"Butch" and "Femme" - Truly Antiquated Terms or More Marginalization?

[SuperFemme]

Originally Posted by Medusa

There has been some discussion on the "other" site about whether or not the terms "Butch" and "Femme" are "antiquated" terms. Im curious as to what people think about this.
There were some thoughts about how the terms dont feel "accessible" to younger folks, folks of color, etc.


Thoughts?

Is antiquated bad or does it honor our history?

I remember reading Stone Butch Blues for the first time. The tales of being arrested for wearing mens underwear at the club. In my mind it was/is mainstream Lesbians that pushed Butches and Femmes away and continue to do so today. Which gets sticky because we have many Lesbian Id'd folks. It's complicated. I identify as a Lesbian only in the most basic of terms.

I am a Femme. My community exists under the shade of the Butch/Femme umbrella and is compromised of endless genders. I honor them all. In honoring them all I also honor our history and the Butches/Femmes of yesteryear that slowly pushed us out of the shadows.

eta: i prefer to be thought of as "Adele". There may be several thousand other Adeles on the earth but no two of us are the same. Kind of like Butch/Femme. There are so very many of us. No two are the same.

[Jet]

Originally Posted by SuperFemme

Is antiquated bad or does it honor our history?

I remember reading Stone Butch Blues for the first time. The tales of being arrested for wearing mens underwear at the club. In my mind it was/is mainstream Lesbians that pushed Butches and Femmes away and continue to do so today. Which gets sticky because we have many Lesbian Id'd folks. It's complicated. I identify as a Lesbian only in the most basic of terms.

I am a Femme. My community exists under the shade of the Butch/Femme umbrella and is compromised of endless genders. I honor them all. In honoring them all I also honor our history and the Butches/Femmes of yesteryear that slowly pushed us out of the shadows.

Ditto. I think the other site is nitpicking and things like this can get to a point of intolerance—even dislike. But then, what else is new at a site that bans for life as though they stopped oil production, the Dow tumbled and a meteor hit the earth. Geezes, like I care. I'm a butch under the umbrella and even one step further as a guy getting ready to transition in the coming year. For now, butch serves me well as a description of how I ID in practical terms. I'm also old school and I keep things real simple without discourse. And one more thing, I'm attracted to femmes, and the term explains it, pure and simple. Just my .02

[Diva]

I know people get their panties/boxers in a knot over this for some reason.....and that's ok...I do love me some passionate people!

In my own world, I choose to honor whatever label anyone chooses for themselves. Why is that so difficult? Just as this planet and the human race and plants and animals have evolved, so do members of our chosen family.

If "butch/femme" is antiquated, that's ok. **I'M** antiquated!! At the time, "femme" suited me when I first came out (20 years ago this year, btw). And, while "femme" is a pretty accurate description of me, I have evolved since then, too. I'm not sure You really care about all of MY labels... I have a few which are descriptors of who I am.

[Blue_Daddy-O]

Originally Posted by Diva

I know people get their panties/boxers in a knot over this for some reason.....and that's ok...I do love me some passionate people!

In my own world, I choose to honor whatever label anyone chooses for themselves. Why is that so difficult? Just as this planet and the human race and plants and animals have evolved, so do members of our chosen family.

If "butch/femme" is antiquated, that's ok. **I'M** antiquated!! At the time, "femme" suited me when I first came out (20 years ago this year, btw). And, while "femme" is a pretty accurate description of me, I have evolved since then, too. I'm not sure You really care about all of MY labels... I have a few which are descriptors of who I am.

Diva... HAPPY GAY BIRTHDAY ...this is my 20th year of being Gay too!!!

Originally Posted by Isadora

I was rather insulted. As a femme who grew up with these terms being referred to as "antiquated" just thrills me. It smacks of ageism to me. Although I understand and accept that a new generation may not resonate with these terms, to dismiss them as old and tired is disrespectful of those who have lived with these terms for most of our queer lives, well all of My queer life.

Now, if it was worded that we have added to our vocabulary rather then having a new generation of terms that dismiss a whole generation of elderish b/f's, I would have not felt so written off.

As a partner, for going on 22 years, who is a POC, I asked hym what terms hy resonates with and hy said, "I am butch. I do not use other words (stud, aggressive, etc.) because it is not my generation. Accepting new terms is a good thing but not at the expense of dismissing others."

It was also interesting to me that to me it was never a "label" it was an expression of my inner self, a part of who I was growing up as a young femme.

So, I know the discussion was around a video about butch/aggressive/stud id's, what are the new terms for femme? I did not see ONE discussion on this aspect of our descriptors. Or did I miss something (heh, I am an OLD femme, I miss a lot of things!)?

It is interesting to me that both we as elders (over 55) and those who are young (under 30) must deal with the ageism that is inherent in our culture...so the elder are antiquated for our language and the youngers dismissed for theirs...when in reality there is nothing that says we can't celebrate them all.


*looks around for a helping hand down off my soapbox*

Isadora, my helping hand extended as you step down off your soapbox.... well said!

[Isadora]

Originally Posted by Blue_Vegan_Daddy-O

Isadora, my helping hand extended as you step down off your soapbox.... well said!

Thank you!