Ask a trans person!

[Linus]

Rather than make it specific to FTMs or MTFs, figured one thread should suffice. So, all those embarrassing questions you wanted to ask but figured or knew were kinda impolite, ask here. No guarantees you'll get an answer but you can ask. :)

[Arwen]

Thanks for starting this one, Linus. I think it's hugely important that we all find safe areas to discuss the hard questions. And for some, this is a really hard question.

[Leigh]

I personally also want to thank you for starting this thread Linus. I have been going through alot lately when it comes to questioning My gender, and after going to an FTM group meeting at the local GLBT community center this past Tuesday I feel that I am more sure about alot of things than I was before. I sat among eight FTM's and listened to their struggles, their coming out stories, how they feel now and felt before about their change and even though most of them were on T and have been for awhile I felt Myself nodding and identifying with each of them.

I guess I have a few questions that I will start out with, since I know that we have all started somewhere. I'll begin with just a few basic ones:

1) When did you begin feeling like you were different?

2) Did you always know that you should have been born the opposite sex, or did that come abit later though you always knew you were different?

3) When did you decide to come out, and how did you come out?


I am out as trans (FTM) to certain people that I know online as well as those at the FTM group I attended but not to anyone else. A big part of Me wants to come out to family and friends so I can finally outright be who I am on the inside, but there is still that part of Me that is scared to do so. I am really looking to just connect with other FTM's (as well as MTF's) and relate to those who have gone through the journey, or perhaps those like Me really just beginning it, so that I can know that I'm not alone.

[Linus]

I guess I have a few questions that I will start out with, since I know that we have all started somewhere. I'll begin with just a few basic ones:

1) When did you begin feeling like you were different?

2) Did you always know that you should have been born the opposite sex, or did that come abit later though you always knew you were different?

3) When did you decide to come out, and how did you come out?


I am out as trans (FTM) to certain people that I know online as well as those at the FTM group I attended but not to anyone else. A big part of Me wants to come out to family and friends so I can finally outright be who I am on the inside, but there is still that part of Me that is scared to do so. I am really looking to just connect with other FTM's (as well as MTF's) and relate to those who have gone through the journey, or perhaps those like Me really just beginning it, so that I can know that I'm not alone.

1. I've always felt different but didn't have the language to describe it. When I was finally introduced to the concept of an FTM and what it entailed I began to wonder if that was my path. The more I investigated and heard the histories of other FTMs that seemed to flow along the same lines as mine, the more I thought that perhaps this was the path.

2. I suppose I knew but never admitted it to myself. It was something I hid deep down and was shameful of for many, many years.

3. I came out at age 37 and I used a well crafted email to friends. A year later I did the same to my work colleagues (I rarely see them other than a major gathering). Since I'm in IT, far from family and we use email as our main method of communication it worked and made sense as the method of communication.

I can't comment specifically for you but I know for me there was a point where living two lives didn't work any more for me. And I had to be one person finally, the person that my ID/Ego had been seeing itself as for a long time.

HTH

[Andrew, Jr.]

Did anyone catch the interview with Diane Sawyer (I think it was her)? I loved what he said this was the first time he was living in his body for the first time. And he received shaving products for his 40th birthday. Now that would definitely put a huge smile on my face.

Braedon:

1. I always knew I was a boy. In fact, I used to get on my knees and pray to God to change me when I went to bed. I thought I would wake up with a penis and testicles. When that didn't happen, I took my older brothers jock strap and filled it up with my jock socks. I used safety pins to hold it up.

2. I was called by my male nickname since I was in elementary school. It was the only thing that could link my mind, body, and soul together at this point in time. I would always play with "male" toys like cars, trucks, guns, etc. I never was interested in Barbie, or girlie things. And clothes, I always wore masculine clothes, and when I was buying my own clothes they all came from the men's dept.

When puberty hit, it was nothing short of hell. I felt like I had a piano on my chest. Then the next blow wouldn't come until I had top surgery, which was botched.

3. I came out as gay first, then trans. It was a matter of time. Feeling things out for myself. As time went on, I knew I had to do what I always wanted too. Maybe selfish of me, but we only have one life to live. So, I say live and let live.

Alot of folks may not like me because I don't take "t", but then again, they don't have my body or my health. I don't feel like I have to explain my medical history online to explain my body. It is what it is. I have paid cold hard cash for the surgeries I have had so far.

Andrew

[Jet]

Braedon proposes some great questions.

I felt different starting at the age of four.
I have never felt like a woman and I lived a double for about 35 years.
Misery.
I realize the community I'm in, but truth be told, I cannot make love or share headspace with other women as a woman. My attraction has to include that counterbalance of male to female energy. That's why I don't get being a lesbian, and I don't care for the word pertaining to me at all because that's not what I am.

Recently, I came out as a trans to one of my family members who didn't bat an eye.

I will commence with T in January provided there are no more hitches and there have been many. But transitioned or not I will always ID as male because of the person and how I'm wired within.

[Greyson]

Braedon proposes some great questions.

I felt different starting at the age of four.
I have never felt like a woman and I lived a double for about 35 years.
Misery.
I realize the community I'm in, but truth be told, I cannot make love or share headspace with other women as a woman. My attraction has to include that counterbalance of male to female energy. That's why I don't get being a lesbian, and I don't care for the word pertaining to me at all because that's not what I am.

Recently, I came out as a trans to one of my family members who didn't bat an eye.

I will commence with T in January provided there are no more hitches and there have been many. But transitioned or not I will always ID as male because of the person and how I'm wired within.

Jet, good to see you guy. Congrats on making your decision to move forward. I started to take T 18 months ago at the ripe old age of just past 50. If you ever want to talk about it, hit me with a pm.

P.S. This is my maiden post on this site. I guess you could say I just gave you my innocence? :eek:

[Jet]

Hey Greyson good to see you here. I'm interested in all kinds of input. I found my doctor and a therapist....well, the therapist..I'm trying to nail down btween a few of them because of location, insurance issues and so forth.

But I'd welcome input on the actual transition process from someone who is not clinical, but experiential. The other thing is i'm looking into support groups here in Atlanta.

[Paphigleo]

1) When did you begin feeling like you were different?

2) Did you always know that you should have been born the opposite sex, or did that come abit later though you always knew you were different?

3) When did you decide to come out, and how did you come out?



1. I have always always always felt different, and like many simply lacked the language. I too had prayed as a child to become the boy I know I am. Of course to no avail.

2. Yes. I remember being confused because I didnt understand the girls, and always hanging out with the boys. In my 20's I began to learn about trans stuff and I've slowly begun to grasp at the language to explain myself.

3. The only people who know me as trans are in my comfort zone. I can out queer to friends at 15, family at 18 and 20. I am hesitant to come out to family as trans even though I am fairly sure they will be fine with it. I'm pretty anti-emotion and I hate the idea that I *may* make my mother cry. I hope not, but still.

Linus.. thanks for the thread!

[Jaques]

]

Its always interesting to hear others experiences...........good thread


1) When did you begin feeling like you were different?.........

I didnt know i was different till as a kid people kept telling me i wasnt a boy...........

2) Did you always know that you should have been born the opposite sex, or did that come abit later though you always knew you were different?

.................never thought about it but felt i was male from very young, buried it, married, came out later in life, went through the stages of thinking im butch etc till the penny dropped..............

3) When did you decide to come out, and how did you come out?

l998 I began my "journey" and 4 yrs ago decided I had to carry on living as male, so with my partners encouragement, for which i will be eternally grateful, I saw a gender specialist and after telling him my background was immediately put onto T, l0 mths later I had my chest op.

I am out as trans (FTM) to certain people that I know online as well as those at the FTM group I attended but not to anyone else. A big part of Me wants to come out to family and friends so I can finally outright be who I am on the inside, but there is still that part of Me that is scared to do so. I am really looking to just connect with other FTM's (as well as MTF's) and relate to those who have gone through the journey, or perhaps those like Me really just beginning it, so that I can know that I'm not alone.

,,,,,,its never easy, i have two grown sons, one who accepts and the other who loves me, we have always been close, but finds it hard to see his "mother" change direction, as before i did look very feminine (purposely) so i respect his feelings and as i see him and his wife/grandchild once every 6 wks or so because they live quite a long way away, i shave closely.....

We all have things to deal with in life and i am lucky this is the only thing i have to think carefully about - I know there are many who have huge problems and that's why these threads are so useful.............

[Bit]

{{{{{{{{{{{{{Linus, Braedon, Andrew, Parker, Greyson, Nick, Jaques}}}}}}}}}}}}}

Nice to see you all here! *smiling* It's good that we have the beginnings of a support thread already, a place for comparing notes and such!



{{{{{{{{{{{Arwen}}}}}}}}}}} Nice to see you here too, love--didn't want you to think I was ignoring you!

[Blue]

Hi everyone,

I always knew I was different but, like Linus, never had the words. My journey has been gradual (to say the least). Though I will say, in hindsight, I gave every indication of gender dysphoria from a very early age. It was my mother who finally asked me if I wouldn't have been happier if I could have 'become male'. I can remember always wanting to do 'boy things' and wanting to wear 'boy clothes' and wanting 'guy jobs' but my family always seemed to pass it of as 'tomboy syndrome' that would one day pass. It never did. I loved Halloween and was always male; complete with stubble and a bulge. I went through periods of hyper-feminity trying to immerse myself in the feminine thinking I might find something of myself there. Although I made a very pretty girl/woman, I always felt like a drag queen (or worse, like a very queer queer). Over time my wardrobe had less and less female clothing until I only shopped in the men's department. My hair got shorter and shorter until only a barber would do. For younger people this all may sound absurd but being a young person in the 70s ...simple changes like these took tremendous courage (fear coupled with action). Each step was a personal achievement for me.

I started T 3 years ago and felt more 'in focus' within a few weeks. I am very happy with the physical changes I have experienced; i.e. weight redistribution, weight loss, increased strength and endurance, muscle density, and a general sense of emotion centeredness. On the flip side I am finding myself almost too focused and unable to walk away from something I am doing until it is done. It seems to be the opposite of ADD and makes multitasking sort of difficult unless I am able to synchronize the tasks into a logical flow. I used to start things and never got around to finishing them, switching proirities and scuffling from one task to another and would become emotionally overwhelmed ...now everything has to wait it's turn but I do finish everything eventually :) Anyone else having this experience?

Blue

[Thinker]

*snip*

For younger people this all may sound absurd but being a young person in the 70s ...simple changes like these took tremendous courage (fear coupled with action). Each step was a personal achievement for me.

*snip*

...now everything has to wait it's turn but I do finish everything eventually :) Anyone else having this experience?



Such a good point about how it used to be... Like you, I went through a period of time where I tried really hard to embrace being female and a "lesbian". Although I would not say I did it in a hyper-feminine way, I definitely made it a point to try and *not* "hide" my breasts........wore earrings.......stuff like that.

As for the other... I actually have had the opposite experience. I am more inclined to have a few things going on at the same time......spend a little time on refurbishing a dresser.......then work on the yard a little.......starting new little projects here and there.

That was not the case before. Not even close.

Interesting to think about.

[Thinker]

My responses are in dark red.



I guess I have a few questions that I will start out with, since I know that we have all started somewhere. I'll begin with just a few basic ones:

1) When did you begin feeling like you were different?

I've always felt I was different. My oldest sister tells of times as a *baby* when I resisted being put in dresses. As a toddler and kid, I recall loving the attention of women; I remember being in 2nd grade and absolutely hating the fact that the teacher responded to me and Dwayne in two very different ways........and it was obvious we both had a crush on her. ;)

2) Did you always know that you should have been born the opposite sex, or did that come abit later though you always knew you were different?

What I do know is that I always *wished* I had been born the opposite sex. I don't recall thinking I should have been; I don't think my mind worked that way. I just know that my nightly prayers very often consisted of..."Please let me wake up and be a boy, and let it be that I have always been one so no one will notice."

3) When did you decide to come out, and how did you come out?

The decision to move forward took place just about 2-2.5 years ago. It was very gradual for me prior to that.......thinking about it, writing about it, wondering about it, talking myself out of it, talking to others about what it would look like, etc...

I guess the *official* coming out moment would have been when I told my therapist......"Hey, I'm gonna do this, and I might need some help from you along the way."

[Jet]

Being a trauma survivor I lived 11 years in seclusion and tried to be a girl. It didn't work for me at all. Eleven years is a long time. Fast forward: I'm planning on starting T in January.

[Thinker]

Being a trauma survivor I lived 11 years in seclusion and tried to be a girl. It didn't work for me at all. Eleven years is a long time. Fast forward: I'm planning on starting T in January.


I wish you all the best.

[Linus]

Being a trauma survivor I lived 11 years in seclusion and tried to be a girl. It didn't work for me at all. Eleven years is a long time. Fast forward: I'm planning on starting T in January.


Congrats and good luck. An exciting life adventure to begin.

<snip> I used to start things and never got around to finishing them, switching proirities and scuffling from one task to another and would become emotionally overwhelmed ...now everything has to wait it's turn but I do finish everything eventually :) Anyone else having this experience?

Blue

Not that much because life interferes but I do feel more focused. I have also noticed that it's harder to cry. Some things (like the Humane Society's adoption commercials) used to have me near bawling. Now, barely a tear. In some ways, I don't like this because it makes me feel "unemotional" but perhaps it's more of a narrow set of emotions than before.

[Jet]

Thanks for wishing me well. —Parker

[Thinker]

Thanks for wishing me well. —Parker

Hey Parker...

Where are you in the name change process (assuming you plan to legally change it)?

Are you pursuing testosterone therapy through your regular doctor or someone new? Or a clinic?

Any thoughts on any surgeries?

I'm not intending to be nosey. Just thought it might generate more conversation on the early stages and, ultimately, help others who mosey into this thread.

I certainly respect your position if you don't care to share that information here. :)

[Mister Bent]

I relate fully to the stories recounted here of "otherness." At a very young age I felt I was miscategorized, and among my earliest memories are those of feeling I was simply not like other kids. Like Thinker, I can recall having the same crushes as the boys in my class - that new student teacher in third grade, my riding instructor when I was 9. Once I began to have sexualized thoughts, I simply knew that one day I would grow up and have a wife, that I would be somebody's husband. When I thought of sex I visualized myself with a penis, fucking a woman. It was tremendously confusing to me when it became apparent that was not the course I would be encouraged (or able) to follow. Moreso, that there was no other course to follow and for a long time that made me feel cheated.

There were the inevitable battles with my mother over hairstyle, clothes, the cowboy boots I never wanted to take off. I preferred to spend time with my dad learning to shoot, practicing archery, building tree houses and tinkering with our train set.

It was the early to mid 1970s and my only introduction to "alternative lifestyles" was through the feminist lesbians "of choice" friends of my parents. That was most decidedly not what I had in mind, because I never saw myself as a female lover of women.

Today, after almost a decade of soul searching, consideration of my history, my future and a plethora of other avenues (you know the drill) I have turned my focus toward embracing this trans creature that I am, as I am. I want to be seen as just what I am - neither man, nor woman in the *conventional* sense. I choose this liminal existence, between worlds. I used to see that to mean I was perpetually on the threshold to some undefined something else, but if transitioning can be seen as a process of aligning our insides and our outsides, then my personal transition has meant recognizing that, for me, there is no "something else," there is only this. And despite the nonsense I sometimes have to put up with - you know the story - most often it feels just exactly right for me.

[Greyson]

Blue and Bent, good to see both of you guys here with us. I have seen you guys and Thinker around cyberspace for years and your presence is appreciated. Jet, you too. Linus thank you for starting this thread.

[Paphigleo]

Bent...

Because you put your experience out there I would like to ask if you feel you get more or less 'flack' for your genderqueer alignment than you did when ID'ing as "just Butch'?

Has it been a difficult decision to remain transitionless, or was it more of an emotional transition and self acceptance?

~pickin your brain

[Mister Bent]

Bent...

Because you put your experience out there I would like to ask if you feel you get more or less 'flack' for your genderqueer alignment than you did when ID'ing as "just Butch'?

Has it been a difficult decision to remain transitionless, or was it more of an emotional transition and self acceptance?

~pickin your brain


Living a life of obvious "otherness" invites flack, and I'm going to guess I don't need to expound on that with this crowd. But is it more or less? I think it's probably about the same. There are still those same people who can't accept that which they don't understand, and those who believe embracing one's masculine nature = misogyny or self hate.

The truth about choosing not to medically or socially transition is that sometimes I read stories like these here, or see the "progress" photos and feel a kind of envy. I'm not overcome by jealousy, but rather a pang of "what if..." I sometimes envy those who can move about in public and be addressed by pronouns that feel comfortable to them, or who can try on a suit jacket and have it hang just right. Small things, I know, but these are just what immediately come to mind.

Frankly, top surgery remains a constant item on my wish list - a change I could make that would help push my internal/external selves just that much more into alignment. I think it would help me clear another hurdle of self-acceptance.

[Hudson]

First of all, what the shit is 'a trans'?

Don't call me that.

[Linus]

First of all, what the shit is 'a trans'?

Don't call me that.

Ok. We won't. :)

Trans is a term that I've seen and have used to refer to transsexual individuals, whether MTF or FTM.

Does the term offend you? If so, I'm curious as to why?

[Hudson]

Ok. We won't. :)

Trans is a term that I've seen and have used to refer to transsexual individuals, whether MTF or FTM.

Does the term offend you? If so, I'm curious as to why?

It's not so much offensive to me personally as it is largely offensive to transgender individuals in general.

Typically, in my personal experience, people referring to "a transgender" or "a trans" are chasers who fetishize trans people (same folks who like the term 'she-male'), who know nothing about trans issues and don't much care because they don't see trans people as people to begin with. The respectful way to refer to a trans person is just like that - "a transgendered person" or "a trans person". "Transsexual" is used more as a noun, but saying "a transsexual person" is more respectful. Or trans woman or trans man. I, personally, am not "a trans". I'm a trans person, a person who is trans, specifically a trans man. I'm a regular guy of extraordinary circumstances. Trans is not all of who I am, which is what is implied by calling someone "a trans".

[Linus]

It's not so much offensive to me personally as it is largely offensive to transgender individuals in general.

Typically, in my personal experience, people referring to "a transgender" or "a trans" are chasers who fetishize trans people (same folks who like the term 'she-male'), who know nothing about trans issues and don't much care because they don't see trans people as people to begin with. The respectful way to refer to a trans person is just like that - "a transgendered person" or "a trans person". "Transsexual" is used more as a noun, but saying "a transsexual person" is more respectful. Or trans woman or trans man. I, personally, am not "a trans". I'm a trans person, a person who is trans, specifically a trans man. I'm a regular guy of extraordinary circumstances. Trans is not all of who I am, which is what is implied by calling someone "a trans".


Interesting. I had never heard it defined in that sense and certainly makes me think more about the term. The name of the thread came from other threads that existed elsewhere (e.g., "Ask an FTM" or "Ask a MTF"). Rather than having two threads, I thought it might be better to have one and shortened it. I can ask the admin to add "person" after trans but no guarantees on whether the thread name could be changed.

[Hudson]

Interesting. I had never heard it defined in that sense and certainly makes me think more about the term. The name of the thread came from other threads that existed elsewhere (e.g., "Ask an FTM" or "Ask a MTF"). Rather than having two threads, I thought it might be better to have one and shortened it. I can ask the admin to add "person" after trans but no guarantees on whether the thread name could be changed.

Thanks for the reply Linus. I know where you're coming from with the title. And I like that you have an open mind.

[atomiczombie]

I refer to myself as a transguy. I am not offended by it at all. "Trans" doesn't have a negative connotation for me at all.

[Jet]

Please call me Trans or transgendered. I don't ID or feel like a woman at all because that's not how I'm wired. I'll be taking steps in the near future to "complete" a little more how I feel and have felt since about the age of four.

There's been times I, myself rejected my transgender sexuality—even hated it— because it is such a difficult life when you live a dual existance tosave face and please people. I spent 11 years in seclusion trying to live as a girl.

Misery.

I've been put down and discounted by lesbians here in Atlanta because they reject masculinity of this degree. It isn't an easy life.

So to not refer to me as trans as in "TG" would only offend me.

[Jet]

I refer to myself as a transguy. I am not offended by it at all. "Trans" doesn't have a negative connotation for me at all.

ditto.......

[Hudson]

I refer to myself as a transguy. I am not offended by it at all. "Trans" doesn't have a negative connotation for me at all.

Please call me Trans or transgendered. I don't ID or feel like a woman at all because that's not how I'm wired. I'll be taking steps in the near future to "complete" a little more how I feel and have felt since about the age of four.

There's been times I, myself rejected my transgender sexuality—even hated it— because it is such a difficult life when you live a dual existance tosave face and please people. I spent 11 years in seclusion trying to live as a girl.

Misery.

I've been put down and discounted by lesbians here in Atlanta because they reject masculinity of this degree. It isn't an easy life.

So to not refer to me as trans as in "TG" would only offend me.


You both missed my point, but ok. It's an adjective vs. verb thing. As in "Hey are you a gay?'' or "Her boyfriend's a black." Nevermind.

[Jet]

It's not so much offensive to me personally as it is largely offensive to transgender individuals in general.

I'm transgendered, and not offended at all. Using certain terms is like splitting hairs... I keep it simple: trans for transgendered in my book as well as transsexual. my .02

[Andrew, Jr.]

What I have learned is that I move according to my own time, and nobody's elses. Does it really matter what my age is? No. Does it really matter if I do this or that? No. Nobody else is giving me cash to have my corrective surgery on my chest. If you want too just shoot me an email.:)

Everyone lives as they feel inside their heart and soul. I say why not love that? It really is just that simple.

When I am in the hospital, my doctor writes on all of my charts to call me Andrew, plus Rosie is there to make sure the nurses also do the same. Some folks can be very rude, and disrespectful. No matter what is court ordered or on my driver's license.

Just my 2 cents worth.

Andrew

[Thinker]

First of all, what the shit is 'a trans'?

Don't call me that.


It's not so much offensive to me personally as it is largely offensive to transgender individuals in general.


Hi Ben-Her...

It *seems* that it was offensive to you....based on that initial post. No?

And I think it's kind of difficult to determine that it's "largely offensive to transgender individuals in general". Things like that........where it's kind of a semantics thing.......are difficult to gauge.

I know I wrinkled my nose a bit when I first saw the thread title, but I know Linus well enough to know he meant no harm and that he was trying to be inclusive of transmen *and* transwomen. I also know that trying to nail down terminology in this community that is acceptable to ALL is like trying to nail jello to the wall.

Impossible to do.

Respectfully,
Thinker

[atomiczombie]

What I have learned is that I move according to my own time, and nobody's elses. Does it really matter what my age is? No. Does it really matter if I do this or that? No. Nobody else is giving me cash to have my corrective surgery on my chest. If you want too just shoot me an email.:)

Everyone lives as they feel inside their heart and soul. I say why not love that? It really is just that simple.

When I am in the hospital, my doctor writes on all of my charts to call me Andrew, plus Rosie is there to make sure the nurses also do the same. Some folks can be very rude, and disrespectful. No matter what is court ordered or on my driver's license.

Just my 2 cents worth.

Andrew

And if anyone is particularly generous, shoot me an email too. :D

[Hudson]

Hi Ben-Her...

It *seems* that it was offensive to you....based on that initial post. No?

And I think it's kind of difficult to determine that it's "largely offensive to transgender individuals in general". Things like that........where it's kind of a semantics thing.......are difficult to gauge.

I know I wrinkled my nose a bit when I first saw the thread title, but I know Linus well enough to know he meant no harm and that he was trying to be inclusive of transmen *and* transwomen. I also know that trying to nail down terminology in this community that is acceptable to ALL is like trying to nail jello to the wall.

Impossible to do.

Respectfully,
Thinker

Right, I basically said that re: Linus.

No I wasn't offended (like I said). I meant it half-jokingly. I know a whole lotta 'transes' and we's all feel the same. I thought it was pretty common knowledge to be honest. But to each his or her own.

I prefer he or him just for the record.

[Greyson]

Hi Guys. I know most of you know this stuff about me already. But for those who do not, bare with me. In my profile I use the I.D. Transmasculine Butch. In other instances I also refer to myself as a Transman, Transguy. I agree with Thinker, "It is like trying to nail jello to the wall." I know each of us have different ideas as to what certain descriptor may or man not mean. I know I am most likely going to offend someone. It is not my intention. If I do offend you, please let me know and I will stand corrected.

Other then my above disclaimer, I also came in to say hello and good night to so many old and familiar faces.

[Thinker]

Other then my above disclaimer, I also came in to say hello and good night to so many old and familiar faces.

Hello and good night to you, Greyson. :)

[Jet]

Hi Guys. I know most of you know this stuff about me already. But for those who do not, bare with me. In my profile I use the I.D. Transmasculine Butch. In other instances I also refer to myself as a Transman, Transguy. I agree with Thinker, "It is like trying to nail jello to the wall." I know each of us have different ideas as to what certain descriptor may or man not mean. I know I am most likely going to offend someone. It is not my intention. If I do offend you, please let me know and I will stand corrected.

Other then my above disclaimer, I also came in to say hello and good night to so many old and familiar faces.

Why is it that we must continually dance around our sexuality either because of discrimination or by way of labeling? This past summer I had plans to go on an outing 4th of July. The person who invited me came over and said that the host of the party didn't want me there because I'm transgendered. His mother and sister were going to be there and he didn't want me to do "anything embarrassing." As if I would? But is was okay for an transitioned FTM to be there with his wife? Where does it stop? You can bet I'll damn well be me and I don't care who I offend. Because it's not me who's offensive. It's the other person's unwillingness to be respect something I was born with. I would have been gracious at the outing, but I wasn't given that chance. I'm dismayed at the prejudices within the GLBT community.

[Linus]

Why is it that we must continually dance around our sexuality either because of discrimination or by way of labeling? This past summer I had plans to go on an outing 4th of July. The person who invited me came over and said that the host of the party didn't want me there because I'm transgendered. His mother and sister were going to be there and he didn't want me to do "anything embarrassing." As if I would? But is was okay for an transitioned FTM to be there with his wife? Where does it stop? You can bet I'll damn well be me and I don't care who I offend. Because it's not me who's offensive. It's the other person's unwillingness to be respect something I was born with. I would have been gracious at the outing, but I wasn't given that chance. I'm dismayed at the prejudices within the GLBT community.

As my namesake says: I love mankind. It's people I can't stand.

There are times when I question whether the T really belongs with the rest of the alphabet (so to speak). I suspect that many people put assumptions about people who transition (not all but some). It's ironic that the same conversation was being had by the LGBTQ community a few decades ago (K and I watched an episode of the Golden Girls where Blanche is introduced to her baby brother's new friend -- and soon-to-be-husband; she behaves exactly as the host).

To be honest, I've found that if people stopped worrying about impressions and images life would be a lot easier. In fact, most people (that I've run into, at least) either are oblivious, don't give a shit or too self-centered to really notice. Offense isn't the issue; the issue usually is "Where's the beer?", "Where's the food?" and "Can I have another beer?".

In a positive spin of life, my aunt got married this summer. I wasn't sure how her friends and how our family would take my obvious physical change (I've met many of her friends -- film and music people -- over the years). I was well received and, had I arrived earlier, I would have been the best man for my aunt and new-uncle's wedding. I was floored at this level of acceptance (granted my name is the nickname she choose and she's only 8 years older than me so it's more of a sibling-like relationship).

It sucks, Jet, that you're going through this but I suspect this will lessen over time (at least it has for me). Now either its because people don't care or because I don't give a shit about other's opinions (issues) about me. I hope that these become farther and farther apart for you.

[Greyson]

Why is it that we must continually dance around our sexuality either because of discrimination or by way of labeling? This past summer I had plans to go on an outing 4th of July. The person who invited me came over and said that the host of the party didn't want me there because I'm transgendered. His mother and sister were going to be there and he didn't want me to do "anything embarrassing." As if I would? But is was okay for an transitioned FTM to be there with his wife? Where does it stop? You can bet I'll damn well be me and I don't care who I offend. Because it's not me who's offensive. It's the other person's unwillingness to be respect something I was born with. I would have been gracious at the outing, but I wasn't given that chance. I'm dismayed at the prejudices within the GLBT community.

Jet, I am sorry you were treated poorly by people who are clueless and choose to live in fear of people that may not be the cookie cutter most have come to see as "normal."

All of the labels I use to be a discriptor of who I am, mean something to me. Some of the labels for me are a noun; others more of an adjective. I am not trying to dance around my sexuality nor my gender. I have lived a very much "out" life since the age of 18.

I think there is room for all of us under the umbrella of Queer, Trans, Butch, Gender Outlaw, Bent, whatever. I hope you know I am not trying to dish you. I got your back and the back of the guys in here.

[Jet]

As my namesake says: I love mankind. It's people I can't stand.

There are times when I question whether the T really belongs with the rest of the alphabet (so to speak). I suspect that many people put assumptions about people who transition (not all but some). It's ironic that the same conversation was being had by the LGBTQ community a few decades ago (K and I watched an episode of the Golden Girls where Blanche is introduced to her baby brother's new friend -- and soon-to-be-husband; she behaves exactly as the host).

To be honest, I've found that if people stopped worrying about impressions and images life would be a lot easier. In fact, most people (that I've run into, at least) either are oblivious, don't give a shit or too self-centered to really notice. Offense isn't the issue; the issue usually is "Where's the beer?", "Where's the food?" and "Can I have another beer?".

In a positive spin of life, my aunt got married this summer. I wasn't sure how her friends and how our family would take my obvious physical change (I've met many of her friends -- film and music people -- over the years). I was well received and, had I arrived earlier, I would have been the best man for my aunt and new-uncle's wedding. I was floored at this level of acceptance (granted my name is the nickname she choose and she's only 8 years older than me so it's more of a sibling-like relationship).

It sucks, Jet, that you're going through this but I suspect this will lessen over time (at least it has for me). Now either its because people don't care or because I don't give a shit about other's opinions (issues) about me. I hope that these become farther and farther apart for you.

Jet, I am sorry you were treated poorly by people who are clueless and choose to live in fear of people that may not be the cookie cutter most have come to see as "normal."

All of the labels I use to be a discriptor of who I am, mean something to me. Some of the labels for me are a noun; others more of an adjective. I am not trying to dance around my sexuality nor my gender. I have lived a very much "out" life since the age of 18.

I think there is room for all of us under the umbrella of Queer, Trans, Butch, Gender Outlaw, Bent, whatever. I hope you know I am not trying to dish you. I got your back and the back of the guys in here.

Great posts both of you. You know it's funny, the people that have not hurt me are straight. For some reason, they get it better than folks in our community. I came out to my aunt as a transgender a few weeks ago, and she didn't bat an eye. Changes are beginning to happen with me and T will be part of that so I'll see how this will unfold. Thanks for your responses, both of you.

[Andrew, Jr.]

I have enjoyed this thread a great deal. I am a quiet guy. I rarely get pissed off, but I cannot stand it when I get ma'amed. Remember Linus in the smoke shop? I introduced myself as Andrew. I live as a man. And still I get ma'amed. It grated on my nerves like fingernails being drug across a chalk board.:eek:

Oh well. I say live and let live. However, like Linus, I love mankind, but have issues with people (mainly the ones who are disrespectful and intentionally evil). But that is just me, and how I am. I'm a private person as well. Too many times I have tried to be open, and was hurt deeply. So, I won't be that way ever again. I have learned my lesson.

[Linus]

I have enjoyed this thread a great deal. I am a quiet guy. I rarely get pissed off, but I cannot stand it when I get ma'amed. Remember Linus in the smoke shop? I introduced myself as Andrew. I live as a man. And still I get ma'amed. It grated on my nerves like fingernails being drug across a chalk board.:eek:

Oh well. I say live and let live. However, like Linus, I love mankind, but have issues with people (mainly the ones who are disrespectful and intentionally evil). But that is just me, and how I am. I'm a private person as well. Too many times I have tried to be open, and was hurt deeply. So, I won't be that way ever again. I have learned my lesson.

It's hard to get people to understand a trans individuals mind. I certainly can understand why it's difficult. It's just like me not understanding what it's like to be completely comfortable with one's body from day one. While we should always try to understand what it might be like in someone else's shoes it's hard to comprehend sometimes.

And in the times when I used to get "ma'am'd" (I recently --yesterday and keep in my photo, which is how I look -- got called "Baby" by the manager of a local grocery store -- it was more of a term of friendliness than anything, I think) I smile and remember Llama Surya Das' teaching of compassion for those who mean a lot to us and those we hardly know. Those who do those infractions may have had a hard life, especially those who throw hate at us. I've got to figure that those who are so mired into hate must have lived painful lives to get where they are and I cannot do anything other than feel compassion for the pain they must have endured to get where they are.

So, Andrew, if I can offer: when you get "Ma'am'd", smile and politely correctly them and continue. It will make them re-think a bit and probably blush. In your prayers to God, ask Him/Her to direct them and alleviate their pain. (I hope it's ok that I mention this and if it's not, I'll remove it)


In another tangent: I'm curious as to everyone's thoughts on the term "cis" (I've seen it used in the following examples: cis-gendered, cis-man, cis-woman, etc.) This past summer a huge debate started about cis and how it was offensive to a "cis-gendered individual" (I'll use the term in this sense since I don't have the words on how else to describe it and "non-trans individual" doesn't quite seem right either..).

Opinions? Thoughts?

[Jet]

Addressing us as "Miss"

To which I have replied,
"I ain't no miss, I'm right on target, you got that?


Addressing us as "Ma'am"

To which I have replied,
"Do I look like Miss Daisy to you?
Get the hell out of the car and let me drive."


Remember, I'm in the South, the female pronoun capitol of the universe.



What is cis? Something else to deal with now? Gawd! Does it ever stop?

[Linus]

From this site: http://cydathria.com/ms_donna/tg_def.html


Cisgender

The term Cisgender was coined in 1995 by Carl Buijs, a female-to-male transsexual from the Netherlands.


Main Entry:cis- Function:prefix Etymology:Latin, from cis Meaning: 1: on this side <cislunar> 2:usually ital : cis <cis-dichloroethylene> -- compare TRANS- 2b (http://cydathria.com/ms_donna/tg_def.html#trans2b)

As we are not talking about chemistry, it is definition 1 that we want.
As we defined gender (http://cydathria.com/ms_donna/tg_def.html#gender) above to mean "the behavioral, cultural, or psychological traits typically associated with one sex", Cisgendered literally means: on this side of the behavioral, cultural, or psychological traits typically associated with one sex.
Stated simply, it means that one's identity and presentation matches their physical morphology.

[atomiczombie]

I have enjoyed this thread a great deal. I am a quiet guy. I rarely get pissed off, but I cannot stand it when I get ma'amed. Remember Linus in the smoke shop? I introduced myself as Andrew. I live as a man. And still I get ma'amed. It grated on my nerves like fingernails being drug across a chalk board.:eek:

Oh well. I say live and let live. However, like Linus, I love mankind, but have issues with people (mainly the ones who are disrespectful and intentionally evil). But that is just me, and how I am. I'm a private person as well. Too many times I have tried to be open, and was hurt deeply. So, I won't be that way ever again. I have learned my lesson.

I am right with you when I comes to being "ma'amed" And when I am with a female, being called "ladies", etc. My ex-wife continues to use female pronouns when referring to me. Grr! This is why I am so looking forward to going on T (which will probably begin after the first of this year). I feel invisible. It's painful.

That being said, I worry about how I will be perceived after transition. Will I be shunned but the queer community as no longer being part of the tribe? Will femmes no longer be interested? Will my queerness be invisible? I don't consider myself straight- no because I am attracted to masculine people. I am not. But because I am attracted to femmes. Femmes aren't straight women. I have little interest in straight women. Does that make me a jerk? I hope not. But will I trade being seen as a female for no longer being seen as queer when I go on T?? What is your experiences guys? Do any of you feel the same?

[Bit]

I have a question. Lately when Nick and Gryph and I have been out in public, it has seemed to me that people have been going out of their way to call us "ladies."

Now if you've known me for a while, you already know that it makes me uncomfortable to be called "lady" because, after all, that's my dog's name... well, okay, really it's because of the stereotypical crap I was force-fed growing up about a lady is always quiet and demure and never laughs out loud (I cannot stop laughing when something is funny), a lady never shows the least hint of temper (I cuss like a sailor! sheesh), a lady never sweats (omgawd, in PHOENIX? seriously?! Are you insane?!)---but when I am out with a transman who is wearing a dress shirt and tie, someone who does not even LOOK female, and people go out of their way to call us ladies.... well it just makes me cringe!

I suppose one of the big cringe factors is their attitude; they are quite obviously going out of their way to be extra nice and to reassure us all that "they can tell [the transman] is actually really female, no worries, we accept you as a girl, we aren't going to embarrass you by not noticing your femaleness" omg it just makes me CRINGE....

So anyhow, here's my question. Does this happen to you in your area, or is it just the Midwest US; and if it does happen where you are, does it happen to you more when you are with a Femme than if you are alone?

I would ask Nick directly, but yanno he and Gryph are off shooting paper people dead and I don't want to forget the question---so hey, Nick, would you mind answering too? Do you get this treatment more when I'm with you?

Thanks in advance for your answers, everyone. I appreciate your time.

[Jet]

I am right with you when I comes to being "ma'amed" And when I am with a female, being called "ladies", etc. My ex-wife continues to use female pronouns when referring to me. Grr! This is why I am so looking forward to going on T (which will probably begin after the first of this year). I feel invisible. It's painful.

That being said, I worry about how I will be perceived after transition. Will I be shunned but the queer community as no longer being part of the tribe? Will femmes no longer be interested? Will my queerness be invisible? I don't consider myself straight- no because I am attracted to masculine people. I am not. But because I am attracted to femmes. Femmes aren't straight women. I have little interest in straight women. Does that make me a jerk? I hope not. But will I trade being seen as a female for no longer being seen as queer when I go on T?? What is your experiences guys? Do any of you feel the same?

Do you talk to your therapist? How about joing a support group of transmen.
Just as we aren't attracted to women as women, it's also my belief that there are femmes who are attracted to masculine energy but not in biological men. We're in luck in finding potential partners on the same page.

My biggest worry is what bathroom do i use. I worry about not passing enough to make it to the men's room.

[Linus]

I am right with you when I comes to being "ma'amed" And when I am with a female, being called "ladies", etc. My ex-wife continues to use female pronouns when referring to me. Grr! This is why I am so looking forward to going on T (which will probably begin after the first of this year). I feel invisible. It's painful.

That being said, I worry about how I will be perceived after transition. Will I be shunned but the queer community as no longer being part of the tribe? Will femmes no longer be interested? Will my queerness be invisible? I don't consider myself straight- no because I am attracted to masculine people. I am not. But because I am attracted to femmes. Femmes aren't straight women. I have little interest in straight women. Does that make me a jerk? I hope not. But will I trade being seen as a female for no longer being seen as queer when I go on T?? What is your experiences guys? Do any of you feel the same?

From my experience the following:

I never really felt part of the "Tribe", so to speak although the B-F dynamic did certainly feel more at peace than elsewhere.

Some in the community will shun you. That's a reality. You'll be viewed as a "traitor", so to speak. But just as many will accept you as you are. There are many femmes who like transguys so I don't think you'll be without and you'll likely be very interesting to them.

As for your queerness, invisible to whom? If to yourself, then no. You're the one who defines that, not others. I don't consider myself straight although to mainstream society that doesn't know me I probably do. That is their assumption (we all know that to assume makes an "ass" out of "u" and "me" so one shouldn't do those thigns but people do). Regardless of their assumption, I still define my own sexual orientation.

Would you be a jerk for not wanting to date blond-haired women? I don't think so. It shows your own preferences in a partner, that special "thing" that attracts you to someone.

Remember that the whole transition is the most important selfish thing you have determined you need to do. Everything else will come or not but it doesn't change your core self.

[Linus]

My biggest worry is what bathroom do i use. I worry about not passing enough to make it to the men's room.

For my first 3 months on T I still used women's washroom (never got chased out). I then gradually began using unisex washrooms (usually family washrooms at airports or Starbucks when out in public). I then used men's washrooms. Besides the cleaniness factor (men's washrooms are a sty at times), most men don't pay attention. If you go in there with purpose and direction, no one stops you. And I sit every time. No one has ever challenged me on that.

[Linus]

So anyhow, here's my question. Does this happen to you in your area, or is it just the Midwest US; and if it does happen where you are, does it happen to you more when you are with a Femme than if you are alone?


Hrmm.. I don't think I've ever noticed but then again, I have the advantage of a beard and facial hair seems to cement things for most people's view of gender (voice drop didn't hurt either).

When I was out in Kansas City last year, I got read both ways (I was there for work so by myself).

Did the person in question know both of you before Nick began transition?

[Bit]

That being said, I worry about how I will be perceived after transition. Will I be shunned but the queer community as no longer being part of the tribe? Will femmes no longer be interested? Will my queerness be invisible? I don't consider myself straight- no because I am attracted to masculine people. I am not. But because I am attracted to femmes. Femmes aren't straight women. I have little interest in straight women. Does that make me a jerk? I hope not. But will I trade being seen as a female for no longer being seen as queer when I go on T?? What is your experiences guys? Do any of you feel the same?

I can answer some of your questions, Drew, if you don't mind a Femme perspective.

I have seen Transmen be shunned by the Queer community after transition, and I have seen them be welcomed, both--so I think the answer to that one depends on your own community.

I know at least two Transmen who have said they do feel invisible to the queer community now that they are living as men--but other than what those two have said, I cannot answer that particular question.

Not being attracted to straight women does NOT make you a jerk AT ALL--it makes you one very fine special guy, MUCH appreciated by the Transensual and Queer Femmes among us... and yes, not only will you still be attractive to us, you will be MORE attractive to us because you will be settled in your own identity and you will be happy.

I think people in general highly underestimate the attractiveness of a person who is settled in his own skin, who knows who he is and who is damned happy to be himself.

[atomiczombie]

Do you talk to your therapist? How about joing a support group of transmen.
Just as we aren't attracted to women as women, it's also my belief that there are femmes who are attracted to masculine energy but not in biological men. We're in luck in finding potential partners on the same page.

My biggest worry is what bathroom do i use. I worry about not passing enough to make it to the men's room.

I do see a therapist, and I have been to the san francisco support group, although I now live 2 hours away and that is not easy for me to make it. But I am talking to people and this forum is one of the resources I am utilizing.

[Andrew, Jr.]

Oh Linus, you can ask me to do or say anything. I appreciate you, and your advice. I feel like you are my brother.

Jet, I use a pissing packer. I still am working on the aim situation. For the life of me, I just cannot figure it out, and end up with pee down my leg, all over my boxers, and pants. I feel like such a :eek: to sum it up.

Drew & Bit, You are right about being shunned by the glbt community. I get alot of slack because I don't fit in. I am never in the "in" crowd for whatever reason. I have a tbi that causes me to have a host of neurological health issues. I am on meds, but no surgery or anything else can "cure" my health problems. When you have a head injury, that is it. You are injured for life.

[Blue]

I can remember coming out as lesbian and being shunned by straights.

I can remember coming out as butch and being shunned by lesbians.

I can remember coming out in leather and being shunned by both.

There will always be people out there who will shun, run, fear and try to bully others because it is their nature to bully. The good news is there are plenty of humans out there who will connect with you on a variety of levels from the intimate to the professional and everything in between and they will come from all corners of human experience. Some will need a little time to get their equalibrium. I always give new aquaintenances a bit of slack because I realize that their world might not be as wide as mine. However, life is short and I don't waste my time on anyone who either cannot get over it or are making me uncomfortable with the effort of acting like they are doing me some sort of favor even interacting with me (or playing the 'Look at me! I am so open minded' self delusion). Nasty bigots can just bugger off IMHO. In the end, it is always my choice. It's me who gets to pick and chose who I want to trust and be close to.

I always pass these days. I have an aquaintenance (straight man) who referred to Jenny and I as 'ladies'. It was rather touching because he always treats me with respect and seemed to want to let me know that he 'gets' me even though Jenny always calls me 'he'...LOL. He has shifted now, but it was for a good year. He never meant to offend me...but people looked at him really funny because some of them genuinely didn't know.

Just my 2p (Oh, and Trans works for me. It covers just about everything:))

Blue

P.S. What? No spell check??????

[Jet]

Jet, I use a pissing packer. I still am working on the aim situation. For the life of me, I just cannot figure it out, and end up with pee down my leg, all over my boxers, and pants. I feel like such a :eek: to sum it up.


*Smiling wide*

[Greyson]

I have a question. Lately when Nick and Gryph and I have been out in public, it has seemed to me that people have been going out of their way to call us "ladies."


I suppose one of the big cringe factors is their attitude; they are quite obviously going out of their way to be extra nice and to reassure us all that "they can tell [the transman] is actually really female, no worries, we accept you as a girl, we aren't going to embarrass you by not noticing your femaleness" omg it just makes me CRINGE....

So anyhow, here's my question. Does this happen to you in your area, or is it just the Midwest US; and if it does happen where you are, does it happen to you more when you are with a Femme than if you are alone?
Thanks in advance for your answers, everyone. I appreciate your time.


Evening Bit. I am going to give your questions a shot. This has happened to me where I live in the San Francisco Bay Area. And, as a matter of fact it did seem to happen more often when I was in the company of femmes and other ladies. I have been taking T for the past 18 months and the ma'am thing rarely happens now. I am not a hairy guy so not much facial hair to speak of on me.

There have been a few times in my past that I have just directly dealt with the ma'am and lady thing. First I tell them, Look no need to apologize. I know you are trying to be polite. I know how I look, present. Then I ask, "Seriously, do I look like a lady?" Usually they are not sure what to say and looking at me with a look of dumb foundedness. Then I again try to reasure them with something like "I know you have probably never been face to face with a person like me. I am Trans. This means for me, I purposely present as masculine. So please try this; If you cannot wrap your head around using a masculine pronoun on me, use prounouns that are genderless or use my name, Grey."

By this point they really are trying to make sense of what I have just said. Usually people are so unprepared to hear in a very matter of fact style such openess. They just say okay and the conversation ends or we move on.

I am very serious, I have done this a few times and so far, so good.

[Thinker]

In another tangent: I'm curious as to everyone's thoughts on the term "cis" (I've seen it used in the following examples: cis-gendered, cis-man, cis-woman, etc.) This past summer a huge debate started about cis and how it was offensive to a "cis-gendered individual" (I'll use the term in this sense since I don't have the words on how else to describe it and "non-trans individual" doesn't quite seem right either..).

Opinions? Thoughts?

I've never been fond of "cis-", but using "bio-" always worked just fine for me.

I know there are transmen who do not like to hear the term "bio-male" to refer to someone......oh, someone like my brother.......but it's always been a natural default for me, and it makes clinical sense......*to me*.

I certainly never mean to offend anyone. I also recognize that it's virtually impossible not to offend *someone* when navigating these waters. I think if people are genuine, thoughtful, and honest we should cut 'em a little slack and *respectfully* explain why something may be offensive or hurtful.

Respect is the key. A little compassion, patience, and understanding come in handy too.

[Bit]

Linus and Greyson, thank you both very much!

Did the person in question know both of you before Nick began transition?

Linus, it always seems to be strangers... maybe Nick knows them but, I doubt it. It's really bad in restaurants and grocery stores.

Evening Bit. I am going to give your questions a shot. This has happened to me where I live in the San Francisco Bay Area. And, as a matter of fact it did seem to happen more often when I was in the company of femmes and other ladies.

Greyson, this is what I was wondering. Now I'm wondering if, in the company of men, Transmen might not have this strange situation... in other words, this thing which has always happened around me, this thing which somehow makes strangers think that any Butch I am with is my sister rather than my lover, is this "the-thing-which-makes-me-invisible-as-a-Femme" at work in yet one more way to make people "un-see" a Transman?

If it is, then I can finally understand the knee-jerk reaction some Transmen have had to the idea of staying in the community, and the insistence some Transmen have had on being with straight women rather than Femmes. It never made sense to me and I felt really hurt by the overwhelming way some guys rejected not just the community but also Transensual Femmes.

I never understood why the person who most wanted to support a guy would be the person he rejected... but if a Femme's very presence is enough to make strangers everywhere "un-see" a Transman's truth, it becomes clear why so many guys shy away.

Am I on the right track here? Or am I way out in left field?

I'm telling you, I have been SO TEMPTED to turn to these people in shock and say--as politely as I can, to educate not to blast--"why are you calling him a lady? We would prefer it if you said 'you guys' or 'you folks' please."

I refrain because it isn't my battle to fight, and I wouldn't do that to a guy without permission.

...........but omg I cringe, I cringe, I cringe.....

[Thinker]

I have a question. Lately when Nick and Gryph and I have been out in public, it has seemed to me that people have been going out of their way to call us "ladies."

*snip*

So anyhow, here's my question. Does this happen to you in your area, or is it just the Midwest US; and if it does happen where you are, does it happen to you more when you are with a Femme than if you are alone?


Greyson, this is what I was wondering. Now I'm wondering if, in the company of men, Transmen might not have this strange situation... in other words, this thing which has always happened around me, this thing which somehow makes strangers think that any Butch I am with is my sister rather than my lover, is this "the-thing-which-makes-me-invisible-as-a-Femme" at work in yet one more way to make people "un-see" a Transman?

*snip*

If it is, then I can finally understand the knee-jerk reaction some Transmen have had to the idea of staying in the community, and the insistence some Transmen have had on being with straight women rather than Femmes.

*snip*

Am I on the right track here? Or am I way out in left field?

Hi Bit...

I don't think it's a regional thing at all. From *my* experiences, I was not perceived as male when I was out-n-about because I was read as female. It didn't matter if it was out west, on the east coast, down in Texas, or up in Minnesota.

I had top surgery 16 months prior to starting T. During that time, I very often was sir'd upon initial contact........and then I spoke.

Prior to that, I bound my chest. If someone picked up on that fact, then they didn't even need my voice to "clue them in".

It didn't matter how I dressed, carried myself, or wore my hair. They read me as female, so I was "ma'am" and "lady". And what really sucked is that I don't recall thinking that anyone was *ever* being disrespectful. Quite the opposite, actually.

For me, these were my experiences whether or not I was alone, with family, with guys, or with femmes. It just didn't matter.

So I don't know that *that* would be the reason a transman would opt out of the company of other queers and/or femmes. Just my opinion, of course...

Respectfully,
Thinker

[Jet]

I'd like to know what your families thought; how they responded to your changes.

Anyone is welcome to answer this.

[Linus]

I'd like to know what your families thought; how they responded to your changes.

Anyone is welcome to answer this.

Well, I'm lucky and unlucky. My mom's family (who I grew up with mostly) have been very supportive (I have 3 uncles and 2 aunts along with my grandmother and a 2nd cousin). My grandmother was the only one who said she'd refuse to use anything but my birthname and gender. I think when she saw how happy and content I was at my aunt's wedding this summer she softened. Certainly they all said that they loved me and were supportive but that they might need time to get used to it. My aunt (the one who got married) and my cousin have been the most supportive of me. My other aunt (who was closer to my mom's age) is a little more conservative and taking a little longer but still supportive.

My grandmother, being a nurse, was concerned about the medical side of things but when I let them know about the regular lab work and doctor's visits they were more supportive. Out of the blue, my grandmother started using "Linus" rather than my birthname during our online Scrabble games. I guess she's starting to come around. I suspect she still doesn't understand or like it but still loves me and just wants me happy. I don't see my family that often (maybe 1-2 a year, if that).

My father and his wife... well, they've never really been supportive and he wasn't in my view of life until I was in my late teens (largely due to court orders and not necessarily something he choose). But his conservative Christian background, I'm sure, tells him not to agree to my path. He has said that as long as I'm happy that's all that matters. Again, I don't see him or hear from him that often. I have a cousin on that side of the family that I occasionally hear from and her mother, my aunt/father's sister, does reach out now and again to me.

Transitioning as an adult, I think, can be somewhat easier because you are living your own life and making your own decisions.

[Thinker]

I'd like to know what your families thought; how they responded to your changes.

Anyone is welcome to answer this.

Neither of my parents are alive and weren't when I started my transition.

I have a large number of siblings and loads of nieces and nephews, etc... While I know in my heart of hearts that many of them had certain feelings of not understanding, all have shown (at least to *me*) acceptance and love.

I have not shared real-time space with my family since I started T (mostly because I'm not real big on flying), but I share photos. Not much is said; the few comments I've heard are mostly along the lines of "you look really good".

I know it's hard for them and that they struggle with just how to celebrate/acknowledge/question the physical changes. They're loving and respectful, and I appreciate that.

[Jet]

Neither of my parents are alive and weren't when I started my transition.

I have a large number of siblings and loads of nieces and nephews, etc... While I know in my heart of hearts that many of them had certain feelings of not understanding, all have shown (at least to *me*) acceptance and love.

I have not shared real-time space with my family since I started T (mostly because I'm not real big on flying), but I share photos. Not much is said; the few comments I've heard are mostly along the lines of "you look really good".

I know it's hard for them and that they struggle with just how to celebrate/acknowledge/question the physical changes. They're loving and respectful, and I appreciate that.

I don't know how I'm going to handle mine. None of them has a clue about gender transition or reassignment. I got in a fist fight with my uncle who called me every name in the book and then some as we rolled on the floor fighting. My father disowned me briefly until we reconciled this past year. This was just because I was gay—can you imagine the response to reassignment?

On the other hand, my aunt was way cool about me telling her I was transgendered. But to physically change is another matter entirely. My mother is dead and my dad is really aging. My entire extended family knows I'm gay, and there are many of them. I came out to my best friends and the idea of being male didn't surprise them at all. I don't need top surgery other than keyhole. I've never had to bind or anything like that, and I'm grateful.

I think its going to be imperative to join support groups as well as therapy.

I still want to leave the question open here on the thread as well as, does your work know?

[Linus]

<snip>

This was just because I was gay—can you imagine the response to reassignment?

<snip>

I still want to leave the question open here on the thread as well as, does your work know?

I've heard from some transguys who said that their parents were against them being gay but when they started transitioning it was ok since now they would "appear" normal (hetreonormative relationship appearance concept I think). Hopefully they will be supportive or, at the least, respectful.

My work knows and has been extremely supportive. In fact, I was surprised that even the most ardent born-again Christian was. He was very respectful (I suspect he may not fully understand the whys) and we, when meeting up, still have our discussions about the Bible and such. I know I'm extremely lucky to be in a work environment that is so supportive. Even some of my clients know and are very supportive. Their support comes from me doing an excellent job, regardless of my personal life. (which is how it's supposed to be, no?)

[Bit]

Thank you, Thinker!
And what really sucked is that I don't recall thinking that anyone was *ever* being disrespectful. Quite the opposite, actually.

This is what I've been seeing; it is so PAINFULLY obvious that they're "being respectful" yanno?

Thank you for your input on the whole "with or without a Femme" question. I think the voice issue plagues many Transmen until the T lowers their voices or gives them facial hair, one or the other... but I do have a friend who is talking about going to a vocal coach and I think that might be a good way to handle the voice issue as well.

[Jet]

Thank you, Thinker!


This is what I've been seeing; it is so PAINFULLY obvious that they're "being respectful" yanno?

Thank you for your input on the whole "with or without a Femme" question. I think the voice issue plagues many Transmen until the T lowers their voices or gives them facial hair, one or the other... but I do have a friend who is talking about going to a vocal coach and I think that might be a good way to handle the voice issue as well.

I don't have a voice issue. I'm called sir on the phone. And my oldest and dearest friend has a voice so low she sounds like man always. And she's as straight and feminine as it gets.

[Thinker]

I still want to leave the question open here on the thread as well as, does your work know?

I work for myself right now, so it's a non-issue. It was also very intentionally set up that way.

My entire career prior to my transition (fresh out of college and for the next 21 years) was in K-12 public education. When I decided to move forward with my transition, I was out of the schools and working in central office.

There wasn't one ounce of my being that believed I would be able to announce my transition and carry it out in that position (even though I wasn't physically in a school at that time).

I was a top-notch employee, so maybe it would not have been an issue. I don't know. I do know that the school system I was in did not protect individuals on the basis of gender identity (or sexual orientation, for that matter), and I had a sickening feeling that they would find some way to either get rid of me or push me out.

Disgusting, I know; but it was a feeling I just couldn't shake.

So my lady and I made other plans for me and for 'us', and that is the life we are living now.

[Paphigleo]

I have a question. Lately when Nick and Gryph and I have been out in public, it has seemed to me that people have been going out of their way to call us "ladies."

Now if you've known me for a while, you already know that it makes me uncomfortable to be called "lady" because, after all, that's my dog's name... well, okay, really it's because of the stereotypical crap I was force-fed growing up about a lady is always quiet and demure and never laughs out loud (I cannot stop laughing when something is funny), a lady never shows the least hint of temper (I cuss like a sailor! sheesh), a lady never sweats (omgawd, in PHOENIX? seriously?! Are you insane?!)---but when I am out with a transman who is wearing a dress shirt and tie, someone who does not even LOOK female, and people go out of their way to call us ladies.... well it just makes me cringe!

I suppose one of the big cringe factors is their attitude; they are quite obviously going out of their way to be extra nice and to reassure us all that "they can tell [the transman] is actually really female, no worries, we accept you as a girl, we aren't going to embarrass you by not noticing your femaleness" omg it just makes me CRINGE....

So anyhow, here's my question. Does this happen to you in your area, or is it just the Midwest US; and if it does happen where you are, does it happen to you more when you are with a Femme than if you are alone?

I would ask Nick directly, but yanno he and Gryph are off shooting paper people dead and I don't want to forget the question---so hey, Nick, would you mind answering too? Do you get this treatment more when I'm with you?

Thanks in advance for your answers, everyone. I appreciate your time.



cath...

as I answered you while there (but am posting for posterity)

It does happen more when I am around females, whether Femmes or even my lil sister. I do not feel as though they are trying to be disrespectful it is quite the contrary. Perhaps it has something to do with them wanting to recognize what they perceive as queer and want *me* to know that they *see* me for my *queer* self and are totally ok with it, *ladies* (wink and smile). While this motis operandi causes me no end of internal turmoil, I do not see any disrespect or venom in it. It does not happen as often when I am alone, but I believe I carry myself differently when alone, there is much more 'matter of fact' and 'stay back' than when I am with friends.

The vocal issue is also ever present as is the lack of facial hair. My baby face never helps matters. :S

I am convinced that with reconstruction I will have a much better pass rate and I utterly refuse to blame the issue on such a sweet girl as you.

:D

[Bit]

I am convinced that with reconstruction I will have a much better pass rate and I utterly refuse to blame the issue on such a sweet girl as you.

:D

Bless your heart, love! You are ever the gentleman. :)

I believe T will probably masculinize your face and voice enough so that people will see you as a man with or without surgery--yes, I know, surgery is vitally important! ;) But I think it's the T which will make the most changes.

For me, there seems to be a link between Femme Invisibility and Transman Invisibility... but that might be that I am too close to the situation to see it clearly, I don't know.

What I do know is how startling it is when people go out of their way to be accepting of a Transman as a Queer Butch... cuz yanno, it just has NOT been that long ago that people were practically spitting on the ground whenever Queer Butches walked by. If ever there were a flag flying to point out the shift in the cultural wind of this society, I think this one might be it!

I still cringe inside, though. *sheepish smile*

[Jet]

Like I said, I've never had voice issues i.e. calling Adobe for tech support yesterday and today and both times they called me "sir" or "Parker, sir" the whole time.....of course I just grinned.

[Paphigleo]

Bless your heart, love! You are ever the gentleman. :)

*snip*

What I do know is how startling it is when people go out of their way to be accepting of a Transman as a Queer Butch... cuz yanno, it just has NOT been that long ago that people were practically spitting on the ground whenever Queer Butches walked by. If ever there were a flag flying to point out the shift in the cultural wind of this society, I think this one might be it!

I still cringe inside, though. *sheepish smile*


*nods*

I agree, it was not that long ago that it was common place to endure some asshats diatribe on gender expression on a daily basis.

*winds of change* they are ever blowing, gale-force winds these days.

I cringe inside too hon, I am amazed it doesn't show on the outside.

I am thankfull for one specific aspect of the changing climate re: butches.. I do not feel comfortable yet in using mensrooms.. less and less I have encountered the 'looks' or hasty 'clutching of children' by fellow restroom goers as I used to..

so either people are getting used to it, OR I'm avoiding public restrooms more than I used to (both are distinct possibilities)

[Jet]

I believe T will probably masculinize your face and voice enough so that people will see you as a man with or without surgery-[sic] ....it just has NOT been that long ago that people were practically spitting on the ground whenever Queer Butches walked by. If ever there were a flag flying to point out the shift in the cultural wind of this society, I think this one might be it!


Not that long ago it was taboo to be a butch because they were always stereotyped as diesel dykes connotating something low class, at least where I lived. That's how it was when I left the community, and lived in seclusion for over 10 years, 17 years ago. I was amazed when I "came back" and saw the prevalence of gender reassignments and gender queer ID's out in the open. It was culture shock to say the least. It blew my mind because it was always how I felt and I had kept it to myself and with whomever I was partnered.

Fast forward to today...I'm going to find support groups in Atlanta which i think would be helpful and I already have my doc. I don't require top surgery or binding or anything, just the hormone therapy. Working on therapist now and insurance issues etc.

[Paphigleo]

Like I said, I've never had voice issues i.e. calling Adobe for tech support yesterday and today and both times they called me "sir" or "Parker, sir" the whole time.....of course I just grinned.

If I make a trully concerted effort to keep my voice low, breathing even and stay tranquil calm... *then* I sound sorta close. I know I am my own worst critic on my voice.. but I do believe cath is right in my specific case.

On a seperate note, I think I am gonna have to seek a doc in Wichita. I had tried to contact a local doc via e-mail that I know, like, and respect... after a month and no reply I am gonna strike out in a larger talent pool.

[Mister Bent]

Linus and Greyson, thank you both very much!

Greyson, this is what I was wondering. Now I'm wondering if, in the company of men, Transmen might not have this strange situation... in other words, this thing which has always happened around me, this thing which somehow makes strangers think that any Butch I am with is my sister rather than my lover, is this "the-thing-which-makes-me-invisible-as-a-Femme" at work in yet one more way to make people "un-see" a Transman?

If it is, then I can finally understand the knee-jerk reaction some Transmen have had to the idea of staying in the community, and the insistence some Transmen have had on being with straight women rather than Femmes. It never made sense to me and I felt really hurt by the overwhelming way some guys rejected not just the community but also Transensual Femmes.

I never understood why the person who most wanted to support a guy would be the person he rejected... but if a Femme's very presence is enough to make strangers everywhere "un-see" a Transman's truth, it becomes clear why so many guys shy away.

Am I on the right track here? Or am I way out in left field?

I'm telling you, I have been SO TEMPTED to turn to these people in shock and say--as politely as I can, to educate not to blast--"why are you calling him a lady? We would prefer it if you said 'you guys' or 'you folks' please."

I refrain because it isn't my battle to fight, and I wouldn't do that to a guy without permission.

...........but omg I cringe, I cringe, I cringe.....

Hi Bit, I thought I would take a stab at addressing your thoughts/questions with regard to transmen "rejecting" femmes. Of course, I think it would be impossible to apply definitive answers, but I suspect there are a couple of issues at play.

I do think some transmen choose not to partner with femmes because of how they'll be "read" by the public, but the reasons are varied and often go deeper than simply being "un-seen," afterall it would be difficult to "un-see" many transmen (as opposed to someone like me, who is often sir'ed, frequently not, and can be un-seen without much difficulty).

So I offer up a few of my observations, none of which I think suggest intentional rejection (or rejection from a place of cruelty) of those who would offer the most support.

Some have never felt gay/queer and don't feel a fit with the community.

Some want to fully assimilate into "straight" life, for whatever reason(s), such as fear of exposure (and the possibility of rejection), or greater feelings of association and belonging.

Some don't want any attention drawn to them at all, they simply want to blend in with the crowd. Sometimes, some femmes can be a bit, uh, flamboyant (like drag queens) and that alone draws attention (no judgment, just sayin!)

Sometimes it IS a form of homophobia. I'm going to leave that one for further discussion.

Sometimes it's simply that they feel they don't belong, don't have a right to date/partner from the queer pool anymore. Maybe they've too often heard, "if you think you're a man, why are you trying to date lesbians?!" (That makes me cringe.)

Again, I'm just throwing out somethings I've encountered, nothing definitive here. I would like very much to hear what other transfolk (I've been elsewhere roasted for using that term, but whatevs, I'm using it) have experienced or feel with regard to Bit's questions (which I feel ARE on track).

[Jet]

If you're a man, why are you trying to date lesbians?!"

I don't partner with women who think they are... or are lesbians.

There's that gray part... "transensual" women...attracted to male energy looks, physique, whatever but cannot/or prefers not to be with bio men for whatever reason. And they aren't attracted to women or the idea of being with another woman as a lesbian. (That's how transensual has been explained to me.)

A transensual is attractive to me being male as I am; I've never been a lesbian in the classic sense and never could be. Transitioning falls in place being attracted certain types of women, as I am, and having them to reciprocate... among other things.What I have wondered is why a couple who passes as a man and woman continue to stay in this lifestyle instead the straight lifestyle.

[evolveme]

First, I want to be clear that I respect the intent of this thread and am reading it quietly in order to learn more about my community. I do not mean to derail the discussion or the intended subject except that there is a concept being brought up here I think needs a small mention.

I'll use myself to illustrate. I am a lesbian. Specifically a queer lesbian. I am currently partnered to a transperson. His identity does not affect or alter mine. It never caused me to draw into question my sexual orientation or otherwise. Being with him has helped me to see more clearly the scope of my desire. Intellectually, emotionally, physically.

That scope is quite large. Based solely on gender identity or sex, I cannot tell you with whom I would *not* choose to be. The very idea now seems ludicrous. I can only tell you that, in the main, I am drawn to a given set.

So for me to read that others would exclude me, based on how I identify the main of my sexual orientation is confusing to me. It's the struggle of the bisexual. Because she is capable of being attracted to either sex (provided we are buying the binary here), does that mean she cannot choose? And because of these foundless suspicions against her, she will forever be overlooked.

I am a lesbian. My boyfriend is not.


-- Back to Transpeople.

[Mister Bent]

If you're a man, why are you trying to date lesbians?!"

I don't partner with women who think they are... or are lesbians.

There's that gray part... "transensual" women...attracted to male energy looks, physique, whatever but cannot/or prefers not to be with bio men for whatever reason. And they aren't attracted to women or the idea of being with another woman as a lesbian. (That's how transensual has been explained to me.)

A transensual is attractive to me being male as I am; I've never been a lesbian in the classic sense and never could be. Transitioning falls in place being attracted certain types of women, as I am, and having them to reciprocate... among other things.What I have wondered is why a couple who passes as a man and woman continue to stay in this lifestyle instead the straight lifestyle.


You illustrate some of what I was trying to get at in my post, though I would take issue that a transsensual femme can't also be attracted to women (as a parallel, consider bi-sexual women). There may be some transsensual femmes who would take me to task on this, and by no means do I claim, or aim, to speak for all. I think the definition of transsensual femme, as it was provided to you, is partly accurate. What I think is inaccurate is where it speaks to what a transsensual femme is NOT, because she could, in fact, also be attracted to cis-gendered males.

The key element is simply that her attraction, her primary attraction possibly, is to transgendered/transsexual individuals.

I have often heard questioned why trans individuals and their partners would want to "stay in this lifestyle" (my personal assertion is that this is my life, not a lifestyle), and usually from a place of exclusion (which is what I was getting at with the "why would you want to date a lesbian" statement). These sort of sentiments can quickly turn ugly in an attempt to remove the offending heteronormative types from queer space.

I'm not suggesting that's your position - because here you are, a transitioning male in a queer community, one in which I believe you have said you feel welcome. (Please correct me if I'm overstepping here). I do want to illustrate, though, how easily we can adopt an exclusionary mindset when considering these issues in a butch/femme/queer/lesbian forum.

There was a time I felt I didn't really belong, and I distanced myself from the community, both online and locally. It was my lover who enticed me out from the corner where I sat nursing my drink - my lover, who identifies as a lesbian, and who's identity does not challenge my own. She no more makes me a lesbian than I make her less of one.

I feel comfortable in the world - I make no distinction between my association in my queer community and my associations in the mainstream. When I feel slighted, or have experienced something I know no "straight" friend can relate to, it is to this community that I turn. I would never want to lose that.

I believe transpeople sometimes suffer a lot of grief by feeling they have to "choose." I'm not certain. Maybe I'm just talking out of my ass, but that's a topic I'd really like to see Thinker, Linus, Paphigleo and others weigh in on.

So that's my question: Do you feel you have to choose between the worlds? Do you have to pick a lane, a queer or heterosexual life? Is there really even a need to do so?

[Thinker]

What I have wondered is why a couple who passes as a man and woman continue to stay in this lifestyle instead the straight lifestyle.

I believe transpeople sometimes suffer a lot of grief by feeling they have to "choose." I'm not certain. Maybe I'm just talking out of my ass, but that's a topic I'd really like to see Thinker, Linus, Paphigleo and others weigh in on.

So that's my question: Do you feel you have to choose between the worlds? Do you have to pick a lane, a queer or heterosexual life? Is there really even a need to do so?

Personally speaking, I don't feel I have to choose. And, no, I don't think there is a need to do so.

It may sound pretty basic, but that really is how it has been for me.......for us.

We lead a simple life together, and some of our local interactions are in places and with people who were around when I was not read as male. We don't act any differently now than we did when we were first getting acquainted with these people.

I don't feel that we should steer clear of those people who knew us "back when". I also don't feel that we should *only* socialize where straight people are........or *only* where queer people are........or *only* anywhere else.

And like MB said, I don't relate well to the "lifestyle" thing. This is my life, and I live it. Depending on what we decide to do or where we decide to go, we may end up with folks who are gay or maybe they're straight or any other color under the rainbow.

I'm not sure if I'm answering the questions of if I'm minimizing anything. That's not my intent, of course.

I've just never felt like I needed to choose.

[Bit]

So that's my question: Do you feel you have to choose between the worlds? Do you have to pick a lane, a queer or heterosexual life? Is there really even a need to do so?

Omigawd, Bent, speaking as a Queer Transensual Femme---YES, YES, yes, a thousand times YES, I felt I had to choose between my own identity and my potential partners' identities, between my community and theirs, between being queer and being straight... and omg the grief. I cried for months, trying to figure out what it meant that I was in love with guys who were straight and I still needed to be Queer, trying to figure out how I could have Butches and Transmen both in my life, trying to figure out how I could ever leave my community behind--and believing I would be forced to.

It took me a long time to understand that there would be guys who did not reject me for myself, who did not need me to "make the queer disappear" in order for them to feel safe, who did not feel like my own identity was nothing compared to theirs.

It took me even longer to understand that I would find guys who would not only allow me to be myself, but who would celebrate me AS myself, AS a Femme, AS a member of a highly beloved Queer community.

e, my experiences in the community were so totally different from yours. I got it from both sides, yanno? It wasn't just the guys insisting that if I wanted to be supportive I had to force myself to be straight... it was so MANY of my friends insisting that I was a traitor for being with a man, and trying to take away not just my Femme card, so to speak, but even my Queer card.

It was a tumultuous time for me and I came through it wiser and oh, so very much sadder.

I cringe inside too hon, I am amazed it doesn't show on the outside.

It never shows, Nick. You keep a pleasant smile on your face every time. At first I thought I was the only one who was bothered by it! But lately even Gryph is beginning to be bothered, and yanno... he's a Two Spirit and isn't going to transition!

Bent, I wanted to say thank you for your earlier post about my questions. It is so very difficult to avoid offending people when the subject is so fraught with difficult emotions to begin with, isn't it? I know that no one ever intends to offend... but sometimes there's just so much baggage from lifetimes of not fitting in, of thinking we're the only one in the world, of feeling ostracized by friends, families, lovers.

[evolveme]

e, my experiences in the community were so totally different from yours. I got it from both sides, yanno? It wasn't just the guys insisting that if I wanted to be supportive I had to force myself to be straight... it was so MANY of my friends insisting that I was a traitor for being with a man, and trying to take away not just my Femme card, so to speak, but even my Queer card.

It was a tumultuous time for me and I came through it wiser and oh, so very much sadder.

Again, not to take away from the main discussion here, but I wanted to speak to this.

I imagine the degree is far less for me, Bit, but there has certainly been the expectation that I choose. I've been called a traitor. I've been caught in the cross-fire between those who are staunchly female identified, and those who need to be recognized as male (because they are).

Also, I am more frequently experiencing "lesbian-hate." You know, snark at the very idea of what Lesbian is. Now, given all of this, I do not feel myself to be oppressed. That's certainly not what I'm saying here.

My battle has always been for and about the ones I love. (And I think I can see that it's that way for you too.)

[bonne-maman]

Adding on to the experience of wondering if one has to give up ones queer or lesbian card if one is going to date and love people who are guys, transitioned physically, or not.

I am just the most lesbianey-lesbian that you can shake a stick at. I am a big ol' lesbian, and have been for 30 years (femme IDed for about 27 yrs).

I did confront what e and bit are referring to when I dated a trans guy for a short while. I was stopped dead in my tracks with shock when I realized that dating a guy would mean, well, I couldn't figger out what it would mean. After a lot of thought, (and this guy hooked me up with a friend who is long-time lesbian partnered with a trans-guy to talk to), I came to the same place that e, bit and Mr. Vent have come to, that my identity was (of course) based on ME, and my history, culture, etc, etc. It was not based on the gender of the person I was dating/loving. This seemed so odd, that I could be a guy-dating lesbian, but, it was just, for real. Gender is complicated, so everything that springs from it is complicated too.

Then I got all happy because I had another whole segment of the population to potentially date. :p

[Jet]

The above posts are excellent posts. But I feel I may have rattled some cages without meaning to. And please forgive me if I have.

The definition of my life is simple. I doubt I will ever find a partner again, which is beside the point. But if I were to ever become involved it would be.... first....because she is attracted to my maleness or "male energy" as the counterbalance to her femininity. I guess my view on this is very traditional. I can't tell you how many times I've been rejected by the gay community by women who make it clear to me that they are lesbians and wanted no part of maleness. "If I wanted a man, I'd be with one," is usually the answer. So I'm left asserting that this must be a classic example of lesbians and that we are on opposite ends of the spectrum. But when 3 three women who ID as "transenual femmes" each tell me they are attracted to male energy without the bio bullshit, then I figure this is how it must be.

Anyway thanks for responding to my earlier posts...really well-done you guys...the bottom line is that I'm going to do what pleases me or completes me as the person that I am. And with IDs seemingly complicated and inter-woven I doubt whether I will be involved or loved for who I am which is why I distance myself do often.

[Mister Bent]

Personally speaking, I don't feel I have to choose. And, no, I don't think there is a need to do so.

It may sound pretty basic, but that really is how it has been for me.......for us.

We lead a simple life together, and some of our local interactions are in places and with people who were around when I was not read as male. We don't act any differently now than we did when we were first getting acquainted with these people.

I don't feel that we should steer clear of those people who knew us "back when". I also don't feel that we should *only* socialize where straight people are........or *only* where queer people are........or *only* anywhere else.

And like MB said, I don't relate well to the "lifestyle" thing. This is my life, and I live it. Depending on what we decide to do or where we decide to go, we may end up with folks who are gay or maybe they're straight or any other color under the rainbow.

I'm not sure if I'm answering the questions of if I'm minimizing anything. That's not my intent, of course.

I've just never felt like I needed to choose.

I relate to much of what you said, particularly those things in bold. I respect each individual's desire to follow what they see as their path, even if it means turning away from the community that has supported them. I wonder if the sum of the experience for some, though, hasn't been one of support, when in fact they are just as likely to experience backlash and exclusion (but that's a different conversation).

Anyway. We live a simple life, too. We're just folks. We have to attend the company picnic (and be the only "non-traditional" couple in attendance), take the kid to her myriad social events, and go about our regular routine. I don't feel "other" until someone makes me feel so, which isn't really all that often.

I have a bit of a personal question, if you're game. At some point, it's likely you made the decision to dress in masculine fashion; maybe that first time you wore a suit to a family function, or in a non-queer social setting? How did that compare (coming out as a masculine butch), if there is any comparison, to "coming out" as male to "people who were around when (you were) not read as male?" In other words, were the experiences similar in terms of your own anxiety, or how people responded to you? (Hoping that makes sense.)


Omigawd, Bent, speaking as a Queer Transensual Femme---YES, YES, yes, a thousand times YES, I felt I had to choose between my own identity and my potential partners' identities, between my community and theirs, between being queer and being straight... and omg the grief. I cried for months, trying to figure out what it meant that I was in love with guys who were straight and I still needed to be Queer, trying to figure out how I could have Butches and Transmen both in my life, trying to figure out how I could ever leave my community behind--and believing I would be forced to.
[snip]

Bent, I wanted to say thank you for your earlier post about my questions. It is so very difficult to avoid offending people when the subject is so fraught with difficult emotions to begin with, isn't it? I know that no one ever intends to offend... but sometimes there's just so much baggage from lifetimes of not fitting in, of thinking we're the only one in the world, of feeling ostracized by friends, families, lovers.

Thank you, Bit for speaking from the Partner Perspective. I read the first line of your post and turned to e and said, "of course - It applies to both sides of the relationship!" So glad you addressed this.

I agree that this subject, and all its permutations and off-shoots are fraught with emotion and potentially explosive. But I think as long as we remember to respect each person's experience, and remain open we can navigate it. Many of us (I know you, Thinker, me, and others here) were on b-f.com talking about this stuff before anyone even knew the term "cis-gendered." All we had was bio- this and that. Point being, we all had to learn along the way.

[Thinker]

I have a bit of a personal question, if you're game. At some point, it's likely you made the decision to dress in masculine fashion; maybe that first time you wore a suit to a family function, or in a non-queer social setting? How did that compare (coming out as a masculine butch), if there is any comparison, to "coming out" as male to "people who were around when (you were) not read as male?" In other words, were the experiences similar in terms of your own anxiety, or how people responded to you? (Hoping that makes sense.)

Great question...

I would say I was *much* more anxious coming out as a masculine butch (specifically the haircut, clothing choices, etc...) than coming into my own during my transition.

And thinking about why, I suppose it's because moving forward with my transition was peaceful for me and felt like the right fit.

Does that answer it?

[Mister Bent]

Great question...

I would say I was *much* more anxious coming out as a masculine butch (specifically the haircut, clothing choices, etc...) than coming into my own during my transition.

And thinking about why, I suppose it's because moving forward with my transition was peaceful for me and felt like the right fit.

Does that answer it?

It does. Thank you.

Sometimes I have small anxiety (ok, maybe not so small) when I have to "come out" over and over again (to people who haven't seen me in eons, for example), but then I recognize that I am far more comfortable being ME for myself, than trying to downplay me for their sake.

[Jet]

Tell me, how do bio men receive you? Do some know? Do they react with kindness or are they rude or threatening? Have you been mocked by bio men who don't get it? Do you feel safe in daily life, bearing in mind that you'll exchange with bio men who may not know, but may find out.

Case in point:
I got in a fist fight and punch-and-kick bruhaha with my uncle. He's a Viet Nam vet with issues, Big Red 1, 6'4, traditional...you get the picture.

[Thinker]

Tell me, how do bio men receive you? Do some know? Do they react with kindness or are they rude or threatening? Have you been mocked by bio men who don't get it? Do you feel safe in daily life, bearing in mind that you'll exchange with bio men who may not know, but may find out.

Case in point:
I got in a fist fight and punch-and-kick bruhaha with my uncle. He's a Viet Nam vet with issues, Big Red 1, 6'4, traditional...you get the picture.

From what I can tell, those who do not know I'm a transman don't think twice about me.

There are many around here who *do* know. Most of them do not treat me any differently than any other guys who are around. There is one in particular who is as kind as anyone could hope for; however, when given the opportunity he refers to my lady and me as "gals". We don't get him or his motivation, so we have chosen not to be around him anymore. He seems a bit off, and it makes both of us a little uncomfortable.

I haven't had any experiences where I was on the receiving end of hostility or ugliness. I do feel safe now (can't say the same was true pre-T).

[Jet]

You don';t even look like a girl and the guy says gals? Geezes that would send me right in his face and right through the ceiling.

Which brings me to another subject: roid rage
Did you experience any?

[Thinker]

You don';t even look like a girl and the guy says gals? Geezes that would send me right in his face and right through the ceiling.

Which brings me to another subject: roid rage
Did you experience any?

Well, we recognize that his problem with me is just that.......*his* problem. I don't engage him on it because he isn't anyone we *have* to be around and, like I said, he's a little off. People like that make me nervous. :eek:

No rage here. Actually, I've been pretty impressed with how often I have been able to walk away from things that made my blood boil without saying a word. I believe that if I were to start, I'd end up going too far and making an ass out of myself. I don't want to be that guy.

[Jet]

Good answer, but am I correct that T therapy causes rage behavior? My doc and i are going to talk about all this. I wanted to know if the injections changed your mood during any kind phase or period of time.

[Thinker]

Good answer, but am I correct that T therapy causes rage behavior? My doc and i are going to talk about all this. I wanted to know if the injections changed your mood during any kind phase or period of time.

It *can* cause it, but it hasn't in me; and I know plenty of other guys who will say the same is true for them.

In most places, you'll hear guys say, "If you had anger issues pre-T, then you'll certainly have them once you start on T." Some will say that T leveled them out and helped alleviate previous anger issues. And some will say that T changed them and contributed to behaviors they did not like (aggression, rage, etc...).

I'm not an expert on it, but it seems to me that it is a case-by-case thing. No one-size-fits-all........for sure.

[Jet]

I have to wonder what the hell I'm going to look like. Geezes. Thanks for answering tonight and for the links you've posted.

[Thinker]

I have to wonder what the hell I'm going to look like. Geezes. Thanks for answering tonight and for the links you've posted.

Heh... I always look in the mirror and think I look exactly the same. My lady tells me 'no', and it seems that some of the folks I saw in Vegas last month would say 'no' too. There were people there whom I had not seen in two or more years, and they did not know who they were talking to. :confused:

Soooo... I'm guessin' you'll change, but I don't figure *you* will notice anything drastic.

Have a good night, Parker.

[TCB]

Heh... I always look in the mirror and think I look exactly the same. My lady tells me 'no', and it seems that some of the folks I saw in Vegas last month would say 'no' too. There were people there whom I had not seen in two or more years, and they did not know who they were talking to. :confused:

Soooo... I'm guessin' you'll change, but I don't figure *you* will notice anything drastic.

Have a good night, Parker.

Thinker I must say, when I saw you in Vegas..it took me a while to catch on that it was YOU. Last I saw you was in Dallas. I was so oblivious for god knows how long. You're looking great buddy!
Not to mention, I have no idea why in the hell neither of us had spoken that whole weekend. I'm annoyed with myself, lol.

[Leigh]

I've been watching this thread on the sidelines for a few days, only because work has been very stressful and tonight was no exception. I just wanted to thank everyone for answering My earlier questions and for those who ask questions that maybe I haven't thought of or were just abit too shy to ask thank you. I enjoy reading everyone's posts and always learn something new, which is helping Me with My own journey which has just begun :)

[Bit]

Also, I am more frequently experiencing "lesbian-hate." You know, snark at the very idea of what Lesbian is. Now, given all of this, I do not feel myself to be oppressed. That's certainly not what I'm saying here.

My battle has always been for and about the ones I love. (And I think I can see that it's that way for you too.)
Nooooo, e, no. I have done my damnedest to stay OUT of battles, to stay in the middle where I belong rather than choosing one side over the other; yet I have been forced into a box and stereotyped MUCH to my very vocal protests!

I have ALWAYS stood for ALL Butches and ALL Transmen. I have never, ever wanted to choose. I finally gave in to the inevitable several years ago, admitted defeat, and left the field. I just could not take the battles anymore, not in my own community, not in the place where I wanted most to fit in. Since I was single at the time, the community was all I had... I couldn't deal with dissension and contention at that point, you know? The pain went too deep.

I'm sure you read about Parker's experience with Lesbians? Mine has been the Femme parallel, with people I considered sisters telling me I no longer belonged to their club because I wanted to be with a man, and slamming the door behind me. This happened so often, to so many of us, that it became a cliche.

I have seen a lot of Lesbian hate; I know it's out there---but I have also seen those of us who have tried to talk about this painful experience be accused of Lesbian hate when that isn't accurate.

Again, it's one of those emotionally fraught issues, where we all bring past pain to the table; sometimes that pain is what speaks the loudest.

The above posts are excellent posts. But I feel I may have rattled some cages without meaning to. And please forgive me if I have.

{{{{{{{{{{{{Parker}}}}}}}}}}} Didn't rattle my cage, darlin, but I do appreciate hearing your experiences.

Thank you, Bit for speaking from the Partner Perspective. I read the first line of your post and turned to e and said, "of course - It applies to both sides of the relationship!" So glad you addressed this.

Thanks, Bent. I couldn't NOT answer, it just burst out of me; then I thought, "sheesh, Cath! He didn't ask you!" but I couldn't NOT post anyhow. *sheepish smile*

[atomiczombie]

Ok so I talked to my doctor (general practitioner) today, and she said I need to be careful about hormones because I have a history of carcinoid tumors. Geez, I had one in my appendix when it was removed 3 years ago. Now she tells me if I go on T they could come back and spread. They aren't cancerous tumors exactly, but they can cause problems. Ugh what do I do if the Endocrinologist doc says I can't go on T??

[Soft*Silver]

I have got to get my boyfriend over here. His screen name is Camo Eagle and he just had top surgery done. It went well and other than some minor discomfort at first and later, some pinches here and there, he is healing marvelously well. He had breast cancer a few years ago. His Dr is also concerned about him taking T because of this. He also had open heart surgery too. And he is 47. So many obstacles and yet he follows his dreams. I love his pluck!

I as a femme could care less who battles with me about my orientation becaue of who I date. Good lord. When i was with a bio man, lesbians hollered I was one of them> When I came out, they said I couldnt be a lesbian because I shaved my legs, wore make up and smelled pretty. When I discovered butches, I fell in love all over again with who I was because I had met my compliment. And then i discovered FtMs. Good lord. It was like not just chocolate, but Godiva chocolate! So they can tell me where I dont belong all they want. I'm the one with the good chocolate all over her fingers and in her mouth..yum....

Give Camo until Monday at least..its his military weekend...and with the stuff at Fort Hood, i am sure he is going to be amply busy even when he isnt on base. Look for him tho!

[StephanieAlexis]

Rather than make it specific to FTMs or MTFs, figured one thread should suffice. So, all those embarrassing questions you wanted to ask but figured or knew were kinda impolite, ask here. No guarantees you'll get an answer but you can ask. :)

Thank you Linus for setting up this forum. In this day of media/political misinformation and media exaggeration this kind of setting becomes all the more important.

[Julie]

Ok so I talked to my doctor (general practitioner) today, and she said I need to be careful about hormones because I have a history of carcinoid tumors. Geez, I had one in my appendix when it was removed 3 years ago. Now she tells me if I go on T they could come back and spread. They aren't cancerous tumors exactly, but they can cause problems. Ugh what do I do if the Endocrinologist doc says I can't go on T??

I read your Carcinoid Tumor diagnosis -- The fact is... Most carcinoid tumors are malignant -- Actually the highest rate of carcinoid is found among men. I would read this site and if you can get your doctor to consult with Dr. Richard Warner in NYC, the leading (USA) carcinoid specialist, I would ask him.

http://www.carcinoid.org/

Truly, this is something which you need to check into, and are you following up with chemistries with your history (oooo i sound like a mother). While it is true, most carcinoids that are in the appendix are benign.

Julie

[StephanieAlexis]

1) When did you begin feeling like you were different?

2) Did you always know that you should have been born the opposite sex, or did that come abit later though you always knew you were different?

3) When did you decide to come out, and how did you come out?



Good questions, thank you for asking.

Since many have already answered I'll try not to repeat and keep succinct. (No, seriously, lol!)

1 - I remembering starting to feel different by 1st/2nd grade, asking God why i hadn't been born like my sisters. Of course, not having any vocabulary to explain what I was feeling, the very thought that I should be asking such a question (circa late '60's/early '70's) scared me badly.

2 - Yes...and no. Again, I felt (with underlying knowledge) that I should have been more like my sisters, although i didn't know to what extent until later. (Actually, this seems to be asking 2 distinct questions, when did I know I was trans, and when did I know I was different. Should these always been assumed to be inclusive? Hmmm...)

3 - I came out just before my 40th birthday. it was a milestone filled with much emotion, agnst and hope. I came out in small, incremental steps at first, telling close friends, seeking out a therapist, a family member or two. I did tell my ex, which turned out to be the right - yet painful - decision.

[StephanieAlexis]

Today, after almost a decade of soul searching, consideration of my history, my future and a plethora of other avenues (you know the drill) I have turned my focus toward embracing this trans creature that I am, as I am. I want to be seen as just what I am - neither man, nor woman in the *conventional* sense. I choose this liminal existence, between worlds. I used to see that to mean I was perpetually on the threshold to some undefined something else, but if transitioning can be seen as a process of aligning our insides and our outsides, then my personal transition has meant recognizing that, for me, there is no "something else," there is only this. And despite the nonsense I sometimes have to put up with - you know the story - most often it feels just exactly right for me.




Thank you for sharing this, Mr. Bent. For me your story sums up how transition - however it is defined - becomes such a personal tool empowerment for the one going through it. (How I wish the critics would think about that.)

[Andrew, Jr.]

Mr. Bent,

I really appreciate your last post. Thank you. It hits home for me as well.

Namaste,
Andrew

[atomiczombie]

I read your Carcinoid Tumor diagnosis -- The fact is... Most carcinoid tumors are malignant -- Actually the highest rate of carcinoid is found among men. I would read this site and if you can get your doctor to consult with Dr. Richard Warner in NYC, the leading (USA) carcinoid specialist, I would ask him.

http://www.carcinoid.org/

Truly, this is something which you need to check into, and are you following up with chemistries with your history (oooo i sound like a mother). While it is true, most carcinoids that are in the appendix are benign.

Julie

If that is the case, then maybe I could go on T for a limited period of time, just until I get the masculinizing effects, then go off. I was thinking of that anyway, to be honest. Since I have no ovaries or uterus, I won't go back to producing estrogen afterwards, so that won't effect the changes that T will make. I gotta talk to my doctor about this.

Oh, and the word Carcinoid can be broken down to mean not cancer, but acts like a cancer: Carc= cancer, noid= acts like, or like but not the same.

Oh, and one more thing: when I had my appendix out, they did a CT scan and found nothing more in my gut. That was 3 years ago.

[Leigh]

I am just poking My head in to say hi to everyone :)

[Andrew, Jr.]

Hiya Braedon!

When I had my total hysterectomy, I had two tumors that were growing from my bladder down my leg. One was 5 pounds, and the second was 2.5 pounds. The doctor never saw them until she opened me up, then stopped surgery to get an oncologist. My surgery went from an hour and a half to 8 hours long. All of my internal organs moved around from the tumors that were growing. Then came the Oxycotyn. It triggered a heart attack. I went from one thing to another.

I still believe that my tumors were long growing and causing me pain, but the doctors I saw ignored my complaints. In fact, when I saw the last doctor she never wrote down any of my concerns about the pain I was experiencing walking or getting up from a sitting position to a standing position. All she said was I was fat and to loose weight. Sheesh. Now, it all makes sense.

If something isn't right, get it checked out. Doctors are a dime a dozen. If something isn't right, find a doctor who is going to listen and find out what is wrong.

:argue:

[Julie]

If that is the case, then maybe I could go on T for a limited period of time, just until I get the masculinizing effects, then go off. I was thinking of that anyway, to be honest. Since I have no ovaries or uterus, I won't go back to producing estrogen afterwards, so that won't effect the changes that T will make. I gotta talk to my doctor about this.

Oh, and the word Carcinoid can be broken down to mean not cancer, but acts like a cancer: Carc= cancer, noid= acts like, or like but not the same.

Oh, and one more thing: when I had my appendix out, they did a CT scan and found nothing more in my gut. That was 3 years ago.

CT Scans do not generally find carcinoids until they are about 5mm -- there is a special scan called an Octreotide Scan, which detects these hormone producing neuroendocrine tumors. Including chemistry testing such as 5HIAA and ChromograninA. These are the only conclusive testing available in the states for carcinoid. Just be sure you check it out with your doctor and at the very least a carcinoid specialist.

Julie

[Mister Bent]

Thank you for sharing this, Mr. Bent. For me your story sums up how transition - however it is defined - becomes such a personal tool empowerment for the one going through it. (How I wish the critics would think about that.)

Thank you, Stephanie. I appreciate your insight - your perspective on my words helps me to see that, too. As well, you have pin pointed for me something I've felt from many of the posts here, but have not been able to quite find the words for, and that is the sense of empowerment that comes from self-actualization.

Sidenote: I think you're giving the critics too much credit when you imply that they think. ;)

[Bit]

Sidenote: I think you're giving the critics too much credit when you imply that they think. ;)

Okay, that actually made me snort... but I think you and Stephanie are both onto something here, Bent. One of the things I've noticed is that those who are vociferously anti-transition are almost always coming from a very emotional place, and they really aren't thinking. One cannot reason with them.

Once the emotions are spent, then they start thinking.

BTW, hello Stephanie! Welcome to the Planet!

[Leigh]

Just coming in to say hello to everyone :)

[atomiczombie]

CT Scans do not generally find carcinoids until they are about 5mm -- there is a special scan called an Octreotide Scan, which detects these hormone producing neuroendocrine tumors. Including chemistry testing such as 5HIAA and ChromograninA. These are the only conclusive testing available in the states for carcinoid. Just be sure you check it out with your doctor and at the very least a carcinoid specialist.

Julie


Thanks Julie, this info helps me a lot. :gimmehug:

[NotAnAverageGuy]

Waving hello to my fellow Trans brothers and sisters

[Ursy]

I know there are transmen who do not like to hear the term "bio-male" to refer to someone......oh, someone like my brother.......but it's always been a natural default for me, and it makes clinical sense......*to me*.


I like the term "standard issue"... and my guy's a custom job :)
Kris sometimes uses the term "natal male". That kinda makes sense to me too. I think "bio-male" is useful in the sense that its meaning is more intuitively interpretable, when you're speaking in the context of "transness".

[StephanieAlexis]

I like the term "standard issue"... and my guy's a custom job :)
Kris sometimes uses the term "natal male". That kinda makes sense to me too. I think "bio-male" is useful in the sense that its meaning is more intuitively interpretable, when you're speaking in the context of "transness".


Urs, thank you for this!. "Standard issue" is a new term for me! :)

This post, and a couple of others, have made me think of language and lexicon regarding the trans-community. My experience has been if you get ten individuals who are trans you will come up with twenty different self-identifying terms. Sometimes this leads to further information; sometimes this leads to quarrels. ("I am not a tranny!" "Well, I am!")

My experience has been that this is not something new. I have heard this discussion blossom up in the middle of many different groups, whether socially, politically or even ethnically identified. For instance, which is more proper, dyke or lesbian? Queer or gay? Homosexual or same-sex?

Here is my question: Should there be any one standard of words/phrases used to identify people of transgender experiences and their lives?

My initial reaction is, oh hell, no! We are individuals and to some extent so are our experiences, and our language should reflect that. But then the activist in me says, well, yes, that's very p.c. but does having such a varied vocabulary help or hinder the community and its message on a more macro (local/state/federal) level? let me be the first to say, to that question I have no clear response.

[Andrew, Jr.]

I am just dropping by to say hello. I hope everyone is ok.

[NotAnAverageGuy]

Steph, I am with you on your answer to your question, but however I am still unclear as how as members of the community, that we can get other members to actually call us what we prefer.

[SelfMadeMan]

Here is my question: Should there be any one standard of words/phrases used to identify people of transgender experiences and their lives?


Yeah, I don't see a way to come up with a standard for this either. I consider myself transsexual, and some people hate that term. I just don't feel the term transgender fits me anymore. I don't really like "tranny" but some people do - so I think everyone has a term they feel more akin to and that's cool. I just try to determine what works for each individual and respect that.

[StephanieAlexis]

Steph, I am with you on your answer to your question, but however I am still unclear as how as members of the community, that we can get other members to actually call us what we prefer.

Hiya! Really good point you make! Personally I think we should hold other members of this community to the same level of expectation and respect as we do those outside this community.
Would I have some hesitancy in asking another woman of transsexual experience not to call me a tranny? Sure - I do not want to seem like the language police, challenging another's identifiers - but I would ask her anyway.

[Ursy]

Urs, thank you for this!. "Standard issue" is a new term for me! :)

This post, and a couple of others, have made me think of language and lexicon regarding the trans-community. My experience has been if you get ten individuals who are trans you will come up with twenty different self-identifying terms. Sometimes this leads to further information; sometimes this leads to quarrels. ("I am not a tranny!" "Well, I am!")

My experience has been that this is not something new. I have heard this discussion blossom up in the middle of many different groups, whether socially, politically or even ethnically identified. For instance, which is more proper, dyke or lesbian? Queer or gay? Homosexual or same-sex?

Here is my question: Should there be any one standard of words/phrases used to identify people of transgender experiences and their lives?

My initial reaction is, oh hell, no! We are individuals and to some extent so are our experiences, and our language should reflect that. But then the activist in me says, well, yes, that's very p.c. but does having such a varied vocabulary help or hinder the community and its message on a more macro (local/state/federal) level? let me be the first to say, to that question I have no clear response.

I agree! I think we should all be free to define our own brand of "femmeness", "butchness", "trans-ness" (and the list goes on). Why should we insist that because one term works for me, that it should apply to the next femme/butch/trans person?

I think any term in itself is not the issue - it's the attitude with which it is used. A standardised vocabulary means absolutely nothing if the person who is using it is disrespectful or dismissive about it. Conversely, I can always forgive a person who has good intentions but who may not be using the most politically correct term. Maybe they just don't have the educational background to know any different.

[bigbutchmistie]

Hello all. I am posting here because I recently realized that I am trans. Its weird this body that I have. And I dont know how to quite identify. Everything is still so new to me. Do you identify as FTM without having the surgery? Do you identify as trans? Or the same butch label I have called myself for so long. Anyone who wants to PM me and help me out would be greatly appreciated. :) Hugs around to all you guys.

[Linus]

Hey BBM and welcome to the thread. How one identifies is entirely personal decision. What made you realize that you are trans? And trans could mean either transsexual or transgender. Are you going to medically transition? Do you intend on having surgery or are holding off?

There is no right or wrong answer to each of these but it's more something you have to address with yourself.

For me personally, I did an identity transition from butch --> transgender/genderqueer --> transguy/FTM. I haven't had surgery yet (although really want top surgery) but have been on T for over a year now.

[Andrew, Jr.]

I think how one id's is personal, I agree Linus. It comes from your soul. It doesn't come from between your legs as Chaz Bono stated in one of his interviews.

I had the surgeries to complete myself (mind, body, spirit). The only one left is my top surgery to correct the first one done. My surgeries all were cash. That is the one thing I wish would be covered by insurance. Going under general anesth. is not easy. In fact, it really makes me sick, and hard to wake up from. But I would love to feel the wind blowing on my chest while I am wearing swim trunks at the beach. It would be :drool::cheer::theisland::party::sparklyheart: all at once. *Deep sigh.

I believe that there are always going to be those in our own glbt community who will put down those of us who are ftm/mtf. I have witnessed it firsthand. I think it sucks. Has anyone else witnessed this?

[Jet]

I debated on posting this, but I've decided to since I'm going to embark on T in the coming months.

First, this post is for sharing experiences only. It is NOT to challenge anyone, or to start any kind of debate. I'm just putting this out here; if you want to respond fine, if not, okay.

Couple of nights ago, I spoke to a therapist who is a fully transitioned FTM. We discussed therapy and the transition process among other things, one of which was...the absolute hell....he went through in losing so much by transitioning including most of his therapy clientele. He said it definitely had its price and he was emphatic about therapy, being very prepared, and having a solid support system.

He didn't transition until he was 50, which is my case as well at 53. After our conversation, I gave this some thought and its obvious to me that age or being seasoned with life experiences doesn't make transitioning any easier to go through. Yet, I see people in this subculture on T in droves. I'm amazed at how many people are going through this in their 20s and early 30s! And because it's life altering, I would think it would be a load to handle for someone so young who is apt to lose their family, job, friends or creating a crisis with a ripple effect.

I look at transitioning as life changing. I'm 53 with a lot of "life experiences" and I still believe its going to be very hard for me. That's why it baffles me to see transitioning or gender reassignment among people who are as young as their 20s. A friend of mine once said she thought the reason that younger people are transitioning at the rate and the age they are is because, and (brace yourself for this) they can't accept being gay. Is that even plausible? And what kind of therapist would approve of their hormone therapy or reassignment? Without any firm answers, I personally am not sure I agree.

On the note of [I]acceptance, Atlanta is an international city with about 5-7 million people. You would think it would be a more progressive and embrace diversity of this kind, even with Southern Comfort and so on. But I don't see it that way at all; case in point, the therapist last night and 2 other transgendered folks who have had a time of it here. And I lost 3 friends here who were gay men and didn't want me around because I was transgendered. It's one thing not be accepted in a city this size and quite another to be unacceptable in the LGBT community.

I'm not suggesting that paying a high price for transitioning is the rule. What may be really difficult for some, maybe isn't for others. So I would like to know about the road less traveled from folks who have transitioned and the prices paid emotionally, physically and/or monetarily if you want to share. Or ...the flip side which is a great journey full of support and personal fullfillment for you.

Thanks in advance for your answers and for sharing you're thoughts and/or your experiences.

[Linus]

A friend of mine once said she thought the reason that younger people are transitioning at the rate and the age they are is because, and (brace yourself for this) they can't accept being gay. Is that even plausible? And what kind of therapist would approve of their hormone therapy or reassignment? Without any firm answers, I personally am not sure I agree.

On the note of [I]acceptance, Atlanta is an international city with about 5-7 million people. You would think it would be a more progressive and embrace diversity of this kind, even with Southern Comfort and so on. But I don't see it that way at all; case in point, the therapist last night and 2 other transgendered folks who have had a time of it here. And I lost 3 friends here who were gay men and didn't want me around because I was transgendered. It's one thing not be accepted in a city this size and quite another to be unacceptable in the LGBT community.

I'm not suggesting that paying a high price for transitioning is the rule. What may be really difficult for some, maybe isn't for others. So I would like to know about the road less traveled from folks who have transitioned and the prices paid emotionally, physically and/or monetarily if you want to share. Or ...the flip side which is a great journey full of support and personal fullfillment for you.


A few thoughts about your friend. I don't think that's true. That assumes that all people transitioning were dating "same sex" before and after. I know of a few trans guys who were dating men before and after, some who are bi, some who fit the stereotype of "flaming" (they wear more makeup than I ever did in my whole life), etc. It sounds like your friend is confusing sexual orientation with gender identity (they are separate but some blur it a bit).

Most therapists that approve of medical transition do so because it helps the person's self identity (ego or is it id?). That ability to align my inner mental view with the external shine-and-glossy view. My sexual orientation is separate from those views and do not define my self-identifying view. (if that makes sense -- I think I just confused myself!)

As for paying a high price for transitioning, it does happen. We cannot escape or ignore that. But it isn't the only reaction. I've been lucky. I started transitioning at age 37 and most of my family is/has been supportive. There are elements of family that I don't hear from but then again, I never really heard from them before so it's really no different. I've been lucky with work and my colleagues are overly supportive.

Now, if I could just get the gov't agencies to play along.. life would be grand but I don't want to take away too much of their ability to muck about in the red tape land. :cheesy:

[atomiczombie]

I debated on posting this, but I've decided to since I'm going to embark on T in the coming months.

First, this post is for sharing experiences only. It is NOT to challenge anyone, or to start any kind of debate. I'm just putting this out here; if you want to respond fine, if not, okay.

Couple of nights ago, I spoke to a therapist who is a fully transitioned FTM. We discussed therapy and the transition process among other things, one of which was...the absolute hell....he went through in losing so much by transitioning including most of his therapy clientele. He said it definitely had its price and he was emphatic about therapy, being very prepared, and having a solid support system.

He didn't transition until he was 50, which is my case as well at 53. After our conversation, I gave this some thought and its obvious to me that age or being seasoned with life experiences doesn't make transitioning any easier to go through. Yet, I see people in this subculture on T in droves. I'm amazed at how many people are going through this in their 20s and early 30s! And because it's life altering, I would think it would be a load to handle for someone so young who is apt to lose their family, job, friends or creating a crisis with a ripple effect.

I look at transitioning as life changing. I'm 53 with a lot of "life experiences" and I still believe its going to be very hard for me. That's why it baffles me to see transitioning or gender reassignment among people who are as young as their 20s. A friend of mine once said she thought the reason that younger people are transitioning at the rate and the age they are is because, and (brace yourself for this) they can't accept being gay. Is that even plausible? And what kind of therapist would approve of their hormone therapy or reassignment? Without any firm answers, I personally am not sure I agree.

On the note of acceptance, Atlanta is an international city with about 5-7 million people. You would think it would be a more progressive and embrace diversity of this kind, even with Southern Comfort and so on. But I don't see it that way at all; case in point, the therapist last night and 2 other transgendered folks who have had a time of it here. And I lost 3 friends here who were gay men and didn't want me around because I was transgendered. It's one thing not be accepted in a city this size and quite another to be unacceptable in the LGBT community.

I'm not suggesting that paying a high price for transitioning is the rule. What may be really difficult for some, maybe isn't for others. So I would like to know about the road less traveled from folks who have transitioned and the prices paid emotionally, physically and/or monetarily if you want to share. Or ...the flip side which is a great journey full of support and personal fullfillment for you.

Thanks in advance for your answers and for sharing you're thoughts and/or your experiences.

As you all know, I am not yet transitioned but I also plan to start that in a few months. I suppose I am not as fearful about losing friends and family. Perhaps I am naive about this. I live in California, and just an hour outside of the San Francisco Bay Area. I grew up in the Bay Area which is comparably very liberal with respect to the rest of the country. That aside, my folks are very supportive of me, and other family members as well. The christian conservatives on my mother's side of the family actually like my being trans as opposed to being gay because they think gay is the greater of the 2 evils. (*rolls his eyes* whatever.)

I am not working at the moment as I am on disability, so transitioning while having a job isn't an issue. I guess my biggest fear is the reaction of the Queer community, and whether I will be welcomed and acknowledged as a queer person after transition. The worst kind of discrimination is the kind that comes from within your own community. I consider the queer community to be my home.

It is tragic when gay people or anyone for that matter speculate that the only reason you want to transition is not to be viewed by others as gay. That is simply ignorant and disrespectful. I hope no one says that to me. For some reason I don't anticipate it. Anyhow, Jet I wish you well on your journey. :gimmehug:

[Andrew, Jr.]

I think it is ashame that anyone would want to endure what we go thru to be accepted. I just cannot imagine. And I agree with you Atomic. The queer community is pretty harsh.

[theoddz]

I'm going to throw my couple of coins in to say something about what I PERSONALLY have heard/experienced on the acceptance issue of gay vs. trans point.

I have been told by more than one coworker/acquaintance that they could more readily accept the trans person than they could the homosexual person. One person who actually said this to me (yep, to my face, bless 'em!!) was of the "very religious" sort.....read "Bible Thumper". Both of these 2 people who told me this on 2 separate occasions, knew me prior to my gender transition, and I've noticed a definite difference in the way they treat me now, since my outward appearance and presence is now irrefutably male.

I did ask one of these people why that was and she (my religious coworker, whom I am also good friends with) told me that her interpretation/beliefs of Biblical scripture specifically condemn homosexuality, but she could, however, "wrap her mind around" transexualism because she didn't view that "disorder" as a "choice". She looks at it as a "birth defect" and "correctable" by medical means. Homosexuality, on the other hand, IN HER MIND, was something "a person could choose to change". I think that what she was probably insinuating, was that transexualism was not a "choice", but homosexuality was. I truly adore my coworker, but I soooooo disagreed with her on sooooo many levels. Her attitudes go waaaay back to her upbringing and her religious background (7th Day Adventist), and that issue is very complicated and contradictory, because she has had a horribly difficult life. She has always accepted me, even before my transition, and she is one of the kindest people I've ever met in my life. I think she is gradually changing some of her views, simply from the fact that she has known me and she and I have worked together and been friends before, during and after my transition. I guess we're all continuously learning and that's what gives me hope.

The other person/acquaintance who said, in so many words, the same thing to me about more easily accepting transexualism better than homosexuality is an ass, period. I don't waste my time trying to explain anything to them about this or any other thing, as a matter of fact.

Just my .02 on that.

~Theo~ :bouquet:

[Jet]

I'm sitting intently reading and smiling, sometimes chuckling at your responses. You guys are priceless.

I'm going to add some experiences and fears a bit later; I'd like to see who else is going to respond first.

Thanks bros for responding.

[violaine]

hi. when i lived in new england, i met a family while sitting on some steps downtown in a small western massachusetts town. their child, a little boy around 9 years of age, had been miserable in life before they all went into therapy. his family said that he was insisting all of the time that he was "supposed to be a boy". he knew. very early on. gaining acceptance in his clothing choices, toys, activities, pronoun preference, and so on made all the difference for him to flourish. the parents too when they realised fighting their son was not the answer.

[Jet]

hi. when i lived in new england, i met a family while sitting on some steps downtown in a small western massachusetts town. their child, a little boy around 9 years of age, had been miserable in life before they all went into therapy. his family said that he was insisting all of the time that he was "supposed to be a boy". he knew. very early on. gaining acceptance in his clothing choices, toys, activities, pronoun preference, and so on made all the difference for him to flourish. the parents too.


Belle, I knew around 4 or 5. I hated girl things especially those g*ddamn anklets and patten leather shoes....lololol

BTW, those anklets always slipped into my shoes in the back and I'd scooch em back up with my other foot. It made playing baseball fucking miserable.

[Andrew, Jr.]

Just dropping by to say hello! :tanning:

[Linus]

So I was curious about something: have other guys on T noticed that they are able to cry less? It's something I've noticed more in the last 3-6 months where when seeing an ad by the Humane Society pings me a little but doesn't bring me to near bawling like it used to. It's actually starting to annoy me a bit as there are times when I wouldn't mind a simple cry but cannot. It's like my ability to express emotions has shut down..

[weatherboi]

So I was curious about something: have other guys on T noticed that they are able to cry less? It's something I've noticed more in the last 3-6 months where when seeing an ad by the Humane Society pings me a little but doesn't bring me to near bawling like it used to. It's actually starting to annoy me a bit as there are times when I wouldn't mind a simple cry but cannot. It's like my ability to express emotions has shut down..

I have not started T yet. I am just reading ALOT. I have read this experince by other people during my search for info. I was initially interested in this experince after reading an article about a guy that felt he had lost all touch with his emotional side once he trasitioned. He felt desensitized and was wondering if it was the experince of the T or if this was how most bio men experinced life. Interesting thought, Thanks Linus!!

[Thinker]

So I was curious about something: have other guys on T noticed that they are able to cry less? It's something I've noticed more in the last 3-6 months where when seeing an ad by the Humane Society pings me a little but doesn't bring me to near bawling like it used to. It's actually starting to annoy me a bit as there are times when I wouldn't mind a simple cry but cannot. It's like my ability to express emotions has shut down..

...not the case for me. I'm still a big ol' crybaby!!!!

[Dylan]

Which brings me to another subject: roid rage


'Roid rage is caused by steroids, not testosterone (what you'll be taking). Roid rage is something that happens in the body building community by morons who don't monitor usage. They (usually) don't have a prescription, they buy their steroids over the internet (usually), and a whole slew of other things.

T doesn't cause rages. Depending on the frequency of your shot, your hormones will dip up and down...which will cause some edginess towards the end of your shot period (if you're on a 14day cycle...which is what most people start out on). This can be 'dealt with' by doing half a dose once a week, or by doing a ten day cycle. Your doctor can tell you why your hormones get out of balance in 14 days, or maybe someone here will go into it. You WILL have to figure out how to deal with the two hormones in your body towards the end of your cycle if you stay on a 14day cycle.

Here's the thing about the "T-rage" myth. It's a myth. People want to act like the only people who deal with hormone imbalances are transguys. Fact is, birth control is a hormone, most menopausal women are on hormones, older guys are on hormones, etc. Everybody gets wiggy when their hormones are changing. You'll probably find T actually calms you down (most guys do).


Don't Have Time For More Detail Right Now, Mama Wants Me To Go To Walgreens For Her,
Dylan

[TCB]

So I was curious about something: have other guys on T noticed that they are able to cry less? It's something I've noticed more in the last 3-6 months where when seeing an ad by the Humane Society pings me a little but doesn't bring me to near bawling like it used to. It's actually starting to annoy me a bit as there are times when I wouldn't mind a simple cry but cannot. It's like my ability to express emotions has shut down..


T has not affected my emotions in the slightest. I don't cry any less and I'm not affected by things any less. I think overall it's made me more "mellow" so to speak. As thinker said, I'm still a "Big 'ol baby"

[Greyson]

So I was curious about something: have other guys on T noticed that they are able to cry less? It's something I've noticed more in the last 3-6 months where when seeing an ad by the Humane Society pings me a little but doesn't bring me to near bawling like it used to. It's actually starting to annoy me a bit as there are times when I wouldn't mind a simple cry but cannot. It's like my ability to express emotions has shut down..

Just checking in a bit. I have missed you guys and posting. I have been on T for 18 months now and I still cry. I am a sap for all the holiday music and movies.

[Hudson]

Good answer, but am I correct that T therapy causes rage behavior? My doc and i are going to talk about all this. I wanted to know if the injections changed your mood during any kind phase or period of time.

Hey Jet,

I wanted to add to what some of the other guys have already said. My gender therapist (an FTM on T 28 years) and a doctor I'm talking to both have said that while testosterone does not cause these (negative)things, it can/will possibly enhance what emotion is already there for instance if you're depressed (how many of us haven't been, right?) then it can make you more depressed. Some guys are advised to go on an anti-depressant for a while first before beginning T. Others start and level right on out. Something to consider. I'm not sure if other guys have been told the same but maybe they can weigh in on this too?

[Linus]

Hey Jet,

I wanted to add to what some of the other guys have already said. My gender therapist (an FTM on T 28 years) and a doctor I'm talking to both have said that while testosterone does not cause these (negative)things, it can/will possibly enhance what emotion is already there for instance if you're depressed (how many of us haven't been, right?) then it can make you more depressed. Some guys are advised to go on an anti-depressant for a while first before beginning T. Others start and level right on out. Something to consider. I'm not sure if other guys have been told the same but maybe they can weigh in on this too?


I have never heard that. If anything, I've heard that for many it increases calmness and happiness (on a path that finally leads to where they want to go).

Hudson's Guide on the Myths of T and FTMs: http://www.ftmguide.org/myths.html#1

[Hudson]

I have never heard that. If anything, I've heard that for many it increases calmness and happiness (on a path that finally leads to where they want to go).

Hudson's Guide on the Myths of T and FTMs: http://www.ftmguide.org/myths.html#1


I'm really familiar with Hudson's FTM guide, Linus and it's a great source for resources and personal experiences. I did say many guys just level right out when they go on T (and feel better). However, some do not. I'm simply offering what has been told to me with regard to moods so that Jet (or anyone going on T) can discuss those concerns with his doctor. I think it's safest if those of us who aren't medical professionals or therapists do not advise and reassure others quite so emphatically (and reference internet sources) which I think is problematic in the trans community.

[Linus]

Now this might be a bit of a morbid question but it is a question that I feel is better answered before something happens: do any trans individuals have some kind of a will or burial plans set out on how things will go when you pass on? I guess my concern is that when you're not there, you really can't speak for yourself and how you want to be addressed thus potentially opening the door for those who disapproved to go on about it.

And what about a "living will"? Has anyone planned any of those?

[NotAnAverageGuy]

Linus I am being cremated, if anything happens to me before my parents, they know my last wishes

[Linus]

Just saw this on one of the FTM Yahoo Groups:

A study conducted by the Universities of Zurich and Royal Holloway London
suggests that the association between testosterone and aggression is all in
our heads. Research with 120 subjects indicates that the hormone can
actually encourage fair behavior when it suits one’s own purposes.

Though the hormone is often associated with virility, aggression and risky
behaviors, the latest research challenges this connection. Previous studies
with castrated rodents demonstrated a reduction in combativeness
post-intervention and the findings have been long generalized to humans.
However, neuroscientist, Christoph Eisenegger and economists Ernst Fehr and
Michael Naef believe that their work refutes the rodent-based findings.

"We wanted to verify how the hormone affects social behavior," Dr.
Eisenegger explains. "We were interested in the question: what is truth, and
what is myth?"

Their study is published in the journal,
*Nature*<http://www.nature.com/nature/index.html>and involved a
behavioral experiment with 120 participants. Prior to the
testing, subjects were administered either 0.5 mg of testosterone or a
placebo and then became involved in a partnered negotiation over real money.
Those who with an artificially increased testosterone level generally made
fairer offers than those given the placebos. "The preconception that
testosterone only causes aggressive or egoistic behavior in humans is thus
clearly refuted," concludes Eisenegger.

"In the socially complex human environment, pro-social behavior secures
status, and not aggression," explains Naef. "The interplay between
testosterone and the socially differentiated environment of humans, and not
testosterone itself, probably causes fair or aggressive behavior".
Interestingly, the researchers also found that the misconception that
testosterone causes aggression is deeply entrenched and reflected in
behavioral patterns. Those who believed they received testosterone boosts
made the most obviously unfair offers. Naef suggests, "it appears that it is
not testosterone itself that induces aggressiveness, but rather the myth
surrounding the hormone. In a society where qualities and manners of
behavior are increasingly traced to biological causes and thereby partly
legitimated, this should make us sit up and take notice."

[NotAnAverageGuy]

I do need to read this as well

[Gentle Tiger]

No questions. Just dropping by to say hello. Still making my way around the site. Glad to know you guys are here.

[weatherboi]

No questions. Just dropping by to say hello. Still making my way around the site. Glad to know you guys are here.

Hey Gentle Tiger!! Welcome!!

[Linus]

Hey all.. I was curious if anyone has seen Beautiful Daughters (http://www.logoonline.com/shows/dyn/beautiful_daughters/series.jhtml) from Logo (you can get it on NetFlix)? It was a documentary on the Vagina Monologues version that was done entirely from the TransWoman's perspective. I have to say: very moving. One of the things that was interesting was the comment that transwomen are like immigrants into womandom (as it were).

And I have to say, it's an apt analogy in many ways.

[Gentle Tiger]

Hey all.. I was curious if anyone has seen Beautiful Daughters (http://www.logoonline.com/shows/dyn/beautiful_daughters/series.jhtml) from Logo (you can get it on NetFlix)? It was a documentary on the Vagina Monologues version that was done entirely from the TransWoman's perspective. I have to say: very moving. One of the things that was interesting was the comment that transwomen are like immigrants into womandom (as it were).

And I have to say, it's an apt analogy in many ways.

I just got it from Netflix. We will be looking at it at the next Living Your Truth meeting.

[Linus]

Good show on transgendered kids and parents.

YouTube- transgender children and their parents speak out part 1

YouTube- transgender children and their parents speak out part 2

[Leigh]

Hey guys,

Its thursday and the day has barely begun (literally), but I'm sitting here with so much weighing on My mind and I knew that I could come here and talk to My fellow trans brothers. Some of you may know this already, but for those who don't ....... I officially came out to My parents this past weekend as being FTM, and I guess that I wasn't expecting the reaction that I've gotten from them so far. Usually they are both very supportive (more My mom than anything else), and yet I have been getting almost nothing from them but the silent treatment since sunday evening.

My mom right now is only talking to Me when she absolutely has to, otherwise she is hardly even acknowledging I exist. My dad talks to Me more than My mom is, however its mostly only to complain about what I'm not doing (or what I am doing that he doesn't like). I almost feel like I've turned green, grown a tail and horns and come from outer space ...... its like I'm almost not even welcome here anymore. I don't regret coming out to them, it was something I had to do; however, I am really scared about what may happen in the future if this doesn't change.

I want to hear from My fellow FTM brothers about this .......... what do you guys think of the situation? Should I wait it out? Do I say something? I have no idea where to go from here, so I guess I'm just looking for some guidance (and I knew I could come here). I thank everyone in advance for your responses and support; I'm very thankful to be able to have a place to come to, where I can open up and not have to be afraid of expressing Myself for fear of being judged :)

[Jet]

Hey guys,

Its thursday and the day has barely begun (literally), but I'm sitting here with so much weighing on My mind and I knew that I could come here and talk to My fellow trans brothers. Some of you may know this already, but for those who don't ....... I officially came out to My parents this past weekend as being FTM, and I guess that I wasn't expecting the reaction that I've gotten from them so far. Usually they are both very supportive (more My mom than anything else), and yet I have been getting almost nothing from them but the silent treatment since sunday evening.

My mom right now is only talking to Me when she absolutely has to, otherwise she is hardly even acknowledging I exist. My dad talks to Me more than My mom is, however its mostly only to complain about what I'm not doing (or what I am doing that he doesn't like). I almost feel like I've turned green, grown a tail and horns and come from outer space ...... its like I'm almost not even welcome here anymore. I don't regret coming out to them, it was something I had to do; however, I am really scared about what may happen in the future if this doesn't change.

I want to hear from My fellow FTM brothers about this .......... what do you guys think of the situation? Should I wait it out? Do I say something? I have no idea where to go from here, so I guess I'm just looking for some guidance (and I knew I could come here). I thank everyone in advance for your responses and support; I'm very thankful to be able to have a place to come to, where I can open up and not have to be afraid of expressing Myself for fear of being judged :)

Give them the time and space they need. They'll come around but you can't expect them to okay this when they hardly understand. They're grappling. I think it would be selfish of you to expect more right now. My mother disowned me for a year when I told her I was gay and then came around when she was ready. This is shock, fear, and a lot of unanswered questions for them right now. You have to take this as your responsibility for telling them. Be patient, kind, sensitive to them and deal with it.

[Linus]

Hey guys,

Its thursday and the day has barely begun (literally), but I'm sitting here with so much weighing on My mind and I knew that I could come here and talk to My fellow trans brothers. Some of you may know this already, but for those who don't ....... I officially came out to My parents this past weekend as being FTM, and I guess that I wasn't expecting the reaction that I've gotten from them so far. Usually they are both very supportive (more My mom than anything else), and yet I have been getting almost nothing from them but the silent treatment since sunday evening.

My mom right now is only talking to Me when she absolutely has to, otherwise she is hardly even acknowledging I exist. My dad talks to Me more than My mom is, however its mostly only to complain about what I'm not doing (or what I am doing that he doesn't like). I almost feel like I've turned green, grown a tail and horns and come from outer space ...... its like I'm almost not even welcome here anymore. I don't regret coming out to them, it was something I had to do; however, I am really scared about what may happen in the future if this doesn't change.

I want to hear from My fellow FTM brothers about this .......... what do you guys think of the situation? Should I wait it out? Do I say something? I have no idea where to go from here, so I guess I'm just looking for some guidance (and I knew I could come here). I thank everyone in advance for your responses and support; I'm very thankful to be able to have a place to come to, where I can open up and not have to be afraid of expressing Myself for fear of being judged :)

To add to Ol' Jets comments: you've already grappled and understood the process of this for a while. It's their turn to come to terms with this. My grandmother, who was dead set against this, finally called me by my birthname last summer (took her a year). We often forget that our parents and relatives aren't experiencing life as we are.

Give them the time and space they need and be open for questions. When they do start talking to you expect questions, rage, confusion and such. Be patient as they have a lot to learn and understand. For example, for my grandmother her greatest concern, as a former nurse, (and the concern was echo'd by other family members) was health. They wanted to know whether I was seeing a doctor and how would I know if things were ok. When I explained the whole process and how I see a doc every 3 months and get lab work done then, it set a lot at ease.

I don't know if there is a support group for families of trans individuals in your area (Winnipeg, right?) but if there is, it may be good to get that info in case they want it in the future. One of my aunt's was pro-active about it and found one in Halifax to go to so she could understand more and know that she wasn't the only one with a weird nephew. (although the weirdness is likely due to geekness more than anything else :cheesy: )

[theoddz]

Okay guys.....Gotta question for the fellows/Ladies who have undergone gender reassignment surgery (top surgery/genital reconstruction, etc.,).

Has anyone ventured forward to take the expense of the surgery(s) and related expenses off on your federal income tax as "out of pocket medical expense deductions"?? I want to do this on my 2009 Federal Income Tax, since I had top surgery this past year and had not only the expense of the surgery, but travel expenses, lodging, etc. I plan to try to deduct everything I can for that, which is probably upwards of $10K.

I found this and decided to try to get my tax prep guy to try to get it deducted.

http://www.advocate.com/News/Daily_News/2010/02/03/Gender_Reassignment_Surgery_Tax_Deductible/

~Theo~ :bouquet:

[Linus]

I haven't but if I cannot get my new insurance (company is getting Aetna) to cover, I'm gonna go via the tax deduction. I think a lot of it depends on how much is spent over the course of a year.

[Jet]

I've said before that I'm a male on the inside, fully and deeply. It was/is always terrible to feel one way and look another way. But i feel alienated in the community because it doesn't seem like others feel the same, just based on their own definition of what a trans is. I truly was born in the wrong body, and I don't know if others also feel the same or is there another driving force or impetus classify yourselves as trans.

Input? Without getting complicated or feeling like you have to be politically correct. How about we set aside the definition of trans and just talk about what you feel inside your body.

[Linus]

I've said before that I'm a male on the inside, fully and deeply. It was/is always terrible to feel one way and look another way. But i feel alienated in the community because it doesn't seem like others feel the same, just based on their own definition of what a trans is. I truly was born in the wrong body, and I don't know if others also feel the same or is there another driving force or impetus classify yourselves as trans.

Input? Without getting complicated or feeling like you have to be politically correct. How about we set aside the definition of trans and just talk about what you feel inside your body.


I think that varies from person-to-person and what experiences they have so I don't know if you'll find someone who feels exactly as you. I don't know if my "driving force" or impetus is as strong as yours (then again, I tend to be slow at decisions to ensure I don't second-guess myself down the road) but it took me a long time to realize I was born in the wrong body. (I didn't really understand what it meant to be trans until later in life).

I had inklings at a young age (when viewing myself from a day-dream point of view it was a male view -- largely shaped by James Bond, Charlie's Angels and the Facts of Life) and didn't really become aware of that fact until I hit my mid-teens. (when I realized that I never wanted to be a princess but rather the prince in many of the fantasy/sci-fi novels I read at the time). Even short story writing in school I envisioned myself as the male hero. I never talked about this internal view of myself to anyone because I was afraid of being called crazy or weird (I already had felt like a loner and outsider to everyone else -- I just didn't know why).

With it, I hid my desire for women, especially those who are rather feminine while still very strong and independent. I had learned to push that away and hide it most of my life although internally it was a constant battle between what I saw myself as and what I was presenting as. I tried to ignore the internal but there are few times that it lead to some close disasters. Once I came clean and decided to match the inside with the outside I felt at peace finally with me. Even with my weight gain (due entirely to my lazy ass) I'm still ok and love who I see in the mirror now. This wasn't something I did before and I often hated what I saw in the mirror.

DSM V may classify me as a mental case but I'm a happily blissful one at that.

Hopefully I answered what you were looking for. If I misunderstood, please let me know. :)

[Jet]

I think that varies from person-to-person and what experiences they have so I don't know if you'll find someone who feels exactly as you. I don't know if my "driving force" or impetus is as strong as yours (then again, I tend to be slow at decisions to ensure I don't second-guess myself down the road) but it took me a long time to realize I was born in the wrong body. (I didn't really understand what it meant to be trans until later in life).

I had inklings at a young age (when viewing myself from a day-dream point of view it was a male view -- largely shaped by James Bond, Charlie's Angels and the Facts of Life) and didn't really become aware of that fact until I hit my mid-teens. (when I realized that I never wanted to be a princess but rather the prince in many of the fantasy/sci-fi novels I read at the time). Even short story writing in school I envisioned myself as the male hero. I never talked about this internal view of myself to anyone because I was afraid of being called crazy or weird (I already had felt like a loner and outsider to everyone else -- I just didn't know why).

With it, I hid my desire for women, especially those who are rather feminine while still very strong and independent. I had learned to push that away and hide it most of my life although internally it was a constant battle between what I saw myself as and what I was presenting as. I tried to ignore the internal but there are few times that it lead to some close disasters. Once I came clean and decided to match the inside with the outside I felt at peace finally with me. Even with my weight gain (due entirely to my lazy ass) I'm still ok and love who I see in the mirror now. This wasn't something I did before and I often hated what I saw in the mirror.

DSM V may classify me as a mental case but I'm a happily blissful one at that.

Hopefully I answered what you were looking for. If I misunderstood, please let me know. :)

That's exactly how i feel and have felt in my life. My feelings were contrary to my body. Thanks Linus for sharing, it's what i was looking for.

[alex k]

in all my dreams i was the bold handsome man. in real life i was the one who held doors open, who walked on the outside of the kerb,who carried bags. i was as much of a boy as my brothers at least on the inside. can't ever remember a time when i looked in the mirror and thought 'thats me' Thi nk the reflections song in mulan was written just for me.

[Jet]

Thanks to Linus and Greyson for the PMs, link and input. Guess I don't feel so alone in my thinking anymore.

Thanks again,
jet

[TCB]

Hey All,
I wanted to share with you a cool radio program about a variety of trans topics and issues. Great listen, check it out :)

http://kboo.fm/GenderBlender

[Linus]

Hey everyone...

I just received this from CNN:


Hi there,

Since you previously contributed to our Transgendered Stories assignment on CNN iReport, I thought you’d like to know about a new assignment that just launched. To coincide with the CNN documentary “Her Name Was Steven,” we’re looking for transgendered, transsexual or questioning individuals to share a message with the world. What would you like others to know about you and your experience?

The assignment is simple: Just put a message that you would like others to know about you on a sign and take a self-portrait holding it up.
You can find the assignment here: http://www.ireport.com/ir-topic-stories.jspa?topicId=417959

We’re accepting submissions until April 9. Please feel free to pass the word along! We look forward to seeing your submissions.

Best,
Katie Hawkins-Gaar

p.s. “Her Name Was Steven” airs on CNN this Saturday and Sunday at 8 and 11 p.m. ET. You can find out more here: http://www.cnn.com/CNN/Programs/presents/


So, I'm working on what I'll post up but if you want to post your own picture with a message, do so. It'd be nice to see so many positive and supportive options out there.

[Linus]

So I upload my pix and comments. You can see them here: http://www.ireport.com/docs/DOC-418506

[Jet]

So I upload my pix and comments. You can see them here: http://www.ireport.com/docs/DOC-418506

I just took a look. Very nice.

[Linus]

Thanks for all the comments everyone. Weirdly enough, I got an email from the same editor this morning asking me further about my iReport and would I be ok with my real name being used and what phone number to call me at if they have further questions.
:|

[Greyson]

Thanks for all the comments everyone. Weirdly enough, I got an email from the same editor this morning asking me further about my iReport and would I be ok with my real name being used and what phone number to call me at if they have further questions.
:|

Nice job Linus. I like your well chosen message, words. I see you. I am a better person for having seen you, your words these past few years.

[EthanGaBoy]

Linus, you are awesome man. Thank you for being that brave!

ETHAN
So I upload my pix and comments. You can see them here: http://www.ireport.com/docs/DOC-418506

[Corkey]

Tonight on CNN a documentary called "Her name was Steven" 8 PM eastern.

[Soon]

Tonight on CNN a documentary called "Her name was Steven" 8 PM eastern.

Thanks--it's on now here and is very interesting.

[The Oopster]

Tonight on CNN a documentary called "Her name was Steven" 8 PM eastern.

For those that missed that showing it is on at other times so just search for it if you can ... it is showing at 11pm pacific today, sat and i did notice atleast one showing tomorrow, Sunday

[Thinker]

For those that missed that showing it is on at other times so just search for it if you can ... it is showing at 11pm pacific today, sat and i did notice atleast one showing tomorrow, Sunday

It's on again on Sunday at 8 pm (eastern time) and 11 pm (eastern time). They may run it again a time or two after that.

Remember that tonight/tomorrow morning is time change: spring forward.

[Linus]

And whatever you do, don't go to CNN and check out the article on it (or rather the comments to the article). They are vile and hurtful.

[Jet]

And whatever you do, don't go to CNN and check out the article on it (or rather the comments to the article). They are vile and hurtful.

Dayum, I have not checked out the response, but i'm sorry. i guess just being satisfied with our own self is enough and that's what matters. here's to you, bro for having guts to put it out there.

parker

[Logicaly]

First time posting in this thread, but been reading along quietly as I contemplate where I want to go with my life...

I know who I am, and what I am. I am male, but very much retain my queer identity at the same time. It is what works for me.

That being said, I have finally made the decision that I am ready to start seeing a therapist, and taking T so that I can move forward with who I am.

First question, how did you go about finding a therapist? I'm in the San Francisco bay area, so I am sure I have a lot of resources available to me, but I am also very secluded, and have for most of my life been a hermit, so I am very unaware of what my resources are around me.

Second question, has anyone looked into an alternative to shots? I have such a huge issue with needles, of any kind, that it is a big deal breaker for me unfortunately. I know there are options such as the patch, or a gel. Does anyone have any experience with these? I've been doing a little bit of reading up on them and it seems they might be viable options for me.

[Linus]

First time posting in this thread, but been reading along quietly as I contemplate where I want to go with my life...

I know who I am, and what I am. I am male, but very much retain my queer identity at the same time. It is what works for me.

That being said, I have finally made the decision that I am ready to start seeing a therapist, and taking T so that I can move forward with who I am.

First question, how did you go about finding a therapist? I'm in the San Francisco bay area, so I am sure I have a lot of resources available to me, but I am also very secluded, and have for most of my life been a hermit, so I am very unaware of what my resources are around me.

Second question, has anyone looked into an alternative to shots? I have such a huge issue with needles, of any kind, that it is a big deal breaker for me unfortunately. I know there are options such as the patch, or a gel. Does anyone have any experience with these? I've been doing a little bit of reading up on them and it seems they might be viable options for me.

In regards to your first question, if it were me I'd start here: http://www.tgsf.org/ they likely have the resources and contacts you need.

As for the 2nd, once the 1st is addressed they can look into other mechanisms for getting T. I've heard that patch based T tends to be a "lower" dosage (lower being a relative term). There are also "pellets", although these are more expensive they last for 3-4 months at a time (not sure yet if the US allows for those yet). I don't know much about the gel other than it has to be done daily.

[Linus]

I was reading a POC TransWoman's blog (http://transgriot.blogspot.com/2010/03/trans-does-not-equal-white.html) and noticed that she is very right. CNN, although doing some decent work on presenting trans individuals, is leaving out a huge part of the community: trans individuals of colour. My own privilege blinded me to the fact that this part is missing. The reality is they often face greater socio-economic challenges that are otherwise missed by white trans individuals. From my conversations with some trans men of colour they face new challenges (I've heard of trans men being stopped more than white trans men). I honestly do not know of specific challenges that POC trans women face but I would imagine it is similar to WOC and yet, amplified.

Why is it that in our own trans community we ignore this part of the community? It's not a small part (at least not here in NYC in the groups I've been in).

[SFFemmePrincess]

So as a follow up to Logic's post... First thank you Linus for that link, we checked it out, and while their mission statement says they are open to people of all gender presentations, they seem to me more geared toward TransWomen. But I did do a little research and found a couple of clinics. Does anyone in the bay area have any experience with the Trans services at the Tom Waddell Clinic, The Lyon Martin clinic, or with New Leaf counseling? I do have a friend that goes to New Leaf and he is really getting a lot out of it, but any other insight would be great. Also, I have done a lot of reading, but am I correct in that the first step he should take in the actual process would be finding a therapist? Are we on the right track?

[Thinker]

but am I correct in that the first step he should take in the actual process would be finding a therapist? Are we on the right track?

I think that is the best first step. That'll help him get his thoughts in order and gain some perspective, and it will also be invaluable down the road if/when he pursues medical and/or surgical intervention.

Good luck!

[Greyson]

Also, I have done a lot of reading, but am I correct in that the first step he should take in the actual process would be finding a therapist? Are we on the right track?

Hi Rainbow and Logically. We met at the Winter Ball dance. I live in the East Bay and have been through this process. I have used private insurance and out of pocket for my transition. To my knowledge New Leaf is a decent resource. New Leaf is one of the newer resources in the Bay Area and it is specific to the East Bay. Most of the resources are in the City. A few months back the Pacific Center in Berkeley started a peer support group for Transmen that meets on Wednesday evening.

If you like, send me a pm here with you contact information and we can talk some more. Good luck.

[Leigh]

I wanted to come in and say hi to all of My fellow trans brothers, not only to see how everyone is doing but also to give a quick update on how things are doing. I came out to My parents and didn't realize that My mom was going through alot, so whatever few days of silence that occured had nothing to do with Me so everything now is all good :)

I found out from a trans friend here that a place called Klinic, a community health care center, has a trans clinic with a doctor who deals with all trans patients. I called and talked to them, and got an intake appointment with the doctor's assistant in April to see if I can get in to be this guy's patient. His name is Dr. Whetter and if all goes well not only could he become My family doctor but he could also help Me to begin My transition. I'm optimistic about things but once the intake is done (April 16th) then I will see how things go ........ I'll make sure to keep everyone updated when things happen, and what he says :thumbsup:

[Linus]

Glad to hear it turned out well in the end, Braedon.

I got a surprise call today. CNN called to talk to me further about my iReport! :| I called the intern back so we'll see where, if anywhere, it leads but I gotta admit.. kinda exciting. :cheesy:

[Leigh]

I am too Linus :)

[Andrea]

The following article titled Falling in Love with a Transgender Man was posted on O magazine (Oprah):

http://www.oprah.com/relationships/Falling-in-Love-with-a-Transgender-Man/1

Well written and beautifully expressed.

Andrea

[Linus]

Well, I just spoke to the Intern at CNN. Very nice conversation and he said that the story should be up by the end of the week or next week. He'll send me a link when all is said and done. Whee! :)

[Logicaly]

So here is my question. For those of you that where working when you started your transition, how did you handle it? Did you explain to your employer what was going on or just do it and if any questions came up then answer them?

I'm worried about the reaction my employer will have and as well how to handle it with my customers as I have a lot of public interaction since I'm in charge of all sales for the company.

[Linus]

So here is my question. For those of you that where working when you started your transition, how did you handle it? Did you explain to your employer what was going on or just do it and if any questions came up then answer them?

I'm worried about the reaction my employer will have and as well how to handle it with my customers as I have a lot of public interaction since I'm in charge of all sales for the company.


I face customers regularly (as a technical trainer, I can't really escape that). The first step I took was talk to my direct manager and let them know what was going on. I then went to HR and spoke to them about how to address it with colleagues. Since many of us work out of homes and only meet now and again, I have it slightly easier (I rarely have to share a bathroom with colleagues). Together with HR, I put out an email that detailed how I wanted to be referred to (name and gender) and a FAQ on things to expect during my transition (FTM).

HR left the choice to me if people had questions. I'm pretty open and the only question I really got was how to pronounce my name (Linus can be prounounced as Lie-nus or Lyn-us and since we're IT both were fairly common, depending on whether coming from the US or Europe).

The choice of whether to transition and then address it or address it first depends, IMO, on the company and culture of the company as well as size. I'm lucky in that my company already has gender discrimination written into the corporate policy and it's fairly strictly adhered to. I can send you the FAQ if you want to use it as well as a copy of my letter I sent if it helps you (just PM me your email).

[Soft*Silver]

tyra's show today is on transgendered children...

[Logicaly]

See, here is the issue im running in to. I work for a very small company, maybe 30 employees max. We have no HR, and the owner does basically what he wants and feels is right, even if it is not. My co-workers, not an issue, some of them already know of my desire and are totally okay with it. My biggest fear at this point for me, is that my boss can find a way to fire me.

[Andrea]

See, here is the issue im running in to. I work for a very small company, maybe 30 employees max. We have no HR, and the owner does basically what he wants and feels is right, even if it is not. My co-workers, not an issue, some of them already know of my desire and are totally okay with it. My biggest fear at this point for me, is that my boss can find a way to fire me.

A good resource is www.transgenderlawcenter.org. It is free and they are wonderful about responding to questions.

Andrea

[Linus]

http://transgriot.blogspot.com/2010/04/us-federal-court-declares-denial-of.html

Now this is interesting. Although the court case is for trans individuals who are in prison, the impact could be something beyond those borders and potentially on a national level (i.e., insurance companies will not be able to put in writing that SRS treatments are not allowed).

[Linus]

Finally was posted: http://www.cnn.com/2010/LIVING/04/14/transgender.irpt/index.html?hpt=C1 (see picture #4) :cheesy:

[Corkey]

Finally was posted: http://www.cnn.com/2010/LIVING/04/14/transgender.irpt/index.html?hpt=C1 (see picture #4) :cheesy:

Way to represent my friend! Right On!

[Greyson]

Finally was posted: http://www.cnn.com/2010/LIVING/04/14/transgender.irpt/index.html?hpt=C1 (see picture #4) :cheesy:

Kudos Linus. Thank you. Yes, you are a Human Being.:mountie:

[Linus]

Heh.. Thanks. Ya. I wish others saw that (and based on the comments below the story it is obviously missed).

[Jet]

Good going Linus. That took a lot.

[The Oopster]

http://www.butchfemmeplanet.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1184

Hey guys!

I started a top surgery thread! I would appreciate everyone stopping by and giving there 2 cents!

Thanks

[DamonK]

[COLOR="Navy"]

1) When did you begin feeling like you were different?

2) Did you always know that you should have been born the opposite sex, or did that come abit later though you always knew you were different?

3) When did you decide to come out, and how did you come out?

[COLOR]

I knew I was different when I was 4 and threw a fit because my dad and bro could work outside without a shirt in the middle of a scorching TX summer, but I couldn't run around without a shirt.

I always knew I was different. It wasn't until after I came out that I knew I should have been born a male. That came around the age of 21.

Knowing how my bio family reacted when I came out as gay, I know I will not come out as trans to them. If they find out, so be it. And if they don't like it, so be it. I don't need their approval or acceptance. The way I see it, for ME and ME alone, they gave me life, if them holding on to their "daughter" is the highest act of respect, so to speak, I can pay them, then I will do it until they are no longer here.

[Linus]

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/04/100428142246.htm

I'd love to get the full research paper to understand it greater but this does sound interesting in some ways.

[Dylan]

I have a question for the transguys. I'm NOT asking anyone but transguys.

I'd like to know what y'all think about a transguy who is read as male, who wants to be read as male, who has had top surgery, and who is on hormones...but yet uses the women's restroom (on occasion), and who gets ticked off when women in the restroom get upset that he's in there.


Thanks,
Dylan

[Billy]

I have a question for the transguys. I'm NOT asking anyone but transguys.

I'd like to know what y'all think about a transguy who is read as male, who wants to be read as male, who has had top surgery, and who is on hormones...but yet uses the women's restroom (on occasion), and who gets ticked off when women in the restroom get upset that he's in there.


Thanks,
Dylan

I haven't been in the womans room in almost 4 years ....And to Me this person should stay out of the womans room as well . This person is male and there will come a time when someone is really going to get upset with him using the womans room ..And why bring on the attention...I wonder about folks sometimes ..

[weatherboi]

hey Dylan

I think he is setting himself up for failure with the inconsistency. What is his reason for using it...safety?

Had one bad bathroom experience in South Carolina!
Grant




I have a question for the transguys. I'm NOT asking anyone but transguys.

I'd like to know what y'all think about a transguy who is read as male, who wants to be read as male, who has had top surgery, and who is on hormones...but yet uses the women's restroom (on occasion), and who gets ticked off when women in the restroom get upset that he's in there.


Thanks,
Dylan

[Jet]

I start t on tuesday

[Dylan]

Grant,

I don't know the reason for his using it. I just heard the story about how he gave the lady (who complained) a bunch of shit and laughed at her.

Personally, I find it completely disrespectful, and honestly, I kind of wanted to kick his ass. I mean, A) I don't understand why you would pound your fist about being male only to then use the ladies' room and B) I don't understand why you would intentionally make women uncomfortable.

And frankly, it pisses me off. I don't know exactly WHY it pisses me off, but it does. I mean, I can't imagine any other man I would *allow* to use the women's room, and then give women shit when they get upset that there's a man in the restroom. And I also don't understand WHY you would want to use the women's restroom EXCEPT to start shit.


Dylan

P.S. It pisses me off in the same way butches who claim they don't 'clean', because that's 'women's work', but then refuse to 'take out the trash', because they're women too...you know what I mean?

[atomiczombie]

I start t on tuesday

Awesome bud! Let us know how it goes for you.

[Linus]

I have a question for the transguys. I'm NOT asking anyone but transguys.

I'd like to know what y'all think about a transguy who is read as male, who wants to be read as male, who has had top surgery, and who is on hormones...but yet uses the women's restroom (on occasion), and who gets ticked off when women in the restroom get upset that he's in there.


Thanks,
Dylan

Grant,

I don't know the reason for his using it. I just heard the story about how he gave the lady (who complained) a bunch of shit and laughed at her.

Personally, I find it completely disrespectful, and honestly, I kind of wanted to kick his ass. I mean, A) I don't understand why you would pound your fist about being male only to then use the ladies' room and B) I don't understand why you would intentionally make women uncomfortable.

And frankly, it pisses me off. I don't know exactly WHY it pisses me off, but it does. I mean, I can't imagine any other man I would *allow* to use the women's room, and then give women shit when they get upset that there's a man in the restroom. And I also don't understand WHY you would want to use the women's restroom EXCEPT to start shit.


Dylan

P.S. It pisses me off in the same way butches who claim they don't 'clean', because that's 'women's work', but then refuse to 'take out the trash', because they're women too...you know what I mean?

Seriously, I'd want to kick his ass. He's just being a jerk. Do you know where the story originates from? The reason I ask is I wonder if it's a place that has gender protections on washrooms. He may be abusing it.



I start t on tuesday

Congrats, Jet! You must be excited! Do you know if it will be shots or cream?

[Thinker]

And I also don't understand WHY you would want to use the women's restroom EXCEPT to start shit.

My sentiments exactly.



I start t on tuesday

I'm happy for you, Parker. Let us know how it goes.

[Rufusboi]

I have a question for the transguys. I'm NOT asking anyone but transguys.

I'd like to know what y'all think about a transguy who is read as male, who wants to be read as male, who has had top surgery, and who is on hormones...but yet uses the women's restroom (on occasion), and who gets ticked off when women in the restroom get upset that he's in there.


Thanks,
Dylan

Dylan - I have not been in a women's restroom in years. I'm not on T but have had top surgery. I pass as male and my presence in the women's restroom causes huge problems for me. I've been confronted, accosted, grabbed and slung and had security called on me. I finally just stopped going in many many years ago. Men don't make eye contact and never confront or question. They are all so homophobic they just keep their heads down. So I disagree with his choice to use the women's bathroom even on occasion because 1. I think it has to cause problems for him and 2. it upsets the women who are in there. Women are very protective of that space.

Rufus

[Liam]

I have a question for the transguys. I'm NOT asking anyone but transguys.

I'd like to know what y'all think about a transguy who is read as male, who wants to be read as male, who has had top surgery, and who is on hormones...but yet uses the women's restroom (on occasion), and who gets ticked off when women in the restroom get upset that he's in there.


Thanks,
Dylan

I think he is asking for trouble.

[Greyson]

I start t on tuesday



Parker, best wishes. Turning yet another page in your journey. Keep us posted.

[theoddz]

I start t on tuesday

Congrats to you, Parker!!! :winky:

You're going to feel so much better. (I did, so I hope you do, too.)

Let us know how it goes, eh?? :)

~Theo~ :bouquet:

[Greyson]

I have a question for the transguys. I'm NOT asking anyone but transguys.

I'd like to know what y'all think about a transguy who is read as male, who wants to be read as male, who has had top surgery, and who is on hormones...but yet uses the women's restroom (on occasion), and who gets ticked off when women in the restroom get upset that he's in there.


Thanks,
Dylan

I think this transguy is getting some sort of pay off out of his choice to use the women's restroom. I cannot read his mind, be sure of his intention. Does he do it to stir it up or perhaps he finds some sort of perceived safety in using the women's restroom?

Frankly, he may not even be aware of why he does it. Is he struggling internally with his gender identity? Is he is still trying to figure out where his gender identity fits, lands? I do not think it is okay to use hostility when taking unwilling, participants in pursuit of one's perceived safety, gender journey, and/or need to stir it up.

[Billy]

I start t on tuesday

Congrats to you ! :)

[theoddz]

Grant,

I don't know the reason for his using it. I just heard the story about how he gave the lady (who complained) a bunch of shit and laughed at her.

Personally, I find it completely disrespectful, and honestly, I kind of wanted to kick his ass. I mean, A) I don't understand why you would pound your fist about being male only to then use the ladies' room and B) I don't understand why you would intentionally make women uncomfortable.

And frankly, it pisses me off. I don't know exactly WHY it pisses me off, but it does. I mean, I can't imagine any other man I would *allow* to use the women's room, and then give women shit when they get upset that there's a man in the restroom. And I also don't understand WHY you would want to use the women's restroom EXCEPT to start shit.


Dylan

P.S. It pisses me off in the same way butches who claim they don't 'clean', because that's 'women's work', but then refuse to 'take out the trash', because they're women too...you know what I mean?

Dylan, I totally agree with what you said above. I, too, find it incredibly disrespectful and question what this guy's real motivation is in doing this.

Of course, this world is made of many kinds of people, and there are those out there who do and say shit just for the "shock value". These kinds of people are going to be "in your face" about everything. Pop always calls them "shit disturbers". At the core of it, however, is just a blatant disrespect for other people....and himself.

I would think, too, that if he's had his gender markers changed on his identification, he'd be in a hell of a pickle if these women decide to call the law. I wonder, then, if he'd demand to be put in the women's clink??? :| (I know there are other issues associated with jailing a transperson and all....this was just an amusing thought)

~Theo~ :bouquet:

[theoddz]

Speaking of jailing a transperson, do any of you fellows/Ladies know how they handle that, especially if you've had your gender markers changed?? I've just always kinda wondered. :|

~Theo~ :bouquet:

[Linus]

Speaking of jailing a transperson, do any of you fellows/Ladies know how they handle that, especially if you've had your gender markers changed?? I've just always kinda wondered. :|

~Theo~ :bouquet:

See this link to get an idea: http://www.pamshouseblend.com/diary/15940/president-obama-a-transgender-veteran-is-not-impersonator-it-or-shim

[Dylan]

Speaking of jailing a transperson, do any of you fellows/Ladies know how they handle that, especially if you've had your gender markers changed?? I've just always kinda wondered. :|

~Theo~ :bouquet:

I don't know about other states, but here in the Great State O', you're put in women's prison. You also have to wear a bra (even if you've had top surgery), women's underwear, and if they really hate you...a dress. You don't get your hormones, either.

And this is even if you've had top and lower surgery (metoid...don't know about phallo)

Texas is especially heinous


Dylan

[Linus]

Has anyone else watched the documentary called "My Mums used to be Men"? I'm watching it now on BBC-A and it's a really good piece, especially since it's from the little girl's view.

[Rufusboi]

Has anyone else watched the documentary called "My Mums used to be Men"? I'm watching it now on BBC-A and it's a really good piece, especially since it's from the little girl's view.

Yes, I have watched it. The little girl is great. She is very insightful and thoughtful and loves her parents. Its a great show to watch. Rufus

[The Oopster]

I start t on tuesday

congrats on this milestone!

[Dylan]

A couple of other questions:

1. Have you found that people expect you to be more in control of your reactions/emotions to things? I get excited about some things, and I'm noticing there's a reprimand accompanied with getting too excited.

2. Have you found that (if you're read as straight) more people assume it's acceptable to make homophobic jokes and comments in your presence?


Thanks,
Dylan

[theoddz]

A couple of other questions:

1. Have you found that people expect you to be more in control of your reactions/emotions to things? I get excited about some things, and I'm noticing there's a reprimand accompanied with getting too excited.

2. Have you found that (if you're read as straight) more people assume it's acceptable to make homophobic jokes and comments in your presence?


Thanks,
Dylan

Hey Dylan,

1. Yes, I think people within the so-called "lines" of binary hetero-norm expect ALL males, and those who are perceived as male, to "man up" and not be emotional. I think society frowns upon men for owning and expressing emotions, period.

2. Yes, I'm sad to say that, yes, for some odd reason, it's been MY experience that men, in particular, seem to feel that they have license to spout all kinds of bad taste "jokes", comments and such in front of other (and perceived) males. I won't tolerate that, for my part. Same thing with misogynistic or racial disrespect. I will call it out and let the offender know that that sort of thing is not appreciated. Unless more of us do that and have the courage to stand our (moral) ground by calling it out, then it just goes on. Lack of objection to that sort of thing is, in my mind, the same as condoning it.

~Theo~ :bouquet:

[Liam]

A couple of other questions:

1. Have you found that people expect you to be more in control of your reactions/emotions to things? I get excited about some things, and I'm noticing there's a reprimand accompanied with getting too excited.

2. Have you found that (if you're read as straight) more people assume it's acceptable to make homophobic jokes and comments in your presence?


Thanks,
Dylan

1. No.
2. Yes.

[atomiczombie]

It's been 2 weeks now on Androgel and the only thing I have noticed is my skin is a little more oily than usual. Not that I expect any real changes this early, mind you. It's odd, because the increase in the sebum has actually made the skin on my face softer than before. Kinda weird.

[The Oopster]

A couple of other questions:

1. Have you found that people expect you to be more in control of your reactions/emotions to things? I get excited about some things, and I'm noticing there's a reprimand accompanied with getting too excited.

2. Have you found that (if you're read as straight) more people assume it's acceptable to make homophobic jokes and comments in your presence?


Thanks,
Dylan

1. i found that people expected my emotional response to stay the same and it hasn't, it has shifted. I still get a bit teary eyed when I see something that tugs at my heart but not like i use to. I'm much calmer and just don't rile as easily

2. I don't get the homophobic jokes but I do get more of the bad taste jokes and comments.

[Billy]

A couple of other questions:

1. Have you found that people expect you to be more in control of your reactions/emotions to things? I get excited about some things, and I'm noticing there's a reprimand accompanied with getting too excited.

2. Have you found that (if you're read as straight) more people assume it's acceptable to make homophobic jokes and comments in your presence?


Thanks,
Dylan

1. I have changed so much since I started 3 years ago ...I am very calm , focused and happy , with that said I know in the beginning if I where to get mad or upset the response was , you need to calm down that T is working overtime ..:| No the T is not working overtime your just a idiot ...:)


2.That hasn't changed , they make them either way ...

[theoddz]

It's been 2 weeks now on Androgel and the only thing I have noticed is my skin is a little more oily than usual. Not that I expect any real changes this early, mind you. It's odd, because the increase in the sebum has actually made the skin on my face softer than before. Kinda weird.

AZ, when I first started out on T in early 2007, I was started on subdermal pellets (Testopel) and Testim cream. Testim is the other T gel besides Adrogel. I found it to be okay, but the thing is, you really don't know how much of that stuff your body is actually absorbing. It all depends, you know, on how you spread the cream and how well your skin absorbs it.

One thing you may notice early on is that your perspiration and urine odor will get stronger. You may also get a bit of acne with it, but it's hard to tell if it's true "hormonal acne" or if your skin is just sensitive to the components in the gel. Testim, if I remember correctly, has a large percentage of alcohol in the gel. My skin got a little rashy with it.

Oh, and I don't really know if the Testopel pellets really did a lot or not. As far as I know, the FDA hasn't really approved subdermal T pellets for use in transsexual men. The big reason I quit those was because of the doctor I was seeing, the expense and the fact that I got the strangest feeling that I couldn't trust him to give me the amount of T (pellets) he was charging me for. Since they put those pellets under the skin on your buttocks, you really can't see what they're doing or even if they are implanting pellets at all. This doctor charged by the pellet, too....to the tune of $60/pellet, and when he kept telling me I needed MORE pellets to get enough of the T to get my body into transition, well......my red flags went up. The last time I saw this guy, before I switched to injectable T, he told me I needed 6-8 of these pellets, AT LEAST....and they only lasted 3-4 months at a time, PLUS the cost of the Testim gel. That's a lot of money, and I had the extra expense of having to travel to Los Angeles and back here to Vegas every time, so it just made more sense to go injectable.

I know you didn't ask about the pellets, but there might be a guy reading this who is thinking about using the pellets, or (*GASP*) that same doctor in L.A., and I think it's important to get the information about my experience with that out there.

Good luck with this!!! :winky:

~Theo~ :bouquet:

[Linus]

It's interesting that you write about the pellets. I remember a couple of years ago going to the Philly Trans Health conference and saw the presentation on them by a FTM doctor. I knew they were more expensive and I thought they gave a consistent release of T, moreso than shots. It's a shame that it didn't work as well as it should have.

[The Oopster]

It's been 2 weeks now on Androgel and the only thing I have noticed is my skin is a little more oily than usual. Not that I expect any real changes this early, mind you. It's odd, because the increase in the sebum has actually made the skin on my face softer than before. Kinda weird.

I think there are definite benefits to a person using the gel or cream. I definitely think its the place a lot peopel should start even though they don't. However with that said do relize that the results will be very very very very very slow. I was on the cream and on the highest dose my dr would give at the end for 3 years and there were definite changes but not all the changes I wanted. I passed like 95 % of the time. My voice had lowered but if I got nervouse or excited it betrayed me, I had a scattering of facial hair but very little, and I still had that dreaded monthly vistitor.

I do think i had an increase of acne, especially each time a dose was increased but that doesn't seem to be as much of an issue anymore.

Changes I saw were being a bit calmer, i have a very good crop of inner thigh hair ... which was where I applied it half the time, my voice had lowered, and there were some over all body changes.

What I liked about it most was I got to slowly see how my body reacted to it and build up over time til I got to a point that I felt my body would react favorable to the shots. Which to the most part it has. I use to get the worst pms very emotional and all over the place and now i'm extremely even keel. I have had problems with high iron and red blood count, between phlobotomies and lowering my dose I think I'm at the right level for me.

every 10 days I do .3 ml ... some times I go a little longer or shorter but i don't seem to get the mood swings that other people get. If I go 2 weeks i can tell i need it but still not like others.

Now if you have had some of your inner anatomy remove you may have better results then I.

Just want you to be patient and enjoy the journey even if it doesn't quite go as fast as you would like.

[Thinker]

A couple of other questions:

1. Have you found that people expect you to be more in control of your reactions/emotions to things? I get excited about some things, and I'm noticing there's a reprimand accompanied with getting too excited.

2. Have you found that (if you're read as straight) more people assume it's acceptable to make homophobic jokes and comments in your presence?


Thanks,
Dylan

1. I have not noticed that *others* expect that of me, but I can think of a few occasions when *I* curbed reactions to a level I thought more......I don't know......."acceptable"......??? Don't know the best word to use there...

2. Oh yeah......for sure. And not just homophobic.......racist, size-ist, and misogynistic, as well. And, yes, I do find a way to let the offender know his brand of humor isn't funny, appropriate, or considerate. I've gotten pretty deep into it with a couple of guys......one for calling a dealer friend of mine "fat boy" and another for making sexual comments to another dealer friend.

I'm amazed at how incredibly disgusting/rude/mean/cruel/etc...some people are. Blows my friggin' mind!

[theoddz]

It's interesting that you write about the pellets. I remember a couple of years ago going to the Philly Trans Health conference and saw the presentation on them by a FTM doctor. I knew they were more expensive and I thought they gave a consistent release of T, moreso than shots. It's a shame that it didn't work as well as it should have.

I think it was more that I wasn't sure I could trust this doctor to give me what I was paying for, yanno?? I mean, when you're laying on your tummy on a table and you can't see what the doc is actually implanting in your butt, well, how do know/trust that you're getting what you're paying for?? Yes, this doctor did initially sell me on the fact that pellets give a more steady release of T, as opposed to shots, that have "peaks and valleys", so to speak, and on the fact that you don't have to deal with frequency and pain of injections, but to this day, injectable T is still what is regarded as "the gold standard" for transmen and transitioning.

I have to say that the last time I had pellets put in, in early summer of '07, the doctor told me that he was going to "up my dose" to 6 pellets, because the 3 he had given me, nearly 4 months previous, had no effect on me. Like I said, he charged $60 per pellet, which included the implantation procedure. Anyway, I go in the exam room with him and I happen to see the little stainless steel table with the sterile trocar kit used to implant these pellets. Also, there were 2 small vials there with 1 pellet per vial in them. I asked him why there weren't 6 pellets there. He told me, "Oh, those are higher milligram pellets, because I get them compounded from the pharmacy". :|

He charged me for 6 pellets, and as far as I could tell, I only got 2. Well, you can understand how and why I felt like he wasn't being honest with me. G-d only knows if I got what I actually paid for the first time, because what he had given me the first time had absolutely NO effect. I didn't like or trust his office staff, either. Essentially, his receptionist, who had no medical training, was giving medical advice....and only when it was "convenient" for her to talk to me. The other person I reached when I called his office was a kid who, by his own admission, was "in the process of going to CNA school." I don't even want to tell you how his office staff was dressed, but let me tell you....you wouldn't think they were medical professionals by looking at them. So no, I don't know if the pellets would work, because I didn't/don't trust the doctor administering them.

And, as a note to any guys out there who are wanting to start hormonal therapy and are trying to find a physician to help them......B-E-W-A-R-E. There are unscrupulous doctors out there who are just out to make a buck on and exploit the trans community for monetary gain and they don't really have your best interests at heart. Talk to them before you decide to go with them and listen to word of mouth. It might also be a good idea to check with the Better Business Bureau and also your state's medical licensing board. Check them out, really, especially if they recommend alternate or untraditional methods of hormone administration. Read the literature about T, first. Know what you're getting into before you start something you're not sure of, and if a doctor makes you uncomfortable with something he/she either says or does, listen to your gut instincts and find someone else.

That little message brought to you by the school of "Been there, done that". :winky:

~Theo~ :bouquet:

[Kätzchen]

Hi everybody,

I spoke with Jet tonight and he wants you to know that he won't have his computer (Popeye - his iMac) until next Thursday and he wants me to tell you guys that he's starting with T-injections on Tuesday. He also says that he's looking forward to coming back online when he gets his computer back. He says he feels fortunate that he found a doctor who's not only gay, but is supportive of his transitioning process. And, he wants to thank you guys for your encouragement and support!

[atomiczombie]

I think there are definite benefits to a person using the gel or cream. I definitely think its the place a lot peopel should start even though they don't. However with that said do relize that the results will be very very very very very slow. I was on the cream and on the highest dose my dr would give at the end for 3 years and there were definite changes but not all the changes I wanted. I passed like 95 % of the time. My voice had lowered but if I got nervouse or excited it betrayed me, I had a scattering of facial hair but very little, and I still had that dreaded monthly vistitor.

I do think i had an increase of acne, especially each time a dose was increased but that doesn't seem to be as much of an issue anymore.

Changes I saw were being a bit calmer, i have a very good crop of inner thigh hair ... which was where I applied it half the time, my voice had lowered, and there were some over all body changes.

What I liked about it most was I got to slowly see how my body reacted to it and build up over time til I got to a point that I felt my body would react favorable to the shots. Which to the most part it has. I use to get the worst pms very emotional and all over the place and now i'm extremely even keel. I have had problems with high iron and red blood count, between phlobotomies and lowering my dose I think I'm at the right level for me.

every 10 days I do .3 ml ... some times I go a little longer or shorter but i don't seem to get the mood swings that other people get. If I go 2 weeks i can tell i need it but still not like others.

Now if you have had some of your inner anatomy remove you may have better results then I.

Just want you to be patient and enjoy the journey even if it doesn't quite go as fast as you would like.

Thanks Coop. Well, I am now broken out on my chin lol.

Having had a hysterectomy and oophorectomy in early 2007, there will be no significant estrogen for the T to fight with in my body. I hope that helps things speed up a little bit for me at least. But the whole point of my being on the gel instead of the shots is to keep my mood on an even keel. That means the changes will be slower, and I accept that. All I want is the momentum, the movement in the right direction.

That said, I had a surgical consultation with Dr. Michael Brownstein in San Francisco last Thursday. He is a very nice man and he said he would be happy to perform my chest reconstruction surgery, but he is booked up until at least September. That gives me time to try to raise the eight grand for it. My folks have set aside $1000.00, and I am applying for a grant from the Jim Collins Foundation. However, I am not expecting miracles. I can also look into a bank loan, however that is highly unlikely given that all my income comes from my monthly disability checks. If any of you all have any advice for me about raising the money for surgery, I would sure appreciate that a lot.

All you guys are awesome. :)

[Jet]

I'm typing from my blackberry
Until I get my computer back.

Question...

I am a contract designer looking to go full time. Since
I.M starting T now I want apply at And be accepted at companies with diversity policies. I'm thinking of submitting

My resume
Portfolio
Summary of experience
And....
A letter to HR addressing my transition under the company
Diversity policy.

Should I include the letter at the. onset of applying?

What bathroom do I use?

Etc.

[Dylan]

I'm typing from my blackberry
Until I get my computer back.

Question...

I am a contract designer looking to go full time. Since
I.M starting T now I want apply at And be accepted at companies with diversity policies. I'm thinking of submitting

My resume
Portfolio
Summary of experience
And....
A letter to HR addressing my transition under the company
Diversity policy.

Should I include the letter at the. onset of applying?

What bathroom do I use?

Etc.

Don't think that just because a company has a diversity policy, they actually *believe* what's IN the policy.

I have interviewed at NUMEROUS companies that have gender identity included in their diversity policies.

I've found, it doesn't matter what the companies' attorneys/HR people have written into their policies to make the company look good and to avoid lawsuits, if your interviewer is ignorant, you're still not going to get a job. And ignorant doesn't have to mean bigoted...when people are afraid of looking stupid or saying the wrong thing, they still won't hire you...no matter how liberal they *feel*.

Personally, I wouldn't say a word about trans issues until WELL into the interview process. If you're read as male at the interview, I wouldn't say a word until someone else brings it up.

But that's just me.


Dylan...would use the men's room

[The Oopster]

Don't think that just because a company has a diversity policy, they actually *believe* what's IN the policy.

I have interviewed at NUMEROUS companies that have gender identity included in their diversity policies.

I've found, it doesn't matter what the companies' attorneys/HR people have written into their policies to make the company look good and to avoid lawsuits, if your interviewer is ignorant, you're still not going to get a job. And ignorant doesn't have to mean bigoted...when people are afraid of looking stupid or saying the wrong thing, they still won't hire you...no matter how liberal they *feel*.

Personally, I wouldn't say a word about trans issues until WELL into the interview process. If you're read as male at the interview, I wouldn't say a word until someone else brings it up.

But that's just me.


Dylan...would use the men's room

I agree with everything Dylan says.

I have had to bring it up mainly because I've been trying to get back into a company i use to work for, so they have to have my old name. I leave it til the end so that hopefully i've already made some type of impression that can out way the other. I use the mens bathroom and I use the name I wish to be addressed by on my resume. Only give out my legal name when it needs to be. Since my name isn't legally changed yet it does need to be.

I do have the advantage that the past two jobs i've worked for they do know me as koop and they are smaller companies so i can be addressed by my chosen name and they'll know who is being asked about.

I feel like the less I make an issue of it the less it will be an issue. Doesn't mean it couldn't be, but sometimes things become a bigger deal when I make them one.

[Jet]

I disagree with responses about how to tackle jobs while
Trnsitioing.

Thnks for your input.

[weatherboi]

i would wait till you have been interviewed and almost hired...no sense in jinxing your chances at a good job...you may want to go as far as getting some legal advice...using the men's restroom may be your best bet...go ahead and set a precedence for yourself. good luck

Grant


I'm typing from my blackberry
Until I get my computer back.

Question...

I am a contract designer looking to go full time. Since
I.M starting T now I want apply at And be accepted at companies with diversity policies. I'm thinking of submitting

My resume
Portfolio
Summary of experience
And....
A letter to HR addressing my transition under the company
Diversity policy.

Should I include the letter at the. onset of applying?

What bathroom do I use?

Etc.

[Dylan]

I disagree with responses about how to tackle jobs while
Trnsitioing.

Thnks for your input.

Jet,

Can I ask where you live? What state?

Employment is the toughest issue for transfolks. The gender identity clause in many places is merely lip service.

I seriously would NOT come out as trans at an interview. I've done it, and I won't do it again.

If you come out at an interview, and you don't get hired, there's nothing you can do about it.

If you ensure you have the job first, and they fire you when you come out, you will be able to cover your ass better.

Since deciding to transition, I have been an many job interviews (after losing my job the day after coming out as trans).

Before I applied anywhere, though, I would look into what my city, county, and state have to say about gender identity, so I know what companies are 'supposed to' abide by.


Dylan

[Thinker]

I'm typing from my blackberry
Until I get my computer back.

Question...

I am a contract designer looking to go full time. Since
I.M starting T now I want apply at And be accepted at companies with diversity policies. I'm thinking of submitting

My resume
Portfolio
Summary of experience
And....
A letter to HR addressing my transition under the company
Diversity policy.

Should I include the letter at the. onset of applying?

What bathroom do I use?

Etc.

First off......and this is just *me*......I wouldn't put myself under the stress of applying for a new job at the same time I'm beginning my medical transition.......unless, of course, you absolutely have no choice.

Secondly, I think you need to go about the process in the way that feels best and most right *to you*. Personally, I would not fool with HR until I had to......certainly not prior to even securing an interview.

I think there are a number of correct ways to go about this; you have to find the way that feels most right for you.

And I'd use the men's room. If you are introducing yourself as Parker and presenting yourself as the man you are, then the men's room is the only option.

[Jet]

I would to talk with HR people
And legal.

If I would get hired tomorrow I wouldn't pass. They would see the transitiopn process. This is the reason I feel In forming them at the onset is important. I met an FTM from turner broadcast who is in transit. HR there issued a. Memo to fellow workers about his transition and that they were to be respectful and supportive.

[Blade]

I would to talk with HR people
And legal.

If I would get hired tomorrow I wouldn't pass. They would see the transitiopn process. This is the reason I feel In forming them at the onset is important. I met an FTM from turner broadcast who is in transit. HR there issued a. Memo to fellow workers about his transition and that they were to be respectful and supportive.

That's cool, that should be a federal law

[The Oopster]

I disagree with responses about how to tackle jobs while
Trnsitioing.

Thnks for your input.

Jet,

Can I ask where you live? What state?

Employment is the toughest issue for transfolks. The gender identity clause in many places is merely lip service.

I seriously would NOT come out as trans at an interview. I've done it, and I won't do it again.

If you come out at an interview, and you don't get hired, there's nothing you can do about it.

If you ensure you have the job first, and they fire you when you come out, you will be able to cover your ass better.

Since deciding to transition, I have been an many job interviews (after losing my job the day after coming out as trans).

Before I applied anywhere, though, I would look into what my city, county, and state have to say about gender identity, so I know what companies are 'supposed to' abide by.


Dylan

First off......and this is just *me*......I wouldn't put myself under the stress of applying for a new job at the same time I'm beginning my medical transition.......unless, of course, you absolutely have no choice.

Secondly, I think you need to go about the process in the way that feels best and most right *to you*. Personally, I would not fool with HR until I had to......certainly not prior to even securing an interview.

I think there are a number of correct ways to go about this; you have to find the way that feels most right for you.

And I'd use the men's room. If you are introducing yourself as Parker and presenting yourself as the man you are, then the men's room is the only option.

I agree with thinker and Dylan that there are lots of things that go into it, and ultimately it is what you are comfortable with.

I know for me, I am speaking from my experience not from what I "think." My strategy has changed over time.

The job I currently have I've never really addressed the issue. I'm a courrier and seldom in the office. At first they called me she and over the past year without me even saying he or anything they call me he and the one that has the most troubles I'll catch him correcting himself. Since I'm not in the office, it just wasn't worth investing energy into it. If they called me she to a customer the customer just looked at them crazy. I deliver to a lot of the studio lots and other businesses including government agencies where I have to present my government id which has my birth name and gender on it. Despite that I am still 99.99% of the time he'd. If someone says something about the name I just make a joke about it. My work ID has my chosen name and actually more often that is commented on since it's original and my first name is the first part of my last name. Again I just make a joke about it. That my parents wanted to keep things simple. If I feel the there is a vested relationship then i may address the issue but on the most part the job I currently have I'm lucky if I seem the same people twice in one week for more then a couple minutes so it's just not worth making a big deal. I've learned that by making a big deal about it and it's just not worth it, for someone I don't know that i may not see again.

The job I had before this which I really was in the beginning of transition and did a lot of my transition during it. I applied under my chosen name didn't bring up the issue but one of my bosses was intuitive and sensitive to the issue and in the first week approached me and how I wanted to be addressed. Made sure that all the employess called me he. Again it was a service job and some of the customers still perceived me as she. There were a few that if appropriate I would bring it up in passing conversation but again it just wasn't worth it.

More recently I've been applying for an old company i use to work for and the more comfortable interviews have been the ones where I've addressed it at the end. Still haven't gotten a job with them and in my head it's hard not to think that it's partly because of being trans, they just may not want to deal with possible issues that could arise, but there is no way of knowing that, it honestly could be something else.

If i end up looking for jobs with other companies I won't address it til it needs to be and only if it needs to be.

Again I've gotten to this point by trial and errror and what works best for me. One thing that helped me was by sending out different types of coverletters and resumes to different perspective employers and going with whatever in the end got the best results.

I have work lapses in my employment history also, because of physical disability, and in that i wanted to be honest about it at first also, but have found that anything like that is best to avoid until i get the interview and am in the office where I'm able to make a legitimate impression versus a preceived impression.

Again ultimately you have to deal with it in your own way and chances are it is a process that will develope through your own trial and error.

[Dylan]

I know for me, I am speaking from my experience not from what I "think."

My strategy has changed over time.

Again I've gotten to this point by trial and errror and what works best for me.


Yeah, my approach has changed greatly over time. I finally ended up starting my own business

I've learned (again, in my own experience) that many 'diversity' policies (including Austin's city 'diversity' policy) are merely lip service to make the company look good. ALL of the interviewers I've had since researching companies' diversity policies have been wonderful about gay issues, but completely ignorant and fearful of trans issues.

I also agree with Thinker that ya' gotta do what ya' gotta do, and I MORE than agree that I (personally) wouldn't interview for jobs during transition unless I absolutely had to.

My thoughts on this today are COMPLETELY, 100% different than they were years ago


Dylan

[TenderKnight]

I guess I was pretty lucky to get a job at where I work now.. At the interview, I told them my prefered pronouns, the name I would be changing to legally, and that I would be starting hormones.. I am lucky to live and work in a very diverse and queer friendly area with managers that may not *get* it, but have been exposed to trans people and were cool with taking me for who I was and on my work history and not my gender..

Not everyone is that lucky or CAN be that open with an employer. If I were still living in the South, I doubt very much if I could have gotten the job I have now and transitioned while working.. Thankfully, I was and am that lucky.. The customers have seen me transition and have asked questions, some are just confused and think they pegged me as female by mistake. I get to educate others on transgender issues and I have tried to invite a more open and welcoming attitude to those along the gender spectrum..

This is just my experience, like I said, I kinda lucked out in some ways. I would never suggest that anyone put themselves in danger by transtioning on the job, but it can work out. Just my .2 on the subject :)

-Tony

[The Oopster]

One thing you can do is practice.

Apply for jobs that you are qualified for but not necessarily interested in and try out different approaches to find out what is comfortable for you. Even with that said I may go into an interview with one intention and after in there for a few minutes totally change my game plan.

If i'm really interested in one particular company, unless there is a immediate urgency like the job posting is going to be closed tomorrow I won't apply for it first, i'll warm up with other options. If I can get an interview with someone else first bonus, practice time.

I use to especially do this with temp agencies. A lot of the tests they have are the same. I'd go to the temp agencies I was least interested in first take the tests a few times then go to the ones I was really interested in and score 100's. Sometimes fate would throw me a surprise and the one i wasn't interested in would be the one that ended up being the gold mine

[Thinker]

I met an FTM from turner broadcast who is in transit. HR there issued a. Memo to fellow workers about his transition and that they were to be respectful and supportive.

Sure. And I would hope that would be the case. BUT.

That is very different from *applying* for jobs......in the "cold calling" sense. My position about leaving HR out of it has to do with applying.....not dealing with someone who already has a job.

Sorry for any confusion there...

[Thinker]

One thing you can do is practice.

Apply for jobs that you are qualified for but not necessarily interested in and try out different approaches to find out what is comfortable for you. Even with that said I may go into an interview with one intention and after in there for a few minutes totally change my game plan.

Outstanding advice.

[Jet]

I wouldn't come out at an interview.