Prince Charming? Pfft!

[Allison W]

Originally Posted by Bit

About finding someone who is compatible, it helps a lot to understand personality types. Once you learn to understand the different ways people process information and make decisions, you can also understand what goes wrong in so many relationships... it really IS communication more often than not.

http://www.humanmetrics.com/cgi-win/jtypes2.asp

Hrm. According to the dating-and-mating guides, I have a problem. I'm attracted to physical power/protectiveness and courage (characteristic of Artisans), decisive judgment (apparently Artisans are not Js), a lack of strong displays of emotion (characteristic of Rationals), reliable authoritarianism in the relationship (potentially characteristic of Guardians and conspicuously not of Artisans or Rationals), and an appreciation of defined, divided roles (Guardians again).

Perhaps I need a Guardian (masculine manifestation) with an Artisan (masculine manifestation) multiclass.

[Gemme]

Life is like my job. At my job, I have set procedures and tasks that must be completed at varying intervals. However, there are tons of widgets (aka customers) that get tossed into the mix. They can help me complete my tasks and procedures or they can be demanding, whiny babies and take more from me than I would really rather give.

You can have that outline that was mentioned earlier. That's your tasks...your day to day procedures and the things you need to do to live YOUR life and keep it going in a forward motion. The people that come into your life (whether they are potential partners are not) are going to affect how you carry yourself through life and what you do. You'll grow, change your mind about a thousand times, and eventually settle into yourself.

I think it's good to have a mental list of the traits you like in a partner. I think it's also healthy to have a mental list of the traits you do NOT like in a partner as well as what things are absolute deal breakers. That will help guide you but the rest is only partially up to you, whether you believe in a higher power or the power of destiny and the Fates. You get to choose the path you walk, but the path will end where it will end, no matter of how you got there.

A lot of folks have said pretty much all that I really wanted to say to you. More than anything, I guess I'd say BREATHE. It feels to me as if you want to rush, rush, rush and get things done, as if you have a checkoff list for your life. That's a stroke or heart attack waiting to happen.

[NJFemmie]

When I was in my early 20's - I had a master plan. By the time I hit my 30's, I started to realize that this plan may never come to fruition. I'm in my 40's now - and - it never happened. I wanted marriage and I wanted kids, but I wanted the 'right' person to have them with. I gave myself a time limit - and time taught me a valuable lesson. I wasted too much time relying on someone other than myself to make my life happen - and, sometimes the things you want are not the things you need.

Thankfully, I have no regrets. As I look back I realize, I'm actually glad things happened the way they did, and am thankful things turned out differently.

Point is - master plans don't always work. Sometimes, it best when they don't.

[Butterbean]

One thing I've completely figured out about relationships is that I'm just not willing to share my Cherry Toaster Strudel. It is hidden behind the bag of broccolli for good reason.


Some things should be respected.

[Bit]

Originally Posted by fuzzypinkego

I guess I'm a bit old fashioned but I really want to be married before I have a child. I want to be the semi-stay-at-home-mom. My mom raised me at home and I want to do the same for my children.

As far as the personalities go, I;m an ENFP, The Idealist Champion, rare and only found in 2-3% of the population.

I would say that if you find another ENFP--or an INFP--who also wants children and wants to be the breadwinner, then go for it.... but I will also say that if you get romantically interested in anyone right now, it will pay you to do the personality survey with them. If you are like most NFP people, you may be strongly drawn to NTJ people... and there lies heartbreak beyond measure unless you can both come to communicate easily. It is true that opposites attract. It is NOT true that opposites speak the same language.

Originally Posted by Allison W

Hrm. According to the dating-and-mating guides, I have a problem. I'm attracted to physical power/protectiveness and courage (characteristic of Artisans), decisive judgment (apparently Artisans are not Js), a lack of strong displays of emotion (characteristic of Rationals), reliable authoritarianism in the relationship (potentially characteristic of Guardians and conspicuously not of Artisans or Rationals), and an appreciation of defined, divided roles (Guardians again).

Perhaps I need a Guardian (masculine manifestation) with an Artisan (masculine manifestation) multiclass.

I confess, Allison, I don't pay attention to the names of the personality types. I can't remember them easily. *sheepish smile* For me, I have a simple rule--if you are an FP person, look for another FP person; if you are a TJ person, look for another TJ person. The differences between E/I and S/N are not as great as the differences betwen FP and TJ.

In a nutshell, TJs tend to be linear, logical, dayplanner, on-time-is-late type people and FPs tend to be flexible, spontaneous, change-my-mind-in-midstream, deadlines-were-made-to-broken type people. The two have to really work hard at understanding each other--and at not driving each other up the wall.

Btw, from what you described about your preferences, I would think you are looking for someone whose personality type is INTJ.

[Allison W]

Originally Posted by NJFemmie

How about simply going on a date and seeing if things "click".

Just a suggestion ....

Even though I consistently get typed as a feeler (which, I suppose, should say something about how much these personality metrics actually matter), I know enough to understand that my short-term impulses rarely have anything to do with what will make me happy in the long run, and I don't want to get into junk relationships just because I'm lonely and can't control my emotions.

Originally Posted by Bit

I would say that if you find another ENFP--or an INFP--who also wants children and wants to be the breadwinner, then go for it.... but I will also say that if you get romantically interested in anyone right now, it will pay you to do the personality survey with them. If you are like most NFP people, you may be strongly drawn to NTJ people... and there lies heartbreak beyond measure unless you can both come to communicate easily. It is true that opposites attract. It is NOT true that opposites speak the same language.

For all the things it does get right, the personality survey is also seriously flawed, and is based on notions of what action = what motive and "this trait, therefore that trait" associations that don't necessarily hold true. In my case, I've occasionally been placed as a J because I like orderliness and structure, but the problem is that I don't like them because I like to be decisive (which is the assumption); I like them because they free me from having to make decisions.

Originally Posted by Bit

I confess, Allison, I don't pay attention to the names of the personality types. I can't remember them easily. *sheepish smile* For me, I have a simple rule--if you are an FP person, look for another FP person; if you are a TJ person, look for another TJ person. The differences between E/I and S/N are not as great as the differences betwen FP and TJ.

In a nutshell, TJs tend to be linear, logical, dayplanner, on-time-is-late type people and FPs tend to be flexible, spontaneous, change-my-mind-in-midstream, deadlines-were-made-to-broken type people. The two have to really work hard at understanding each other--and at not driving each other up the wall.

Btw, from what you described about your preferences, I would think you are looking for someone whose personality type is INTJ.

Guardian = SJ, Artisan = SP, Idealist = NF (my type, though I go against the grain in many places), Rational = NT. While I'm an INFP, you're right that I like Js; both of the serious relationships I had I ended because my partner wouldn't make decisions and left them to me, resulting in my deciding to walk. I, however, would say I'd lean not towards NTJs but STJs (if with the physical focus of the SP), which would put them in the Guardian category (necessarily masculine manifestation, given the way Guardians allegedly vary the most in behaviour depending upon gender role compared to the other types), not the Rational category. I don't want someone who's no better at controlling their emotions or making decisions than I am. That is the subject of my worst nightmares.

[Bit]

I guess it depends on how you take the test, Allison. You might already know this, but I probably should have mentioned it for everyone. People are supposed to blaze through it, yanno? It's most accurate when you don't think about it, when you just go quickly through and say, this fits better, that fits better, this fits better, etc.

The type inventory isn't meant to assign motives, btw; it's meant to discover how one processes information and makes decisions. It isn't a matter so much what a person likes as what a person sustains... I myself like being organized--LOVE being organized--but I cannot sustain it; I have to work at orderliness and it really IS work for me, because my brain just isn't wired to sustain it; I have other strengths instead.

To the more personal part of your post, I can understand completely the nightmare of being with someone who can never make a decision. I've been there, and it wasn't easy.

What strikes me is that you mention twice "uncontrolled emotions" and I'm not sure I understand that. Most people I know who are NFPs are pretty happy with their emotional life and don't seem to have problems with control, unless they are letting other people define their emotions as wrong or bad somehow... and also, most people I know who are NFPs don't have a lot of trouble making decisions unless they have unrealistic expectations of themselves--you know, that need to be perfect and get it absolutely right so you never make a mistake? But that plagues people of all personality types, I think, not just NFPs.

Anyhow, I'm just sharing my thoughts and I hope you don't feel like I'm putting you on the spot; I don't mean to. I figure you know yourself and you know what you're looking for. *soft smile*

[Allison W]

Originally Posted by Bit

I guess it depends on how you take the test, Allison. You might already know this, but I probably should have mentioned it for everyone. People are supposed to blaze through it, yanno? It's most accurate when you don't think about it, when you just go quickly through and say, this fits better, that fits better, this fits better, etc.

The type inventory isn't meant to assign motives, btw; it's meant to discover how one processes information and makes decisions. It isn't a matter so much what a person likes as what a person sustains... I myself like being organized--LOVE being organized--but I cannot sustain it; I have to work at orderliness and it really IS work for me, because my brain just isn't wired to sustain it; I have other strengths instead.

To the more personal part of your post, I can understand completely the nightmare of being with someone who can never make a decision. I've been there, and it wasn't easy.

What strikes me is that you mention twice "uncontrolled emotions" and I'm not sure I understand that. Most people I know who are NFPs are pretty happy with their emotional life and don't seem to have problems with control, unless they are letting other people define their emotions as wrong or bad somehow... and also, most people I know who are NFPs don't have a lot of trouble making decisions unless they have unrealistic expectations of themselves--you know, that need to be perfect and get it absolutely right so you never make a mistake? But that plagues people of all personality types, I think, not just NFPs.

Anyhow, I'm just sharing my thoughts and I hope you don't feel like I'm putting you on the spot; I don't mean to. I figure you know yourself and you know what you're looking for. *soft smile*

I can't blaze through it. The problem is that it asks many questions for which I honestly have absolutely nothing to say off the top of my head. That, and so many of them are meaningless without context, like asking if you want a fork or a spoon without specifying what you're eating. It may as well be gibberish; I'd rather have a paper test where I can scribble in "I don't have an answer for this question; no, it's not that I don't want to say the answer I'm thinking; I have no opinion, and I'm not making one up for you." And no, I don't make decisions well; very trivial decisions paralyze me on a regular basis.

As far as emotions go, I'm very poor at controlling mine. I also consider feelings a fast track to making short-sighted, terrible decisions. Many descriptions I've heard of the thinking vs. feeling axis, however, have absolutely nothing to do with how a person makes decisions and only what they decide, which is a question of values, not rationality vs. emotionality.

The more I think about it, the more I want to finish my accountancy two-year, because bookkeeping is one of the few situations I've found in which I can stop intuiting, stop feeling, and stop needing to make decisions; it has a very zen quality to it.

[Bit]

It sounds like that's just not the right kind of tool for you then, Allison. That would be really frustrating to be unable to relate to so many of the questions! A few of them leave me saying "eh, next please!" but never very many, so it works pretty well for me. Maybe there is something out there that would work better for you.


About the emotions and decisions, coming out of an abusive childhood left me woefully inadequate at understanding and dealing with my own. I found a lot of help in therapy--which I really needed because of the abuse!--but even more help in assertiveness training classes. Then I was lucky enough to find a workbook that had a really helpful decision-making module. That was 1983; as far as I can remember it was called Choices for Women, but I cannot find it anymore. I remember they had a scenario with Cinderella dumping the lazy Prince and opening a shoe store with the Fairy Godmother, lol... (oh my gosh, a web search on that title mostly brings up abortion clinics today!)


Anyhow, since I cannot find it, I found a web site about decision making. I like this one very much, and this quote about the decision not being judged by the outcome is the same kind of quote that set me free in the Choices workbook.

Originally Posted by Introduction to Decision Making

Good decisions that result in bad outcomes should thus not be cause for guilt or recrimination. If you decide to take the scenic route based on what you know of the road (reasonably safe, not heavily traveled) and your preferences (minimal risk, prefer scenery over early arrival), then your decision is a good one, even though you might happen to get in an accident, or have a flat tire in the middle of nowhere. It is not justified to say, "Well, this was a bad decision."

http://www.virtualsalt.com/crebook5.htm

I think that applies as much to the decisions we might make about choosing partners as it does to anything else, yanno? If we approach a potential partner with our eyes open and knowing what we both need and want in a partner, and they seem to be a perfect fit, if it doesn't work out down the road it isn't that we made a bad decision--we just had the equivalent of a car accident or flat tire. *some of mine were train wrecks, oy!*

I've been thinking about it while I was reading the decision making website, and something occurs to me. Do you think you might be a Highly Sensitive Person? Some of what you describe seems to fit that. Here's a link to learn more. http://www.hsperson.com/

[NJFemmie]

Originally Posted by Allison W

Hrm. According to the dating-and-mating guides, I have a problem. I'm attracted to physical power/protectiveness and courage (characteristic of Artisans), decisive judgment (apparently Artisans are not Js), a lack of strong displays of emotion (characteristic of Rationals), reliable authoritarianism in the relationship (potentially characteristic of Guardians and conspicuously not of Artisans or Rationals), and an appreciation of defined, divided roles (Guardians again).

Perhaps I need a Guardian (masculine manifestation) with an Artisan (masculine manifestation) multiclass.

How about simply going on a date and seeing if things "click".

Just a suggestion ....

[Hack]

I just gotta say, I think this thread is a thing of beauty. A young woman put a thought out there that she is pondering and people responded in a thoughtful, positive, supportive, non-condescending way. How refreshing. Truly.


Jake...who loves it when people share their life experiences and wisdom in an open, honest way.

[FeminineAllure]

I would like to share a few quotes here to think on but first I must say...
If you have a mental list of what you can not live with out...They must be smart for example, very attractive, want to have children soon etc... etc... etc...Make sure you have the same things to offer a potential partner. Become what you are looking for in someone else.

“When we're incomplete, we're always searching for somebody to complete us. When, after a few years or a few months of a relationship, we find that we're still unfulfilled, we blame our partners and take up with somebody more promising. This can go on and on--series polygamy--until we admit that while a partner can add sweet dimensions to our lives, we, each of us, are responsible for our own fulfillment. Nobody else can provide it for us, and to believe otherwise is to delude ourselves dangerously and to program for eventual failure every relationship we enter.”

Tom Robbins quotes

“Well, it seems to me that the best relationships - the ones that last - are frequently the ones that are rooted in friendship. You know, one day you look at the person and you see something more than you did the night before. Like a switch has been flicked somewhere. And the person who was just a friend is... suddenly the only person you can ever imagine yourself with”
Gillian Anderson quotes

“A loving relationship is one in which the loved one is free to be himself -- to laugh with me, but never at me; to cry with me, but never because of me; to love life, to love himself, to love being loved. Such a relationship is based upon freedom and can never grow in a jealous heart.”
Leo F. Buscaglia

[Princess4u]

Originally Posted by FeminineAllure

I would like to share a few quotes here to think on but first I must say...
If you have a mental list of what you can not live with out...They must be smart for example, very attractive, want to have children soon etc... etc... etc...Make sure you have the same things to offer a potential partner. Become what you are looking for in someone else.

“When we're incomplete, we're always searching for somebody to complete us. When, after a few years or a few months of a relationship, we find that we're still unfulfilled, we blame our partners and take up with somebody more promising. This can go on and on--series polygamy--until we admit that while a partner can add sweet dimensions to our lives, we, each of us, are responsible for our own fulfillment. Nobody else can provide it for us, and to believe otherwise is to delude ourselves dangerously and to program for eventual failure every relationship we enter.”

Tom Robbins quotes

“Well, it seems to me that the best relationships - the ones that last - are frequently the ones that are rooted in friendship. You know, one day you look at the person and you see something more than you did the night before. Like a switch has been flicked somewhere. And the person who was just a friend is... suddenly the only person you can ever imagine yourself with”
Gillian Anderson quotes

“A loving relationship is one in which the loved one is free to be himself -- to laugh with me, but never at me; to cry with me, but never because of me; to love life, to love himself, to love being loved. Such a relationship is based upon freedom and can never grow in a jealous heart.”
Leo F. Buscaglia

how very true....its funny how some ppl femme and butch alike..expect a certain package deal...but they dont have what they expect from someone else...I like that BE what you are looking for.....friendship is important...they already love you for YOU...faults and all....

[Princess4u]

OK OK I know my screen name may indicate otherwise..and yes I want to find my prince....but not as in the fairytale...I want my own storybook ending....I think we all want similar things from life and from our partner....and I want to emphasize....PARTNER....because that is what it is all about...sharing, compromise...coming together and forming a life where you feel you are loved and safe from the big bad world....my prince should he ever find me...LOL...should respect me as much as I do him...we work together and not have expectations of what the other should do....do I think all femmes should cook and clean...hell no...do I think all butches or transppl should do the yardwork and take out the trashs....hell no...I think it should be done by both...and I dont mean merrily skipping down the driveway holding hands carrying the trashbag...I mean when it needs to be done...do it...sometimes we get so wrapped up in gender identity..that ppl can sometimes feel lost and not be the PERSON they are....I feel I would be blessed to find my "prince" as much as he would feel blessed to find his "princess in me"...because together we can overcome most anything...i dont know if this makes any sense...perhpas too many breathing treatments going to my head right now LOL>..I love this thread thank you for making it...

[fuzzypinkego]

Originally Posted by Hack

I just gotta say, I think this thread is a thing of beauty. A young woman put a thought out there that she is pondering and people responded in a thoughtful, positive, supportive, non-condescending way. How refreshing. Truly.


Jake...who loves it when people share their life experiences and wisdom in an open, honest way.

I know! I appreciate everyone so much. My life isn't easy, but it's mine and I love it. I love my art, my career, my passions, my friends and my family... it's just that sometimes I wish I had that special person to share it with.

[Legendryder]

I have been single for 6 years now, and haven't even dated anyone in that time. I just can't see doing that right now, I do not have the time to put into the work it takes to make a relationship function. I am a full time student, and a small business owner, so my days are full to the brim with things that are important to me. I really can't say I have missed anything. And besides, I have Bob. With Bob around, you just can't help but be in a good mood.

[NJFemmie]

Originally Posted by Allison W

Even though I consistently get typed as a feeler (which, I suppose, should say something about how much these personality metrics actually matter), I know enough to understand that my short-term impulses rarely have anything to do with what will make me happy in the long run, and I don't want to get into junk relationships just because I'm lonely and can't control my emotions.

Guardian = SJ, Artisan = SP, Idealist = NF (my type, though I go against the grain in many places), Rational = NT. While I'm an INFP, you're right that I like Js; both of the serious relationships I had I ended because my partner wouldn't make decisions and left them to me, resulting in my deciding to walk. I, however, would say I'd lean not towards NTJs but STJs (if with the physical focus of the SP), which would put them in the Guardian category (necessarily masculine manifestation, given the way Guardians allegedly vary the most in behaviour depending upon gender role compared to the other types), not the Rational category. I don't want someone who's no better at controlling their emotions or making decisions than I am. That is the subject of my worst nightmares.

You are over analyzing, and I must add - far too much.
But hey, whatever works for you.

Peace out.

[adorable]

I read this article in Ebony a while back. It really covers everything pretty well without over complicating things. It's the top ten ways to tell if he's the one ~ but it's a pretty universal list ~ I think it works for everyone in any direction.

This is the link to the article:
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...g=content;col1

[Allison W]

Originally Posted by NJFemmie

You are over analyzing, and I must add - far too much.
But hey, whatever works for you.

Peace out.

Analysis is my blessing. It's what keeps me from making the horrible decisions that my parents made before me (and that others around me continue to make, for that matter). Without it, I'd have nothing.

So yes, "over-analyzing" does work for me. It has yet to let me down. Fleeting emotions lead me to make bad decisions often--sometimes catastrophically.