Dating a Trans Person (FTM)

[violaine]

re: Zorra77's post-
Although I don’t have a problem with this and try to be supportive, I have to acknowledge that this change affects me too as his partner. dealing with raised eyebrows from friends when I refer to my ‘boyfriend’ (which from their perspective definitely requires an explanation) and deal with their lack of understanding; wondering what this means for my own identity (does that make me straight?), etc.





one way to lessen any pressure on yourself, is for him to tell is own journey? i also like what firie wrote!

i've been talking to someone recently, a great and accepting sort of guy- bio, but not about my ex and the process of his transition- though the topic may eventually surface, it's a discussion first between them; i'm pretty sure raised eyebrows won't be an issue, but if i see any, i'll get over it- or he will.

[Jet]

Originally Posted by violaine

re: Zorra77's post-
Although I don’t have a problem with this and try to be supportive, I have to acknowledge that this change affects me too as his partner. dealing with raised eyebrows from friends when I refer to my ‘boyfriend’ (which from their perspective definitely requires an explanation) and deal with their lack of understanding; wondering what this means for my own identity (does that make me straight?), etc.





one way to lessen any pressure on yourself, is for him to tell is own journey? i also like what firie wrote!

i've been talking to someone recently, a great and accepting sort of guy- bio, but not about my ex and the process of his transition- though the topic may eventually surface, it's a discussion first between them; i'm pretty sure raised eyebrows won't be an issue, but if i see any, i'll get over it- or he will.

you go girl.
It's an ever precarious journey though, is it not?

[WingsOnFire]

I love this thread and all the responses. Damon knows I was a little unsure about the transition to being with a transgendered person when we met. However I was madly in love with him and didnt care how he identified. "He" was who I wanted to be with. I slipped in the beginning with calling him "he". He was very understanding and worked with me. I have friends who I care very much for that know. The rest I really dont give a damn. I lost many lesbian friends who just judged me for my relationship. In the end I realized if they couldnt be happy for me then I didnt need them. I made the right choice.

I feel completely natural talking about my "boyfriend" with my family and friends. I dont explain. I used to feel like I needed to explain and quite frankly those conversations with Damon were sometimes painful because I felt I needed to explain and he wanted to know why? I guess then it was wanting to be accepted. I realized quickly that I could care less if someone accepted me or not. If they didnt I just walked away.

I like the advice of a SOFFA yahoo group. I didnt even think of that. LOL I have forgotten the questions now after reading such wonderful responses... Good luck with your relationship and remember, communication is the key.

Becca

[Ursy]

Originally Posted by Jet

you go girl.
It's an ever precarious journey though, is it not?

I love that - precarious journey (has a poetic ring to it)... and in some ways it is - but oh what a privileged journey it is as well. Not many people can say they've experienced what us partners of trans* people have - by this I mean witnessing a person "come into being" (I don't quite know how to put it) but it's kind of breathtaking. I wouldn't swap it for anything in the world, to see the one you love "growing into" the person he always was but who the world previously couldn't see.

Yep, it's difficult sometimes, and you'll meet up with ignorance (of all sorts: well-meaning, clueless and downright malicious) too - but the alternative - to have him trapped in an existence that isn't his own... that denies him his authenticity - that's the unthinkable part.

It's like that saying - I forget how it goes exactly but something like "nothing worth having comes easy".

Bleh, I can wax lyrical sometimes. But it's only because it's one of the few things I'm actually passionate about.

[Zora77]

I keep coming back to his thread and reading through your responses that all are tremendously helpful. I assume that embarking on this journey will come in many stages and facets that differ greatly from person to person. There is one that I currently am chewing on and not too much has been said about it (maybe because most of the trans folks and their partners who did respond here are on T).

I have a few questions for those of you whose partner is pre-T and pre-op: Does he pass? Are you being perceived as a female/male couple? If not, how do you deal with the issue of being perceived as two women? And how does it impact how you perceive your partner and yourself? Does it?

For some reason this is something that I do think about at this point because R. does not pass. In appearance and body language he is less ‘masculine’ than some female identified butches I have dated and he is more emotional and sensitive as well – even more than me. In my conversations with friends I run into surprised reactions and disbelief (because they all met him as a woman). And when I’m honest there is this part of me that has doubts and I feel really bad and guilty for having these thoughts.

It would be lovely if some if you could share more about transitioning without T and surgeries. How do you deal with the "but he does not look like a guy" response?

This really challenges me - but ultimately I think it's a good thing.

Thanks.

[firie]

I am going to answer you within your quote, so I can address your challenges here specifically. And I know you are calling for some advice from those partners who are with guys who are pre-T and pre-op, so I will speak to my experiences both pre-T with Dylan, because he is "pre-op," since no one has answered you on this.

Originally Posted by Zora77

I keep coming back to his thread and reading through your responses that all are tremendously helpful. I assume that embarking on this journey will come in many stages and facets that differ greatly from person to person. There is one that I currently am chewing on and not too much has been said about it (maybe because most of the trans folks and their partners who did respond here are on T).

Very true, this experience is going to be tremendously individualized.

I have a few questions for those of you whose partner is pre-T and pre-op: Does he pass? Are you being perceived as a female/male couple? If not, how do you deal with the issue of being perceived as two women? And how does it impact how you perceive your partner and yourself? Does it?

Even pre-T, Dylan sometimes passed and sometimes didn't. Even now, Dylan sometimes passes and sometimes does not. This is a big guessing game for us honestly. We recently got pulled over by a cop because we did not know our taillight was out. She called Dylan "sir." This is not always the case, and it is random and who knows. Sometimes in queer space, Dylan gets "she-d" more than he gets "he-d." This is a phenomenon we have yet to figure out.

For some reason this is something that I do think about at this point because R. does not pass. In appearance and body language he is less ‘masculine’ than some female identified butches I have dated and he is more emotional and sensitive as well – even more than me. In my conversations with friends I run into surprised reactions and disbelief (because they all met him as a woman). And when I’m honest there is this part of me that has doubts and I feel really bad and guilty for having these thoughts.

Let me ask you something if you don't mind, what does the shock and disbelief look like? How does that occur? Either way, it seems rude that this would be a friend's response to you. I don't get it, and I find it problematic, and maybe I've been with Dylan long enough that I don't have much patience for a response like that--shock and disbelief. This is what I was driving at in my initial post, as I think this is a tough ground to navigate and one that folks feel they might have the right to prod you in, that might feel challenging at the very least and downright ghastly uncomfortable at the very worst. You are put into the dilemma of being honest and truthful to your partner, not betraying him in his identity and yet at the same time balancing your friends and their transphobia. And before anyone says, oh come on, now, firie, that isn't entirely transphobic, I would say, well, yes, it absolutely is. How dare they not know enough about the trans community to not get it. How dare they question him or you in that, when they should be excited, happy, and joyful with you in the fact that he is finding and expressing himself. Period. Call me a bitch about that, but there is no excuse for ignorance.

I am also wondering if they do this with R. present? My guess is no. So it is all on you in those situations to handle such inquiry, which is again problematic to me. I don't have much patience, honestly, with people who want to poke and prod. I expect, if not demand, absolute understanding and no personal pushing of boundaries. There are a mountain of books, and people can read them. You are not a personal library for people's freakish curiosities.

I would also say that people's perceptions of Dylan and I do not change the way that Dylan and I are, who we are together. I went into our relationship, however, knowing Dylan was out and a guy. He's been male since his birth, regardless of what society deems him to be. I know that with him, feel that with him, and love that about him. And he is my guy, through and through, regardless of the ignorance, however benign or malicious, of those out there viewing us a certain way. I can speak from this vantage point a bit more easily perhaps because I do not identify as lesbian. I can't imagine what it must be like for out lesbians who must constantly account for their identity in this regard. Tiresome, absolutely tiresome. This isn't his fault or theirs however. It's the person doing all the questioning, the one with all the shock and disbelief. That person is the one who should be doing a little exercise in understanding basic measures of respect.

It would be lovely if some if you could share more about transitioning without T and surgeries. How do you deal with the "but he does not look like a guy" response?

I would ask, "What does a guy look like to you?" and "why do you care?" or maybe "well, he is a guy." I might be so smacked with WTF that I'd have to slam a shot of something, or I don't know, just walk off. I have always been floored by some of the comments made, because I think this is more about the person asking the questions than it is about you or your partner. Would you do that? Would you say this to a friend who identified their partner as male to you after he had been introduced female? Would you go there?

This really challenges me - but ultimately I think it's a good thing.

It's going to be challenging, and it can come from all corners of your life, again, the point I was making with my original post to you. There is some sort of pass that people assume they have to ask you all sorts of questions. I put myself in your shoes here, and well, it would kinda hurt that my partners validity and being were being challenged on appearances or some notion of what a guy is supposed to look like. Why do they care? Maybe a response is, to those questions, "why is this even important to you?"

Thanks.

Maybe I have grown too reluctant to entertain people's notions of "trans" because it has been so shocking to me with respect to the audacity out there.

[Zora77]

Originally Posted by firie

I am going to answer you within your quote, so I can address your challenges here specifically. And I know you are calling for some advice from those partners who are with guys who are pre-T and pre-op, so I will speak to my experiences both pre-T with Dylan, because he is "pre-op," since no one has answered you on this.



Maybe I have grown too reluctant to entertain people's notions of "trans" because it has been so shocking to me with respect to the audacity out there.

Thank you Firie for your response! I totally get where you are coming from and admire your confident and passionate stance. Unfortunately I feel that I’m not quite there yet and it would feel hypocritical for me to get angry at people’s responses because on some level, as much as this upsets me, I can relate.

Although I do not identify as a lesbian, I did also not go into this relationship with the awareness that R. is a man. Although my response was not ‘shock and disbelief’, I was a little puzzled. I consider myself a very open-minded person and in discussions about people choosing to transition, I’m always the one who adamantly challenges people who do react with some form of ignorance. Maybe that’s why it is so hard for me now to be confronted with my own as this is no longer an abstract discussion for me.

The questions you brought up that I need to think about are “what does a guy look like to you and why do you care?” I feel my own perceptions or definitions of ‘male’ and ‘female’ are being challenged and so is my open mind, which feels rather narrow these days

[firie]

Originally Posted by Zora77

Thank you Firie for your response! I totally get where you are coming from and admire your confident and passionate stance. Unfortunately I feel that I’m not quite there yet and it would feel hypocritical for me to get angry at people’s responses because on some level, as much as this upsets me, I can relate.

Although I do not identify as a lesbian, I did also not go into this relationship with the awareness that R. is a man. Although my response was not ‘shock and disbelief’, I was a little puzzled. I consider myself a very open-minded person and in discussions about people choosing to transition, I’m always the one who adamantly challenges people who do react with some form of ignorance. Maybe that’s why it is so hard for me now to be confronted with my own as this is no longer an abstract discussion for me.

The questions you brought up that I need to think about are “what does a guy look like to you and why do you care?” I feel my own perceptions or definitions of ‘male’ and ‘female’ are being challenged and so is my open mind, which feels rather narrow these days

I'm on my phone, so can't post much of response, but wanted to clarify that asking folks to think about their response to your partner is not "angry" in my opinion. Its asking for respect and understanding in my opinion. My issue here is why wouldn't your friends instead offer support over questioning an adult and his identity? He is who he says he is, and that should be the basis of one's response in my opinion. Hopefully that makes sense.

[Ursy]

Originally Posted by Zora77

Although I do not identify as a lesbian, I did also not go into this relationship with the awareness that R. is a man. Although my response was not ‘shock and disbelief’, I was a little puzzled.

That was the same position I was in.

I think, for me, the biggest worry was the knowledge that things would change and I didn't know *how* that would affect our relationship, I just knew it was going to (a change as big as this, how could it not?).

I think it's natural (and necessary) that we as partners ask ourselves how this will affect us, but sometimes we can be made to feel selfish if we do voice these concerns.

I also worried a lot about how the world was going to receive my sweetie. I knew it wasn't going to always be kind, compassionate and understanding - and I knew that I wasn't always going to be present as a buffer - which is kinda ridiculous as I'm 5 feet tall and look like a Sunday school teacher but by golly when someone looked sideways at my sweetie during those awful "in-between-days", even if they were just being curious, I would stare them down, like "you want to start anything, you have to go through me first"

Kris once said I was like a vicious attack kitty when in this mode. Lol

[Words]

Originally Posted by firie

Maybe I have grown too reluctant to entertain people's notions of "trans" because it has been so shocking to me with respect to the audacity out there.

I so hear you on this one.

[julieisafemme]

Originally Posted by Zora77

I keep coming back to his thread and reading through your responses that all are tremendously helpful. I assume that embarking on this journey will come in many stages and facets that differ greatly from person to person. There is one that I currently am chewing on and not too much has been said about it (maybe because most of the trans folks and their partners who did respond here are on T).

I have a few questions for those of you whose partner is pre-T and pre-op: Does he pass? Are you being perceived as a female/male couple? If not, how do you deal with the issue of being perceived as two women? And how does it impact how you perceive your partner and yourself? Does it?

For some reason this is something that I do think about at this point because R. does not pass. In appearance and body language he is less ‘masculine’ than some female identified butches I have dated and he is more emotional and sensitive as well – even more than me. In my conversations with friends I run into surprised reactions and disbelief (because they all met him as a woman). And when I’m honest there is this part of me that has doubts and I feel really bad and guilty for having these thoughts.

It would be lovely if some if you could share more about transitioning without T and surgeries. How do you deal with the "but he does not look like a guy" response?

This really challenges me - but ultimately I think it's a good thing.

Thanks.

Though my partner has had surgery and been on T for two years there are still times when he does not pass. It varies wildly as to when this happens. I don't see it as being viewed as two women. I see it as being viewed as queer, which is ok with me. I correct the person's incorrect gendering of my partner and move on. It has no impact at all in how I perceive myself or my partner.

Don't feel guilty for having any thoughts or questions. I think that is fine and you are entitled to that.

The community of transmen and transwomen is so diverse in how people feel about their gender and how they present it.

I agree with Firie in that it is not being mean or angry to clarify questions with questions back or to simply say "he is he" and leave it at that. I have found that the less I explain the better.