the "We must adhere and keep to lesbian ideas of purity" to be repugnant since I did not fit into what they considered "lesbian" when I first came out. I was shunned within the lesbian community because I did not "fit" their ideas about what being lesbian was. Seriously, fuck those kinds of social constructs.

Glad so me one else gets it... I was born different and I wont let anyone define who or what I am.. people need to band together not drawn lines in the sand... if the l gbtq community dont support each other then We will continue to struggle to be equal in the eyes of the world and with each other

[Kobi]

And while I am at, let me say this as well.

And, in my 61 years, I was never subjected to any outright display of homophobia by the public. I am now.

As an atypical woman who is very proud to be a woman, who accepts and really likes all her female parts, and who has always done woman my way, I am tired of well meaning people in the world thinking they are doing something noble, sensitive, and accepting by referring to my atypicalness as trans.

It is a royal slap in the face to me. They dont mean to be derogatory or rude, nor do they even understand they are being derogatory and rude. But they are. And that narrative didnt come from me. But, I have to continually address it.

I also now get called a fucking faggot by people who are upset by and confused by transgenderism. They are equating trans with gay, gender with sexual orientation because they see an umbrella that starts with LGB, thus everything thereafter is also LBG. It is easier for them to call me a fucking faggot than to flip thru the manual so know who they are really upset with.

I got used to being scrutinized when I went into gender segregated public bathrooms and locker rooms. Now, I get antsy because people equate me with something I am not and see me as a threat to them and their children.

And, I come here, someplace that should be a safe place for me and I get more shit from people who should know better. Why does this happen? Cuz I have the audacity to stand up stand up for being a proud biological woman and a lesbian.

And, you accuse me of not acting in MY best interests because you dont like how I vote or how I decide who to vote for. Gays, blacks, immigrants not voting democrat? OMG what a sacrilege.

And yet, when I do act in MY best interests as a woman and a lesbian and speak to it, you tell me I dont have the right to do that cuz my definitions are too narrow for your tastes?

You want me to have your back but apparently it is a one way street. There is no reciprocity. And any attempt to discuss it is automatically denounced as transphobic when you actual behavior is homophobic.

There is something screwed up in the way people think these days and it keeps getting more and more screwy and disturbing.

[AmazonDC]

And while I am at, let me say this as well.

And, in my 61 years, I was never subjected to any outright display of homophobia by the public. I am now.

As an atypical woman who is very proud to be a woman, who accepts and really likes all her female parts, and who has always done woman my way, I am tired of well meaning people in the world thinking they are doing something noble, sensitive, and accepting by referring to my atypicalness as trans.

It is a royal slap in the face to me. They dont mean to be derogatory or rude, nor do they even understand they are being derogatory and rude. But they are. And that narrative didnt come from me. But, I have to continually address it.

I also now get called a fucking faggot by people who are upset by and confused by transgenderism. They are equating trans with gay, gender with sexual orientation because they see an umbrella that starts with LGB, thus everything thereafter is also LBG. It is easier for them to call me a fucking faggot than to flip thru the manual so know who they are really upset with.

I got used to being scrutinized when I went into gender segregated public bathrooms and locker rooms. Now, I get antsy because people equate me with something I am not and see me as a threat to them and their children.

And, I come here, someplace that should be a safe place for me and I get more shit from people who should know better. Why does this happen? Cuz I have the audacity to stand up stand up for being a proud biological woman and a lesbian.

And, you accuse me of not acting in MY best interests because you dont like how I vote or how I decide who to vote for. Gays, blacks, immigrants not voting democrat? OMG what a sacrilege.

And yet, when I do act in MY best interests as a woman and a lesbian and speak to it, you tell me I dont have the right to do that cuz my definitions are too narrow for your tastes?

You want me to have your back but apparently it is a one way street. There is no reciprocity. And any attempt to discuss it is automatically denounced as transphobic when you actual behavior is homophobic.

There is something screwed up in the way people think these days and it keeps getting more and more screwy and disturbing.




First no one said do by be proud too be a woman.. I said don't make your views the ma factory view.. I never said anything about your political views either so don't k ow where that is coming from.. it seems to Me someone mistreated you so now you don't like that which you were seen as.. that's not My fault it's societies fault... I ha e had to use the male bathroom since I was 15 do to no doing of Myh own do I k ow very well about the struggles and bei g called faggot and Dyke and freak... Mobil you do you bud I am done with this thread as it is called ask trans anything and no. Trans are in here mucking it up.. have a good weekend and try to let that chip on your shoulder go.. I am not the enemy.. narrow mindedness is

[Medusa]

Folks:


We have had some reported posts in the last couple of days so let me clarify a few things so that we can keep this discussion moving:

1. This is a queer site, not just a lesbian site, and most certainly not just a site for Butches and Femmes.

2. The Butch and Femme Community has always consisted of people who identify in all different kinds of ways. That is not always comfortable for other people but we need to be focusing on how we identify within ourselves and not policing how other people identify.

3. Who you fuck does not determine how you can identify. That is a patriarchal notion that often subjugates women and gay men based on who gets penetrated, and obviously that's bullshit.

4. Gender is fluid, unless it isn't for you. Identity is contextual, unless it isn't for you. Your Feminism may adjust based on your experiences, unless it doesn't. Bottom line, how you do you is your business and how other people do them is their business. That doesn't mean we don't question bad behavior or call out sexism, but when it comes to personal identity politics maybe we can put more energy into listening to each other and less energy into telling each other who you must be based on my own narrative.


Also? It is super problematic to have folks who don't identify as Trans in a Trans thread telling Trans people about their lives as much as it is having folks who don't identify as Lesbian in a Lesbian thread telling Lesbians about their lives. Let's be conscious of one another's space, ok?


Thanks,
Angie

[hopelessromantic69]

I was asking for my own knowledge to try to understand where Koni is coming from, not to hear other's go off on a soapbox. Enjoy your day.

Sorry about that. I shouldn't have tied it to your post.

[DapperButch]

So, who has a question they want to ask a trans person? :deepthoughts: Welcome to the site, Esme! Sorry, it got all wonky.

[Esme nha Maire]

So, who has a question they want to ask a trans person? :deepthoughts: Welcome to the site, Esme! Sorry, it got all wonky.

(Chuckle) you've no need to apologise to me, m'dear!

I do have a question, actually. Did anyone else - MTF or FTM - initially go for the societal stereotype of how they perceived their correct gender to present, then over time find that that's maybe not the best fit for who they are?

[AmazonDC]

(Chuckle) you've no need to apologise to me, m'dear!

I do have a question, actually. Did anyone else - MTF or FTM - initially go for the societal stereotype of how they perceived their correct gender to present, then over time find that that's maybe not the best fit for who they are?

Absolutely... I wore the dresses and makeup and tried to be a "WOMAN" but because of My CHA I just excepted that I have no gender genetically so now I am male identified and happy as I am..

[Gemme]

Sorry about that. I shouldn't have tied it to your post.

I'm calling bullshit. Not to you, hopeless, but because you were made to feel as if you should apologize. Your post was fine and very well said. It wasn't hurtful and any question asked publicly is open for discussion by any and all. No apology necessary to anyone or for anything.

I have a question, Dapper.

Did anyone else watch Transformers and wish they would turn into counterparts? Seriously. I used to wish it and everything. I pulled a turkey bone once on it.

:blink:

[Vivacious1]

Hey Dapper!
Thanks for your thoughts.
Unfortunately, when I was going through the surgery with my ex, I was naïve at best. I supported him fully with his transition, but honestly had no idea what I was really getting involved with. I wish we would have seen a therapist!!!! I guess the point was that I was overwhelmed by the responsibility of his care after surgery :)

As far as my other questions, I am talking about a Trans man dating any female. (straight or gay) I have had this conversation with trans men and several felt that it was their right to not disclose transitioning. So, in essence their date is blind to the whole story... what if it goes further???? what if they end up making out???? Is that fair? Or is the date an ass because when they get to that point of making out, she is not ok with either the fact he is trans or the fact that he wasn't honest???

Hope that cleared it up :)

[Vivacious1]

The anger expressed earlier with identity issues is exactly what I was talking about in my earlier post. These are the responses I got when I dated a trans man. I cannot speak for others, but it is hurtful and closed minded and makes me feel quite uncomfortable.

[hopelessromantic69]

I'm calling bullshit. Not to you, hopeless, but because you were made to feel as if you should apologize. Your post was fine and very well said. It wasn't hurtful and any question asked publicly is open for discussion by any and all. No apology necessary to anyone or for anything.

I have a question, Dapper.

Did anyone else watch Transformers and wish they would turn into counterparts? Seriously. I used to wish it and everything. I pulled a turkey bone once on it.

:blink:

Oh I wasn't apologizing for what I wrote one bit. I was apologizing to JDEERE for hijacking that post. I should have just replied without the quote.

[DapperButch]

(Chuckle) you've no need to apologise to me, m'dear!

I do have a question, actually. Did anyone else - MTF or FTM - initially go for the societal stereotype of how they perceived their correct gender to present, then over time find that that's maybe not the best fit for who they are?

Hi, there. No, my "way of being", male is not out of sync with the other males in my social group/area I live in. I have always been masculine. I am not around any tobacco chewing, crotch grabbing guys which IS a place where I would stand out like a sore thumb.

I know what you are talking about though. Some trans people feel pressure to "fit" that super feminine or super masculine ideal. They worry about "fitting in " for a number of reasons....for example, some trans women might feel they need to fit society's definition of female because they want to prove to themselves they are "real women", or they feel a need to prove to cis folks that they are "real women", or feel a need to "prove" it to other trans women. So they feel they have to be super feminine, exactly what society expects, etc. It is horrid. I think it is more horrid for trans women than for the trans men. And when trans men try to go all super macho (in a way that isn't natural for them), it just makes me chuckle.

I have heard this more than once though. I not super masculine trans guy, or a not so super feminine trans woman, go to the extreme to fit in...eventually they say fuck it! and just become themselves.

What has it been like for you? Seeing that you identify as "tomboy", I assume that means you aren't super girly. Has that been rough? When you first transitioned, did you feel like you had to start out super girly? Were you worried that the UK wouldn't pay for your surgery if you didn't fit the narrative?




I have a question, Dapper.

Did anyone else watch Transformers and wish they would turn into counterparts? Seriously. I used to wish it and everything. I pulled a turkey bone once on it.

:blink:

I never watched the Transformers. I was too old by the time they came out.
They were cars that changed into robots/super heros/monsters, right? So they were what and you wanted them to turn into what? And the what was then you?

And you pulled a turkey bone on it? That is serious desire dude, you're right.

I've had the same wish at every b-day cake, shooting star, time the clock say 11:11, since I was 16. So, like yeah, I win like everything.

[DapperButch]

Hey Dapper!
Thanks for your thoughts.
As far as my other questions, I am talking about a Trans man dating any female. (straight or gay) I have had this conversation with trans men and several felt that it was their right to not disclose transitioning. So, in essence their date is blind to the whole story... what if it goes further???? what if they end up making out???? Is that fair? Or is the date an ass because when they get to that point of making out, she is not ok with either the fact he is trans or the fact that he wasn't honest???

Hope that cleared it up :)

This is what I thought you were asking. I will clarify it here... you are asking us trans people if we think that trans men who are socially transitioned and live as men (who are assumed to be cis male), should "come OUT" to their potential dating partners?

That is a very sticky difficult discussion to have. Some trans people are extremely passionate about it, on either side of the debate.

The thinking is that if we tell people that if they are trans they should tell a potential date, we are saying that we don't see them as to who they really are. They are not saying they are men. The thought is well, do we expect men with erectile dysfunction to say that going in? Do you expect someone who had an accident and don't have a "normal penis" to share that prior to the first date? No, we don't. So, why should we expect ourselves to do that?

Me, I tend to say it is up to the trans person. I also haven't been in the situation where I wanted to date someone who didn't already know I was trans. For me, personally, if I did a personal ad I would put it in there. I don't want the hassle of dating someone only to learn that are only open to dating a man who has a natal penis.

Great question to discuss on this thread.

[Esme nha Maire]

Absolutely... I wore the dresses and makeup and tried to be a "WOMAN" but because of My CHA I just excepted that I have no gender genetically so now I am male identified and happy as I am..

Um, by 'correct' I meant the gender one identifies as, DaddyChrisCo - so in my case female. I dived happily into skirt-suited office worker/disco-dolly for an evening out. Over time I've drifted toward jeans-and tank-tops being my normal attire, only occasionally do I wear skirts now.

[Esme nha Maire]

What has it been like for you? Seeing that you identify as "tomboy", I assume that means you aren't super girly. Has that been rough? When you first transitioned, did you feel like you had to start out super girly? Were you worried that the UK wouldn't pay for your surgery if you didn't fit the narrative.

Heh. Whilst even back then I was aware that the societal expectation for womens apeparance was a tad more femme than I felt internally, it didn't feel too far off, and I was entirely happy to do the skirt-suit/disco dolly thing. And back then, I associated tomboyism more with childhood and a certain kind of practical-mindedness in adult women. And yes - absolutely I loved that the world finally saw me as one of the girls, which is what I should've been from the start. I know that some going through the system at the time had such worries, and definitely did present as conventional femme in order to obtain surgery, but I was quite happy presenting so, it was what I wanted to be like, back then. It didn't occurr to me back then that that mightve been due to external pressure rather than innate.

This last couple of years have been quite odd for me as well as very happy ones. I'd been wearing my Steampunk plain Edwardian-style skirt-suits at work for a few years, and not unhappy about that specifically (I didnt have anything else I could sensibly wear, and I'm quite pragmatic. Wouldve loved more variety in my wardrobe - I love clothes, but - finances :-( )), but I knew I was in a rut and creeping back into my shell socially - and headed to a bad place mentally if I didnt do something about it.

Roller derby entering my life was a huge game-changer. Not only socially being around a lot of strong minded women determined to do their thing and heck what anyone thought about it (and utterly accepting of me), but the weight I lost in my efforts to get fitter meant my skirt-suits now fell off me. Jeans and cheap tank tops were the quick solution.

Woah. BIG sudden change, and at first it felt uncomfortable, and I did worry a tad that I might be 'read' more often as being MTF in jeans and T-shirt, but after a while it became the new normal, the world didn't end, straight men still annoyingly make passes at me, and I realised that I was feeling pretty comfortable with this image, actually, it better reflected my personality - femme, but with a practical edge, and not always too worried about the niceties or things being just so. It also fit well with my being part of several 'alternative' social scenes (Goth, Steampunk, roller derby), somehow.

Nowadays I feel more one of the laddish girls that can do classic femme when she wants to - and does, but not often, and am quite happy thus. I was startled my first couple of times on the lesbian scene when both times someone presumed I was butch. No idea why, I didnt get chance to ask, but I suspect it was because I wasnt in skirts and court shoes, and then there's my sheer size - I'm a big lass. I mentioned this to my boss the other week and she laughed and said 'you're definitely not butch, you're too feminine!' and friends have concurred. Awkward, me... :-}

[Gemme]

I never watched the Transformers. I was too old by the time they came out.
They were cars that changed into robots/super heros/monsters, right? So they were what and you wanted them to turn into what? And the what was then you?

And you pulled a turkey bone on it? That is serious desire dude, you're right.

I've had the same wish at every b-day cake, shooting star, time the clock say 11:11, since I was 16. So, like yeah, I win like everything.


You're never too old for animation. Let's just clear that up right away.

:police:

They are (since the movie series is still alive) robots that turn into vehicles of some sort. I wanted them to turn into roboty people. Now that I've progressed a bit in my life, I realize I wanted them to be butch or trans. Actually, trans is perfect, since they did, in fact, transform/transition. It's part of their name and their theme song. :cheesy:

nLS2N9mHWaw

To be fair, I also broke a wishbone on getting my own unicorn, so there's that.

:blink:

[DapperButch]

Thank you for writing all of this. I appreciate you sharing your history.

As I said before, I am glad that you are here. I would love to have the opportunity to discuss living in the world as a trans person, with other trans people, on this site.

Do you find that trans women are supported in most lesbian specific spaces in your area (both your area specifically, and the UK, in general)? I don't know if you can say this based on your own experience, but I am curious. I would say that in general, trans women are less accepted in all female, lesbian defined spaces in the U.S., than not. It was much worse many years ago, and I like to think that it is getting better, but that might only be happening in the larger cities. All of the trans women I work with who go to lesbian specific spaces say they have not found acceptance. I am in a more liberal state, as well. 98% of my state voted for Clinton.

Knowing you transitioned many years ago, and in the UK is super interesting to me. I have a number of trans guy friends in the UK online, who I met through a UK bottom surgery FB group. I find the UK system of transition interesting as it is so different from ours. Of course, you all have had support (your country pays for your transitions), for eons.



Heh. Whilst even back then I was aware that the societal expectation for womens apeparance was a tad more femme than I felt internally, it didn't feel too far off, and I was entirely happy to do the skirt-suit/disco dolly thing. And back then, I associated tomboyism more with childhood and a certain kind of practical-mindedness in adult women. And yes - absolutely I loved that the world finally saw me as one of the girls, which is what I should've been from the start. I know that some going through the system at the time had such worries, and definitely did present as conventional femme in order to obtain surgery, but I was quite happy presenting so, it was what I wanted to be like, back then. It didn't occurr to me back then that that mightve been due to external pressure rather than innate.

This last couple of years have been quite odd for me as well as very happy ones. I'd been wearing my Steampunk plain Edwardian-style skirt-suits at work for a few years, and not unhappy about that specifically (I didnt have anything else I could sensibly wear, and I'm quite pragmatic. Wouldve loved more variety in my wardrobe - I love clothes, but - finances :-( )), but I knew I was in a rut and creeping back into my shell socially - and headed to a bad place mentally if I didnt do something about it.

Roller derby entering my life was a huge game-changer. Not only socially being around a lot of strong minded women determined to do their thing and heck what anyone thought about it (and utterly accepting of me), but the weight I lost in my efforts to get fitter meant my skirt-suits now fell off me. Jeans and cheap tank tops were the quick solution.

Woah. BIG sudden change, and at first it felt uncomfortable, and I did worry a tad that I might be 'read' more often as being MTF in jeans and T-shirt, but after a while it became the new normal, the world didn't end, straight men still annoyingly make passes at me, and I realised that I was feeling pretty comfortable with this image, actually, it better reflected my personality - femme, but with a practical edge, and not always too worried about the niceties or things being just so. It also fit well with my being part of several 'alternative' social scenes (Goth, Steampunk, roller derby), somehow.

Nowadays I feel more one of the laddish girls that can do classic femme when she wants to - and does, but not often, and am quite happy thus. I was startled my first couple of times on the lesbian scene when both times someone presumed I was butch. No idea why, I didnt get chance to ask, but I suspect it was because I wasnt in skirts and court shoes, and then there's my sheer size - I'm a big lass. I mentioned this to my boss the other week and she laughed and said 'you're definitely not butch, you're too feminine!' and friends have concurred. Awkward, me... :-}

[Vivacious1]

Hey Dapper,

I agree this is s sticky subject. From the folks I have spoken to about it, well, let's just say it can be a passionate response on either side. Your response made me think and I will take some time to think on it before I comment any further. (as far as others revealing things about themselves) thanks for your point of view :)

[Esme nha Maire]

Thank you for writing all of this. I appreciate you sharing your history.

As I said before, I am glad that you are here. I would love to have the opportunity to discuss living in the world as a trans person, with other trans people, on this site.

Do you find that trans women are supported in most lesbian specific spaces in your area (both your area specifically, and the UK, in general)? I don't know if you can say this based on your own experience, but I am curious. .

I'm happy to discuss that, Dapper, either here or elsewhere if it needs a different thread.

As for trans women being supported in lesbian-specific places in the UK, first a caveat - I am not on social media, I'm a refusenik. There almost certainly will be stuff 'out there' that I am not aware of. One of the things I've just been venting about is the fact that here I am in the UK's second largest city, and there is one lesbian-focused bar (and it's tiny) and two places where lesbians are often found, so far as I'm aware of at this point. And there are NO women-only nights in any of them. I'm guessing that locally women connect online first so there's less of the going to somehwere to find a date thing going on.

The twice I have been on the scene that ther'es actually been wall-to-wall women in our lesbian-centric bar, I felt no edge from anybody at all. I would say utter general social acceptance. Of course, that's not the same as saying that they'd all be happy to bed me, but then, I wouldn't have wanted to bed all of them, either. We all have our preferences :-}

At LFest - which has a firm no discrimination policy - much the same. Indeed, although I fluffed the situations through dithering due to introversion and nervousness, I did get some positive interest from a couple of lasses, which was a bit of a surprise to me. Being effectively a babydyke, introvert and recovering from years of self-policing due to fear of rejection as female, I told myself beforehand to not get my hopes up, and be realistic with my expectations. Seems my expectations were too low!

Contrast this with nearly thirty years back in my much smaller original hometown, and the utter rejection I got by the local lesbian support group. No-one was off with me at the local gay/lesbian disco when I attended, but the women barely interacted with me at all, although one did shamefacedly say 'we do think you're pretty though' as if that were a consolation prize. Well gee thanks, but having to deal with being lesbian on top of being MTF and telling me I'm pretty but cold-shouldering me.. yeah. Worst and most hurtful discrimination I've ever experienced. Heterosexual society actually proved to be way more accepting. That incident made me actually scared to go near the lesbian scene again for fear of similar rejection, hence my finally coming to the scene very late in life. I'm happy to say much has changed for the better!

I blame Janice Raymond 's nasty piece of supposedly feminist work for that, though. (I've had to self-censor there - I get a severe attack of the swearies every time I think of her infamous book on transfolk). Those women were in a tough situation at a tough time, and I was one more potential worry, I saw that even at the time. It was the fact that they wouldnt even negotiate some form of compromise that shocked me.

Nearly forgot - the women in the lesbian walking group I'm in - absolutely fine with me.

As for the rest of the UK - well, I've no experience there, and no information other than a few snippets I picked up from chatting at LFest whcih gave me the impression that it's much the same around the country. Sure, there'll be the odd bigot here and there, but in general we're accepted as part of the community, such as it is. Hmmn.. one caveat - it can depend on the individual. I've just recalled that one bunch I chatted with said they'd encountered a couple of transwomen that, from the descriptions of their behaviour given me, I suspect were either poorly socialised as women or just plain boorish in personality anyway. They were sent packing, eventually. I have noticed that some MTFs seem to think that their way of being a woman is THE way, and come on, we're all girls together, this is how to do it - and it sounds incredibly fake, and is in any case, rude, especially when you're the newcomer to a group.

[JDeere]

For the ftms...How do yall get into your binder. Do you step into it or over the head. My last binder had Velcro and wasn't very good but am getting a new one and am wondering the safest and best way to get into it.

[TL1]

For the ftms...How do yall get into your binder. Do you step into it or over the head. My last binder had Velcro and wasn't very good but am getting a new one and am wondering the safest and best way to get into it.

I don’t wear one regularly but the times I have it’s always been over the head. Can’t say I haven’t almost dislocated a shoulder a time or two lol (usually taking it off) but yeah.

[DapperButch]

For the ftms...How do yall get into your binder. Do you step into it or over the head. My last binder had Velcro and wasn't very good but am getting a new one and am wondering the safest and best way to get into it.

It is whatever works best for you. There really isn't a "safest" or best way. I haven't heard guys talk about stepping into them in years. I suspect that was the older brands. I never understood how that really worked though. I always did it over the head.

Did you end up ordering a gc2b? I had top surgery prior to these coming out, but I am pretty sure all guys just pull them over their heads.

The most important thing about binders is to get the correct size, based on your measurements. That is where "safety" comes into it.

I hope this binder works well for you.

[DapperButch]

I don’t wear one regularly but the times I have it’s always been over the head. Can’t say I haven’t almost dislocated a shoulder a time or two lol (usually taking it off) but yeah.

Gah, you just gave me a total flashback....I felt the pain I would feel when taking that thing off.

I can't believe I wore a binder, daily, for 15 (?) years.

[JDeere]

Thanks yall. I am ordering the binder soon. I took the measurements and spoke with a customer service person and we know the correct size for me. I hope it works for me too.

[Bard]

I just got my first real and good quality binder a few weeks ago kind of the surprised at I guess the difference it made in my confidence. sizing was the interesting part but now having a good quality and the right size well make a difference. ANd being able to ask about it you know with out feeling off or such

[DapperButch]

Thanks yall. I am ordering the binder soon. I took the measurements and spoke with a customer service person and we know the correct size for me. I hope it works for me too.

What brand and style did you get?

I just got my first real and good quality binder a few weeks ago kind of the surprised at I guess the difference it made in my confidence. sizing was the interesting part but now having a good quality and the right size well make a difference. ANd being able to ask about it you know with out feeling off or such

What brand and style did you get?

I wore the Underworks tri top for years.

[Bard]

What brand and style did you get?



What brand and style did you get?

I wore the Underworks tri top for years.

G2b in the short style kind of amazed at the fit and how it made me feel inside empowering. I did the underworks on first but not a good fit and I had issues with getting cyst that the doc thinks might be related. Really had I not been so idk shy about it I should have asked for advise in the first place

[JDeere]

What brand and style did you get?



What brand and style did you get?

I wore the Underworks tri top for years.

I am getting mine from the g2b website. Its the tank binder. Since im a big guy they recommended the tank instead of the half.

[JDeere]

I think ive seen some of yall post about thin hair or no, i dont really remember. I have think hair way up front on my hairline, some missing due to stress, do yall think that a pompadour would be a good cut or go with a fade type cut?

[DapperButch]

I think ive seen some of yall post about thin hair or no, i dont really remember. I have think hair way up front on my hairline, some missing due to stress, do yall think that a pompadour would be a good cut or go with a fade type cut?

There are so many things that go into the right hair style. The texture of your hair, the growth pattern, etc. The best thing to do is to go to a quality, higher end hair salon and ask their opinion. Let them do "their thing", and just deal with the cost. If you want a male cut, make sure you tell them that. Even if you are butch, if they know you are female, they will "soften", any style that you might suggest to them.

After that, take yourself to a cheaper place 3-4 weeks later and have the stylist "follow the line". Then keep going to that person.

Good luck.

[JDeere]

There are so many things that go into the right hair style. The texture of your hair, the growth pattern, etc. The best thing to do is to go to a quality, higher end hair salon and ask their opinion. Let them do "their thing", and just deal with the cost. If you want a male cut, make sure you tell them that. Even if you are butch, if they know you are female, they will "soften", any style that you might suggest to them.

After that, take yourself to a cheaper place 3-4 weeks later and have the stylist "follow the line". Then keep going to that person.

Good luck.

I went to a barber, skipped the whole salon deal. My new place for a haircut fyi. My barber happens to be a stud, which to my delight we talked about femmes the whole time. Anyways I ended up with a ruby rose type hair cut no softening of anything lol.

http://media4.popsugar-assets.com/files/thumbor/3Aw2PPW3dUaRaLK16nGBYOaLdbw/fit-in/550x550/filters:format_auto-!!-:strip_icc-!!-/2016/06/07/913/n/1922283/0af94678_edit_img_image_2387502_1465331942/i/Ruby-Rose-Orange-New-Black-Season-4.jpg

[DapperButch]

I went to a barber, skipped the whole salon deal. My new place for a haircut fyi. My barber happens to be a stud, which to my delight we talked about femmes the whole time. Anyways I ended up with a ruby rose type hair cut no softening of anything lol.

http://media4.popsugar-assets.com/files/thumbor/3Aw2PPW3dUaRaLK16nGBYOaLdbw/fit-in/550x550/filters:format_auto-!!-:strip_icc-!!-/2016/06/07/913/n/1922283/0af94678_edit_img_image_2387502_1465331942/i/Ruby-Rose-Orange-New-Black-Season-4.jpg

A place with a stud was a good idea. Female and males skulls are shaped differently. A female who desires to look masculine is a good choice for picking out a hairstyle for you that makes you look the most male (if that is what you are going for). Back in the day trans men would get a crew cut/something along those lines, as soon as they came out. All that does is highlight the skull which points to the person being female. There is enough information out there now that you don't see that much anymore.

[Bard]

I have found a good Barber and the cut I think is much better before my daughter was fussing at me that my fade had not been done right now she and I are both happy and I do not have to worry about the the being softened thing

[JDeere]

A place with a stud was a good idea. Female and males skulls are shaped differently. A female who desires to look masculine is a good choice for picking out a hairstyle for you that makes you look the most male (if that is what you are going for). Back in the day trans men would get a crew cut/something along those lines, as soon as they came out. All that does is highlight the skull which points to the person being female. There is enough information out there now that you don't see that much anymore.

I think it was a good choice too.

[Esme nha Maire]

Hi all!

I hope some of you gents won't mind indulging my curiosity on this, but the impression I have up to this point is that, in general (and understanding that there is nevertheless wide variation in folk going in both directions) MTFs seem to feel surer of their gender identity earlier than FTMs. So I'm wondering if that is the case - do many of you just know you were actually male from an early age, or is it more often a dawning realisation a little later in life?.

NB: I'm not on about making decisions re surgery - I well understand why one might be hesitant about signing up for FTM surgery - I'm asking only about when one becomes sure of ones gender identity. I ask not merely out of curiosity, but also because in the last couple of months I've become aware of two FTMs in my extended social circle, both of them surprisingly (to me) old. Could be coincidence, but I'm hoping they're acting on innate feelings rather than external pressures, but if innate, I'm surprised they didn't act earlier.

[DapperButch]

Hi all!

I hope some of you gents won't mind indulging my curiosity on this, but the impression I have up to this point is that, in general (and understanding that there is nevertheless wide variation in folk going in both directions) MTFs seem to feel surer of their gender identity earlier than MTFs. So I'm wondering if that is the case - do many of you just know you were actually male from an early age, or is it more often a dawning realisation a little later in life?.

NB: I'm not on about making decisions re surgery - I well understand why one might be hesitant about signing up for FTM surgery - I'm asking only about when one becomes sure of ones gender identity. I ask not merely out of curiosity, but also because in the last couple of months I've become aware of two FTMs in my extended social circle, both of them surprisingly (to me) old. Could be coincidence, but I'm hoping they're acting on innate feelings rather than external pressures, but if innate, I'm surprised they didn't act earlier.

Hey there! Great question! Did you meant to say MTF earlier than FTM or the opposite? You said MTF twice.

[Esme nha Maire]

Thanks, Dapper - I'm still a bit floaty on painkillers and didnt notice. I meant wondering if MTFs tend to be sure of their gender earlier than FTMs. I;ve now edited my post to correct this.

[DapperButch]

Thanks, Dapper - I'm still a bit floaty on painkillers and didnt notice. I meant wondering if MTFs tend to be sure of their gender earlier than FTMs. I;ve now edited my post to correct this.

That is what I thought you meant.

Interesting question!

Based on my reading of trans people, historically MTFs were aware of their gender identity earlier than FTMs.

As a gender therapist, I have seen this to be the case, as well. I believe that the reason for this is because FTMs have another identity to describe some of the conflicting feelings...tomboy. There is a word, and identity that they can "kind of" fit into. MTFs only have gay and female.

It tends to be puberty when the boys (FTMs) put it all together. The changes in their body triggers the realization that they are not female. Some even talk about thinking that puberty would "never happen to them because they were a tomboy/other word that is similar".

90% of my adolescents are FTMs. However, I don't think that this points to there being more trans boys than trans girls. I believe it is because the girls are getting therapy earlier. Since I only see kids 14 and up, and the girls are coming out earlier, I wouldn't see them. I can tell you that when I go to trans health conferences, the parent/child section has more than double the little girls (MTF) running around than the little boys (FTMs).

What I do see is that the FTM adolescents do transition earlier than the MTFs. Parents are much more nervous about their trans girls coming out. I see them wanting the girls to hold out until college. Sometimes they will put them on hormones, but they insist that they wait until college to socially transition. College is much "safer". My main goal with the parents of trans girls is to at least put them on testosterone blockers. That I can usually get parents to do because they hear me when I say that their children will have a much harder go of it the more their face masculinizes. Boys I am usually more hesitant about going on testosterone because of the voice change that can't be reversed. I would say that I am much more conservative than the typical gender therapist when it comes to boys getting on to testosterone. Nowadays the parents are ahead of me. Some come in the door almost ready for their trans boys to get on testosterone. This is all because they come in super educated. It is not like it used to be only a few years ago. I don't like Caitlyn Jenner, but she sure did help the trans community when it comes to "coming OUT".

------------------

For myself, I think that finding "butch" as gender is what held me up. I kept telling myself that I wasn't a woman (that my only gender was Butch), but that I was ok with being female (my sex). Female masculinity is somewhat accepted in our culture, so I could essentially live as a "man" (hair, clothing), so it "held me together". I didn't realize how free I would feel after I came OUT and got on testosterone. I didn't realize how much anxiety (social and general), was the reason for my irritability and angst (which unfortunately impacted others), was due to not having the "right hormone" in my body. I am so much more calm and emotionally level now. It really is freaky. I never knew if my clients emotionally leveled out due to hormones or due to anticipation of their body changing. Getting on hormones myself gave me the answer to that question (it is the hormone).

I started out with a small dose because I wanted to make sure it was the right decision. Pretty quickly a thought came to me..."I need the medication in my system...if the outcome of that is that I am masculinize to the point of looking male, then that is what the outcome is". That is how necessary this hormone is to my mental health. (Unfortunately, for the first 6 months I had to jump around to different dosages (long story), so my emotional state was not balanced at all).

Now, of course I am very happy with my changes, and very happy being male, but I think the above points to the power of hormones. And I don't know what evidence could make it more clear that this is a medical condition. Like many who are diabetic need insulin to have a balanced, healthy body and mental state, many trans people need cross sex hormones.

The end. lol

ETA: I started transitioning in my mid- 40's. Based on the several "over 40" trans men FB groups I am on, most of these men came out late in life, as well (mid 40's, early 50's). A very large percentage of them identified as butch lesbians prior to coming out as trans. I still identify with butch as part of my gender identity.

[Esme nha Maire]

Thank you, Dapper. See, what puzzles me is that whilst I know it's certainly not the case for all MTF's to know, from a very early age, as I did, that they are female (I was somewhere in the range 4 to 5 - essentially, I can't recall ever having any sense of gender identity other than female), I get the impression that it's rarer for FTM's to have such strong gender dysphoria at such an early age, and if that is indeed the case, I cannot help but wonder why.

One would imagine that if it didn't take puberty for me to realise that something was horribly wrong (and at that age, I had no concept of sexuality, let alone homosexuality) that the same would hold true for FTMs. I take your point re the tomboy identity (funnily enough, that was kind of how I thought of myself, once I knew that word!) possibly seeming a 'nearest fit' , but as my gender dysphoria was a very strongly physical thing, the social stuff was very much secondary to me, I'm surprised if it isn't so in others, I guess.

[DapperButch]

Thank you, Dapper. See, what puzzles me is that whilst I know it's certainly not the case for all MTF's to know, from a very early age, as I did, that they are female (I was somewhere in the range 4 to 5 - essentially, I can't recall ever having any sense of gender identity other than female), I get the impression that it's rarer for FTM's to have such strong gender dysphoria at such an early age, and if that is indeed the case, I cannot help but wonder why.

One would imagine that if it didn't take puberty for me to realise that something was horribly wrong (and at that age, I had no concept of sexuality, let alone homosexuality) that the same would hold true for FTMs. I take your point re the tomboy identity (funnily enough, that was kind of how I thought of myself, once I knew that word!) possibly seeming a 'nearest fit' , but as my gender dysphoria was a very strongly physical thing, the social stuff was very much secondary to me, I'm surprised if it isn't so in others, I guess.

I appreciate your return post.

Something that popped into my head as a possibility......

Pre puberty trans girls are looking at something between there legs that don't want there, something that doesn't belong there. They see it, they feel it. There is awareness of it every day. Every time you go to the bathroom, etc.

I think having something you don't want, something you can see and feel that is causing you dysphoria is more powerful than something NOT being there is causing dysphoria.

In puberty, trans boys get breasts. Like the trans girl wants the penis off, the trans boys wants those breasts OFF, like TODAY! Something that we don't want there is more powerful than something we feel is missing.

We hear about trans girls wanting to cut off their penis. It is when trans boys are in puberty that you hear about them wanting to cut of their breasts.

Too, it isn't that uncommon for trans guys to NOT want bottom surgery. And this isn't just about thinking that the bottom surgeries available to men are not good enough (which is a real thing). It is that they just don't have dysphoria (or much dysphoria), in that area. Or they want just minimal surgical reconstruction to ease dysphoria that does no include the creation of a penis, or the closing of the vagina.

However, I never heard a trans guy say he didn't want top surgery (unless they had super small chests...and even then there is only 1-2 times that I have heard/read that).

It's very interesting.

[Esme nha Maire]

- removed in edit. I was being slow-of-thinking. Thank you Dapper, I believe you've answered my question. Hmmnn! Thank you for the insight!

[DapperButch]

- removed in edit. I was being slow-of-thinking. Thank you Dapper, I believe you've answered my question. Hmmnn! Thank you for the insight!

So, I get nuthin'? :(

How about others sharing about themselves...or about your experiences with others/your thinking on the differences as to when FTM/MTF, realize they are trans?

Theo? Liam? Anyone else?

A very interesting topic!

[Esme nha Maire]

So, I get nuthin'? :(

How about others sharing about themselves...or about your experiences with others/your thinking on the differences as to when FTM/MTF, realize they are trans?

Theo? Liam? Anyone else?

A very interesting topic!

Aww, sorry Dapper, but I truly was being slow of thinking, and didnt realise until I'd mulled over your reponses a little longer. I am as disappointed as yourself over the lack of responses, as yet, from other FTMs. I can say that you are certainly correct re MTFs in at least my case - very much a case of "well, THAT shouldn't be there!". Never did understand one reference to "mourning" ones lost body parts post-op that I encountered via the support group I was in back then, unless it were an indication that they really should not have transitioned.

The other thing that struck me is that in your response you were talking about youngsters , and their aid being sought by their parents. This, to me, is a marvellous difference from the situation thirty-odd years ago over here, that there is a desire to seek help for the children affected rather than just a barrage of social disapproval, and a lack of belief that a child could truly know their own mind in such matters.

[DapperButch]

Aww, sorry Dapper, but I truly was being slow of thinking, and didnt realise until I'd mulled over your reponses a little longer. I am as disappointed as yourself over the lack of responses, as yet, from other FTMs. I can say that you are certainly correct re MTFs in at least my case - very much a case of "well, THAT shouldn't be there!". Never did understand one reference to "mourning" ones lost body parts post-op that I encountered via the support group I was in back then, unless it were an indication that they really should not have transitioned.

The other thing that struck me is that in your response you were talking about youngsters , and their aid being sought by their parents. This, to me, is a marvellous difference from the situation thirty-odd years ago over here, that there is a desire to seek help for the children affected rather than just a barrage of social disapproval, and a lack of belief that a child could truly know their own mind in such matters.

In terms of parents it is very different now. All the parents that have brought their kids to me were people who parents who cared about their kids because they wouldn't have brought them otherwise. But, their openness to allowing their kids to medically transition was very different. There is enough information out there that parents understand that gender dysphoria is a medical transition that CAN be treated. They see the massive shift in their kids from one day to the next when they say they are at least open to talk with an endocrinologist about hormones. THAT is what sells them. The hardest "sell" is for the very wealthy families who worry about what their social circles will say. This is where I see the parents saying their children can't socially transition until their first year of college (they don't want them to come out in high school).

Has there been any shifts in the UK over the past few years? Until now, the UK has always been more accepting of their trans folks in comparison to the U.S.

[Esme nha Maire]

In terms of parents it is very different now. All the parents that have brought their kids to me were people who parents who cared about their kids because they wouldn't have brought them otherwise. But, their openness to allowing their kids to medically transition was very different. There is enough information out there that parents understand that gender dysphoria is a medical transition that CAN be treated. They see the massive shift in their kids from one day to the next when they say they are at least open to talk with an endocrinologist about hormones. THAT is what sells them. The hardest "sell" is for the very wealthy families who worry about what their social circles will say. This is where I see the parents saying their children can't socially transition until their first year of college (they don't want them to come out in high school).

Has there been any shifts in the UK over the past few years? Until now, the UK has always been more accepting of their trans folks in comparison to the U.S.

I'm afraid I've no idea, Dapper. Once I'd had surgery, I was simply focused on trying to get a job and try to keep my relationship going. The next several years were still nightmarish due to a bad employer that tried to force folk to work in unhealthy working conditions (distrbingly, it was the local City Council!). I didn't need support from trans support groups, wasn't getting any aftercare from the medical profession, and all my energies were just on the daily grind.

Once I'd escaped that job, about twelve years ago, I did notice that I didn't seem to be getting any overt disapproval at all from work colleagues, but I was still getting abuse from random strangers travelling to and from work. This slowly died down, and died altogether, oddly enough, when my image shifted from Steampunky femme to tomboyish two years ago. It may just be that the last of the yobbish comments I was getting was more to do with my being a tad eccentric rather than my being TS. Or else my eccentricity was drawing closer attention to my appearance than I might otherwise have got.

It was only at the beginning of this year that I looked into how things are with transfolk and the LGBT community again, and that only by going to the local lesbian friendly bar and looking at stuff online (mostly YouTube). All I can say is that I'm not personally encountering any problems in straight society, and have encountered next to none thus far in the lesbian scene - indeed, at LFestive, one individual even asked me how I identified,and on hearing I said simply 'lesbian' said 'good, I'm glad to hear you don't identify as trans anything, there's no need, you're a woman, and that's an end to it'.

So - the situation seems to be good now, but how and when and why it changed, I have no idea - I was simply in my own little bubble struggling to get through each day for so long!

[carrotbottom]

kind of basic I know, but I'm pretty new to all this stuff :P

how good does it feel for you and any other details you can provide on how to maximize your pleasure while using them. do you even use them? I feel like butt plugs (http://blissfulcherry.com/sex-toy-guides/butt-plugs/) would be more pleasurable for you guys idk :)

also I'm so sorry if this is comes off as offensive :/

[DapperButch]

kind of basic I know, but I'm pretty new to all this stuff :P

how good does it feel for you and any other details you can provide on how to maximize your pleasure while using them. do you even use them? I feel like butt plugs (http://blissfulcherry.com/sex-toy-guides/butt-plugs/) would be more pleasurable for you guys idk :)

also I'm so sorry if this is comes off as offensive :/

Hi, carrotbottom.

I am not sure why you would post this question in the trans section.

If you have an interest in discussing sex toys you might want to start a thread in the SEX, BDSM, KINK forum.

http://www.butchfemmeplanet.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=27

[JDeere]

Have any of yall ever heard of a transman Mark Angelo Cummings?

[Esme nha Maire]

No, but evidently you have and think they are notable. What about them, JDeere? Bear in mind that the object of this thread is for folk to ask transfolk questions about stuff regarding transfolk that they don't know or arent sure about (eg: what sort of effects does HRT therapy have on your emotions? Can anything be done to make a masculine-type voice sound more feminine or vice-versa?).